Author Topic: Making Martial Law Easier  (Read 1922 times)

Hugo Chavez

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Making Martial Law Easier
« on: February 20, 2007, 10:14:14 AM »
Editorial
Making Martial Law Easier
A disturbing recent phenomenon in Washington is that laws that strike to the heart of American democracy have been passed in the dead of night. So it was with a provision quietly tucked into the enormous defense budget bill at the Bush administration’s behest that makes it easier for a president to override local control of law enforcement and declare martial law.

The provision, signed into law in October, weakens two obscure but important bulwarks of liberty. One is the doctrine that bars military forces, including a federalized National Guard, from engaging in law enforcement. Called posse comitatus, it was enshrined in law after the Civil War to preserve the line between civil government and the military. The other is the Insurrection Act of 1807, which provides the major exemptions to posse comitatus. It essentially limits a president’s use of the military in law enforcement to putting down lawlessness, insurrection and rebellion, where a state is violating federal law or depriving people of constitutional rights.

The newly enacted provisions upset this careful balance. They shift the focus from making sure that federal laws are enforced to restoring public order. Beyond cases of actual insurrection, the president may now use military troops as a domestic police force in response to a natural disaster, a disease outbreak, terrorist attack or to any “other condition.”

Changes of this magnitude should be made only after a thorough public airing. But these new presidential powers were slipped into the law without hearings or public debate. The president made no mention of the changes when he signed the measure, and neither the White House nor Congress consulted in advance with the nation’s governors.

There is a bipartisan bill, introduced by Senators Patrick Leahy, Democrat of Vermont, and Christopher Bond, Republican of Missouri, and backed unanimously by the nation’s governors, that would repeal the stealthy revisions. Congress should pass it. If changes of this kind are proposed in the future, they must get a full and open debate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/19/opinion/19mon3.html?ei=5087%0A&em=&en=a62c4d8c568f28fc&ex=1172034000&pagewanted=print

ribonucleic

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Re: Making Martial Law Easier
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2007, 10:27:37 AM »
Let's see...

National ID card
secret No-Fly lists
warrantless phonetaps
criminalization of dissent
legalization of torture
elimination of habeas corpus
domestic internment camps

Oh yeah, and police confiscating legal handguns [remember the unpleasantness during Hurricane Katrina?]

Anyone starting to detect a pattern here?

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Making Martial Law Easier
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2007, 10:30:44 AM »
Oh no... nonono... nothing to see here... no pattern ;D  Move along, these are not the droids you're looking for :P

ribonucleic

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Re: Making Martial Law Easier
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2007, 11:41:36 AM »
The Fear is going mainstream now...

What Would You Do If Bush Declared Martial Law?
by Jane Smiley

An editorial in the New York Times yesterday pointed out, for those of us who didn't realize it, that the Bush administration had inserted two provisions into last October's defense budget bill that would make it easier to declare martial law in the US. Senators Leahy and Bond have introduced a bill to repeal these changes, and it is important that voters keep track of this bill and hold their Congresspeople to account on it. Along with several other measures the Bush adminstration has proposed, the introduction of these changes amounts, not to an attack on the Congress and the balance of power, but to a particular and concerted attack on the citizens of the nation. Bush is laying the legal groundwork to repeal even the appearance of democracy. Any senator who does not vote in favor of the Leahy/Bond repeal of these provisions should promptly be recalled by his or her constituents.

That said, and without underestimating the seriousness of these provisions, I have to point out that with this as with other legal maneuvers like the Military Commissions Act, I have to wonder who Bush, Cheney, Rove, etc. think they are governing. Were they planning to spring these things on us? One day, we were supposed to wake up, and martial law would be declared, and we were supposed to actually pay attention to it? Where are they keeping the troops who were going to patrol our neighborhoods? Who was it who was going to disarm the population? Who was their base going to be, when they sought public support for martial law? Who was going to round us up and where were they going to put us?

