Tards Balancing on Exercise Balls

[Playboy]

I think if God was going to weed out the stupid, he'd probably start with the average bodybuilder. In all seriousness, there are always exceptions, but if there was a way to measure intellect per sport(not that bodybuilding is a sport but for the sake of illustration) bodybuilders would be way down there. And by the way, except for the pro's, I'm as much of a bodybuilder as the rest of you.

Why are you so full of hatred toward bodybuilders? This is a bodybuilding board. If you don't like it, leave. We don't care for some twig in a gym squatting on a ball. Women use these balls for Christ sake. Do not compare yourself as a bodybuilder like us because by your past posts and tone you are not a bodybuilder by far. Don't confuse fitness for bodybuilding. Bodybuilders do not squat on balls, buddy. Have you ever stepped on a stage? Have you ever dieted down for a show? Posing routing? Thank you. Do us a favor and just leave. You're in way over your head here.

PB


PB

[Mr. Intenseone]

It doesnt halp Athletic Performance one bit.

Swiss Ball Use and Abuse:  Q&A with Charles Poliquin

Q: You've written some articles in the past about the use of Swiss balls. Today it seems like stability balls and their ilk are being abused and overused. Have your feelings changed about Swiss balls?

A: The problem with Swiss balls is that people started doing things with them that their bodies weren't designed to do! For example, squatting on the Swiss ball is completely moronic. It's a party trick.

 
 

One of the problems is that you have to squat bowlegged. There's actually one guy in the industry who was showing off by doing it at a seminar. He jumped off and blew his ACL! What happens is that you put the ligament in a bad stretch from squatting bowlegged.

Now, if you use the Swiss ball to modify the strength curve like I've done with some arm training movements, I think that's fine.

 
 

With Poliquin's lean-away eccentric curls, you sit with your back and triceps resting against the side of a Swiss ball. Perform the concentric (lifting) range of a seated dumbbell curl. Once you curl the dumbbells to the top, raise your hips so that your thighs are parallel to the floor. Your upper body should then be literally on top of the ball. Lower the dumbbells down and away from you. Lower the hips and repeat until you hit your target number of reps.

Also, Swiss balls are good for certain core exercises. The problem is when people say that Swiss balls cure cancer and get the IRS off your back. There are people out there making outrageous claims.

Recent research has shown that Swiss ball training for your core works only for six weeks (which is what I've been saying since '94). You'll get more abdominal activation from the squat and deadlift than any Swiss ball exercise, no matter how difficult. So if you're an untrained person, you can do the Swiss ball, but after six weeks you'll top out on the gains you'll get.

About 70% of Swiss ball exercises are worthless. It's just one of those things where people are taking an idea too far. There's some value to it, but it's not a cure-all.

Most personal trainers and strength coaches just don't know how to get people strong. I remember talking to this one trainer who uses all these stability gizmos. I asked him why he used all that shit and he said, "I'm not good, so I have to do these weird things so people will come to see me."

I remember seeing him make this post-menopausal woman do one-hand split jerks with a fat dumbbell. Now, Adam Nelson is one of the best shot-putters in the world and I don't make him do that! The risks are way too high.

The problem with using Duradisks and similar devices is that you have to use loads that are so insignificant that none of the prime movers really get activated. So if a woman can overhead press a 25-pound dumbbell, she'll only be able to use an eight pounder while performing this circus act on a stability device. She just won't be overloading her muscles.

 

I call it "entertainment training," not strength training. And any time I see that horseshit, I want to kick the personal trainer in the head with a pair of steal-toe construction boots.

And the BOSU ball? The BOSU ball is a Swiss ball for morons! Again, when you stand on it you're always bowlegged. Why do you want to get into a position that's not good for your knees and ankles? What about doing it on one foot? So what, then you have to reduce the load!

 

One of the dumbest things I see is the lying dumbbell press on a Swiss Ball using only one arm. The most a 180 pound guy will be able to use is about 45 pounds. Why? Because if you use more, you're going to flip over. Now, the same guy can use much more than 45 pounds to do regular flat dumbbell presses. So what's the point?

"Oh, it activates the core." Yeah, and to what degree? All you're doing is firing some stabilizers just to control yourself so you don't flip over, but you're not overloading the pressing muscles. So again, this is just entertainment training. It's circus training and it doesn't do anything!

Now, these devices do work well... in marketing terms. It's like

First thing I want to say is that I respect Poliquin alot, second thing is I have NEVER recommended that anyone stands on a swiss ball and have always said that pic of that idiot squating on a swiss ball...the trainer should be shot and so should the trainee for letting him. Another thing I have ALWAYS said there are wrong ways of training but a million right ways, meaning no one routien is perfect what works for one might not be the right one for the other. I agree with Poliquin on most things but not all, he says that you can stimulate core more with squats and for the most part I agree, exept with BEGINNERS who don't know how to squat and can easily injure themselves!

