Planned routine for mass by March, please critique

[Cap]

  The lower reps are because I am a hardgainer ectomorph.

I will be eating 4000 calories a day while also using creatine, NO Xplode and Whey Protein.

Chest:
Incline Bench: 4x12, 10, 8, 6
Flat DB: 3x10, 8, 6
Flat flyes: 3x8
Incline cable flyes: 3x8

Arms:
Rope pushdowns:4x15, 12, 10, 18
CG bench: 4x12, 10, 6, 6
Dips: 3x10
Reverse grip pushdowns or overhead ext: 3x10
Barbell curls: 4x10, 8, 6, 6
Preacher curls: 4x10, 8, 6, 6
Concentration curls: 4x8

Legs:
Squats: 5x20, 12, 10, 8, 8
Leg Press: 4x 12, 10, 8, 6
Leg ext: 4x8
Stiff Deadlifts: 5x8
Seated leg curls: 5x8

Back:
Chins: 4x10
Dealifts: 4x8, 6, 4, 2
Barbell Rows: 4x 10, 8, 6, 6
Pulley rows or Tbars: 3x8, 6, 6
Pulldowns: 3x8

Delts/Traps:
Arnold Press: 3x12, 10, 8
Cleans: 4x5
Wide grip upright rows: 4x5
Bent Laterals: 4x10, 10, 8, 6

Calves/abs (everyday)
Standing calves: 6x10
Crunches: 4x20
Cable crunches: 4x20
Oblique crunches: 4x20

Please critique as necessary and alter what you think could be changed.  Thanks guys.

[Jr. Yates]

Cap, like i said, i wouldn't count the sets where your hitting reps of 8+, i would just call those warm ups, with large muscles like chest,back and legs Use 4 sets for all excersises in the 6-8 rep range. Don't worry about overtraining thats bullshit cuz im natural and for arms i do 40 sets alltogether sometimes.

[Jr. Yates]

Cap, on chest day i'd get rid of incline cable flyes...i'd do 4 sets of 20 of those at the beginning of the workout as a warm up or cable cross overs instead.

[Option D]

Cap be careful W/close grip bench for tris. I did them in oct and i sprained my right wrist. I only had 225 on the bar so i think its a movement that your body has to be configured for.
My wrist still hurts during pressing movements.

[Your MAAAAaaaa]

Cap, like i said, i wouldn't count the sets where your hitting reps of 8+, i would just call those warm ups, with large muscles like chest,back and legs Use 4 sets for all excersises in the 6-8 rep range. Don't worry about overtraining thats bullshit cuz im natural and for arms i do 40 sets alltogether sometimes.

So what? Does that mean I should do 40 sets sometimes? Is 40 sets necessary? If so why not 50, 60, 70??

Not being a twat just want your opinions

ta ta

[Cap]

Cap be careful W/close grip bench for tris. I did them in oct and i sprained my right wrist. I only had 225 on the bar so i think its a movement that your body has to be configured for.
My wrist still hurts during pressing movements.

I am planning on doing them heavy with an EZ curl bar but I agree about wrist pain.

Cap, on chest day i'd get rid of incline cable flyes...i'd do 4 sets of 20 of those at the beginning of the workout as a warm up or cable cross overs instead.

I think I am gonna ditch them and do Medium to close grip inclines to hit the inner upper chest.

I also think I am going to ditch either deadlifts or BB rows on back day and replace it with cleans and pull out the wide grip upright rows on delt day and add laterals back in.  I am also thinking of doing a military pullup routine instead of doing pulldowns.

[pumpster]

Cap be careful W/close grip bench for tris. I did them in oct and i sprained my right wrist. I only had 225 on the bar so i think its a movement that your body has to be configured for.
My wrist still hurts during pressing movements.

Very true. If possible use an E-Z curl for CGBP, keep the reps moderate and be fully warmed up; if that doesn't work and injuries occur CGBP can be replaced with bench dips, dips, dip machine, heavy pushdowns, etc.

[Option D]

Damn i wish i knew the dangers of Close grip before i did them. It costed me a good 2 months of real training.

[Jr. Yates]

So what? Does that mean I should do 40 sets sometimes? Is 40 sets necessary? If so why not 50, 60, 70??

Not being a twat just want your opinions

ta ta

why not? the only reason why i'll stop is when i know im done. mags and shit put it in your head you have to stop at a certain set and rep range, if you can do more why stop?? its like saying ok im goign to do the 100s for 6 and you get to 6 and stop, when you had 5 more reps in you! 

