Author Topic: Karate blackbelts in K-1 and MMA (Read 4571 times)

realkarateblackbelt · « **on:** January 11, 2007, 10:30:33 PM »

There are quite a few karate fighters competing in the highest levels of martial arts. Some you might not be aware of:

Bas Rutten - 2nd degree TKD, 4th degree Kyokushin, UFC champion, King of Pancrase
Andy Hug - Kyokushinkai, K-1 champion (now deceased)
Georges St. Pierre - kyokushinkai, UFC champion
Semmy Schilt - Wado-Ryo Karate, K-1 champion
Jerome Lebanner - Kyokushin Karate

americanbulldog · « **Reply #1 on:** January 12, 2007, 01:21:36 AM »

Old hat....

torquemada · « **Reply #2 on:** January 12, 2007, 03:06:27 AM »

Several cMMA fighters have karate as part of their background, but ALL of them had to seriously expand their skills or get killed...

SinCitysmallGUY · « **Reply #3 on:** January 12, 2007, 10:36:52 AM »

Andy Hug is the man, or should i say was the man..... Someone should post some videos of his fights...

Fury · « **Reply #4 on:** January 12, 2007, 12:43:35 PM »

This is my favorite Hug highlight, pretty sad at the end though. Get a glimpse of the respect the guy had, however.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2278829415239643675&q=andy+hug

realkarateblackbelt · « **Reply #5 on:** January 12, 2007, 05:37:25 PM »

Cool clip.

SinCitysmallGUY · « **Reply #6 on:** January 12, 2007, 07:57:33 PM »

Quote from: realkarateblackbelt on January 12, 2007, 05:37:25 PM

Cool clip.

One of the best clips I have seen in a while.... I give it a 10 BF good job posting this one buddy.

Nathan · « **Reply #7 on:** January 14, 2007, 07:36:15 AM »

Again Karatie is for demos not real fighting!

realkarateblackbelt · « **Reply #8 on:** January 14, 2007, 10:43:46 PM »

Walk into a full-contact karate dojo and tell the instuctor he doesn't know how to fight. You've never encountered a legitimate black belt in Gojo-ryu, Kyokushin, or Shurin-ryu. They go through many real fights - meaning no gloves whatsover before attaining that. It takes 6 years of brutal training. I'm sure Andy Hug, doesn't know how to fight. You're a know nothing. Ask Bas Rutten about Karate. Or GSP. Full-contact Karate is the greatest standup fighting. It's been proven in K-1 and the UFC.

Fury · « **Reply #9 on:** January 14, 2007, 10:45:10 PM »

Quote from: Nathan on January 14, 2007, 07:36:15 AM

Again Karatie is for demos not real fighting!

Tell Andy Hug that. If he was around today I'm sure he would gladly break your collar bone with an axe kick.

realkarateblackbelt · « **Reply #10 on:** January 14, 2007, 10:47:17 PM »

Quote from: BerzerkFury on January 14, 2007, 10:45:10 PM

Tell Andy Hug that. If he was around today I'm sure he would gladly break your collar bone with an axe kick.

Exactly.

Or walk into any full-contact dojo and tell the guys they don't know how to fight.

G · « **Reply #11 on:** January 14, 2007, 10:50:51 PM »

Many of them started with karate at an early age, but once they grow up and realize whats effective and what's not they quickly switch to boxing,thai/kickboxing or grappling...

G · « **Reply #12 on:** January 14, 2007, 10:52:25 PM »

Quote from: realkarateblackbelt on January 14, 2007, 10:47:17 PM

Exactly.

Or walk into any full-contact dojo and tell the guys they don't know how to fight.

It's not about know or not know how to fight - it's about effectiveness!

Bluto · « **Reply #13 on:** January 15, 2007, 06:05:59 AM »

Kyokushinkai is tough, no doubt. but without allowing punches to the face in competition (and possibly even sparring?) it's limited and in my eyes doesn't qualify as an efficent art. However, it's an excellent background if one would mix it with something else, or start training something else completely.

