Chick the hypocrit athlete's rep

[texasbubba]

You are right, we are independant contractors, and thus, can CHOOSE whether to follow the IFBB's rules...or not. No one is forcing anyone to be a member, and If they don't want to abide by the rules set forth...they are free to join any other federation they wish...as you did.

If you have no regrets about your decision, then why are you still complaining...you left...end of story.

This was my point that he glossed over.  You can choose the IFBB and it rules and numerous contest or the PDI and it rules and single American contest.  Your choice, Lee.  We respect that, but for some it makes no sense.

[texasbubba]

ding ding ding

we have a winner


If the IFBB wants to take the risk of members leaving their organization....so be it.

Otherwise...if they (participants) want to be involved....take heed to their rules.

It has been more than a year and we have how many defectors?  My point exactly.  Why would a competitor leave an organization that offers him numerous opportunities to make money for one that has 1 shot?

[Vince B]

I think game theory can explain the self-interest of bodybuilders and the organizations they join or stay with.

What Lee is wondering is how come everyone doesn't see the obvious and stick together and then all benefit. Yes, if everyone did what Lee suggests the bodybuilders would ALL benefit and the pot of prize money would be much bigger. They would be free to enter any and all contests. Each bodybuilder knows this but then realizes is others do not join him by leaving the IFBB then he might be in a losing situation and in the minority. In the back of their minds they hope that quite a few will go to the PDI and then they will move up in the ranks. So, the rewards for leaving are not equal to what they might get if they stay. In other words, the risk is too great for the rewards. Thus, everyone is more or less staying put. The two biggest contests re prize money are in the IFBB so that is also a reward for many to put into the equation when deciding whether to go or stay.

They have an experiment in game theory using something similar to this. It goes like this. Suppose you and 10 or your closest mates or friends have an opportunity to make some easy money. A guy is running an experiment and invites you 11 people along. You are directed into 11 separate sound proof booths. Inside is a screen with instructions. You read the instructions and have 15 minutes to make up your mind. There are two buttons, one red and one green. If you push the red button you will instantly get $10,000. Each and every person who pushes the red button will receive the same $10,000.

However, if every single person cooperates and push the green button then everyone will get $50,000 each. The condition is that everyone must push the green button. If a single person pushes the red button then that person gets $10,000 and no one else gets a cent.

The question is which button would you push and how long would it take you to figure this out?

QED.

[Chick]

I think game theory can explain the self-interest of bodybuilders and the organizations they join or stay with.

What Lee is wondering is how come everyone doesn't see the obvious and stick together and then all benefit. Yes, if everyone did what Lee suggests the bodybuilders would ALL benefit and the pot of prize money would be much bigger. They would be free to enter any and all contests. Each bodybuilder knows this but then realizes is others do not join him by leaving the IFBB then he might be in a losing situation and in the minority. In the back of their minds they hope that quite a few will go to the PDI and then they will move up in the ranks. So, the rewards for leaving are not equal to what they might get if they stay. In other words, the risk is too great for the rewards. Thus, everyone is more or less staying put. The two biggest contests re prize money are in the IFBB so that is also a reward for many to put into the equation when deciding whether to go or stay.

They have an experiment in game theory using something similar to this. It goes like this. Suppose you and 10 or your closest mates or friends have an opportunity to make some easy money. A guy is running an experiment and invites you 11 people along. You are directed into 11 separate sound proof booths. Inside is a screen with instructions. You read the instructions and have 15 minutes to make up your mind. There are two buttons, one red and one green. If you push the red button you will instantly get $10,000. Each and every person who pushes the red button will receive the same $10,000.

However, if every single person cooperates and push the green button then everyone will get $50,000 each. The condition is that everyone must push the green button. If a single person pushes the red button then that person gets $10,000 and no one else gets a cent.

The question is which button would you push and how long would it take you to figure this out?

QED.

Your little "experiment", while amussing, doesn't accuratly reflect this particular situation as all kinds of variables are left out....

There is the Wayne factor...most athletes don't want anything to do with him as his tenure as the IFBB head honcho did little to make supporter out of them...He didn't believe the athletes (out of the top 10) at the Olympia deserved to get paid and now ask for their support? Fat chance...

Competing with the best is a huge factor as well as the history behind the former champs of the IFBB. Athletes may agree or disagree with many issues (as we all see here) but the one thing we ALL have in common.....is that we all met the criteria to turn professional and have earned the right to compete with our fellow pro's.

