real reasons for war: attn intenseone

[vikingpower]

(i liked this post so much i think it deserves its own thread ... joe and i were talking about the reason for the wars we are seeing in the mideast and he basically said my opinions were "bs conspriacy talk)

youre proving my point, what im saying has nothing to do with "bs conspiracy"; its basic accounting and economics

do you know where the money for the war comes from? ... the treasury

im not sure if you know what that is, but its essentially your money ... and where does that money go? in addition to the troops, it goes to department of defense contractors

who are the department of defense contractors? companies like raytheon, lockheed martin, boeing, haliburton etc


did you know that many of these DOD contractors had share prices that went up 1000% since the war began? and the mgmt/executive of these companies are intimately tied with both the pentagon and the CIA ... both parties of all levels of government ... insureres and private security companies like kroll and stratesic ... basically the most powerful entities in the US economy/political environment

do you see where i am going with this ... these companies have huge incentive for war, and they have the means to drive policy in that direction ... this sums up the first motive for war, greed(loosely, the micro economic angle)...

next .... there is the macro economic angle: war is the best way to revitalize a struggling economy, and (with modern warfare) there is also a technological/innovative boom resultant ... basically these wars are a great way to couple the costs of R&D with the cost of war (again see the treasury point, they are using your money to do this) ... and that serves to keep amreeka at the top of the pile

at the same time, there are more direct imperial objectives, namely resources (oil) ... the goal of these wars(aside from the above noted) seems to be regional transformation for the purpose of securing access to the 2 largest oil reserves in the world ... this will in turn increase the likelyhood that at the end of this "new amreekan century", amreeka is still #1

.

the sad thing is people like you(average joes) do not have the education, the desire, the patience and usually the capacity to understand these concepts ... so people like me sell you a war based on fear: fear of WMD's, fear of a saddam/911 link, fear of another terrorist attack ... and hatred: hatred for the "brown" people that knocked down you towers ... all of these reasons amount to little more than pretense, much like any notion of amreekan altruism

to brush this off as "conspiracy BS" is infantile, anyone who has taken an undergraduate economics course in growth+tech change will tell you the same thing

i know youre not stupid, but you are very ignorant + naive regarding these matters

[OzmO]

Then what is the war about?

Democracy?
Security?
Oil?
Power?


Anyone who thinks it's about spreading democracy or security should stick to watching Mr Roger re-runs.

[vikingpower]

imperialism, amreeka = new rome ... that encompasses security, oil, and power

[OzmO]

Pax-Americana!

[240 is Back]

Right on.

It's no secret - it's been planned for decades, and it's being done in the plain ol' open.

Only fools deny it's about energy and position at this point.

[w8tlftr]

New World Order = World Government 

[vikingpower]

weve had one since the fall of the ussr ... its just getting more official

[Camel Jockey]

imperialism, amreeka = new rome ... that encompasses security, oil, and power

The Mexicans are our version of germanic barbarians and Bush is certainly no Marcus Aurelius. 

[240 is Back]

weve had one since the fall of the ussr ... its just getting more official

haha yep.  when i hear alex jones gabbing on and on about it, I know he's right - but IMO:

1) it will take 100 years for it to happen, and I'll be fertilizer.
2) it will benefit americans most
3) it is unstoppable.

so while it's gonna suck for you iraqis' grandchildren, i can't stop it for ya, and I don't think I would if i could.   

[JOHN MATRIX]

haha yep.  when i hear alex jones gabbing on and on about it, I know he's right - but IMO:

1) it will take 100 years for it to happen, and I'll be fertilizer.
2) it will benefit americans most
3) it is unstoppable.

so while it's gonna suck for you iraqis' grandchildren, i can't stop it for ya, and I don't think I would if i could.   

yes thats the brutal truth, on the most basic level from tiny organisms to national governments its a matter of looking out for yourself and your own above all else. america will do what it sees necessary in order to protect its own interests no matter what the cost to anyone else, same as every state and every living thing has done since the beginning of time. that is the government's number one job. its just that nowdays we have ways of sugarcoating it

[240 is Back]

that is the government's number one job. its just that nowdays we have ways of sugarcoating it

in the past, a thing like WMD, or the 911 holes, would have gone unnoticed. 

People believed what their 6 o'clock news told them. 

Now, with the web, we see youtube clips of Rummy and a 911 commissioner talking about the "missile that hit the pentagon" and "shooting down the plane over Penn".   Now, with the web, we all knew about the UN findings BEFORE we invaded - and most of America knew it was about oil and reenge, not WMD. 

It's not stopping our nation from doing the same things - it's just that we all know the truth about it.  We can like it, or not like it.  Doesn't matter shit what we think lol... cause no matter who wins in 2008 - dems or repubs - we're going to do the same things.  So what can ya do but watch and have some popcorn?