There's some things that would make it BETTER than most other arts being the use of bareknuckle and, in some variations like Enshin allowing throws etc.

realkarateblackbelt · « **Reply #14 on:** January 15, 2007, 09:33:02 PM »

Full contact karate is proven as the best in K-1 standup fighting. Bas Rutten didn't dabble in karate, he's a fourth degree blackbelt in Kyokushin. They don't just hand those out, you have to earn it through brutal training and bareknuckle fighting. That's why he was so good with those kidney punches in his old fights. They used to allow head punches in Kyokushin kumite, but they stopped it because of serious injuries. They don't use gloves because it changes the way you block, and it's not realistic outside of sports combat. Karate isn't what you see in the movies, or what Bruce Lee says(who NEVER fought any legitimate karate fighter, and had trouble beating a Gung Fu man). It's very practicle. All the kicks in Muay Thai are used plus many more, and a variety of hand strikes, including the jab. It's a complete fighting style, proven time and time to be the best in standup.

Bluto · « **Reply #15 on:** January 16, 2007, 04:06:23 AM »

A complete fighting style that doesn't allow punching to the head? Yeah right. And it's nowhere near the best in standup. As for Bas, he's more a thai boxer than anything else, with a record of 14-1 with 14 KO's.

The greatest in K-1 has a thai/kick boxing background, not karate.

americanbulldog · « **Reply #16 on:** January 16, 2007, 02:00:02 PM »

Quote from: Bluto on January 16, 2007, 04:06:23 AM

A complete fighting style that doesn't allow punching to the head? Yeah right. And it's nowhere near the best in standup. As for Bas, he's more a thai boxer than anything else, with a record of 14-1 with 14 KO's.

The greatest in K-1 has a thai/kick boxing background, not karate.

Amen. Well said. Both Roufus' change in style from Karate based to Muay Thai may tell people something.

realkarateblackbelt · « **Reply #17 on:** January 16, 2007, 07:24:00 PM »

They punch to the head, just not in kumite. To many injuries. It doesn't make since to fight bareknuckle with headpunches if there's no money in it.

Bas isn't Muay Thai primarily. He's 4th dan and his standup is kyokushin. You don't buy this, you must complete 4 - 6 years of training at least. You seem to think Karate is some flashy stuff where they hold their legs out and do a bunch of spin kicks. It's the opposite. It's very practicle and linear. Semmy, Hug, and Lebanner are/were the top guys in K-1 and they are karate practicioners, not thai fighters. The main difference between karate and kickboxing is the fact that karate has all the hand of foot strikes of kickboxing, plus many more. And they practice bareknuckle without gloves.

Andy Hug(full-contact karate) vs. Cro Cop:

&NR

Kyokushin Karate vs. Wing chun Gung Fu:

Midori Kenji 5th World Champion Kyokushin Karate:

Bluto · « **Reply #18 on:** January 17, 2007, 04:57:03 AM »

Bas Rutten interview in Grappling march 2002:

Q: How has your personal fighting style developed over the years?

Bas Rutten:

When I started taekwondo and kyokushin, I already felt that there was more. Even though kyokushin is very tough, there was no hitting to the head. So after six months or so I also started to train in Thai boxing.

Nathan · « **Reply #19 on:** January 17, 2007, 08:08:46 AM »

This is a mute point! Obviously the moves most devastating in combat is tai boxing I would never be remotely afraid to fight a karate expert. If some ones been in TB for a year or more they start getting really scary.

And yes karate is linear which makes the moves easy to redirect

again no clinch game no ground game no proper punches etc... I could go on all day lol

Trust me I've been that route and found (By getting put in the hospital) that karate just ain't practical anymore it's one notch above TKD for crist sake.