[GoneAway]

why not? the only reason why i'll stop is when i know im done. mags and shit put it in your head you have to stop at a certain set and rep range, if you can do more why stop?? its like saying ok im goign to do the 100s for 6 and you get to 6 and stop, when you had 5 more reps in you! 

Arnold suggests never stopping short of failure, no matter how many reps you set out to achieve on that set. I agree, as once you know your failure point with a certain weight, you can make adjustments accordingly to perfect the failure point/rep range ratio and work the fibers you want to their full extent.

Nothing's wrong with 4 sets or 20 sets. Find out what you prefer or what gives you gains and stick with it. In training, there is no perfect program.

Cap, I think you should scrap reverse grip pushdowns and concentration curls, as they're not power excs. Also, you're a natural with only 2 months to put on mass (of which will probably be very small.) So, good luck but don't expect to be a Ruhl.

Damn i wish i knew the dangers of Close grip before i did them. It costed me a good 2 months of real training.

Your wrist are bent in a way they shouldn't be when your hands are too close. You should always warm up doing them with a straight bar and wear wrist wraps if possible.

[Cap]

LTS, yeah I know I'm not going to be Ruhl in two months but I think I can alter what I have and add some decent pounds on my frame.  Know what I mean?

[Jr. Yates]

LTS, yeah I know I'm not going to be Ruhl in two months but I think I can alter what I have and add some decent pounds on my frame.  Know what I mean?

as long as you train hard and heavy its your diet that is the key. Depending on your body type, you have to put together a good mass diet.  Myself, In the beginning i hating eating it would take me a long time sometimes, i basically force fed myself and the majority of the time i wasn't even hungry....all clean food mind you.  Now im eating the same foods in the same time slots just much smaller portions an im holding a bodyweight of 221lbs-225lbs.

[Royalty]

If you want to replace close grip bench presses, I feel reverse grip bench presses are just as good.

[pumpster]

why not? the only reason why i'll stop is when i know im done. mags and shit put it in your head you have to stop at a certain set and rep range, if you can do more why stop?? its like saying ok im goign to do the 100s for 6 and you get to 6 and stop, when you had 5 more reps in you! 

He was talking about set numbers. If each set's done with intensity, there's no way or need for a lot of sets, actually. The lower the intensity per set the more marathon sets can be done, for dubious benefits.

[Jr. Yates]

He was talking about set numbers. If each set's done with intensity, there's no way or need for a lot of sets, actually. The lower the intensity per set the more marathon sets can be done, for dubious benefits.

no your right, thats why i go by feel only. if i've done 30 sets and im still having a great time training i feel great im pumped, i got energy im obviously going to keep going as others would say nononono bad bad your overtraining! somedays back might only take 15 sets and others it could be 28, it also depends on what excersises you throw together, how much you've ate etc. so FEEL is the way to go, it just takes time to aquire the "feel".

[JPM]

Getting back to Cap86 original post:

There are  many 90 day programs that have been around for years. But you have to get your thinking away from  general BB'ing program, of too many exercises and sets per week. The kind that Cap86 laid out. You can work on the "pretty" muscles after you gain the pure muscle mass that is going to set you apart from the average BB'er.

The 90 day programs are made up of heavy compound exercises, with 3 day a week workouts. Squats, DL's, Pulls, Overhead presses, BP, etc. Look at the PL'er and Olympic lifters for extra muscle thickness and size and follow their training example accordingly. One important point that they most all share is not going to the point of failure on every exercise or in every workout.

You can do full body work or split the workouts into lower body one day and upper the next workout day. Usually one main compound exercise per body part on such programs. But in any case, keep the workout short and to the point. Usually 3 to 5 sets a muscle group. Like 5X5's for example. An ideal workout would be based around the breathing squat, but few people want to work that hard...too bad. With some people I know, much success has been gained with the following.

Monday   Upper body
Wednsday   Lower
Friday   Upper

next Monday start with lower, Wednsday..upper and Friday lower again

Just alternate each week that way.

4000 calories is good along with the Creatine. Which I have seen work quite well in our athlete dept. Good Luck.

[Cap]

Yea...I am thinking of incorporating more power/olympic lifts.  I still want to hit the arms, calves, even if with two or three exercises because frankly my arms suck and would look dumb if they were even more out of proportion.  Do you think that would be a big deal?  I was thinking of ditching laterals for high pulls and cleans, clean and press instead of BB press, ditching pulldowns.  I did chins, deadlifts and power cleans yesterday during back and my back is pumped and sore top to bottom, the most sore in a long time.  What do you think about some of these JPM?

