DOMS

[leonp1981]

Whenever I train legs, I'm severely sore for 4-6 days after.  And not just a bit, I mean can't go up and down stairs sore, to the point it affects my work.  All other bodyparts are fine, bit sore for a day or two, nothing extreme (my shoulders are never sore, no matter what I do to them) but my legs are so bad I can only train them every fortnight at the moment.

My routine usually looks something like this:-

Squats - 4 sets
Leg press - 4
SL deadlift - 4
Leg curl/extension superset - 3
Calves - 4

I always stretch after my workouts, and I take creatine, glutamine and BCAA's with my whey.

I'm not overtraining, I'm getting sufficient nutrition and rest, so what else could it be?  Is it just genetics? (although it didn't used to be this bad)

Any advice appreciated.

[pumpster]

A few things to try, then decide:

-It sounds like you're hitting them once a week. Try twice, using either the same workout or anything else. You'll still be sore but not to this degree.

Or...

-Do twice a week using reduced total sets for quads & hams - rotate leg press & extensions in or out, not doing both in the same workout. If you're really working during squats, you really don't need 2 more quad exercises in the same workout. And do just 3 sets for leg press or extensions, your quads should already be fatigued from squats. Same with curls & deads, one or the other not both in the same workout.

Or...

Use reduced volume above, once a week. I like reduced volume twice a week but that's up to you.


One other thing, unrelated. Why are you doing deads in the middle of legs? It's only indirectly hitting legs: IMO you should do deads at the end of the workout.

[AVBG]

Is it your quads or hams that are in the most paid?

try splitting the hams and the quad workouts..

instead of doing both legpress and squat.. alternate between the two and incorporate front squats on quad day...

With hams, standing leg curls and sl deads if no standing leg curls do lying 4 to 5 sets per exercise and 12-15 reps.

[leonp1981]

One other thing, unrelated. Why are you doing deads in the middle of legs? It's only indirectly hitting legs: IMO you should do deads at the end of the workout.

I only do the stiff-legged dead every other workout.  I find they give me a feel I can't get with leg curls, and they have also helped with stretching out my hams and giving me a better range of motion. 

I think I'll try cutting the volume.  Maybe 4 x squat, 4 x other quad movement, 4 x leg curls, 4 x calves?

[leonp1981]

Is it your quads or hams that are in the most paid?

try splitting the hams and the quad workouts..

The quads are sore for bout 4-5 days, hams and glutes for 5-6 days, so only slightly different. 

The problem with splitting them into two workouts is that I train upper body at home 3 days a week, and legs in the local gym 1 day a week.  With my work and the gym's crappy opening hours (4-8pm, Mon-Fri!!!) I can only get there once a week.

I could possibly do hams at home?  I have a leg curl attachment, and can do SL deads still.

[AVBG]

The quads are sore for bout 4-5 days, hams and glutes for 5-6 days, so only slightly different. 

The problem with splitting them into two workouts is that I train upper body at home 3 days a week, and legs in the local gym 1 day a week.  With my work and the gym's crappy opening hours (4-8pm, Mon-Fri!!!) I can only get there once a week.

I could possibly do hams at home?  I have a leg curl attachment, and can do SL deads still.

I train for the most part at home and hit the commercial gym to mix it up.. If you got the equip at home, use it.. You could do wonders by bringing up weak parts at home 

[pumpster]

I think I'll try cutting the volume.  Maybe 4 x squat, 4 x other quad movement, 4 x leg curls, 4 x calves?

Try this, using max. intensity on those sets. Try once a week sometimes, twice a week sometimes, compare the effect.

[leonp1981]

I train for the most part at home and hit the commercial gym to mix it up.. If you got the equip at home, use it.. You could do wonders by bringing up weak parts at home 

Yeah, I'm currently saving for a power rack so I can do legs at home as well.  Like I said, the local gym isn't open at the times I train, and its quite expensive as well.  I prefer working out at home anyway.  My own equipment, my own music, and my g/f doesn't mind spotting me when I need it! 