It is in these sorts of things that the byzantine thinking and strange psychological make-up of the Bushies comes out. Let's say that Bush imagines (with Gonzalez and Cheney) the enhanced joys of bringing the war home. No longer is his command "over there"--it is now "over here". He can go out onto the White House lawn and issue edicts, and then perhaps he can be driven around Washington, or over into Virginia, and watch civilians obey his orders in a way that the Iraqis seem unwilling to do. I am assuming that the purpose of such an exercise would be to renew and intensify the now-diminishing frisson Bush gets from feeling himself the boss of all he surveys. But we all know it would not work. Very few people believe Bush or take his needs and desires seriously any more. Bush, or his keepers, know this, too, or they would not have introduced these provisions secretly. There was a time, when the nation was in a panic, when he could purloin things openly, and no one dared defy him. That was the appropriate occasion for these martial law changes. Now, or even last fall, was not that time. The Republicans must have suspected that to make such provisions known would have meant jeopardizing an iffy mid-term election even more than it already was, so they hid them. But the fact that they hid them makes them a hundred times more suspect--are the Bushies planning a coup after all?

And if they are planning a coup, what's the goal? Who is going to fall in line? Arnold Schwarzenegger, my very own governor? Chet Culver? Kathleen Sebelius? Eliot Spitzer? Since the US is a corporatocracy, would we then all be forced to work for $2.00 per hour? Give up all workplace benefits? Attend the religious services of our choice on Sunday? Devote even more of our tax dollars to the war machine and the oil machine? Haven't they taken everything already? Try as I might, I cannot imagine martial law in the US, except as something the population would agree to under threat from...from whom? Correct me if I am wrong (I know you will), but the last time martial law was declared was during the Civil War, and Americans, though the threats to the Union were profound and omnipresent, didn't like it then. I can't even imagine what would happen now.

Our armed forces can't subdue Iraq. I can't imagine that Bush thinks they could subdue New England or the West Coast, much less the whole US. To imagine himself commanding such a thing seems like magical thinking at its most obvious. So, what would you did if Bush declared martial law, laugh?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-smiley/what-would-you-do-if-bush_b_41674.html

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Re: Making Martial Law Easier
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2007, 11:49:02 AM »
No.  IMO these are simply control mechanisms in place should any *really big stories* come out which shake support for the current system.  If there were 300 million Alex Jones in the country, those in power might need such control.

Mowever, the powers that be (globalists, corps, what have you) would take a hit in steady income should America transform into a police state.  People stop working, they stop paying taxes, and the big guys stop earning.  Aside from the fact it might get messy or it might not, the millions they put into prisons (see ya there berserker and ribo!) would be a burden and no longer earners.  As long as we're earning and playing along, IMO they won't.  Plus as a hard right neo, Bush does everything he can to get legal justification for abuse, and the dems (see the 2007 Restoring the constutition act designed to end the Mil Comm Act of 06) are working to level it out.  It's checks and balances.

In another 100 years, yes, I believe they might try some insane shit.  But the fact that Bush nearly lost power in 2004 (albeit he cheated in Ohio to keep his job), and there was no major power play before that election, makes me think they're not gonna shake things up.  Who knows tho.  The only hope is that with things like this getting coverage in mainstream media, the dems (and the swing voters) get enough fire under their ass to restore checks, and the moderate repubs speak up if only to keep their jobs with constituents.

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: Making Martial Law Easier
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2007, 11:58:50 AM »
Ok I have my boots on now...

1.  Liberal democrats have been the biggest enemy to personal freedom over the last 50 years.  Why?  Because they do not recongnise the right of citizens to carry and possess arms.  This was the very amendment designed to protect the people from a tyrannical government.  But I didn't hear you pussies complaining about all the anti gun legislation under clinton or any state under democratic leadership.

2.  Hmm... I wonder how much worse the Katrina aftermath would've been if the military COULDN"T have been used to restore order.  A close friend of mine in the Army went down there for riot control and ended up shooting 4 people in the first day.  But, of course, I didn't hear you complain then either.  Or maybe if the president didn't have that power and the military couldn't have been used then it would've given liberals more death and chaos to blame on the president.

In other words, to the informed, your attempts to blame anything and everyhting on this president are pretty shallow.

240 is Back

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Re: Making Martial Law Easier
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2007, 12:07:12 PM »
Ok I have my boots on now...

1.  Liberal democrats have been the biggest enemy to personal freedom over the last 50 years.  Why?  Because they do not recongnise the right of citizens to carry and possess arms.  This was the very amendment designed to protect the people from a tyrannical government.  But I didn't hear you pussies complaining about all the anti gun legislation under clinton or any state under democratic leadership.

