Author Topic: The Greatest Show on Earth: the 1999 English Grand Prix. (Read 11894 times)

pobrecito · « **Reply #25 on:** January 04, 2007, 01:35:29 PM »

Matt I've seriously lost all respect for your opinion when you said Jay had a better rear lat spread than Dorian. If you said Ronnie did, I would argue with you, but I would still respect your decision. But Jay is not even close, Jay is the puffiest and softest Mr. Olympia of all-times, who only won the title not becuase of his superiority but rather becuase Ronnie was off.

Take a close look at these pictures. Cutler isn't even in the same league.

NarcissisticDeity · « **Reply #26 on:** January 04, 2007, 01:40:46 PM »

Quote from: pobrecito on January 04, 2007, 01:35:29 PM

Matt I've seriously lost all respect for your opinion when you said Jay had a better rear lat spread than Dorian. If you said Ronnie did, I would argue with you, but I would still respect your decision. But Jay is not even close, Jay is the puffiest and softest Mr. Olympia of all-times, who only won the title not becuase of his superiority but rather becuase Ronnie was off.

Take a close look at these pictures. Cutler isn't even in the same league.

read Matt's review about Yates lol he said Yates was nothing special from the front lol he had probably the best front latspread and ab-thigh in the sport , yet he was nothing special from the front !! lol Matt is another guy who is like Hulkster they can't figure Yates out so he must be overrated .

NarcissisticDeity · « **Reply #27 on:** January 04, 2007, 02:02:04 PM »

Quote from: Matt C on January 04, 2007, 01:57:41 PM

Those pictures are the rear double biceps and it is true that Dorian clearly trumps Jay's condition in those pictures.

But post the rear lat spread comparison now.

I meant in the front relaxed pose, Dorian was nothing special. In other front poses he still wasn't that much better than the other nearest competitors - it was close. It was only when he turned to the side or the rear where he was dominant. there is a difference.

It seems like there's no budging with you or meeting halfway with your opinions. I can fairly explain Dorian's strengths and his weaknesses, yet it seems you won't be satisfied unless I admit that Dorian utterly destroys Ronnie and everyone else in every area.

No never said what you meant and I can only take your opinion for what you type , and no one was close with Yates in the front latspread ! ab-thigh Nasser was close but thats about it , and this has nothing to do with Ronnie/Dorian it has to do with your abilities , you think Jay beats Yates in the rear latspread because he's wider when there are a host of other factors .

The Squadfather · « **Reply #28 on:** January 04, 2007, 02:03:07 PM »

Yates had the best front spread ever.

TheAnimal · « **Reply #29 on:** January 04, 2007, 02:05:19 PM »

Quote from: The Squadfather on January 04, 2007, 02:03:07 PM

Yates had the best front spread ever.

no doubt

Hulkster · « **Reply #30 on:** January 04, 2007, 02:08:12 PM »

that pic of jay's back is really really sad.

we went from Mr. O backs like Ronnie and dorian and then that $:-\$

phyxsius · « **Reply #31 on:** January 04, 2007, 02:09:01 PM »

big thick and wide

The Squadfather · « **Reply #32 on:** January 04, 2007, 02:10:26 PM »

[/quote]these are some better pics of Jays back, look at the rear double biceps shot.

natural al · « **Reply #33 on:** January 04, 2007, 02:11:04 PM »

Quote from: Hulkster on January 04, 2007, 02:08:12 PM

that pic of jay's back is really really sad.

we went from Mr. O backs like Ronnie and dorian and then that $:-\$

not to be a dick but if Ron would have kept his back looking like it used to look instead fo the bloated mess it's been for the last few years he'd still be mr. O...don't hate the player-jay-hate the game (what the "mr. O" has become over the last decade or so...all mass but no quality)

pobrecito · « **Reply #34 on:** January 04, 2007, 02:12:24 PM »

Jay's rear lat isn't even in the same stratosphere as Yates $:-\$

Matt C · « **Reply #35 on:** January 04, 2007, 02:15:57 PM »

I would like to see a comparison with Dorian to this picture:

I've also seen even better pictures of Jay's lat spread.

Hulkster · « **Reply #36 on:** January 04, 2007, 02:17:25 PM »

does jay charge admission to using the rink on his back?

natural al · « **Reply #37 on:** January 04, 2007, 02:21:55 PM »

like I've said in the past, it ain't jay's fault he's 285 and smooth as a babies butt...it's the judges fault for dictating that look to him for the last few years. Honestly he never, ever would have won if he didn't come in at the size he did...didn't matter how cut he was if he was smaller than Ron he would loose, that was established in 01. The Mr. Olympia is a tottally different animal than what it used to be, it used to be about who was the best bodybuilder on the planet now it's just "if you're bigger than everybody else and kinda cut we'll give it to ya....shape, aesthetics, seperation, muscularity...what do those things have to do with being mr. O?"

phyxsius · « **Reply #38 on:** January 04, 2007, 02:23:20 PM »

Indeed Jay's back is very good but Yates is in his own world

b.c. · « **Reply #39 on:** January 04, 2007, 02:27:43 PM »

Dorians 95 lat spread is the freakiest condition and mass from top to bottom ever. Jesus

MAXX · « **Reply #40 on:** January 04, 2007, 02:40:55 PM »

thing is, some people can get great conditioning in one bodypart and be unconditioned in another. That is the problem with Jays back. Jays quads are super cut and defined but his back is still holding water. Yates had a dry and cut back but never had conditioned quads with straitions and cuts like Jay have.

