Sure there’s evidence for God
Before we get to that, you need to define God.
(you’re replying with evidence)
I'm just pointing out the irrational and absurd foundation of Christianity.
but people just dismiss that evidence out of hand because it doesn't comport with their subjective presuppositions about "what life should be" or “how science is done”.
Can you please point to this "evidence" you speak of?
God's created humanity self-identifying as their own little gods accountable only to their own subjective standards. Much like the gender issue. Sure you can call yourself a woman but your biology, your genetics, clearly indicates you're a man. In short, calling yourself a transgender woman, a non binary entity, a gender fluid entity or a toaster doesn't make you any of those.
I'm uninterested in examining this topic in depth (
diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks and all that) and while I do believe the generics are certainly dispositive vis-à-vis one's biological gender, several studies that utilize functional MRI have highlighted structural differences in the brain of biological males that identify as transgender. See
here if interested.
Still I understand what you're suggesting, but what the argument lacks is recognition of sin, our accountability for that sin and God's righteous justice and judgement.
Assuming that the Christian God exists, his justice can't be righteous if he has set a standard for us that is, by his own admission, impossible for us to meet. And if he insists on enforcing that standard, his judgement is suspect.
What are Christians saved from?
The wrath of the being to whom they promise fealty, and the eternal fire and pain he promises in the book you claim contains his eternal and inerrant word?
God's judgement for our offenses against his law and the eternal separation from him that would follow.
Oh boy, there we go with C.S. Lewis' hell-is-living-without-you theory.
God isn’t saving us from himself….he’s saving us from ourselves so that we may be brought into union with him.
No. He is saving you from himself, since he's the one (in your world view) who imposes the punishment. It is in his power (omnipotent as he is) to accept you as you are, warts and all. In fact, it was in his power to make it so you never “fell”, but he didn’t.
It’s an act of propitiation or atonement on our behalf….an act of love and grace.
Love and grace would be to save everyone without preconditions; not threaten with "believe, or else."
If my wife is hanging from the 3rd floor balcony, I'll try and save her; I won't negotiate with her, by saying I'll save her but only if she, first, agrees to make me a steak
Is God needing to appease himself? Sure, you can put it that way (much like saying “God is magic”…that’s fine too) provided you acknowledge your personal responsibility in that as well, but God needs for nothing.
My personal responsibility in what? Satisfying God's vanity? I don't feel any responsibility to stroke your God's ego.
God is satisfying the demands of his eternal laws put in place for us....laws get broken and justice is required to come after.
It would be both irrational and immoral to pass a law that said "All cats must eat a vegan diet! Any cat caught killing and eating a bird, mouse or other animal will be euthanized." Not only because cats lack the rational capacity to understand, but because our law would be impossible for a cat to follow even if it could understand: cats are obligate carnivores; they
must eat meat. It is against their nature to not eat meat.
The situation with your God, if the Bible is accurate, is no different. We are told that sin is in our nature; that we
cannot meet the requirements of the law that we are being forced to live under. That it is impossible for us because it is against our nature. I submit that punishing us for something that is beyond our control is morally wrong.
Still, God is and always will be just so the punishment will fit the offense. And our punishment for denying God is separation from him and all that he is….that is hell.
That's a nice bit of apologetics that C. S. Lewis dreamed up: you're not being tortured; just separated from God, which is what you wanted! Let us turn to Mark 9:47-48: "It is better that you enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to be
thrown into hell with two eyes,
where the worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched." I don't know man, sounds very much like torture to me.
Don’t want no God you don’t get no God.
I see Mark's excerpt above didn't do the trick. Let us turn, brothers and sisters, to Matthew 18:8: "
And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life maimed or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire."
We aren't just talking about "no God" here. We are talking about
eternal fire. Again, sounds very much like torture to me.
Saying "so God sets laws and sends himself to die for those that broke those laws is irrational….he should be big enough to just say ‘I love you and all is forgiven’ ". Does that honestly sound like justice to you?
The Bible literally says that it
impossible for us to live up to the standard that we are being asked to live up to. It doesn't sound like justice to me if I have no choice in the matter.
“Oh you did a bunch of bad crap…..eh, you’re good.” Do we even function like that in our governments? We govern ourselves and put standards in place for people to follow.
Yes, we do that. But we put in place standards that people
CAN follow. That is to say, we don't pass laws that make breathing illegal. Rather, we pass laws that make the premeditated killing of one human being by another illegal. And, what's more, in our system, in order to violate a law (a criminal law) you must have the requisite mens rea; without that, no crime can be committed.
Sure they’re subjective standards, but we aren’t objective creatures. Try telling a judge, “I didn’t break any laws because I don’t affirm your law therefore I’m not accountable to it….I’m a free inhabitant.” Well “free inhabitant” LOL, you goin to jail!
"Judge, I know that running red lights is illegal, and I concede that there is video of me that shows me running the red light at the intersection of First and Main. Your Honor, this is a sworn affidavit by Mr. X attesting to the fact that minutes before this incident, a shipment of nails fell off his truck in the vicinity of the intersection. The nails punctured my vehicle's tires, which resulted in an unexpected loss of control of my vehicle through no fault of my own and prevented me from stopping. I respectfully ask that the Court find me not responsible for violating the statute, and dismiss this ticket."God sent his son in Jesus Christ to come and live and die as a demonstration for what we lack and what we need.
Are you suggesting that it is possible for a human to be saved on his own merit, without relying on Jesus's sacrifice? Unless you are, Jesus was no demonstration of anything.
Aligning ourselves with God’s will is essentially the pursuit of righteousness.
It's not righteous to punish someone for something that is outside of their control. If it's impossible for us to meet God’s proverbial bar, punishing us for our failure is morally wrong.
We forgo of our carnal desires and seek his will above our own.
At least that’s the theory. But I’ll bet even the holiest man you can think of tried to sneak a quick jerk here and there.
Denying God is denying righteousness and adopting a life of temporary pleasures enjoyed on your terms, but that choice comes with eternal consequences.
If you define God as righteous, I guess that you could stretch denying him into denying righteousness. But there's no objective evidence that is righteous; indeed, several instances in the BIble suggest that he's anything but righteous (Mark 4:11-12).
I may not respond for quite some time so please take no offense if you do reply.
I won't. I know that these sort of exchanges can be very draining. It's 3am here on a rainy night and bed is calling.