Mike Mentzer has some explaining to do

[figgs]

Don't worry figgs now that you know what works best you will have more drive then ever to succeed.

Now that I look back I should have never stopped doing my routine from 4 years ago! Sure I gained a bit of mass from experimenting with different programs but if i had stayed with that program I would have much better right now.

That's life for you. You live and learn.

Thanks bro. My motivation is on fire!!

I give Figgs credit for trying HIT to the max. the way it's supposed to be done. Not that common. It was worth it to find out. That intensity will easily translate to great workouts on a more conventional program.

I'd like to know what happened exactly to lead to such severe negative conclusions. Obviously it and other programs work for some.

I have no idea how exactly it may have happened. 

Um dude... why do you care how strong you are? I don't care if I can't bench 215 as long as I look like I can lift 500 pounds.

Why the obsession with the "weight"... just inquiring.

If I could get big   pressing 25s... I'd damn sure do that... itwould hurt a whole lot less.

It's all about the lifting experience. Pushing around big weights is only half the fun of  being a bodybuilder.

bro im sorry to hear u have such negative feelings now. I dont train the mentzer way as u know, but i still feel he was a visionery that opened the door to other training possibilities other than high volume.

I would like it in the future if u tried something like iv been doing. You know i use pretty much all compounds and dont use negative or static failure.

I think ud like it with ur training intensity!

davie

Yeah, I'll agree. I don't think Mentzer entirely wasted his time on constructing his routine. He did open people's minds. But he's still an asshole.

I'm glad your routine worked so well! I have to wonder if I'd experience the same results!

you should have gotten the picture when i was making fun of you for pressing 40 pound db's for shoulders and leg pressing 3 plates per side, that's pathetic weight.

You're right. That was pathetic. But I learned.

It's not Mentzer's fault. (I read years ago, from the first time he started to lift seriously, he progressed on what ever program he was doing, along with Ray...the chosen few ) It may have been, for Figg's, a leap of blind faith.  In a way that can be a good thing, seeing what works or does not, for them. At least Figg's had the courage to give it his all and try something very different. And man enough to admit  the shortcomings of that style of training, for him,anyway. Good Luck.

JaeJonna: Strength is abstract, muscles are real? Should not that be the other way around?

Thanks for the post. I actually didn't know that about Mentzer. He talked about his training like high volume was grossly counterproductive.

I liked how HIT made me feel afterwards but it doesn't help you to move any amount of weight for a set rep range. You're usually only moving that first weight x amount of times and then just a couple reps each drop after that. I say f**k it and just go with what feels good.

Yeah, when you complete an HIT workout you can't believe you exposed yourself to that kind of training intensity. And it's a great feeling. Always such a feeling of pride. But also, there's very little muscle soreness.

My chest is sore as a bitch today. I missed that.

No offense bro.......but the routine you did was so far from Mentzer;;s HIIT protocol that it was sickening.......I would duggest buying his books, read and research  here's a few examples of his routine that should have been put into place......

Workout 2 (sequal to chest/shoulder/tri routine).

BACK:
DeadLifts: First warm-up with a weight light enough to do 20reps but also enough to apply some pressure to the muscle you're about to stress.
1 Work set with your maximum weight for 6-10 reps from the floor.
FORM IS EVERYTHING.
Ex: I warmup with 225 x 10reps
Workset was with 405 x 10reps

Straight arm cable pulldowns -
Preexhaust with 1 set 6-10reps to failure.

No rest and straight to Widegrip Pulldowns -
Postive/negative/static
1st set - positive failure 6-10reps, use a spot with forced reps

1min rest
2nd set -increase weight - negative failure for 6-10 reps until you can no longer do another rep!

1min rest
Static hold - increase weight - 1rep and hold at contraction (spot should help you get weight in position) hold for up to 12 seconds if you can hold for more then up the weight.

Over to Seated Rows:
2 work sets to failure with strict form and a 3second negative.

TRAPS:
DB Shrugs -
Warmup
2sets to failure 6-10reps HEAVY with proper form and a 2second contraction at the top.

Behind the back Shrugs - 2sets 6-10reps.

BICEPS:
BB curls: 2sets to failure Heavy weight proper form no arching or bouncing.
Spider curls - Positive/Neg/Static
Post - 6-10reps one arm at a time, make it hurt.
Negative - 6-10 keep your spotter close and go until utter failure, arm should feel like it's going to explode
Static - hold until your face turns blue and a slow negative.

