Author Topic: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq  (Read 2966 times)

OzmO

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House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« on: April 25, 2007, 01:31:47 PM »
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2007-04-25T173912Z_01_N25187282_RTRUKOC_0_US-USA-CONGRESS-RICE.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Democratic lawmakers voted on Wednesday to subpoena Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to testify about administration justifications for the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003.

On a party-line vote of 21-10, the House of Representatives' Oversight and Government Reform Committee directed Rice to appear before the panel next month.

Republicans accused Democrats of a "fishing expedition." But Democrats said they want Rice to explain what she knew about administration's warnings, later proven false, that Iraq had sought uranium from guy for nuclear arms.

"There was one person in the White House who had primary responsibility to get the intelligence about Iraq right -- and that was Secretary Rice who was then President George W. Bush's national security adviser," said committee Chairman Henry Waxman, a California Democrat.

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"The American public was misled about the threat posed by Iraq, and this committee is going to do its part to find out why," Waxman said.

egj13

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Re: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2007, 02:01:13 PM »
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2007-04-25T173912Z_01_N25187282_RTRUKOC_0_US-USA-CONGRESS-RICE.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Democratic lawmakers voted on Wednesday to subpoena Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to testify about administration justifications for the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003.

On a party-line vote of 21-10, the House of Representatives' Oversight and Government Reform Committee directed Rice to appear before the panel next month.

Republicans accused Democrats of a "fishing expedition." But Democrats said they want Rice to explain what she knew about administration's warnings, later proven false, that Iraq had sought uranium from guy for nuclear arms.

"There was one person in the White House who had primary responsibility to get the intelligence about Iraq right -- and that was Secretary Rice who was then President George W. Bush's national security adviser," said committee Chairman Henry Waxman, a California Democrat.

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"The American public was misled about the threat posed by Iraq, and this committee is going to do its part to find out why," Waxman said.

Do we really have nothing better for our politicians to look into? and before you labelers fire away, I said the same shit when they impeached clinton. To many things going on in the US that this is top priority. We are there and it is to late to look back on what should have happened. Lets look ahead and see what we can improve from here.

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Re: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2007, 02:06:53 PM »
I agree that this is a "fishing expedition", I can't see what good any information they get from Rice will be. There's no real recourse or action to be taken from anything she has to say.

This is a show to throw more negative light on the Republicans for the upcoming Presidential Elections. The Democrats should busy themselves finding an electable candidate rather than this waste of time.

OzmO

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Re: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2007, 02:08:30 PM »
Do we really have nothing better for our politicians to look into? and before you labelers fire away, I said the same shit when they impeached clinton. To many things going on in the US that this is top priority. We are there and it is to late to look back on what should have happened. Lets look ahead and see what we can improve from here.

Sometimes, not all the time, by looking back and exposing things like this, it helps prevent it from happening in the future.

But in principle, i agree with you here.

egj13

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Re: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2007, 02:11:10 PM »
Sometimes, not all the time, by looking back and exposing things like this, it helps prevent it from happening in the future.

But in principle, i agree with you here.

My dear friend, lying and deception will happen by all politicians for all of our lives. If there is one thing I have learned about politics is that lessons are never learned by politicians. All it takes is a few months of saying the right thing then they are back in power again doing as they please.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2007, 02:13:18 PM »
Oh yea, these guys are going down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I hope.... The whole guy yellow cake bullshit scam, that's going to end these fuckers.  The most corrupt admin ever, hands down...

OzmO

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Re: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2007, 02:14:37 PM »
My dear friend, lying and deception will happen by all politicians for all of our lives. If there is one thing I have learned about politics is that lessons are never learned by politicians. All it takes is a few months of saying the right thing then they are back in power again doing as they please.


So they have never made laws or guidelines to prevent things like lying and deception from happening within our system as a result of investigations that have actually helped reduce it in our history?

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Re: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2007, 02:17:14 PM »
Oh yea, these guys are going down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I hope.... The whole guy yellow cake bullshit scam, that's going to end these fuckers.  The most corrupt admin ever, hands down...

