Anyone know Arnold's chest workout?

[dantelis]

Does anyone have Arnold's standard chest workout from the 60s/70s?  He has one of the most impressive chests of any bodybuilder and curious what he did (besides 'roids) to get it that massive.

[Tier]

in the end he was doing supersets with back

as far as all ive read hes always been into becnh pressing from the start as that was a big deal back then , chest and arms

he also would have challenges with mates on how many sets they could bench etc

ill have a look in his encyclopedia sumtime , he might say more specifically but mainly it was the usual basics , Bench press / incline , weighted dips leaning forward , db flys but going really low for a good stretch...

[Bluto]

maybe someone can check one of those magazines with an 'arnold special' im sure they've talked about how he trained chest many times

unfortunately i dont have any of those issues

[Cap]

Flat bench 7x12  article talked about only repping with 225
Incline bench 6x12 up to 295 (i think)
Flat flyes
Weighted Dips
Cable crossovers
DB pullovers-80 lb db

Hope that helps

[Bluto]

that being said, the way arnold trained his chest had little to do with the end result, or we all had chests like him by just copying his program...

[dantelis]

Flat bench 7x12  article talked about only repping with 225
Incline bench 6x12 up to 295 (i think)
Flat flyes
Weighted Dips
Cable crossovers
DB pullovers-80 lb db

Hope that helps

Thanks!

Interesting that it seems his flat bench max weight was lower than his incline.  I thought one could lift more with flat bench than incline.  (Or maybe that's just me.)  I'll give this routine a try and let you know if I get pecs as big as Arnold. 

[Cap]

I think he just wanted to pump blood.  Seven sets would be hard to pyramid too high and do 12 reps.  It was only one article detailing his workout on one day so I would think he would vary it.

[alexxx]

Flat bench 7x12  article talked about only repping with 225
Incline bench 6x12 up to 295 (i think)
Flat flyes
Weighted Dips
Cable crossovers
DB pullovers-80 lb db

Hope that helps

lol that was all hypothetical!! It is what the writer (shawn perine) pictured Arnold doing.

In Arnold's encyclopedia he does the following routine 3 times per week:

bench press
incline bench press
dumbell flyes
dips
pullovers

All for 5 sets. First set was the warm up 15 reps. Then 10, 8, 8, 6 and finally 4 for power. The last three exersizes are done with higher reps. (8-12)

I would not recommend that routine for a beginner. Instead for beginners Arnold recommends bench, flyes and pullovers 3 times a week.

[Cap]

Alexxx....I said it was one article and one particular workout....hope that clarifies it once again

[Bluto]

lol that was all hypothetical!! It is what the writer (shawn perine) pictured Arnold doing.

In Arnold's encyclopedia he does the following routine 3 times per week:

bench press
incline bench press
dumbell flyes
dips
pullovers

All for 5 sets. First set was the warm up 15 reps. Then 10, 8, 8, 6 and finally 4 for power. The last three exersizes are done with higher reps. (8-12)

I would not recommend that routine for a beginner. Instead for beginners Arnold recommends bench, flyes and pullovers 3 times a week.

cool. that means he pretty much only did 2 exercises for chest that was responsible for the most of his muscles in that area 

[dantelis]

I did some searching and found this from http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KFY/is_12_20/ai_98488428/pg_4.  Thanks for all the replies.  

ARNOLD'S ALL-OUT CHEST-BACK WORKOUT
Bench presses *                     1  30-45
Bench presses                       5  20-6 +

Wide-grip behind-the-neck chins     5  15-8 +

Incline barbell presses             5  10-15
T-bar rows                          5  10-15

Flat-bench dumbbell flyes           5  10-15
Wide-grip barbell rows              5  10-15
    (performed standing on a block
    for better range of motion)

Dips                                5   15
Close-grip chins                    5   12

Stiff-arm pullovers                 5  15-20
Iso-tension contractions
    (finishing exercise)

* Performed as a warm-up.
+ Pyramid sets.

NOTE: Arnold took absolutely no rest between sets and exercises of the
four supersets.

RELATED ARTICLE: EARLY CHEST
This is the chest routine Arnold Schwarzenegger used three times a week at the start of his bodybuilding career. Although science has provided little evidence that one can actually alter the size of a thorax after puberty, Arnold believes otherwise. "I am convinced," he says, "that I could effectively expand the rib cage by performing dumbbell pullovers." Hard to argue with the evidence!