I do use swiss balls for my general public (mostly women) for light presses and abdominal work, but for my athletes, I rarely use them exept for balance and core CONTROL not strength. Stability balls have there place in fitness and athletics but obviously not for everything!!

[Top Dog]

Impossible to be over your head around here.

[Mike]

It doesnt halp Athletic Performance one bit.

Swiss Ball Use and Abuse:  Q&A with Charles Poliquin

Q: You've written some articles in the past about the use of Swiss balls. Today it seems like stability balls and their ilk are being abused and overused. Have your feelings changed about Swiss balls?

A: The problem with Swiss balls is that people started doing things with them that their bodies weren't designed to do! For example, squatting on the Swiss ball is completely moronic. It's a party trick.

 
 

One of the problems is that you have to squat bowlegged. There's actually one guy in the industry who was showing off by doing it at a seminar. He jumped off and blew his ACL! What happens is that you put the ligament in a bad stretch from squatting bowlegged.

Now, if you use the Swiss ball to modify the strength curve like I've done with some arm training movements, I think that's fine.

 
 

With Poliquin's lean-away eccentric curls, you sit with your back and triceps resting against the side of a Swiss ball. Perform the concentric (lifting) range of a seated dumbbell curl. Once you curl the dumbbells to the top, raise your hips so that your thighs are parallel to the floor. Your upper body should then be literally on top of the ball. Lower the dumbbells down and away from you. Lower the hips and repeat until you hit your target number of reps.

Also, Swiss balls are good for certain core exercises. The problem is when people say that Swiss balls cure cancer and get the IRS off your back. There are people out there making outrageous claims.

Recent research has shown that Swiss ball training for your core works only for six weeks (which is what I've been saying since '94). You'll get more abdominal activation from the squat and deadlift than any Swiss ball exercise, no matter how difficult. So if you're an untrained person, you can do the Swiss ball, but after six weeks you'll top out on the gains you'll get.

About 70% of Swiss ball exercises are worthless. It's just one of those things where people are taking an idea too far. There's some value to it, but it's not a cure-all.

Most personal trainers and strength coaches just don't know how to get people strong. I remember talking to this one trainer who uses all these stability gizmos. I asked him why he used all that shit and he said, "I'm not good, so I have to do these weird things so people will come to see me."

I remember seeing him make this post-menopausal woman do one-hand split jerks with a fat dumbbell. Now, Adam Nelson is one of the best shot-putters in the world and I don't make him do that! The risks are way too high.

The problem with using Duradisks and similar devices is that you have to use loads that are so insignificant that none of the prime movers really get activated. So if a woman can overhead press a 25-pound dumbbell, she'll only be able to use an eight pounder while performing this circus act on a stability device. She just won't be overloading her muscles.

 

I call it "entertainment training," not strength training. And any time I see that horseshit, I want to kick the personal trainer in the head with a pair of steal-toe construction boots.

And the BOSU ball? The BOSU ball is a Swiss ball for morons! Again, when you stand on it you're always bowlegged. Why do you want to get into a position that's not good for your knees and ankles? What about doing it on one foot? So what, then you have to reduce the load!

 

One of the dumbest things I see is the lying dumbbell press on a Swiss Ball using only one arm. The most a 180 pound guy will be able to use is about 45 pounds. Why? Because if you use more, you're going to flip over. Now, the same guy can use much more than 45 pounds to do regular flat dumbbell presses. So what's the point?

"Oh, it activates the core." Yeah, and to what degree? All you're doing is firing some stabilizers just to control yourself so you don't flip over, but you're not overloading the pressing muscles. So again, this is just entertainment training. It's circus training and it doesn't do anything!

Now, these devices do work well... in marketing terms. It's like

http://www.michaelboyle.biz/forum/viewtopic.php?t=607&highlight=stability+ball

everything in moderation...

[Croatch]

Oh brother, sometimes I wonder why people even belong to a gym?  If you're going to lift, for whatever reason, going extremely light ain't going to do shit.  Doing some Cobra Commando move isn't going to do more than your basic lifts.  Simply look at the people doing them, and you'll see what results you get.
My favorite person at the gym is the guy who says,
I want to work my core.
Translation: I don't want to lift anything too heavy cause I'm scared my "monster genes" will allow me to gain too much muscle.

I'm not trying to get real big.
Translation: My genetics and work ethic would never allow me to gain more than 7lbs of lean mass.