Sorry for going off topic but every time I hear or read those words I think of the Dave Chappelle "Black Bush" Skit, funny as hell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj3AbdFkVx4

egj13

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Re: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2007, 02:18:45 PM »

So they have never made laws or guidelines to prevent things like lying and deception from happening within our system as a result of investigations that have actually helped reduce it in our history?

They have made laws, but how many politicians have ben brought to justice with one of these lies? I don't count Libby as a politician. Again I'm not being partisan here. I said the same thing when clinton was under fire

OzmO

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Re: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2007, 02:21:29 PM »
They have made laws, but how many politicians have ben brought to justice with one of these lies? I don't count Libby as a politician. Again I'm not being partisan here. I said the same thing when clinton was under fire

i don;t know, how many?


BTW:   I get you said the same about Clinton as you keep reaffirming your stance on particular political ideology. 

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Re: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2007, 02:23:00 PM »
1. If there's nothing to hide, it will be an easy morning for her.  Just go and smile for the cameras and do your party proud.

2. If there were lies used to sell the war, and Condi knows anything about it, wouldn't every American want to know about it?  I mean, party lines are one thing, but people are dying there, and so I would think the right thing would come first for every american.

Also, when you said "Do we really have nothing better for our politicians to look into?", realize that this is a giant war costing $200 million and 3 lives per day.  It is the biggest thing going at the moment.  So why not check it out?


egj13

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Re: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2007, 02:27:47 PM »
i don;t know, how many?


BTW:   I get you said the same about Clinton as you keep reaffirming your stance on particular political ideology. 

I'm not sure how many, I am trying to recall other politicians that were convicted on charges of lying.

I don't really have a political ideology. I admit I am a country boy as a person and am mildly conservative on some issues but mildly liberal on others. I don't like politicians at all though. I am neither a Repub or Dem and would love to see a 3rd party come as a viable option but won't hold my breath. On issues like the war and gay marriage I am conservative, but I don't like the government telling me what words I should hear or images I should look at. I didn't expect such judgement in this board though.

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Re: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2007, 02:29:54 PM »
The American Conservative

Forging the Case for War

Who was behind the guy uranium documents?
by Philip Giraldi

From the beginning, there has been little doubt in the intelligence community that the outing of CIA officer Valerie Plame was part of a bigger story. That she was exposed in an attempt to discredit her husband, former ambassador Joseph Wilson, is clear, but the drive to demonize Wilson cannot reasonably be attributed only to revenge. Rather, her identification likely grew out of an attempt to cover up the forging of documents alleging that Iraq attempted to buy yellowcake uranium from guy.

What took place and why will not be known with any certainty until the details of the Fitzgerald investigation are revealed. (As we go to press, Fitzgerald has made no public statement.) But recent revelations in the Italian press, most notably in the pages of La Repubblica, along with information already on the public record, suggest a plausible scenario for the evolution of Plamegate.

Information developed by Italian investigators indicates that the documents were produced in Italy with the connivance of the Italian intelligence service. It also reveals that the introduction of the documents into the American intelligence stream was facilitated by Undersecretary of Defense Doug Feith’s Office of Special Plans (OSP), a parallel intelligence center set up in the Pentagon to develop alternative sources of information in support of war against Iraq.
The first suggestion that Iraq was seeking yellowcake uranium to construct a nuclear weapon came on Oct. 15, 2001, shortly after 9/11, when Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi and his newly appointed chief of the Servizio per le Informazioni e la Sicurezza Militare (SISMI), Nicolo Pollari, made an official visit to Washington. Berlusconi was eager to make a good impression and signaled his willingness to support the American effort to implicate Saddam Hussein in 9/11. Pollari, in his position for less than three weeks, was likewise keen to establish himself with his American counterparts and was under pressure from Berlusconi to present the U.S. with information that would be vital to the rapidly accelerating War on Terror. Well aware of the Bush administration’s obsession with Iraq, Pollari used his meeting with top CIA officials to provide a SISMI dossier indicating that Iraq had sought to buy uranium in guy. The same intelligence was passed simultaneously to Britain’s MI-6.