EXERCISE               SETS  REPS

Bench presses           5    6-10
Incline bench presses   5    6-10
Flat-bench flyes        5    6-10
Dips                    5    6-10
Dumbbell pullovers      5    6-10

[pumpster]

cool. that means he pretty much only did 2 exercises for chest that was responsible for the most of his muscles in that area 

No, they were all effective. Flys are one of the best.

[Bluto]

No, they were all effective. Flys are one of the best.

i dont know about that. he didnt put them first, or second in his program, thinking of it, i cant remember seeing ANYONE that put flyes first in their chest program which should be saying something.

[pumpster]

i dont know about that. he didnt put them first, or second in his program, thinking of it, i cant remember seeing ANYONE that put flyes first in their chest program which should be saying something.

Order of exercises usually has to do with a number of factors unrelated to which is more effective: (1) convention, putting compounds first out of habit, (2) energy requirements, the fact that multiple muscles and lifting more weight requires more energy, (3) the overall warmup value involved with hitting the area in general first, with less specificity/stress on any particular muscle.

Those who believe in pre-exhaust do exactly the opposite and would do flys first, the theory there being that the isolation exercise is the purer, more intense movement.

Basically those guys could've done any number of programs and grown given the genetics, work ethic, nutrition, etc.

[Bluto]

I wouldn't say energy requirement is being unrelated to effectiveness. That would be the one reason pretty much everybody start with the most important exercises and most leaving flys for later, or leave it out alltogether. And it's not just the pros that doesn't seem to see flys belonging to the most important exercises for chest, here's what Max-OT has to say about it:

"Flat dumbbell flys are not a very efficient exercise for maximum muscle stimulation.

Flat dumbbell flys are an isolation exercise and they limit the amount of overload you can use.

Compound exercises like flat dumbbell presses are much more effective for muscular strength and development. "

[pumpster]

I wouldn't say energy requirement is being unrelated to effectiveness. That would be the one reason pretty much everybody start with the most important exercises and most leaving flys for later, or leave it out alltogether. And it's not just the pros that doesn't seem to see flys belonging to the most important exercises for chest, here's what Max-OT has to say about it:

"Flat dumbbell flys are not a very efficient exercise for maximum muscle stimulation.

Flat dumbbell flys are an isolation exercise and they limit the amount of overload you can use.

Compound exercises like flat dumbbell presses are much more effective for muscular strength and development. "

Max-OT is nothing other than another theory, to use it as gospel's a big mistake.

As i said, energy requirements that might put compounds first in some people's minds have nothing to do with greater muscle stimulation. One of the usual mistakes made is to continue to assume that heavier weights used on compounds = greater muscle stimulation, when in fact there's no proof of that at all.

[Bluto]

Max-OT is nothing other than another theory, to use it as gospel's a big mistake.

As i said, energy requirements that might put compounds first in some people's minds have nothing to do with greater muscle stimulation. One of the usual mistakes made is to continue to assume that heavier weights used on compounds = greater muscle stimulation, when in fact there's no proof of that at all.

Putting the most important exercises first makes sense in pretty much every case, with the exception of pre-exhaust. And I can't think of anyone that put fly's first, or even second. This should be telling us something. When Max-OT says flys isn't as good an exercise as presses, it's not just another theory, it's THE theory that as far as I know pretty much everybody agrees with.

Not only does all pros that I can think of put flyes WAY down on the list of exercises, there's also expert trainers that work with them behind the scenes that seem to agree with this (Charles Glass for example)

And they're not all about moving as much weight as possible, someone like Milos Sarcev who has very different ideas on training, picks flyes as the THIRD exercise in his video on the fit show.

Other theories like HST (Hypertrophy-Specific Training) doesn't even include flys in their program. Neither does HIT. Neither does people like Stuart McRobert (flys isn't even included in his 225 page book the Insiders Tell-All Handbook On Weight-Training Technique)

The only time flys is up there with the rest is if someone has a big problem "feeling" the muscle and targeting it IMO.

For someone to claim flyes is up there with bench presses etc., the burden of proof is on them.

[jpm101]

One man's theory may be another man's fact when it comes to building muscle mass in the shortest period of time. The tried and proven method of preforming the larger compound exercise first has been successful in most cases.The isolation movements (so called...usually extension movements like DB fly's, laterial raises, leg extensions, etc) will always be a poor substitute when training with serious intent for max size and strength.