Done, now go eat and rest.

lol I followed his routine exactly as it was laid out. I downloaded Mentzer's HIT video and followed that exact routine as well.

[Fury]

hahahahah Figgs. But I bet you have more intensity than anyone else on this site!!!!!!!!! What's it like struggling to bench 185? hahahahahaha!

[pumpster]

Figgs no offense but to be that much of an HIT zealot with detailed training posts, followed almost immediately by hate for it and an attack on Mentzer without an equally detailed explanation of how you got from one extreme to another makes you look very, very unstable.   

Go ahead, enlighten us..your experience only helps providing some insights.

[figgs]

Figgs no offense but to be that much of an HIT zealot with detailed training posts, followed almost immediately by hate for it and an attack on Mentzer without an equally detailed explanation of how you got from one extreme to another makes you look very, very unstable.   

Go ahead, enlighten us..your experience only helps providing some insights.

It DID make me bigger!! But at the cost of strength! Sure, some people like tu_holmes wouldn't mind that, but I train for strength as well as size.

While on HIT, my training partner and I couldn't wait to return to our old routines to check out our new strength levels. But we were shocked when we found our lifts had gone down!

[pumpster]

It DID make me bigger!! But at the cost of strength! Sure, some people like tu_holmes wouldn't mind that, but I train for strength as well as size.

While on HIT, my training partner and I couldn't wait to return to our old routines to check out our new strength levels. But we were shocked when we found our lifts had gone down!

I don't know how you can be that critical if it made you bigger! And why didn't you mention the benefit earlier? Strength is fine but this site's called getbig. BTW as far as having "lost" strength i highly doubt it, at most you probably only need a few workouts to aclimate your system back to the type of lifting done before.

[figgs]

I don't know how you can be that critical if it made you bigger! And why didn't you mention the benefit earlier? Strength is fine but this site's called getbig. BTW as far as having "lost" strength i highly doubt it, at most you probably only need a few workouts to aclimate your system back to the type of lifting done before.

I sure hope you're right cuz my bench is down more than 20 pounds.

[slaveboy1980]

i told you figgs..hit is shit. it takes hard work with frequent training to get volume...volume4volume

[pumpster]

i told you figgs..hit is shit. it takes hard work with frequent training to get volume...volume4volume

These "i told you so" types are sooo predictable & boring. Basically they post only to say that there's one way-there's, when it's untrue. There are various ways to gain muscle, including HIT as Figgs just verified.

[Petrucci]

im just confused about all of this, because i think if figgs got BIGGER then the hit program WORKED!!!! if his goals was to get big WHILE getting stronger, then probably hit was not the option, but i think you should get happy after getting bigger on this trainning....

[slaveboy1980]

These "i told you so" types are sooo predictable & boring. Basically they post only to say that there's one way-there's, when it's untrue. There are various ways to gain muscle, including HIT as Figgs just verified.

im aware that it was a "I told you so post" but HIT is bullshit so it wasnt a surprise that it didnt work for figgs.

[pumpster]

im aware that it was a "I told you so post" but HIT is bullshit so it wasnt a surprise that it didnt work for figgs.

It can't be BS if he says he grew from it.

[davie]

It can't be BS if he says he grew from it.

Exactly

davie

[Swole0565]

I sure hope you're right cuz my bench is down more than 20 pounds.

Figgs?  You're apparently a young guy.  If I read correctly, you trained "HIT" style for only a couple of months.  If it only cost you a setback of 8 weeks and 20lbs on your bench, to discover you weren't gonna accomplish your goals, then count it a valuable lesson for a very small price...in the long run.

To his credit, Mentzer's style did it's job...FOR MENTZER!  He obviously benefitted physically from his training, and then he did what I think most of us envy...he made a good living from selling/ teaching such concepts, virtually unopposed!

Part of discovering what works, FOR YOU, is finding out what doesn't work, FOR YOU, and it sounds like you're a step closer to understanding yourself.  That's progress, that IMO, you owe, in part, to Mentzer.

Intensity and Volume are as similar and yet as opposite as the Right hand is from the Left.  It is, again, IMO, that when the two meet in the proper ratio for the INDIVIDUAL'S goals, that success will be found.