[pumpster]

Cleans and Clean & Jerks might be the best all-round conditioning & functional athletic exercises around and like anything else, are worth trying for a while to see the overall development that can be expected from anything new that shocks the muscles from different angles. The soreness will happen on anything effective and new.

For size, compounds and overall body exercises like this aren't better than BB/isolation exercises-they're just another good avenue, one of several  ingredient that should be tried. One of the fallasies is the idea accepted as gospel by some that because heavier weights are used in compounds, they're better for size. Pure speculation on something that has never been substantiated. Use heavy-ass weights on any exercise of any kind, and development should follow. A classic example of the compounds school of thought is that squats will increase upper body size, when many never see any correlation. If compounds were all that mattered for size, BBs would only be doing close-grip chins instead of curls.

On the other hand, for athletics & overall conditioning, classic lifts and compounds are superior.

[Cap]

I def like the pump and soreness I get in the traps and mid/upper back from cleans.

[JPM]

Cap86: It shouldn't be a question of incorporating more power/Olympic lifts, but have them as the main and only serious exercises in your program. You devoting  90 days on a program, which should produce  a positive gain of at least 10lbs of pure muscle (most of the high school and college athletes gain a mean average of 10 to 20 lbs of pure muscle with-in a 90 day period...some a lot more). Time for the smaller muscle groups like the arms and calves after wards. The arms and calves should gain some anyway through the compound movements. Get huge  and have that rugged & powerful look that you could walk through a closed door first, than worry if those arm's are  not quite as big as Colemans. Throw in a few sets of heavy cheat curls at the end of a power workout. Or one legged DB calf raises after (probably one of the most productive exercise for the calfs behind 40 yard sprints, full speed) thje regular training.

Compound and full body exercises produce faster and more solid  results that the regular BB'ing isolations exercises (actually there is no such thing as pure isolation exercise....misconceptio n). Ask any strength or sports coach which type of training he would prefer, compound or isolation. If you can work with-in a power rack than so much the better for you and future results. Partial rack work can give outstanding benefits in size and power.

Might try:

Workout A .....DL, Hi-pulls (nipple high), dips

Workout B ....Squat, BB row, Push Press (bar resting on the heels of the hands for a better power leverage,  inline with the wrist and forearms) or jerk press off a rack (knee dip and use speed coming up to jerk the bar off the shoulders overhead.

Workout C...BB Hack squat (not on a machine...preformed like a reversed DL with the hands behind the body rather than the front), Bench press (medium to close grip), DB side press (one arm at a time, alternate each side..terrific shoulder mass builder)

Pick whatever combination you wish. Or do  Workout A one day than Workout B the next day and Workout C after that. Or Just pick the more appealing program and stick with that. Good Luck.

[Cap]

Thanks JPM.  I believe what you say because the football players in HS and college always put on mass faster than me, mine was just more refined but like you said, once it is there I can "make it pretty".  Thanks again.

[pumpster]

If compounds were better, top BB's would use them almost exclusively on areas like arms. The opposite often applies-why Coleman's fave bi & tri size builders have never been compounds. Likewise most of Larry Scott's & Schwarzenegger's arm training for the most part. A combo of both is best.

As far as someone putting on more weight, that could've happened using any number of programs when combined with genetics & decent nutrition. The rest comes down to the individual's reaction.

[JPM]

Actually the top Pro BB'ers can do without heavy compound exercises. Like The Pumpster said, combining superior genetics and nutrition (That special "nutrition" mainly supplled from a needle to the butt or in the ab area)  makes training that much more productive. Any exercise machine used at a senior's fitness center  can probably apply to give  results for most Pro's. They could get bigger waving milk cartons around over their heads.  Any so called isolation exercise is not the main cause for the super size ot these Pro's.

But I'm focusing on the average Joe Gymbag. With average genetics, but the force of will to work hard for any gains he may achieve. He can turbo charge his potentional with heavy compound exercises for short periods of time, during a training year. That's something that can't be denied. I've found that a lot of men tend to have a dread of lifting heavy or even using a BB. They talk one way and act another way when in a gym. Always afraid of hurting themselves or coming up with lame excuses not to train hard and heavy. They all seen to settle for a machine or lighter weights, feeling safer. For what ever reason. Good Luck.

[pumpster]

It's not viable to dismiss the knowledge & training of pros because of superior genetics & drugs. This is a popular theory on the net. What changes for those with these advantages is the degree & speed of development, as well as the ability to increase the workload and recover more quickly.

The fundamentals of training do not change. A guy on or off the juice will still like the same exercises.