There are exceptions of course. BB'ing is the practice of exceptions. The original Pre-exhaust system comes to mind. Where the idea is to tire a muscle area at first with a lighter movement (mostly higher, strict reps) and than to finish off with a compound exercise to push that muscle area even further. Like doing a set of cable fly's before a set of bench presses. The pec's become close to exhaustion with the fly's (hopefully) and than immediately pushed even further by doing a set of BP's which call upon the front delts and triceps for prime assistance. There are certain way's of SS'ing also this way. Good Luck.

[dantelis]

Basically those guys could've done any number of programs and grown given the genetics, work ethic, nutrition, etc...

...Drugs, etc.

[pumpster]

Drugs are a convient excuse but in fact the fundamentals don't change.

Some of you are caught up with convention, assuming that because compounds are sometimes done first they must be better when in fact there are several reasons it could be done that way. Because it's been done that way the assumption is that it must be right. Classic in the box thinking.

If what you're saying is true, biceps and triceps training would have to start with compounds, such as chins. Obviously this is not the case; those inconsistencies blow up conventional ways of thinking like this. 

Those EMG studies aren't perfect but do put flat bench BB presses near the very bottom.

[Bluto]

I put the most important exercises first because it would make sense to do so - my focus, my energy, my strength would all be higher in the beginning, and lower at the end.
You could mix it around a little bit for variety, but generally speaking I would stick with it.
Putting demanding exercises like squats or deadlifts at the very end after 1-1,5 hours of training would also be potentially dangerous since you'll be pretty beat at that time and not as focused.

If you can link to a number of coaches and/or training programes that praise flys as much as you do I would be happy to check it out.

[jpm101]

Actually classic In-Box thinking would be to believe that isolation exercises can be similar or just as good as compound exercises. Maybe some PC personal trainer may think so, but in the real gym experience the major muscle group movements are centered around compound exercises.

It would be to anyone advantage to start with a compound exercise when working the biceps and triceps. Like close curl grip chins, incline DB curls and Preacher curls, in that order for the biceps. Dip's, with the elbows held close to the sides and the body fairly straight up throughout the exercise. Followed by rope triceps presses and than one arm tricep DB presses. Maybe some of the guy's who have not made gains on their arms in years could have new spurts of growth with a better understanding of arm work.

As Bluto suggested, I also would like to learn which top coaches or training programs list fly's, or any other extension movement, that critical to training for muscle mass or strength. Good Luck.

[dontknowit]

Drugs are a convient excuse but in fact the fundamentals don't change.

Some of you are caught up with convention, assuming that because compounds are sometimes done first they must be better when in fact there are several reasons it could be done that way. Because it's been done that way the assumption is that it must be right. Classic in the box thinking.

If what you're saying is true, biceps and triceps training would have to start with compounds, such as chins. Obviously this is not the case; those inconsistencies blow up conventional ways of thinking like this. 

Those EMG studies aren't perfect but do put flat bench BB presses near the very bottom.

That's actually a routine that I use once in a while for biceps/triceps.

Start out with close-grip chins followed by dips.

[pumpster]

Actually classic In-Box thinking would be to believe that isolation exercises can be similar or just as good as compound exercises. Maybe some PC personal trainer may think so, but in the real gym experience the major muscle group movements are centered around compound exercises.


As Bluto suggested, I also would like to learn which top coaches or training programs list fly's, or any other extension movement, that critical to training for muscle mass or strength. Good Luck.

As i said, the advice JPM provides is right out of beginner's training 101, entirely bereft of real insight or naunce. Extremely predictable. As i've already said, isolations are used for the bulk of some muscle groups, for good reason. The only reason they're not used more widely is because of limited thinkers like JPM. Vince Gironda was a believer in isolations; when he suggested using compounds he always used his own versions of each compounds, because he knew that the standard compounds aren't particular effective.

[pumpster]

That's actually a routine that I use once in a while for biceps/triceps.

Start out with close-grip chins followed by dips.

The point that you ignored was just how rare that is.

It also shows that order vis-a-vis isolations/compounds really isn't that important as far as effectiveness. Compounds are sometimes done first but for other reasons, such as their value in warming up the overall area, not because they're more effective.