2.  Hmm... I wonder how much worse the Katrina aftermath would've been if the military COULDN"T have been used to restore order.  A close friend of mine in the Army went down there for riot control and ended up shooting 4 people in the first day.  But, of course, I didn't hear you complain then either.  Or maybe if the president didn't have that power and the military couldn't have been used then it would've given liberals more death and chaos to blame on the president.

In other words, to the informed, your attempts to blame anything and everyhting on this president are pretty shallow.

I've carried a gun every day for nine years.  And I see changing the Constitution as a pretty big threat.

Yes, Clinton was trash when it came to guns.

But you haven't given your opinion on BUSH.  Please share with the class.

240 is Back

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Re: Making Martial Law Easier
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2007, 12:15:32 PM »
Brix can't comprehend the martial law stuff.

So, he points out something Clinton did 12 years ago.

240 is Back

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Re: Making Martial Law Easier
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2007, 12:18:34 PM »
Maybe he should take his Israeli flag avatar and join his family back in the Middle East if he hates our Constitution and Bill of Rights so much?

No, he feels that he can do more damage here.

he actually thinks what he's saying is right - not because it's based in law - but because "Bush says so".


Brixtonbulldog

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Re: Making Martial Law Easier
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2007, 12:19:06 PM »
Why do you do that?  Were all Americans here.  Support Bush 100% or your Anti American.  No one here said the Democrats were good, your an asshole.  I have more guns in my closet right now than you own pussie and members of my family have elected more Republican presidents than you can name so don't direct that shit at me.

Yeah right... I have 46 guns in my house.  You sure about that?

I will direct "that shit" at you.

ribonucleic

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Re: Making Martial Law Easier
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2007, 12:19:30 PM »
Liberal democrats have been the biggest enemy to personal freedom over the last 50 years.  Why?  Because they do not recongnise the right of citizens to carry and possess arms....to the informed, your attempts to blame anything and everyhting on this president are pretty shallow.

"New NRA Campaign Asks Lawmakers to Pledge Not to Confiscate Guns in Times of Crisis"

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=1972662&page=1

'Pretty please don't confiscate our guns!"  :'(

This was May 17, 2006. Republican White House. Republican Congress. Republican Senate.

240 is Back

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Re: Making Martial Law Easier
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2007, 12:21:29 PM »
Wow.  Republicans confiscated guns.  I never made that connection.

I am sure Clinton was to blame in some way. 

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: Making Martial Law Easier
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2007, 01:24:56 PM »
"New NRA Campaign Asks Lawmakers to Pledge Not to Confiscate Guns in Times of Crisis"

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=1972662&page=1

'Pretty please don't confiscate our guns!"  :'(

This was May 17, 2006. Republican White House. Republican Congress. Republican Senate.


Please... Chuck Schumer alone has done more to wipe out gun ownership than any republican.

240 is Back

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Re: Making Martial Law Easier
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2007, 03:56:24 PM »
Please... Chuck Schumer alone has done more to wipe out gun ownership than any republican.

monster thread derailment.

you still haven't addressed martial law.

you support it, dont you?

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: Making Martial Law Easier
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2007, 06:24:04 PM »
monster thread derailment.

you still haven't addressed martial law.

you support it, dont you?

I didn't derail anything.   Read the above posts num nuts.

I don't support martial law (as in I don't support it's use for anything and everything) but I do support it's use in certain situations and in certain areas.  So far I haven't had any issue with the criteria necassary to declare it and the way bush has employed it. 

OneBigMan

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Re: Making Martial Law Easier
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2007, 04:01:52 AM »
Whether you like it or not, martial law is going to be a reality depending on what state you live in. All the early talk about who's running for president is meaningless because the current administration is not going to allow the democrats to win the presidency.

headhuntersix

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Re: Making Martial Law Easier
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2007, 07:34:17 AM »
Martial Law ::)..well as for what I'd do. I'd get on my tank and roll into KC to impose it... :P. It all comes down to the guys with the guns and the guys without the guns...and right now i gotta big gun. THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Bush will be gone in two years. Thats when u libs should worry about ur rights.
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