[gcb]

I still can't help thinking there is a better way

In France they tried to bring in new laws for employment of young people. They didn't have the same rights or the same pay benefits as other people in the workforce. There were continual riots until the laws were overturned. I'm not suggesting that is the answer here but we aren't all completely powerless.

[vikingpower]

the truth is if this shit wasnt happening we would all be speaking chinese in some matter of time guarnteed

but dont think we are out of harms way, because what seems to be forgotten in this thread is the first point i brought up: greed

these guys do have amreekas future in mind, but it comes second to their greed and that could end up being their downfall ... look at every other major empire and youll see they over extend themselves and fall shortly after

[240 is Back]

the truth is if this shit wasnt happening we would all be speaking chinese in some matter of time guarnteed

but dont think we are out of the woodwork, because what seems to be forgotten in this thread is the first point i brought up: greed

these guys do have amreekas future in mind, but it comes second to their greed and that could end up being their downfall ... look at every other major empire and youll see they over extend themselves and fall shortly after

veep,

you're right about the chinese part.  And Bush buying all that land in paraguay isn't encouraging.

But all those corporate men have to have a place to live.  A US collapse means NO place on earth would be safe from chinese aggression, much less their mansions in Connecticut or Colorado.  A US collapse would kill the dollar, kill their portfolios, and above all, make them #1 on China's list when they came to US shores.

And I do think that Cheney loves America, as his recent speeches have been more about "making the world better for our children and grandchildren".

Honestly, I think they have two goals - Get really rich, and keep USA #1. 

I DON'T want chaos here in America - no f'king way.  I see idiots talking on boards about revolution - that is asinine.  Aside from the fact they'd be quickly isolated and liquidated, it wouldn't help our country.  Our enemies (not the kids in the sand - i mean the govts of China and Russia) would love an opportunity like that.

problem is, the alex joneses and loose change kids can't tell us what to do if Iran decided to close the persian gulf to cripple America.  They're right about the domestic BS.  but they need the wars to keep things going, sadly.

[vikingpower]

you appear to be suffering from helsinki syndrome

its not that they want the US to collapse, its that they have made such a big bubble and are so greedy they are basically asking for it ... weather it comes or not is another issue

[Bindare_Dundat]

(i liked this post so much i think it deserves its own thread ... joe and i were talking about the reason for the wars we are seeing in the mideast and he basically said my opinions were "bs conspriacy talk)

I think it's called the military industrial complex and  Dwight D. Eisenhower, talked about it way back in 1961 but people still don't know shit about it for the same reasons  stated at the bottom of your post.

"the sad thing is people like you(average joes) do not have the education, the desire, the patience and usually the capacity to understand these concepts "

[Eyeball Chambers]

Listen at 1:49, over and over. 


I'll go ahead and say it so Mr. I doesn't have to...

DUMB LIB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gcb]

Then what is the war about?

Democracy?
Security?
Oil?
Power?


Anyone who thinks it's about spreading democracy or security should stick to watching Mr Roger re-runs.

Maybe it's about "we'll do what we like and no one is going to stop us".

[egj13]

Maybe it's about "we'll do what we like and no one is going to stop us".

Is there really anything wrong with that? Survival of the fittest right?

[vikingpower]

apparently there are 3 amreekan soldiers who are about to learn about survival of the fittest first hand

[headhuntersix]

Have'nt u been hit by bus yet...

[egj13]

apparently there are 3 amreekan soldiers who are about to learn about survival of the fittest first hand

Tha't right, part of war

[headhuntersix]

Who makes u safer...the average American soldier or the average bomb vest wearing rag with hate for the west. And as I recalll...socialist Canada is part of the west. The radiation from the nukes they would love to set off here won't stop at the boarder.

[Hedgehog]

veep,

you're right about the chinese part.  And Bush buying all that land in paraguay isn't encouraging.

But all those corporate men have to have a place to live.  A US collapse means NO place on earth would be safe from chinese aggression, much less their mansions in Connecticut or Colorado.  A US collapse would kill the dollar, kill their portfolios, and above all, make them #1 on China's list when they came to US shores.

I think you're either a bit melodramatic or have a vivid imagination.

Or perhaps both.

I don't know where you're getting this idea that China would attack USA. Or that any country would do such thing, for that matter.

There's a situation in Iraq. But what evidence, or suggestions, are pointing in the direction that USA would be threatened by another country?

Not even North Korea, Iran or Cuba are making any kind of threats towards USA.

Calm down. There's a situation, yes. A big fcuking problem.

But it's not some kind of Hollywood blockbuster type of script we're writing here. We're discussing the real world. Not Die Hard 4.

Lots of people are dying and suffering in Iraq. I would say that is the biggest and most acute problem.

-Hedge

[headhuntersix]

Anybody who has economic ties with the US is not going to attack us...China is not a threat. Atleast for the short term. Russia would like to become more euro centric. Both countries realize that Islamic fundementalism is more a threat then we are. Money rules this issue