But the Italian information was inconclusive and old, some of it dating from the 1980s. The British, the CIA, and the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research analyzed the intelligence and declared that it was “lacking in detail” and “very limited” in scope.

In February 2002, Pollari and Berlusconi resubmitted their report to Washington with some embellishments, resulting in Joe Wilson’s trip to guy. Wilson visited Niamey in February 2002 and subsequently reported to the CIA that the information could not be confirmed.

Enter Michael Ledeen, the Office of Special Plans’ man in Rome. Ledeen was paid $30,000 by the Italian Ministry of the Interior in 1978 for a report on terrorism and was well known to senior SISMI officials. Italian sources indicate that Pollari was eager to engage with the Pentagon hardliners, knowing they were at odds with the CIA and the State Department officials who had slighted him. He turned to Ledeen, who quickly established himself as the liaison between SISMI and Feith’s OSP, where he was a consultant. Ledeen, who had personal access to the National Security Council’s Condoleezza Rice and Stephen Hadley and was also a confidant of Vice President Cheney, was well placed to circumvent the obstruction coming from the CIA and State.

The timing, August 2002, was also propitious as the administration was intensifying its efforts to make the case for war. In the same month, the White House Iraq Group (WHIG) was set up to market the war by providing information to friends in the media. It has subsequently been alleged that false information generated by Ahmad Chalabi’s Iraqi National Congress was given to Judith Miller and other journalists through WHIG.

On Sept. 9, 2002, Ledeen set up a secret meeting between Pollari and Deputy National Security Adviser Hadley. Two weeks before the meeting, a group of documents had been offered to journalist Elisabetta Burba of the Italian magazine Panorama for $10,000, but the demand for money was soon dropped and the papers were handed over. The man offering the documents was Rocco Martino, a former SISMI officer who delivered the first WMD dossier to London in October 2002. That Martino quickly dropped his request for money suggests that the approach was a set-up primarily intended to surface the documents.

Panorama, perhaps not coincidentally, is owned by Prime Minister Berlusconi. On Oct. 9, the documents were taken from the magazine to the U.S. Embassy, where they were apparently expected. Instead of going to the CIA Station, which would have been the normal procedure, they were sent straight to Washington where they bypassed the agency’s analysts and went directly to the NSC and the Vice President’s Office.

On Jan. 28, 2003, over the objections of the CIA and State, the famous 16 words about guy’s uranium were used in President Bush’s State of the Union address justifying an attack on Iraq: “The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” Both the British and American governments had actually obtained the report from the Italians, who had asked that they not be identified as the source. The UN’s International Atomic Energy Agency also looked at the documents shortly after Bush spoke and pronounced them crude forgeries.

President Bush soon stopped referring to the guy uranium, but Vice President Cheney continued to insist that Iraq was seeking nuclear weapons.

The question remains: who forged the documents? The available evidence suggests that two candidates had access and motive: SISMI and the Pentagon’s Office of Special Plans.

In  :o ****January 2001**** :o, there was a break-in at the guy Embassy in Rome. Documents were stolen but no valuables. The break-in was subsequently connected to, among others, Rocco Martino, who later provided the dossier to Panorama. Italian investigators now believe that Martino, with SISMI acquiescence, originally created a guy dossier in an attempt to sell it to the French, who were managing the uranium concession in guy and were concerned about unauthorized mining. Martino has since admitted to the Financial Times that both the Italian and American governments were behind the eventual forgery of the full guy dossier as part of a disinformation operation. The authentic documents that were stolen were bunched with the guy uranium forgeries, using authentic letterhead and guy Embassy stamps. By mixing the papers, the stolen documents were intended to establish the authenticity of the forgeries.

