If we leave Iraq

[Old_Rooster]

What do you brilliant ones think will happen to the middle east?

[ToxicAvenger]

What do you brilliant ones think will happen to the middle east?

what will happen in the middle east or specifically iraq?

[Old_Rooster]

what will happen in the middle east or specifically iraq?

both.
I'd pretty much assume Iraq falls under iran's control but what the hell, who cares , right?  Probably then goodbye Kuwait.....Israel eventually gets attacked.....most likely watching from the moon the entire middle east becomes a fireball.

[OzmO]

The question is, under the present approach (BUSH in his stupidity), how long are you willing to support it?

How many more people have to die,  under the present approach ....?

How much more money do we have to sink into it , under the present approach ....?

How many enemies do we have to create under the present approach ....?

Before you say enough is enough?  And actually want to change it. 

[Old_Rooster]

The question is, under the present approach (BUSH in his stupidity), how long are you willing to support it?

How many more people have to die,  under the present approach ....?

How much more money do we have to sink into it , under the present approach ....?

How many enemies do we have to create under the present approach ....?

Before you say enough is enough?  And actually want to change it. 

The problem Ozmo with changing it is the democrats have no idea what to CHANGE IT TO.

christ, give us a plan before we just pull out and kiss the middle east goodbye.
I've yet to hear any plan other than someone saying we need to dialogue with the terrorists which is about as idiotic as it gets.
Talk to terrorists?  christ....

[OzmO]

The problem Ozmo with changing it is the democrats have no idea what to CHANGE IT TO.

christ, give us a plan before we just pull out and kiss the middle east goodbye.
I've yet to hear any plan other than someone saying we need to dialogue with the terrorists which is about as idiotic as it gets.
Talk to terrorists?  christ....

Ok give us a plan............  what would you suggest?   At least we now can both admit BUSH's plan isn't working.

[24KT]

The problem Ozmo with changing it is the democrats have no idea what to CHANGE IT TO.

christ, give us a plan before we just pull out and kiss the middle east goodbye.
I've yet to hear any plan other than someone saying we need to dialogue with the terrorists which is about as idiotic as it gets.
Talk to terrorists?  christ....

Who wants to talk to terrorists?

I have heard some US lawmakers propose bringing the neighbouring countries together to form a solution, but I have yet to hear any propose talking with terrorists... except Republican Bill Frist who recommended the taleban be brought into the gov of Afghanistan.

[OzmO]

Who wants to talk to terrorists?

I have heard some US lawmakers propose bringing the neighbouring countries together to form a solution, but I have yet to hear any propose talking with terrorists... except Republican Bill Frist who recommended the taleban be brought into the gov of Afghanistan.

If we don't seize the opportunity to get neighboring nations to help us with this we will be worse off.

What kills me, i mean absolutly gets me shaking my head in wonderment, is how some people connect soliciting the help of neighboring countries to help us as us talking with terrorists.  I'm sure that's not what O.R. is talking here.

It boggles my mind how people could be so stupid, brainwashed and ignorant.

[24KT]

If we don't seize the opportunity to get neighboring nations to help us with this we will be worse off.

What kills me, i mean absolutly gets me shaking my head in wonderment, is how some people connect soliciting the help of neighboring countries to help us as us talking with terrorists.  I'm sure that's not what O.R. is talking here.

It boggles my mind how people could be so stupid, brainwashed and ignorant.

Because the War Machine has done such a superb job of convincing people that all Middle Easterners are terrorists

[Old_Rooster]

If we don't seize the opportunity to get neighboring nations to help us with this we will be worse off.

What kills me, i mean absolutly gets me shaking my head in wonderment, is how some people connect soliciting the help of neighboring countries to help us as us talking with terrorists.  I'm sure that's not what O.R. is talking here.

It boggles my mind how people could be so stupid, brainwashed and ignorant.

If you just blindly pull out, you might as well talk to terrorists because you are caving in to them.
Hey, I don't have a plan, thats why i'm not for pulling out now, i need to hear some workable plan first, i ain't heard that.
although i'm sure Syria and Iran would love to be included on what to do...

[24KT]

If you just blindly pull out, you might as well talk to terrorists because you are caving in to them.
Hey, I don't have a plan, thats why i'm not for pulling out now, i need to hear some workable plan first, i ain't heard that.
although i'm sure Syria and Iran would love to be included on what to do...

Of course they would... and why wouldn't they? They're right next door to that shitstorm!

[xxxLinda]

fab thread, thanks so much xL in London, I'm about to dbl. post. 


do you wanna do a thread about your 1st or 2nd or 5th (we can't keep up with you)
amendment to bear arms?
xxxL

[OzmO]

If you just blindly pull out, you might as well talk to terrorists because you are caving in to them.
Hey, I don't have a plan, thats why i'm not for pulling out now, i need to hear some workable plan first, i ain't heard that.
although i'm sure Syria and Iran would love to be included on what to do...

