Author Topic: Dan and Bob, regarding Triple H's comments about the Bret Hart incident ...  (Read 9499 times)

mrsirjojo

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It's real to me Dammit!



Has there ever been a bigger virgin than the guy in that vid?

xpac2

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Dan18

Scooby

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Here are the three indisputable facts then:

1) Bret Hart initially refused to honor his employer's request.

2) Bret Hart later accepted his boss' request with certain stipulations.

3) His boss then broke that promise in front of millions.

BTW, delusional would be if Bret Hart believed he was wrestling for real, and that he was his character. Just because he was an actor doesn't mean he can't be a real hero to his fans. In short, it is not delusional to say "no" to your boss, just a dismissable offense.

Everyone seems to be forgetting one minor event that took place elsewhere during all of the WWF goings on that lead to Vince changing everything...

At WCW Eric Bischoff was leaking the word that the WWF Champion was coming over to WCW... as soon as that leaked and got back to Vince there was no way he could let Bret leave as the Champ.  So ultimately Bishoff screwed Bret for media buzz.

Chick... weren't you the American Gladiator named BLUTO or was it FLOUNDER?

ribonucleic

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Chick... weren't you the American Gladiator named BLUTO or was it FLOUNDER?



 ;D

Chick

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Everyone seems to be forgetting one minor event that took place elsewhere during all of the WWF goings on that lead to Vince changing everything...

At WCW Eric Bischoff was leaking the word that the WWF Champion was coming over to WCW... as soon as that leaked and got back to Vince there was no way he could let Bret leave as the Champ.  So ultimately Bishoff screwed Bret for media buzz.

Chick... weren't you the American Gladiator named BLUTO or was it FLOUNDER?

Close...it was originally "Loosen", but they changed it to "Titan" at the last minute..!

Don't you have some lame-ass booth workers to fire?

dantelis

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As a paid employee of the WWE, you are expected to perform and follow a  scripted outline of a match/ series of matches against an opponent. PERIOD.


That's what worries me about Triple H's and your push to make the IFBB more like the WWE.  Replace the WWE with IFBB in the quote above, and you are then condoning bodybuilders purposely losing contests or accepting judging based on a popularity contest created solely to bring in larger audiences.  I do agree that bodybuilding has become too freakish (especially on the female BB side) and needs to bring in more people outside of the hardcore BB fans.  I don't think we should push for it to emulate the entertainment industry niche that is pro "wrestling".

Chick

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That's what worries me about Triple H's and your push to make the IFBB more like the WWE.  Replace the WWE with IFBB in the quote above, and you are then condoning bodybuilders purposely losing contests or accepting judging based on a popularity contest created solely to bring in larger audiences.  I do agree that bodybuilding has become too freakish (especially on the female BB side) and needs to bring in more people outside of the hardcore BB fans.  I don't think we should push for it to emulate the entertainment industry niche that is pro "wrestling".

No need to worry, my push to bring up the entertainment value to pro BB, will in no way jeopardize the integrity of it still being a competition...neither one has to be compromised to compliment one another.

My new column in Flex magazine (Bobservations) details out some of my opinions on how this can be achieved...check it out.

ribonucleic

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My new column in Flex magazine (Bobservations) details out some of my opinions on how this can be achieved...check it out.

I hope your recommendations are sound.

Otherwise you'll suffer Bobloquy!

Scooby

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No need to worry, my push to bring up the entertainment value to pro BB, will in no way jeopardize the integrity of it still being a competition...neither one has to be compromised to compliment one another.

My new column in Flex magazine (Bobservations) details out some of my opinions on how this can be achieved...check it out.

Wow what an original idea... adding entertainment to bodybuilding.  Maybe bodybuilders can have alter ego's like "Batman", "Iron Warrior"... oh wait a minute Vince already did that it was called the WBF, and just like the WWF it was "real" too.

Bobservations... HAHAHahahahahahaha, things that make you go Hmmmm. Go polish your belt.

MCWAY

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Everyone seems to be forgetting one minor event that took place elsewhere during all of the WWF goings on that lead to Vince changing everything...

At WCW Eric Bischoff was leaking the word that the WWF Champion was coming over to WCW... as soon as that leaked and got back to Vince there was no way he could let Bret leave as the Champ.  So ultimately Bishoff screwed Bret for media buzz.

Chick... weren't you the American Gladiator named BLUTO or was it FLOUNDER?

The rumors had already begun to spread prior to Survivor Series '97 (as was evident by the sign and posters in the crowd). McMahon was caught between a rock and a hard place, as the main event for was Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels (HBK) for the WWF title.