The money from purse is one thing...the opportunities to make money from the collateral insentives are another...being asociated with the NPC and having exposure ot the shows, expos, promoters, mag coverage, photo shoots, etc....all can lead to endorsement deals, guest posing, appearances, etc...

As Lee has found out...following a few sinmple rules has many more advantages than disadvantages. Supp contracts dried up, lost prize money, competing with amateurs, lost guest posings...clearly a blueprint that has lead the way to others NOT to follow. Lee has done harm than good byb way of example if his intent was to leed others to the promised land.

To each their own...not a tough decision to make.

[bigtraps]

Lee has done harm than good byb way of example if his intent was to leed others to the promised land.

Interesting grammar.

[G o a t b o y]

They have an experiment in game theory using something similar to this. It goes like this. Suppose you and 10 or your closest mates or friends have an opportunity to make some easy money. A guy is running an experiment and invites you 11 people along. You are directed into 11 separate sound proof booths. Inside is a screen with instructions. You read the instructions and have 15 minutes to make up your mind. There are two buttons, one red and one green. If you push the red button you will instantly get $10,000. Each and every person who pushes the red button will receive the same $10,000.

However, if every single person cooperates and push the green button then everyone will get $50,000 each. The condition is that everyone must push the green button. If a single person pushes the red button then that person gets $10,000 and no one else gets a cent.

The question is which button would you push and how long would it take you to figure this out?

QED.[/color]

Has this been tested in real life, Vince?

I would suspect that in most runs, most or all subjects press the red button.

I would be surprised if any run resulted in everyone pressing the green.

[Vince B]

If you make the stakes higher then everyone would press the red button. For example, a million dollars. Apparently this can help explain why trees are tall. The selfish ones grow taller whereas if everyone cooperated they wouldn't need to have huge trunks, etc. The few selfish individuals who benefit have the genes that get passed on.

Chick finally makes a good case for the IFBB and Lee's interest. Hard to argue about those facts.

I still think bodybuilding sucks. The reason steroids are still not tested is because if the IFBB did the testing another organization could get the top guys. Quite sad when you think about it.

By the way, Chick, you perfectly explain what I said earlier. You need the IFBB, they don't need you. Well, unless you do the job the way they want. The way you didn't help Lee will guarantee you the job for as long as you want it.

[Chick]

If you make the stakes higher then everyone would press the red button. For example, a million dollars. Apparently this can help explain why trees are tall. The selfish ones grow taller whereas if everyone cooperated they wouldn't need to have huge trunks, etc. The few selfish individuals who benefit have the genes that get passed on.

Chick finally makes a good case for the IFBB and Lee's interest. Hard to argue about those facts.

I still think bodybuilding sucks. The reason steroids are still not tested is because if the IFBB did the testing another organization could get the top guys. Quite sad when you think about it.

By the way, Chick, you perfectly explain what I said earlier. You need the IFBB, they don't need you. Well, unless you do the job the way they want. The way you didn't help Lee will guarantee you the job for as long as you want it.

1. Le never asked for my help.

2. There was nothing I could do for Lee, except make sure he was treated in a fair and just according to the rules...he was.

3. Lee's batle cry of "follow me, boys..." was met by crickets chirping and noone else sharing his "vision" for the reasons outlined.

4. I was more than willing to propose changing the rules on behalf of the athletes...unfortunately for Lee...there were no others at the time that wished to join his platform...

I think the numbers support what I'm saying...

[Vince B]

Surely, Bob, you are above that sort of logic. What the bodybuilders do or don't support isn't as important as what is good for the sport. If you continue to have contest after contest controversial then something major is wrong with the judging process and judges. Also, drugs are against the rules and those rules should be enforced for everyone's benefit. The history of the sport saw a few major organizations competing for the bodybuilders and the IFBB prevailed for one reason or another. Those involved will hardly change what helped them dominate the sport in the first place.

I would love to see kids admire musclemen again. Goodness knows they look for heroes but the drugs business ruins any chance of our being accepted. It really is a shame. In the meantime, nothing I write will make the slightest difference.

It's 3am in Sydney so I am off to bed.

[onlyme]

It has been more than a year and we have how many defectors?  My point exactly.  Why would a competitor leave an organization that offers him numerous opportunities to make money for one that has 1 shot?

Was wondering Blubber, how much money have you put into sponsoring BB contests.  A man with so much money and so much passion for BB I am sure has given at least $1,000,000 over the past 10 years.  Please go ahead and brag would be interested in seeing if you back up your passion like I have.