I'm not suggesting we pull out now.  What I'm asking is how much is enough?   How many Americans need to die over there before it makes sense to pull out if you or anyone else doesn't have a good plan?

Will it be enough when no one wants to join the military and go through the Iraq grinder?

Will it be enough when we are 2 trillion in debt?

Will it be enough when we've lost 50,000 killed in a Iraq just like Nam?


And yes, if we want significant help from other neighboring countries, Syria and Iran will have to be involved.  No avoiding it.

[Old_Rooster]

I'm not suggesting we pull out now.  What I'm asking is how much is enough?   How many Americans need to die over there before it makes sense to pull out if you or anyone else doesn't have a good plan?

Will it be enough when no one wants to join the military and go through the Iraq grinder?

Will it be enough when we are 2 trillion in debt?

Will it be enough when we've lost 50,000 killed in a Iraq just like Nam?


And yes, if we want significant help from other neighboring countries, Syria and Iran will have to be involved.  No avoiding it.

Since I now support McCain and he says we should stay, i'm gonna blindly follow him and support him, he knows way more about all this than you or I.
Debt is just a number.
We can crank up the draft if need be.
We simply can't admit defeat.

[OzmO]

Since I now support McCain and he says we should stay, i'm gonna blindly follow him and support him, he knows way more about all this than you or I.
Debt is just a number.
We can crank up the draft if need be.
We simply can't admit defeat.

Debt is just a number?   


As for McCain knowing more about this?  That's what I'm afraid of.......

[Old_Rooster]

Debt is just a number?   


As for McCain knowing more about this?  That's what I'm afraid of.......

You are more informed about national security and foreign policy than John McCain?  well i'll be damned, you should run for president instead of moderating on getbig.

[24KT]

Hasn't McCain said if the situation hasn't changed by the time he is in office, if he gets there, he'll call for an immediate pull out? Sounds to me like he's for it as well, but is trying to garner votes from those who are against it, ...knowing he also needs the votes of those who are for it.

[Old_Rooster]

Hasn't McCain said if the situation hasn't changed by the time he is in office, if he gets there, he'll call for an immediate pull out? Sounds to me like he's for it as well, but is trying to garner votes from those who are against it, ...knowing he also needs the votes of those who are for it.

I haven't heard that, i've heard him say he is for giving the surge a chance.   

Don't get me wrong, i'm all for getting out of Iraq, I hate our troops dying also but i can't just be like a democrat and blindly say LEAVE AND LEAVE NOW.  without any plan?  thats totally idiotic....

[OzmO]

You are more informed about national security and foreign policy than John McCain?  well i'll be damned, you should run for president instead of moderating on getbig.

Did say that?   no.


what i was implying was that he knows Iraq like BUSH knows Iraq.......that's what I'm afraid of.

BTW....As president, any moron could have made a better decision than Bush did on Iraq.

[Old_Rooster]

Did say that?   no.


what i was implying was that he knows Iraq like BUSH knows Iraq.......that's what I'm afraid of.

BTW....As president, any moron could have made a better decision than Bush did on Iraq.

Hey you could have had Kerry and 2 choices, he chose both!!

[240 is Back]

slow down.  we don't have to leave IRAQ.

We cna leave iraqi cities and let them deal with the bullshit.

we stay in iraq and manage the border, pipeline, and oil, and US bases.

Problems solved.

[Old_Rooster]

Might be fun to have a democrat back in office so then i can be like you guys,just offer no solutions but call the president a murderer , idiot and god fucking help a democratic president if he ever goes to camp david, i'll be all over that like stink on shit.

hell yeah, i wanna just bitch whine and moan about my country like you guys for a few years.

[OzmO]

slow down.  we don't have to leave IRAQ.

We cna leave iraqi cities and let them deal with the bullshit.

we stay in iraq and manage the border, pipeline, and oil, and US bases.

Problems solved.

You've been pushing that idea of yours for some time now, 240 and in theory or on paper, it would seem to make sense. 

But i believe once we lose what little control we have of the cities, losing control of the country will be right around the corner.

We will still need at least Basra to supply our bases. 

The Iraqi government wold quickly cave in. 

I think the only thing holding them together is our presence.

[OzmO]

Might be fun to have a democrat back in office so then i can be like you guys,just offer no solutions but call the president a murderer , idiot and god fucking help a democratic president if he ever goes to camp david, i'll be all over that like stink on shit.

hell yeah, i wanna just bitch whine and moan about my country like you guys for a few years.

Well dude, you aren't offering any solutions, you just said you'd blindly follow who ever down the same no-win path.

As long as you can go golf you don't care right?

[Old_Rooster]

You've been pushing that idea of yours for some time now, 240 and in theory or on paper, it would seem to make sense. 

But i believe once we lose what little control we have of the cities, losing control of the country will be right around the corner.

We will still need at least Basra to supply our bases. 

The Iraqi government wold quickly cave in. 

I think the only thing holding them together is our presence.

WOW, our presence? really?  thanks for admitting that.
So when you call for withdrawal , you are basically saying FUCK THE IRAQI people?