Is the desire for the US to lose in Iraq representative of American Liberals?

[OzmO]

i hope not,, but i wouldnt put it past them,, why else are the soldiers not provided with better equipment? whats the new budjet plan 90 something million that the libs dont want to pass. thats a lot of safety equipment, body armour,bomb proof truck armour, and on and on that may not be provided to the soldiers

maybe the dems won't pass it cause it's a stupid idea.  Maybe BUSH needs to follow the ISG instead of throwing too little money at a much bigger problem.

[OzmO]

'Losing' is your interpretation of events.

We toppled Saddam brilliantly.  Uber, use of highly mechanized co-ordinate warfare at lightning speed.

But after 4 years it's still not safe to go to the local market because BUSH and Rumsfield in their brilliance laid an egg.

Now if we leave, we lost for sure.  But while we are there, we aren't winning right now. 

[BRUCE]

We toppled Saddam brilliantly.  Uber, use of highly mechanized co-ordinate warfare at lightning speed.

But after 4 years it's still not safe to go to the local market because BUSH and Rumsfield in their brilliance laid an egg.

Now if we leave, we lost for sure.  But while we are there, we aren't winning right now. 

Not a bad post, but I think the coalition is making positive ground - although I do concede at times ground has been lost.  The true test of America's involvement in Iraq will be an ideological battle to convince young Muslim men worldwide that the jihad is an archaic misinterpretation of the Koran.  This may well be the most difficult and important task for the governments to come in America, and particularly Europe, who may already be neck deep in religious hatred.

[OKMike]

There is no win or lose for BUSH.  he's 2nd term  lol.   

The difference between Clinton and BUSH is that BUSH ALREADY MADE A BIG MISTAKE.  Clinton didn't.  BUSH made his own party look so bad that he they lost both houses in a time of war.  how pathetic.  he did that all on his own.  dems had nothing to do with it.

Clinton giving defense secrets to the Chinese wasn't a mistake?

[OzmO]

Clinton giving defense secrets to the Chinese wasn't a mistake?

Please elaborate 

[OzmO]

Not a bad post, but I think the coalition is making positive ground - although I do concede at times ground has been lost.  The true test of America's involvement in Iraq will be an ideological battle to convince young Muslim men worldwide that the jihad is an archaic misinterpretation of the Koran.  This may well be the most difficult and important task for the governments to come in America, and particularly Europe, who may already be neck deep in religious hatred.

Good luck trying to convince these people.  It's the poor rural areas that breed most of these radical combined with people who's relatives were victimized in the cities.

So you think the present approach of "convincing"  will ever work over plain ruthless brutality that Saddam was so good at?

[Thin Lizzy]

Do you believe Rib is indicative of most liberals? 

From what I've seen, he is stereotypical of  left-wing kook bloggers: overeducated/underemployed, intellectual elitist, can't concede a well-made point, looks to downgrade and blame America at opportunity, Marxist/Socialist (loves Chavez & Castro), obsessive hatred of George Bush, spend days in Starbucks writing bad poetry on a napkin.

[240 is Back]

From what I've seen, he is stereotypical of  left-wing kook bloggers: overeducated/underemployed, intellectual elitist, can't concede a well-made point, looks to downgrade and blame America at opportunity, Marxist/Socialist (loves Chavez & Castro), obsessive hatred of George Bush, spend days in Starbucks writing bad poetry on a napkin.

And how would you so succinctly describe the other extreme, the hateful neoconservative?

[ieffinhatecardio]

From what I've seen, he is stereotypical of  left-wing kook bloggers: overeducated/underemployed, intellectual elitist, can't concede a well-made point, looks to downgrade and blame America at opportunity, Marxist/Socialist (loves Chavez & Castro), obsessive hatred of George Bush, spend days in Starbucks writing bad poetry on a napkin.

LOL, the poetry quip was pretty funny.

Although the "can't concede a well-made point" statement was interesting because I've thought the same exact thing about some far right conservatives.

[OzmO]

From what I've seen, he is stereotypical of  left-wing kook bloggers: overeducated/underemployed, intellectual elitist, can't concede a well-made point, looks to downgrade and blame America at opportunity, Marxist/Socialist (loves Chavez & Castro), obsessive hatred of George Bush, spend days in Starbucks writing bad poetry on a napkin.

Ok, so answer the question:  IS Rib indicative of most liberals?

Because i love how many conservatives and liberals point out an extremist view and in turn stereo type a political ideology just to make a point when in reality it's unrealistic.

So answer the questioin.

[Thin Lizzy]

And how would you so succinctly describe the other extreme, the hateful neoconservative?

I describe that type as a "Tightass"

I see myself as a South Park Conservative: Somewhat socially liberal but wants nothing to do with the left.

That said, I've checked out both right-wing and left-wing blogs. I've seen way more hatred on left-wing blogs.

[Thin Lizzy]

Ok, so answer the question:  IS Rib indicative of most liberals?

To be honest, I can't say for sure. I don't really talk politics very much at work or in real life social situations as doing so tends to create bad feelings without solving anything.

[militarymuscle69]

The sooner we acknowledge our defeat and leave, the fewer people will die.

That's my idea of avoiding harm.

We haven't been defeated.

[militarymuscle69]

I'm curious what you or any conservative on this board would say if a liberal member posted that conservative politicians wanted Americans to die to further their agenda.