Fury · « **Reply #20 on:** January 17, 2007, 08:11:47 AM »

In defense of Andy Hug, that guy was a Karate prodigy and would probably have been an amazing fighter no matter what art he specialized in.

realkarateblackbelt · « **Reply #21 on:** January 17, 2007, 10:58:28 AM »

Quote from: Nathan on January 17, 2007, 08:08:46 AM

This is a mute point! Obviously the moves most devastating in combat is tai boxing I would never be remotely afraid to fight a karate expert. If some ones been in TB for a year or more they start getting really scary.

And yes karate is linear which makes the moves easy to redirect again no clinch game no ground game no proper punches etc... I could go on all day lol

Trust me I've been that route and found (By getting put in the hospital) that karate just ain't practical anymore it's one notch above TKD for crist sake.

I'm talking about standup fighting idiot.
You said you wouldn't be afraid, yet earlier you already lied and claimed you fought and easily defeated a 4th degree blackbelt. You sound very confident, so why don't you go to an old-school Japanese style Kyokushin dojo with your video camera and invite the blackbelts to a fight. I'm sure you wouldn't do that because you're and airmchair fighter.

Many Kyokushin guys compete in sporting events like k-1 because they want to win money and fame, the karate tournaments themselves are just about personal glory. They don't use gloves because it's more realistic than hitting a bag or blocking with bulky gloves. Nathan knows nothing about the style, because they teach all the moves in Muay Thai, and go further than that. The thing is, because it's such a complete standup style it takes a long time to master, but the payoff is greater in the end if you stick to it. Kickboxing focuses on the most effective strikes in sport fighting, karate focuses on these and also the effective moves in streetfighting. Andy Hug knocked the crap out of Mirko because he had a greater aresenal of weapons to use on him. The number of legitimate blackbelts is few, because many people take karate for 2 years only attaining a green belt ranking and tell people their karate blackbelts, misrepresenting the style. Bas is a legitimate Blackbelt as is Hug, TKD is watered down and soft now.

americanbulldog · « **Reply #22 on:** January 17, 2007, 11:10:37 AM »

Quote from: realkarateblackbelt on January 17, 2007, 10:58:28 AM

I'm talking about standup fighting idiot.
You said you wouldn't be afraid, yet earlier you already lied and claimed you fought and easily defeated a 4th degree blackbelt. You sound very confident, so why don't you go to an old-school Japanese style Kyokushin dojo with your video camera and invite the blackbelts to a fight. I'm sure you wouldn't do that because you're and airmchair fighter.

Many Kyokushin guys compete in sporting events like k-1 because they want to win money and fame, the karate tournaments themselves are just about personal glory. They don't use gloves because it's more realistic than hitting a bag or blocking with bulky gloves. Nathan knows nothing about the style, because they teach all the moves in Muay Thai, and go further than that. The thing is, because it's such a complete standup style it takes a long time to master, but the payoff is greater in the end if you stick to it. Kickboxing focuses on the most effective strikes in sport fighting, karate focuses on these and also the effective moves in streetfighting. Andy Hug knocked the crap out of Mirko because he had a greater aresenal of weapons to use on him. The number of legitimate blackbelts is few, because many people take karate for 2 years only attaining a green belt ranking and tell people their karate blackbelts, misrepresenting the style. Bas is a legitimate Blackbelt as is Hug, TKD is watered down and soft now.

Isn't Mirko a Kyoshukin guy? Hug was just better than Mirko. Under MT rules, no one has consistently beaten a Thai unless they themselves practiced MT. Deadliest ringsport, PERIOD.

realkarateblackbelt · « **Reply #23 on:** January 17, 2007, 11:41:21 AM »

I don't think he is.

Bluto · « **Reply #24 on:** January 17, 2007, 11:44:56 AM »

Crocop evolved a lot since then. And even when - he lost to decision to Andy after 5 rounds. As for Andy, he's more the exception to the rule, he's not a typical karate guy. And down the road he would pick moves from other styles, incorporate punching in sparring etc.

Why karate would be great for self defense is beyond me. It's got nothing on boxing for example.