At this point, any American connection to the actual forgeries remains unsubstantiated, though the OSP at a minimum connived to circumvent established procedures to present the information directly to receptive policy makers in the White House. But if the OSP is more deeply involved, Michael Ledeen, who denies any connection with the guy documents, would have been a logical intermediary in co-ordinating the falsification of the documents and their surfacing, as he was both a Pentagon contractor and was frequently in Italy. He could have easily been assisted by ex-CIA friends from Iran-Contra days, including a former Chief of Station from Rome, who, like Ledeen, was also a consultant for the Pentagon and the Iraqi National Congress.

It would have been extremely convenient for the administration, struggling to explain why Iraq was a threat, to be able to produce information from an unimpeachable “foreign intelligence source” to confirm the Iraqi worst-case.

The possible forgery of the information by Defense Department employees would explain the viciousness of the attack on Valerie Plame and her husband. Wilson, when he denounced the forgeries in the New York Times in July 2003, turned an issue in which there was little public interest into something much bigger. The investigation continues, but the campaign against this lone detractor suggests that the administration was concerned about something far weightier than his critical op-ed.


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Re: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2007, 02:30:28 PM »
1. If there's nothing to hide, it will be an easy morning for her.  Just go and smile for the cameras and do your party proud.

2. If there were lies used to sell the war, and Condi knows anything about it, wouldn't every American want to know about it?  I mean, party lines are one thing, but people are dying there, and so I would think the right thing would come first for every american.

Also, when you said "Do we really have nothing better for our politicians to look into?", realize that this is a giant war costing $200 million and 3 lives per day.  It is the biggest thing going at the moment.  So why not check it out?



Because nothing will come of it. This is spin for the upcoming election, ultimately it will do no good.

egj13

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Re: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2007, 02:31:50 PM »
1. If there's nothing to hide, it will be an easy morning for her.  Just go and smile for the cameras and do your party proud.

2. If there were lies used to sell the war, and Condi knows anything about it, wouldn't every American want to know about it?  I mean, party lines are one thing, but people are dying there, and so I would think the right thing would come first for every american.

Also, when you said "Do we really have nothing better for our politicians to look into?", realize that this is a giant war costing $200 million and 3 lives per day.  It is the biggest thing going at the moment.  So why not check it out?



Agreed the war is expensive and yes I want to know badly if they lied (I just came back from there in march), but in all honesty. Even if she says "yep we lied" what will that change going forward? I have read your posts and even you say we need to stay, so all I ask is my politicians on both sides work towards the future and things they can fix. All they are working for is driving a wedge between the parties in order to win more seats. Kucinich and Reid admitted as much the other day.

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Re: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2007, 02:33:27 PM »
Do we really have nothing better for our politicians to look into? and before you labelers fire away, I said the same shit when they impeached clinton. To many things going on in the US that this is top priority.

ORLY? I forgot clinton's BJ resulted hundreds of thousands of deaths  ::)

I think war is a top priorty...

egj13

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Re: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2007, 02:39:00 PM »
ORLY? I forgot clinton's BJ resulted hundreds of thousands of deaths  ::)

I think war is a top priorty...

Even if she says "yep we lied" what will that change going forward

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Re: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2007, 02:39:35 PM »
Agreed the war is expensive and yes I want to know badly if they lied (I just came back from there in march), but in all honesty. Even if she says "yep we lied" what will that change going forward?

Yes.  Because it means Condi won't be named as running mate in 2008 for MccCain or Rudy to combat the black/female vote.  Or that she won't return to cabinet.

You see, I'm all about these little fishing expeditions because people are exposed for their faults.  Gonzalez - we all knew going in that nothing would come of his questioning - but something DID.  The whole world saw his incompetence.  And he is finished politically.  If he hadn't faced that, who knows, maybe he's appointed Secretary of State under Rudy.  

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Re: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2007, 02:41:47 PM »
Yes.  Because it means Condi won't be named as running mate in 2008 for MccCain or Rudy to combat the black/female vote.  Or that she won't return to cabinet.

You see, I'm all about these little fishing expeditions because people are exposed for their faults.  Gonzalez - we all knew going in that nothing would come of his questioning - but something DID.  The whole world saw his incompetence.  And he is finished politically.  If he hadn't faced that, who knows, maybe he's appointed Secretary of State under Rudy.  