I'm working on the "mind muscle" connection.
Translation: I increased the amount of gh and gear I ingest, while decreasing the intensity of my workouts.

[Playboy]

Oh brother, sometimes I wonder why people even belong to a gym?  If you're going to lift, for whatever reason, going extremely light ain't going to do shit.  Doing some Cobra Commando move isn't going to do more than your basic lifts.  Simply look at the people doing them, and you'll see what results you get.
My favorite person at the gym is the guy who says,
I want to work my core.
Translation: I don't want to lift anything too heavy cause I'm scared my "monster genes" will allow me to gain too much muscle.

I'm not trying to get real big.
Translation: My genetics and work ethic would never allow me to gain more than 7lbs of lean mass.

I'm working on the "mind muscle" connection.
Translation: I increased the amount of gh and gear I ingest, while decreasing the intensity of my workouts.

Well put.

PB

[Mr. Intenseone]

http://www.michaelboyle.biz/forum/viewtopic.php?t=607&highlight=stability+ball

everything in moderation...

I have been following Mike Boyles philosophy for years and alot of my training is based on his therories and methods and then I just modify it into my own training, it's not bodybuilding training it's all based on athletic protocal.......he's a brilliant trainer and if you ever get the opportunity to see him speak, do it, his knowledge of proper training is amazing!!

[Mr. Intenseone]

Oh brother, sometimes I wonder why people even belong to a gym?  If you're going to lift, for whatever reason, going extremely light ain't going to do shit. 

This is where I have a problem, I see quotes like this I have to think to myself that 80% of the posters on here really don't know how to train? Do you think everyone has to train heavy to get results? Maybe the people that are training "extremely" light are beginners, or maybe elderly who just want to do something to keep moving or maybe even a person doing some rehab. Saying why you "wonder why even people even belong to a gym".

Let me ask you, are you going to just throw a beginner in a squat rack on their first day? Do you think that athletes don't belong in a gym if they don't train heavy? Because if thats what you think your dead wrong!

[americanbulldog]

I think the tards here are those who havnt yet grasped the concept of doing an exercise like this.  He's obviously not doing it for MASSIVE QUADS... jeez. 
Little something called balance, rehab, working around existing injuries, motor unit recruitment, etc. 
Seriously.  This pic has been posted like 99million times and I'm still willing to bet that maybe two people on this entire board could pull this off.  A feat nonetheless if only a few can do it right?

I do balance board squats, and it isn't as effective for size, but I am not interested in size anymore.  Athletic training is progressing.  You must be able to exert force in more than just one plane.  It has it's merits. 

[The Showstoppa]

This is where I have a problem, I see quotes like this I have to think to myself that 80% of the posters on here really don't know how to train? Do you think everyone has to train heavy to get results? Maybe the people that are training "extremely" light are beginners, or maybe elderly who just want to do something to keep moving or maybe even a person doing some rehab. Saying why you "wonder why even people even belong to a gym".

Let me ask you, are you going to just throw a beginner in a squat rack on their first day? Do you think that athletes don't belong in a gym if they don't train heavy? Because if thats what you think your dead wrong!

No, the people who train extremly light are just fags.  Hope this helps.

[Mr. Intenseone]

No, the people who train extremly light are just fags.  Hope this helps.

Thanks for re-enforcing what I said....I now rest my case!

[Saskbb]

I think if God was going to weed out the stupid, he'd probably start with the average bodybuilder. In all seriousness, there are always exceptions, but if there was a way to measure intellect per sport(not that bodybuilding is a sport but for the sake of illustration) bodybuilders would be way down there. And by the way, except for the pro's, I'm as much of a bodybuilder as the rest of you.

Good for you Top Dog, I'm looking forward to seeing your pics!  I encourage everyone to set goals and do their best!

Good Luck  maybe you will be a pro someday!

[Devon97]

I do balance board squats, and it isn't as effective for size, but I am not interested in size anymore.  Athletic training is progressing.  You must be able to exert force in more than just one plane.  It has it's merits. 

Let me ask you my friend  :  When you perform balance Board squats, what plane are you exerting force in?

[Mike]

Let me ask you my friend  :  When you perform balance Board squats, what plane are you exerting force in?

Sagittal....what did I win!

[Mike]

I have been following Mike Boyles philosophy for years and alot of my training is based on his therories and methods and then I just modify it into my own training, it's not bodybuilding training it's all based on athletic protocal.......he's a brilliant trainer and if you ever get the opportunity to see him speak, do it, his knowledge of proper training is amazing!!