[leonp1981]

Try this, using max. intensity on those sets. Try once a week sometimes, twice a week sometimes, compare the effect.

I'm wondering if using max. intensity could be one of the problems?  I always go heavy, 6-10 reps most sets, and I train to failure on about 50% of my compound movement sets.  What do you think to going lower weight, higher reps for a while, to try and get more of a burn/pump?

[pumpster]

I'm wondering if using max. intensity could be one of the problems?  I always go heavy, 6-10 reps most sets, and I train to failure on about 50% of my compound movement sets.  What do you think to going lower weight, higher reps for a while, to try and get more of a burn/pump?

I don't think you have to change the reps, because you were already producing "good" soreness, just too much. That proves you're doing the right things already; your exercises are already effective, just too numerous.

The intensity in each set is only a good thing, in fact that means you don't need as many sets each workout. A couple of ways to reduce but still maintain soreness is to reduce sets and/or increase frequency of workouts per week. Try both at different times and compare results-different combos of reduced sets and increased frequency.

[leonp1981]

I don't think you have to change the reps, because you were already producing "good" soreness, just too much. That proves you're doing the right things already; your exercises are already effective, just too numerous.

The intensity in each set is only a good thing, in fact that means you don't need as many sets each workout. A couple of ways to reduce but still maintain soreness is to reduce sets and/or increase frequency of workouts per week. Try both at different times and compare results-different combos of reduced sets and increased frequency.

OK, I'll give it a go.  It's legs on Wednesday hopefully, depending on how they feel!

[Hedgehog]

Whenever I train legs, I'm severely sore for 4-6 days after.  And not just a bit, I mean can't go up and down stairs sore, to the point it affects my work.  All other bodyparts are fine, bit sore for a day or two, nothing extreme (my shoulders are never sore, no matter what I do to them) but my legs are so bad I can only train them every fortnight at the moment.

My routine usually looks something like this:-

Squats - 4 sets
Leg press - 4
SL deadlift - 4
Leg curl/extension superset - 3
Calves - 4

I always stretch after my workouts, and I take creatine, glutamine and BCAA's with my whey.

I'm not overtraining, I'm getting sufficient nutrition and rest, so what else could it be?  Is it just genetics? (although it didn't used to be this bad)

Any advice appreciated.

I don't see what the problem is TBH.

Keep doing what you are doing. Lot of guys would pay money to be in your position.

-Hedge

[jpm101]

The bottom line question would be; are you making good to great gains in muscle size and strength? Are your quads filling out your pant legs like never before. If thats the case, than I really do not see any reason to tweak what your doing. I would agree with HedgeHog.The workout plan you summited is a good one, except that you may consider replacing the regular DL with the SLDL. Trying for an equal amount of work/sets for the quads and hams.  Most guy's do not do that, it's all quads for them. Take a 90 to 120 second break between sets. Really no need to go to extreme failure on any set, even 50% of them. Of course we all know that muscle soreness is never a link to increased muscle size and gains for any one.

Being that sore, that often after a leg workout you are use to doing, is unusual.  If you do want to do some tweaking than try increasing the rep range to 10 to 15 reps (or as high as 18 to 20) for awhile, gaining more circulation overall in the lower body area. But keep it down to 4 sets each exercise. Dress warm during the workout, keeping the body heat inward, for better blood flow. A lot of heavy lifters get regular messages after a training session but most guy's can not afford this luxury. Might try a rubbing lotain or self massage after a workout, and the days that follow. Good Luck.

[pumpster]

It's interesting to see an experienced guy like Milos as much a proponent of training to failure as i am. His whole approach is gruelling, which i'm entirely in favor of. Change ain't easy bottom line!!

As far as DOMS, it should be a lot easier to tweak and pull back from too much DOMS than trying to get it, for the rest of us. Just has to fine-tune it.

[leonp1981]

Cheers for all the advice guys!