McMahon knows that Hart won't do the match, if he has to lose the title to HBK. But, if Hart is still champion after the pay-per-view, Eric Bischoff and team WCW are going LIVE on Monday Nitro and, as early can they can get on the air, they'd announce that they just bought the WWF Champion. McMahon had already been embarrassed twice before in 1995: 1) Lex Luger's appearance on Nitro, the night after he was at WWF SummerSlam; 2) Madusa Micelli (aka Alundra Blayze) debuting on WCW's show, still wearing the WWF Women's championship belt, which she later threw in a trash can, ala Riddick Bowe.

There was no easy answer for the WWF owner; but one thing was certain: Come hell or high water, Bret Hart ain't leaving Survivor Series as World Wrestling Federation Champion, PERIOD!!!

What saved McMahon and, ultimately the World Wrestling Federation (now known as World Wrestling Entertainment) is that the following night on RAW, Jim Ross interviewed his boss on the situation. Rather than lie about it, McMahon actually told the truth. But, he did so, speaking "wrestling-ese", if you will.

He mentioned that there is a "time-honored tradition in the wresting business" that Bret Hart didn't follow. And, he agreed with some loyal WWF fans that "Bret Hart sold out!". McMahon continued, "...and, it's not a big deal, because I helped him do it." He stated that his responsibility was to the other wrestlers in his company.

The "time-honored tradition" (as explained by several now-defunct wrestling sites) is simply this: When you leave a federation to go to another one, you lose in a way that puts the other guy over. That's especially true if you happen to be a particular organization's world champion.

Though many fans were angry initially at McMahon, they can't deny the fruits that came of it:
- The "Mr. McMahon character,
- The development of "Stone Cold" Steve Austin
- The Austin-McMahon feud, which ultimately helped the WWF regain its place at the top wrestling company.
- The emergence of The Rock and Triple H

None of that would have happened, had Bret Hart simply followed the "time-honored tradition". To this day, wrestling fans are still split on the issue. Some feel that McMahon did the unforgivable and shafted the Hitman, causing a loss of much respect from certain wrestlers and fans; others feel that Hart should have just dropped the belt to Michaels at Survivor Series and been done with it, as his fan base would have followed him to WCW, anyway, with no incident and no controversy on which the WWF could build.

It's been nearly ten years since the "Survivor Series/Montreal Screwjob" went down. Yet, to this day, it's still a hot topic of discussion in sports-entertainment.

chainsaw

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No...his role was whatever the storyline dictated it was...hero one month, heel the next. What do you mean "damaging someones image like that..."?

IT'S A ROLE....IT'S MAKE BELIEVE ...LIKE AN ACTOR PLAYING THE VILLIAN

Can't spell it out any easier....
Dude, spell it out like it was.  They tagged him out earlier than he was supposed to.  They did it behinjd his back!  Not to mention fella, that the Hart FAMILY helped put Vince and his DAD "see the silver spoon?" into Vince jrs mouth by doing good business for 30 yrs before that incident.  Come on Chick, you're right in some respecets, but couldn't Vince have bended, and at least said it had to be lost in the USA?  Would that have hurt pretty little Vince.  WWF even KILLED OWEN HEART for Chisttt sakes while he was following the story line.

Wake up Chick!!!!
Most are all show no go!

Chick

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See the above post...sums it up pretty good.

Bret was looking out for his own best interests, as Vince was loking out for his company's best interests...

Owen died in a tragic accident...it had nothing to do with anything else.

scottallen

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Because you're weird?
  lol thats funny shit bob! lol  Bob is the iceman... cool under fire.  monster stud...you debate very well. 
Do you have abs? Why not?

MCWAY

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Dude, spell it out like it was.  They tagged him out earlier than he was supposed to.  They did it behinjd his back!  Not to mention fella, that the Hart FAMILY helped put Vince and his DAD "see the silver spoon?" into Vince jrs mouth by doing good business for 30 yrs before that incident.  Come on Chick, you're right in some respecets, but couldn't Vince have bended, and at least said it had to be lost in the USA?  Would that have hurt pretty little Vince.  WWF even KILLED OWEN HEART for Chisttt sakes while he was following the story line.

Wake up Chick!!!!


I explained it earlier. One more time, McMahon did NOT want WCW to buy his World Champion (or have Eric Bischoff brag that WCW had done so on Monday Nitro). That's exactly what would have happened had Bret Hart left Montreal with the title.

The main event was set. There was NO TURNING BACK!!! Hart had to lose the belt at Survivor Series, period.

wes mantooth

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I explained it earlier. One more time, McMahon did NOT want WCW to buy his World Champion (or have Eric Bischoff brag that WCW had done so on Monday Nitro). That's exactly what would have happened had Bret Hart left Montreal with the title.