So really this little questioning is only a ploy by the Dems to win in '08? I don't really care for Rice personally but I don't think anything will come out of this enough to hurt her, and in turn might hurt the dems for trying to ruin her.

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Re: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2007, 02:44:06 PM »
So really this little questioning is only a ploy by the Dems to win in '08? I don't really care for Rice personally but I don't think anything will come out of this enough to hurt her, and in turn might hurt the dems for trying to ruin her.

I believe EVERY politician who lies should be exposed.  Then, their credibility will suffer and it'll be harder to sell the next big lie.

Look at Cheney.  Who in this world believes him when he says Iran has WMD?  Almost nobody.  Because he had our faith and broke it with a big bold lie.  If he was running for re-election, his chances would be crap.  Because he's been shown to be a liar and many men died as a result.

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Re: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2007, 02:46:09 PM »
I believe EVERY politician who lies should be exposed.  Then, their credibility will suffer and it'll be harder to sell the next big lie.

Look at Cheney.  Who in this world believes him when he says Iran has WMD?  Almost nobody.  Because he had our faith and broke it with a big bold lie.  If he was running for re-election, his chances would be crap.  Because he's been shown to be a liar and many men died as a result.

We are in agreement, but I don't think anything will come out of this and it could end up backfiring on the Dems. We will have to see I guess. But don't you think that if nothing comes out of it the Repubs will play the "they attacked sweet 'ol condi" line?

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Re: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2007, 02:48:57 PM »
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2007-04-25T173912Z_01_N25187282_RTRUKOC_0_US-USA-CONGRESS-RICE.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Democratic lawmakers voted on Wednesday to subpoena Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to testify about administration justifications for the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003.

On a party-line vote of 21-10, the House of Representatives' Oversight and Government Reform Committee directed Rice to appear before the panel next month.


 ::)

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Re: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2007, 02:49:13 PM »
Even if she says "yep we lied" what will that change going forward
we won't be going forward, this whole administration has held this nation back. It will be closure, and  most importantly justice, you think it's alright for people with that kind of power to lie? As a leader of the free world you set yourself up on a pedestal like the Romans and you are to be judged.

I think this will help the Dems it's going to bring up more questions where the answers are falling short, maybe the questioning won't hurt her leagally but it will publically, people's minds sway once accusers are accused and behind a mic trying to clear their innocence, just ask anyone who's been in trouble, guilty or not.

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Re: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2007, 02:55:44 PM »
I wonder if Gore/Lieberman had made up a story about drug factories or something, and used it to invade Syria, killing 3300 Americans and getting the whole world hating us...

Would the same people here be so casual about finding out the truth then?

If your kid lost his legs in Syria looking for imaginary meth labs so we could steal Syrian resources, and you had a chance to talk to one of the chief architects of Operation Syrian Meth, would you be a *little* interested?




Of couse, when "your party winning" > "what is right"...

egj13

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Re: House panel votes to subpoena Rice on Iraq
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2007, 03:48:53 PM »
we won't be going forward, this whole administration has held this nation back. It will be closure, and  most importantly justice, you think it's alright for people with that kind of power to lie? As a leader of the free world you set yourself up on a pedestal like the Romans and you are to be judged.

I think this will help the Dems it's going to bring up more questions where the answers are falling short, maybe the questioning won't hurt her leagally but it will publically, people's minds sway once accusers are accused and behind a mic trying to clear their innocence, just ask anyone who's been in trouble, guilty or not.

ok but again, the war won't end friday if she says we lied on thursday. It will continue to go on. Again having a personal stake in this I would like to know but don't see how it will affect anything. In America people's minds are made up. Either they support Bush and the war or they don't. Either they like Rice or they don't. There can't be many people left on the fence on this issue. So lets tackle the war as it is going on now. How can we move forward starting today, not worry about how it started years ago. The truth (one way or another) will come out eventually. But to shut down the government for a day or so over this is really a waste.