Would a moratorium on.....

[Cap]

immigration decrease poverty by decreasing the amount of people vying for jobs? I was discussing this in class today and it seems like this is one option.  Also, with the shortage of US engineering majors, if we bumped up math and science there would be more people to fill those jobs and free up jobs that maybe less skilled workers would take?  It also seems that less money spent on immigrants, legal or illegal would provide for more money for education. 

I know you guys will bring up the war spending but aside from that issue, speak on this.  I want to hear both sides of the spectrum.

[Camel Jockey]

*moratorium

A free market needs a constand supply of immigrants to run. And how do we spend money of legal immigrants again? if you're saying they're taking up welfare then why not just end welfar. There isn't much difference between Jose using welfare checks to buy corona compared to Joe buying bourbon.. catch my drift?

Most of the engineering majors in City College in NY(my example) are immigrants or are the children of immigrants. And you can't just "bump up" math and science if the general population has no interest. YOUR proposal would hurt engineering. 

"Vying" for jobs is a good thing, as it keeps us competitive. If some joe is complaining about not being able to land a job then tough shit for him for not being able to pick out a good trade. Competition weeds out the weak. What you are proposing is welfare economics. Sorry, but a free and wild west type of market where whoever can outduke each other is what makes this country great. People, even americans may be left in the dust, but that's in the name of efficiency.

I ask you to provide statistics to back up how your proposal would save us money.. I bet the amount would be too small to make any sort of impact on our educational system.

Immigration needs to be controled to a degree where we admit people of certain nations only. Such as those of fast growing nations like China, Korea, India, Russia and others. I know that would be discrimination, but it would keep american growing and on top by stealing the brightest minds of other nations.

Your stupid proposal would make a lot of people happy, but would slow down the growth of this nation bigtime.

[240 is Back]

this nation NEEDS illegal immigrants.

without them, the price of everything will go up, because you will need to pay white college/20s males to do the jobs being held by grown mexican males.  The new batch will be less skilled and need more $ to leave their easy job at the GAP or other mall outlet.  Price of anything connected to food or mnfg goes up.  This also creates a void at the mall, which has to raise salaries to steal people from positions at better firms.  And, since your insurance company guy left his job to work at the mall, you have to pay more for that too.  It's not a good scenario. 

They all talk about 'closing the border' but there's a damn good reason Bush had a blank check for 6 years with congress, and didn't budge an inch on the border - our fragile economy NEEDS them.

[Hugo Chavez]

this nation NEEDS illegal immigrants.

without them, the price of everything will go up, because you will need to pay white college/20s males to do the jobs being held by grown mexican males.  The new batch will be less skilled and need more $ to leave their easy job at the GAP or other mall outlet.  Price of anything connected to food or mnfg goes up.  This also creates a void at the mall, which has to raise salaries to steal people from positions at better firms.  And, since your insurance company guy left his job to work at the mall, you have to pay more for that too.  It's not a good scenario. 

They all talk about 'closing the border' but there's a damn good reason Bush had a blank check for 6 years with congress, and didn't budge an inch on the border - our fragile economy NEEDS them.

This nation does not need "illegal immigrants" 

[Cap]

*moratorium Thanks

A free market needs a constand supply of immigrants to run. And how do we spend money of legal immigrants again? if you're saying they're taking up welfare then why not just end welfar. There isn't much difference between Jose using welfare checks to buy corona compared to Joe buying bourbon.. catch my drift? I never qualified that with legal or illegal.  Most immigrants of either group have little capital to succeed right away.  However, with illegals and the billions they take, if you put that into American education, more minorities can get better education.  Bottom line, the jobs Bush has created need education and if people have them, things like outsourcing would go down especially with the shortage of engineers here.

Most of the engineering majors in City College in NY(my example) are immigrants or are the children of immigrants. And you can't just "bump up" math and science if the general population has no interest. YOUR proposal would hurt engineering.  If you force science and math like they do in Asia, there would be more emphasis on it.  Most high schools here require on Algebra 2.  If you force Calc or Trig, more people would be exposed to math.  Having thousands of COM majors is doing shit for this country.

"Vying" for jobs is a good thing, as it keeps us competitive. If some joe is complaining about not being able to land a job then tough shit for him for not being able to pick out a good trade. Competition weeds out the weak. What you are proposing is welfare economics. Sorry, but a free and wild west type of market where whoever can outduke each other is what makes this country great. People, even americans may be left in the dust, but that's in the name of efficiency.  If we want less bums here and want to change poverty, which libs want, as do I because I hate paying for them, we need to do something.  I am with you on no welfare economics.  My point is that we bitch about poverty and then say tough shit.  I feel that the best person gets the job but we need to think outside the box.  Maybe putting a ten year cap on welfare will force people to work harder but it seems like people want to have no poverty but then do nothing about it.  I could give a shit about it but it is a constant argument against my party.

I ask you to provide statistics to back up how your proposal would save us money.. I bet the amount would be too small to make any sort of impact on our educational system. I simply provided an idea for discussion, I am not advocating anything right now.  BTW, with how much money we do spend on welfare and how many immigrants we have to educate (millions) I would say it does have an impact on spending and quality of education.  Illegals drive down test scores and those schools get fucked for money.

Immigration needs to be controled to a degree where we admit people of certain nations only. Such as those of fast growing nations like China, Korea, India, Russia and others. I know that would be discrimination, but it would keep american growing and on top by stealing the brightest minds of other nations. I totally agree here.  We need to stop allowing "amnesty" BS because we have millions of morons coming in here and producing more little idiots.

Your stupid proposal would make a lot of people happy, but would slow down the growth of this nation bigtime. It is no proposal and if I had my way I would kick all the illegals out and go from there.  I would cap welfare and make people work.  I am tired of hearing excuses but it seems like the bigger this nation gets in terms of immigrants and welfare babies who perpetuate the cycle, the mroe poverty we have and the mroe money we piss away.  We spend too much money on them.  I am playing Devils Advocate here BTW, this was meant to spark discussion based on a discussion I was in today.   

[24KT]

Cap,

I hate to break it to you, but they're right on plan. Your nation will never close it's southern borders to illegal immigration and your education system will not improve. it's all part of the plan. What is occurring in America at the moment, is a systematic assault on the middle class.