You seem to have a dramatic form of writing, and a charasmatic personality.  Don't pollute yourself, as some, by hating on a true pioneer of bodybuilding, just because his way turned out to not be your way.  

Best of luck!

[thewickedtruth]

Figgs?  You're apparently a young guy.  If I read correctly, you trained "HIT" style for only a couple of months.  If it only cost you a setback of 8 weeks and 20lbs on your bench, to discover you weren't gonna accomplish your goals, then count it a valuable lesson for a very small price...in the long run.

To his credit, Mentzer's style did it's job...FOR MENTZER!  He obviously benefitted physically from his training, and then he did what I think most of us envy...he made a good living from selling/ teaching such concepts, virtually unopposed!

Part of discovering what works, FOR YOU, is finding out what doesn't work, FOR YOU, and it sounds like you're a step closer to understanding yourself.  That's progress, that IMO, you owe, in part, to Mentzer.

Intensity and Volume are as similar and yet as opposite as the Right hand is from the Left.  It is, again, IMO, that when the two meet in the proper ratio for the INDIVIDUAL'S goals, that success will be found.

You seem to have a dramatic form of writing, and a charasmatic personality.  Don't pollute yourself, as some, by hating on a true pioneer of bodybuilding, just because his way turned out to not be your way.  

Best of luck!

Damn fine post right there!

[Swole0565]

Damn fine post right there!

Thanks, bro!  I'm just a guy who's been around this "iron addiction" long enough to see it from many perspectives. 

I've put my time in the gym.  I've sweat, puked, and bled enough to qualify myself as having an opinion and being able to substantiate my position.

I've kicked sand and have eaten crow.  I've learned, (often the hard way) that how you treat others is, indeed most often how you'll be treated....eventually! 

[figgs]

Figgs?  You're apparently a young guy.  If I read correctly, you trained "HIT" style for only a couple of months.  If it only cost you a setback of 8 weeks and 20lbs on your bench, to discover you weren't gonna accomplish your goals, then count it a valuable lesson for a very small price...in the long run.

To his credit, Mentzer's style did it's job...FOR MENTZER!  He obviously benefitted physically from his training, and then he did what I think most of us envy...he made a good living from selling/ teaching such concepts, virtually unopposed!

Part of discovering what works, FOR YOU, is finding out what doesn't work, FOR YOU, and it sounds like you're a step closer to understanding yourself.  That's progress, that IMO, you owe, in part, to Mentzer.

Intensity and Volume are as similar and yet as opposite as the Right hand is from the Left.  It is, again, IMO, that when the two meet in the proper ratio for the INDIVIDUAL'S goals, that success will be found.

You seem to have a dramatic form of writing, and a charasmatic personality.  Don't pollute yourself, as some, by hating on a true pioneer of bodybuilding, just because his way turned out to not be your way.  

Best of luck!

Your post has really had an effect on me. You're absolutely right. I went too far and let my initial reaction take control. There's no reason to go and piss on Mentzer's grave. lol that's fucked up!

Mentzer was an inspiration on me in other ways as well, and I can't forget that any longer than I temporarily have. I loved his writing and admired his intelligence and charisma. I can't forget that.

I did develop a greater knowledge on my own body because of this. Sure, high-intensity does work for me, but not Mentzer's exact routine. It's how I include high-intensity techniques into my traditional volume training which is what seems to work. And now I'm experimenting with gymnastics and how it effects my upper body strength. Again, I'm taking a risk since it may not work but as far as I can tell thus far, it works!

As you can tell, strength is a definite priority of mine. And the mistake I made was assuming that's the same for others. I did get bigger, and when I look in the mirror I thank Mentzer for that, but now it's a struggle to get my strength back. And that strength, I crave!!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! 

[davie]

Figgs?  You're apparently a young guy.  If I read correctly, you trained "HIT" style for only a couple of months.  If it only cost you a setback of 8 weeks and 20lbs on your bench, to discover you weren't gonna accomplish your goals, then count it a valuable lesson for a very small price...in the long run.

To his credit, Mentzer's style did it's job...FOR MENTZER!  He obviously benefitted physically from his training, and then he did what I think most of us envy...he made a good living from selling/ teaching such concepts, virtually unopposed!

Part of discovering what works, FOR YOU, is finding out what doesn't work, FOR YOU, and it sounds like you're a step closer to understanding yourself.  That's progress, that IMO, you owe, in part, to Mentzer.