Your post illustrates perfectly what I find so incredible about the chasm between conservatives and liberals. You're actually intimating that politicians want soldiers to die. Do you really despise liberals that much?

At least from my point of view talking about displeasure with this war and with Bush in no way translates to wanting soldiers to die. To make that leap is insane.

Every liberal post in here implies that bush wants soldiers to die to better support his greed for oil. If the Dems defund the war (and they won't) that would be actual proof driven that the money they didn't give led to a shortage in saftey equipment, leading to more deaths.

[OzmO]

To be honest, I can't say for sure. I don't really talk politics very much at work or in real life social situations as doing so tends to create bad feelings without solving anything.

Perhaps you should then research it a bit.  Perhaps before you stereotype entire political ideologies as many do, talking to ordinary dems and liberals, reading articles, listening to the news stations etc.  you might have a more balance and realistic view of whats really going on.

Because as true as Rib is to his beliefs, which i can respect and not agree with , he is not indicative of most liberals. 

You see, Lizzy, what i see most people do, is mis-read the message and make complaints/points based on these extreme propaganda laced views.   

FOR example:   The liberals desire for the USA to lose in Iraq.

[OzmO]

Every liberal post in here implies that bush wants soldiers to die to better support his greed for oil. If the Dems defund the war (and they won't) that would be actual proof driven that the money they didn't give led to a shortage in saftey equipment, leading to more deaths.

Yes and no.  I don't think it's about the money, or the sending of troops.

  It's about "sending only 21,000 and 93 billion" as a stupid plan.


Why not listen tot he ISG?

Why not listen to Powell?

Since we've already made a huge mistake (iraq war)  why try to patch it up with scotch tape?

[ribonucleic]

We haven't been defeated.

3,419 coalition fatalities - not counting post-tour PTSD suicides.

Tens of thousands maimed for life.

Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians dead.

Hundreds of thousands more refugees.

Half a trillion dollars squandered.

The country in a civil war.

And Iran poised to dominate the region.

This is your idea of "victory"?

[ieffinhatecardio]

Every liberal post in here implies that bush wants soldiers to die to better support his greed for oil. If the Dems defund the war (and they won't) that would be actual proof driven that the money they didn't give led to a shortage in saftey equipment, leading to more deaths.

I don't think they imply that Bush wants soldiers to die, I think they imply that soldiers dying is the outcome of his actions. I don't ever remember reading a post stating that Bush wanted soldiers to die.

Yet, I've read two recent posts from conservatives that stated liberals "want" soldiers to die.  There is a HUGE difference.

[OzmO]

I don't think they imply that Bush wants soldiers to die, I think they imply that soldiers dying is the outcome of his actions. I don't ever remember reading a post stating that Bush wanted soldiers to die.

Yet, I've read two recent posts from conservatives that stated liberals "want" soldiers to die.  There is a HUGE difference.

Classic example of:

 mis-reading the message and making complaints/points based on  extreme propaganda laced views.

[militarymuscle69]

3,419 coalition fatalities - not counting post-tour PTSD suicides.

Tens of thousands maimed for life.

Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians dead.

Hundreds of thousands more refugees.

Half a trillion dollars squandered.

The country in a civil war.

And Iran poised to dominate the region.

This is your idea of "victory"?

It is neither a victory or defeat yet.

[militarymuscle69]

I don't think they imply that Bush wants soldiers to die, I think they imply that soldiers dying is the outcome of his actions. I don't ever remember reading a post stating that Bush wanted soldiers to die.

Yet, I've read two recent posts from conservatives that stated liberals "want" soldiers to die.  There is a HUGE difference.

I didn't say they said that, I said they implied that he doesn't care because he is getting oil.....

[OzmO]

It is neither a victory or defeat yet.

true. 

[Camel Jockey]

I describe that type as a "Tightass"

I see myself as a South Park Conservative: Somewhat socially liberal but wants nothing to do with the left.

So you go around accusing the left of stereotyping soliders, but yo have no problem stereotyping an entire political movement? You don't even know ribo but you say he's this and he's that. Umm, you know just because he is critic of the war doesn't mean he hates america or soliders. Find me a post of his where he badmouths soliders or says something about the american people. If you can't, then maybe you should shut the fuck up.

That said, I've checked out both right-wing and left-wing blogs. I've seen way more hatred on left-wing blogs.

More bullshit. If anything liberals argue to the point.

btw Matt Stone and Trey Parker are funny but they don't know shit about complex political issues.

[ribonucleic]

You don't even know ribo but you say he's this and he's that. Umm, you know just because he is critic of the war doesn't mean he hates america or soliders. Find me a post of his where he badmouths soliders or says something about the american people.

I have in fact gone on record as saying that we are the bad guys in world affairs.

And I do in fact condemn the role that the American military continues to play in spreading suffering throughout the world. Although, in my righteous indignation, I have probably let my antipathy slop over onto the servicemen more than they deserve.

[militarymuscle69]

I have in fact gone on record as saying that we are the bad guys in world affairs.

And I do in fact condemn the role that the American military continues to play in spreading suffering throughout the world. Although, in my righteous indignation, I have probably let my antipathy slop over onto the servicemen more than they deserve.

I love it, you fucking idiot libs jump on the band wagon of defending RIBO without realizing he readily admits he hates the US and the military!!!!