NarcissisticDeity · « **Reply #41 on:** January 04, 2007, 02:48:21 PM »

Quote from: Matt C on January 04, 2007, 02:41:20 PM

How can we trust ND who said that Frank Zane was better than Shawn Ray and 1999 ronnie?

I also think ND should lose credibility for swallowing the sperm of Dorian Yates.

Matt I've lost my ' credibility ' for years now on here lol and I may not know everything but I easily know more than you

and you're the same guy who who said Marky-Mark and Bob Paris have similar physiques

pobrecito · « **Reply #42 on:** January 04, 2007, 02:49:36 PM »

Quote from: MAXX on January 04, 2007, 02:40:55 PM

thing is, some people can get great conditioning in one bodypart and be unconditioned in another. That is the problem with Jays back. Jays quads are super cut and defined but his back is still holding water. Yates had a dry and cut back but never had conditioned quads with straitions and cuts like Jay have.

Unforntunately, you will probably never understand this, but Dorian's legs were as conditioned as humanly possible. Cuts and striations are a predicated upon the actual makeup of the muscles and how they are put together. Dorian literally could have been 0% BF and still had less cuts in his quads than Flex or Jay at 10% BF. Jay's problem on the other hand is conditioning, and not just in his back, his whole upper body looks very soft and watery.

Matt C · « **Reply #43 on:** January 04, 2007, 02:50:10 PM »

Quote from: NarcissisticDeity on January 04, 2007, 02:48:21 PM

Matt I've lost my ' credibility ' for years now on here lol and I may not know everything but I easily know more than you and you're the same guy who who said Marky-Mark and Bob Paris have similar physiques

The point there was that aesthetics alone doesn't beat sheer mass. If Bob should beat Ronnie because of aesthetics as you say, where do you draw the line?

natural al · « **Reply #44 on:** January 04, 2007, 02:51:38 PM »

Quote from: Matt C on January 04, 2007, 02:50:10 PM

The point there was that aesthetics alone doesn't beat sheer mass. If Bob should beat Ronnie because of aesthetics as you say, where do you draw the line?

yes but aesthetics aren't even considered anymore at the olympia...shouldn't they count for a thing?

NarcissisticDeity · « **Reply #45 on:** January 04, 2007, 02:56:15 PM »

Quote from: Matt C on January 04, 2007, 02:50:10 PM

The point there was that aesthetics alone doesn't beat sheer mass. If Bob should beat Ronnie because of aesthetics as you say, where do you draw the line?

Paris was not a small competitor he competed at 235-240 pounds at his best plus he had aesthetics , one shouldn't trump the other its the best compromise of all.

Matt C · « **Reply #46 on:** January 04, 2007, 02:58:00 PM »

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/big/2006/2006olympia_pre_men154.jpg

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/big/2006/2006olympia_pre_men265.jpg

NarcissisticDeity · « **Reply #47 on:** January 04, 2007, 03:04:47 PM »

Quote from: Matt C on January 04, 2007, 02:58:00 PM

Yes they should. So if we are going based on who has the best overall combination of:

(1) Size
(2) Condition
(3) Proportion
(4) Stature

Who would the best be? Victor Martinez? Bodybuilding contests haven't been judged like that for a long time. Think back to Rich Gaspari at the 1986 Pro Mr. World. He was the best, but not for the combination of reasons described above. In his case, muscularity and overall impressiveness gave him the win. For Jay in 2006 it was a size and conditioning combination.

As for some of the other comments on this thread, how can anyone take the man who has one of the widest rear lat spreads ever and say he is not in the same class as Yates? It's as if you guys aren't giving him any credit at all. Dorian trumps him on conditioning, but Jay has him on width. Side by side, neither "destroys" the other or anything of that sort.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/big/2006/2006olympia_pre_men154.jpg

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/big/2006/2006olympia_pre_men265.jpg

factor in Yates had better conditioning and a better back , much better sweep to his lats , Jay would be wider but by how much? Yates at a similar weight

NarcissisticDeity · « **Reply #48 on:** January 04, 2007, 03:12:53 PM »

Quote from: Matt C on January 04, 2007, 03:08:39 PM

After looking at these pictures, I have to take back my statement that Jay is clearly superior in the rear lat spread. Not due to Dorian's hardness though, as I already knew he was harder, but I didn't realize just how big Dorian's lat spread was. I remember it not being as big as Ronnie's, and this year Jay had Ronnie's beat in terms of size. If anything, that just goes to show how far Ronnie has regressed, sadly. $:-\$

But Jay appears to have Dorian in calves and his back is round and full. Put them side by side and Dorian by no means would be dwarfing Jay, but the hardness might give him the edge.

similar weight

pobrecito · « **Reply #49 on:** January 04, 2007, 03:15:44 PM »

Jay's calves better than Dorian's $:-\$ dude..put down the crack pipe.

It's truly laughable that we are even debating this. Jay is nowhere near Ronnie or Dorian at their bests. In fact, in my opinion, Jay is a disgrace to the heritage of the Mr. Olympia. With his wide, saggy waist, and super soft and poor condition, Jay has actually regressed the sport.

You are seriously dumber than suckymyass and that is saying a lot $:-\$