Intensity and Volume are as similar and yet as opposite as the Right hand is from the Left.  It is, again, IMO, that when the two meet in the proper ratio for the INDIVIDUAL'S goals, that success will be found.

You seem to have a dramatic form of writing, and a charasmatic personality.  Don't pollute yourself, as some, by hating on a true pioneer of bodybuilding, just because his way turned out to not be your way.  

Best of luck!

Awesome post mate!!

Curious, as i guess uv been through many programs etc, what have u concluded works FOR YOU??

Im glad ur time in this sport has made u a better person, well done bro!!

davie

[pumpster]

Figgs?  You're apparently a young guy.  If I read correctly, you trained "HIT" style for only a couple of months.  If it only cost you a setback of 8 weeks and 20lbs on your bench, to discover you weren't gonna accomplish your goals, then count it a valuable lesson for a very small price...in the long run.

To his credit, Mentzer's style did it's job...FOR MENTZER!  He obviously benefitted physically from his training, and then he did what I think most of us envy...he made a good living from selling/ teaching such concepts, virtually unopposed!

Part of discovering what works, FOR YOU, is finding out what doesn't work, FOR YOU, and it sounds like you're a step closer to understanding yourself.  That's progress, that IMO, you owe, in part, to Mentzer.

Intensity and Volume are as similar and yet as opposite as the Right hand is from the Left.  It is, again, IMO, that when the two meet in the proper ratio for the INDIVIDUAL'S goals, that success will be found.

You seem to have a dramatic form of writing, and a charasmatic personality.  Don't pollute yourself, as some, by hating on a true pioneer of bodybuilding, just because his way turned out to not be your way.  

Best of luck!

Much as i said in earlier posts, and PM'd Figgs asking for and still waiting for an answer. Anyone who was so good in detailing his HIT training just recently should also let us know why there's been such an inexplicable shift, which is what i said to him.

[figgs]

Much as i said in earlier posts, and PM'd Figgs asking for and still waiting for an answer. Anyone who was so good in detailing his HIT training just recently should also let us know why there's been such an inexplicable shift, which is what i said to him.

The shift occured when I returned to my old routine and finally discovered my decreases in strength.

[Knives]

Did Mentzer even use HIT during his BBing career?

I was on Robby Robinson's website, and someone asked a question on the message board about HIT, and Robby said that as far as he observed, Mentzer trained using volume, the same way that everyone else did back in the day. 

[Moen]

Well if you didnt bench during your hit period its only logical that your bench has gone down, that's called 'cns efficiency' or better 'defficiency' in this case, your cns has to relearn the movement so to speak

[pumpster]

Well if you didnt bench during your hit period its only logical that your bench has gone down, that's called 'cns efficiency' or better 'defficiency' in this case, your cns has to relearn the movement so to speak

Exactly; translated it means Figgs freaked over 20 friggin lb., which makes no sense. Listen to the Charles Glass interview and you'll hear him say that too many are obsessed with numbers.

[alexxx]

Exactly; translated it means Figgs freaked over 20 friggin lb., which makes no sense. Listen to the Charles Glass interview and you'll hear him say that too many are obsessed with numbers.

It doesn't take much weight to make a muscle grow but Mentzer's system is flawed for a champion bodybuilder. For normal people it is ok because they are lazy and don't expect much.

[thewickedtruth]

The shift occured when I returned to my old routine and finally discovered my decreases in strength.

it's why I went back. I did HIT for 6 weeks as suggested and went back to see the "renewed increases" and discovered the only thing that increased was the amount of effort it took to get back to where I was. It is a badass style, don't get my wrong. I've never been in so much pain in my life when I was training as I was when I was on HIT. I learned from it and don't plan on using it again unless I'm just in teh mood for a little bit of pace change.

[figgs]

Exactly; translated it means Figgs freaked over 20 friggin lb., which makes no sense. Listen to the Charles Glass interview and you'll hear him say that too many are obsessed with numbers.

It's not just bench press that went down. Everything except calves went down. Calves actually went up!! THAT'S an accomplishment because my calves are my greatest genetic struggle.

I just finished my shoulder/bi workout. My military press is down 4 reps and my BB curl is down 20 pounds. You think I'm just freaking out? My biceps strength hasn't budged! I'm weaker than I was a year ago and my muscle memory isn't doing shit for me. Freaking out? haha this is fucking bullshit.