The main event was set. There was NO TURNING BACK!!! Hart had to lose the belt at Survivor Series, period.

that pretty much sums it all up right there. 100% fact. vince mcmahon and the WWE (wwf at the time) did what they did to save face in a hostile industry. WCW was winning the ratings war, this was a battle that the WWE won. bret hart wanted to save face at the end of his career with the WWE, but so did vince for the sake of his business.

Vince B

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Vince McMahon behaves like a stooge on his shows. I agree with Vince Goodrum here. What is the test of truth here re who said what? There is none. So this is a waste of time debating.

Seems to me the IFBB should change its name to IFBBE to duplicate the entertainment aspect of the sport. Clearly some representatives in the IFBB are playing roles and following scripts.

wes mantooth

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What is the test of truth here re who said what? There is none. So this is a waste of time debating.


audio recordings of some of the actual events as well as interviews with the various individuals that were involved...

other than that, there is no evidence ::)

tu_holmes

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Don't forget that Bret & Shawn hated eachother in real life too. Either way Bret got the last laugh. In WCW he made 3.7 million per year in his 3 year stay there. Way more then he made with Vince.

PB

He also got another concussion by Goldberg which started his downward spiral... next thing you know... a stroke.

gtbro1

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I can appreciate where you're coming from, but the bottom line is, as a professional wrestler you are employed as an entertainer/ wrestler and follow a story line as a particular character.

Bret took being the "champ" too seriously, and forgot that is was just a role...even under his own name. The "Hitman" character was just that...a role.

As a paid employee of the WWE, you are expected to perform and follow a  scripted outline of a match/ series of matches against an opponent. PERIOD.

Even in your post, you ask me if I would willfully accept "defaming America, etc...."  Bro...IT'S A SHOW, YOU'RE PLAYING A PART..IT'S NOT REAL.

As HHH said..it's no different than playing a role in a movie or TV series and being told that your character is going to turn on his friends.....as the actor not wanting to do it for fear of what his fans may think of him.

Bret Hart got caught up with his character and blured the line between make believe and reality...

   WTF?? Bob,are you suggesting that Pro Wrestling isn't real?.... :(.... :'( that sucks.

marcie999

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And instead of being remembered for his matches, and all that he had accomplished as a wrester, he gets lumped with being remembered for being SCREWED by Vince Mcmahon and Shawn Michaels, in Canada
forever.

Thats damage. They messed with his reputation when he had done all he could as a wrestler to ensure some integrity. Being Brett Hart meant something. There are rules, and these people knew the rules which makes what they did worse.
 Yes Brett was arrogant and all that but they all are. He didnt deserve what they did, and in light of him not being able to wrestle long enough afterwards to overcome it and create a new successful run due to Goldbergs kick to the head, he is stuck with it.

And Triple H knows how screwed he would ever be if he doesnt tow the line and this is a wrestling company that scripts every word their wrestlers say. Anything coming out of his mouth is suspect.


nuff said.
Ripleeeyyyyyyyyyyy

onlyme

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Bret Hart just moved to Kona, HI.  He was in the gym the other day.  I didn't see him.

Vince B

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I prefer to watch Jerry Springer over the wrestling. At least the fights on Springer are a bit more spontaneous and fair dinkum. I remember the time Stone Cold Steve Austin poured concrete into McMahon's convertible. It is all show business and no one knows what is real and what staged anymore. The result is that we don't believe anything anymore. Well, except for the 150,000,000 Americans under 100 IQ, these people believe everything they see on TV.

mrsirjojo

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Bret was looking out for his own best interests, as Vince was looking out for his company's best interests...

It's true that they were looking out for their own interests. That's every person's right. But if "looking out for one's own interests" entails breaking one's word, it shouldn't be passed off as "just business". It should be called what it is. A lowly act, and a betrayal. Didn't men used to be only as good as their word?

xpac2

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I prefer to watch Jerry Springer over the wrestling. At least the fights on Springer are a bit more spontaneous and fair dinkum. I remember the time Stone Cold Steve Austin poured concrete into McMahon's convertible. It is all show business and no one knows what is real and what staged anymore. The result is that we don't believe anything anymore. Well, except for the 150,000,000 Americans under 100 IQ, these people believe everything they see on TV.

Thanks captain obvious. By the IQ level of your "posts" it seems you lost touch with reality years ago.

HUGEPECS

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acting still remains a key thing for a WWE athlete. otherwise, we would have lots of pro bodybuilders in the Ring
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