I've seen a few great speakers (Gary Gray, JC Santana...) but not Mike Boyle.  I missed IHRSA last year and they always have great speakers, I'll get around to it.  Right now I just hang out on his board and try to take in as much as I can.

[Blockhead]

I've seen a few great speakers (Gary Gray, JC Santana...) but not Mike Boyle.  I missed IHRSA last year and they always have great speakers, I'll get around to it.  Right now I just hang out on his board and try to take in as much as I can.

You'll probably learn more here...

[Devon97]

Sagittal....what did I win!

Respect! Good job..... See my next question below ; )

[Mike]

You'll probably learn more here...

Actually, this one time I was training someone and they accidentally dropped a 75lb dumbell on their groin and I instinctively yelled "Pwn3d!!!"  It's starting to finally sink in.

[Mr. Intenseone]

I've seen a few great speakers (Gary Gray, JC Santana...) but not Mike Boyle.  I missed IHRSA last year and they always have great speakers, I'll get around to it.  Right now I just hang out on his board and try to take in as much as I can.

I had the opportunity to follow Boyle around for a couple of weeks when he was at Athletes Performance at the Home Depot Center in Carson, Ca, I go to his board frequently and also Sports Specific and Performbetter and a bunch of others. Look for the Perform better seminars where they all speak, Juan Carlos Santana, Gary Gray, Eric Cressy, Mark Vergesten, etc, I'll be going to a couple this year!

[Mr. Intenseone]

You'll probably learn more here...

k !

[Devon97]

I think the tards here are those who havnt yet grasped the concept of doing an exercise like this.  He's obviously not doing it for MASSIVE QUADS... jeez. 
Little something called balance, rehab, working around existing injuries, motor unit recruitment, etc. 
Seriously.  This pic has been posted like 99million times and I'm still willing to bet that maybe two people on this entire board could pull this off.  A feat nonetheless if only a few can do it right?

Doing squats on a balance ball under a load is NOT used for rehab, Definately not working around existing injuries and NO exercise performed on a Stability ball will influence morot unit recruitment more efficiently then free weights.
Let me ask you my friend: Since you brought up motor unit recruitment, How does performing squats on a stability ball have any different affect on motor unit recruitment that squats performed on a stable surface?

[Blockhead]

Actually, this one time I was training someone and they accidentally dropped a 75lb dumbell on their groin and I instinctively yelled "Pwn3d!!!"  It's starting to finally sink in.

I know. This place can institutionalize you if you let it. Last 4th of July my sister fell off my parents back porch...I thought to myself...'OWNED!'

 When I saw Kramer on TV 'speaking the truth'...i thought...'EPIC MELTDOWN!'.

[Mr. Intenseone]

Let me ask you my friend: Since you brought up motor unit recruitment, How does performing squats on a stability ball have any different affect on motor unit recruitment that squats performed on a stable surface?

I personally don't see were it can, it's a recipe for disaster and if it's a professional athlete that is doing it and he gets injured, you can kiss that trainers career goodbye!

[muscleforlife]

Have you ever tried it? It isn't easy and should be apart of an athletes regular core training, balance is a HUGE part of athletic training and what that dude is doing is a regular part of sports teams strength programs, if this guy wasn't hanging on to the rack an was just balancing of that stability ball that's an awesome feat, I know many hockey players who do the same thing.

BTW, the dude doing squats on the ball is just plain retarded!
[/quot

I totally agree with this post.  Squatting on a swiss ball is insane.  The ratio of effectiveness vs injury is paramount.

The BOSU  half a ball, other side flat is wonderful for balance and core strength,  if you have never stepped on a bosu, try it for one minute with both feet to see how balanced your body is.  Turn it over and do squats with no weight, it is quite intense.
Sandra

[muscleforlife]

Then if thats the case he should join a fitness gym and not a bodybuilders gym. They have fitness centers for people who want to train like that. You don't join a bodybuilding gym to do pushups and situps. Or in his case ball squats. Frankly, what he is doing on that ball is dangerous and could hurt someone. It has Zero value in a bodybuilding gym with modern day equipment. I wish you pipsqueaks would understand that.

PB

Actually, it is up to the owners of the gym who decide what a member can or can not do. If the gym has the equipment in it, The members can and probably are encouraged to use it.

When I train clients at the Apollon, it is hard core, basic equipment, no tubes, swiss balls, bosu, etc.  I bring my own and if a member uses my equipment, it is written on MY equipment they use it at their own risk.  It isn't a part of the gym and is kept outside of the gym floor.  You have to bring it thru the turnstile with you. 
Not many people that train their use it.  I guess they don't want to seem "different" then the hardcore lifters.

Sandra