No prize money for pro shows?

[The Squadfather]

the problem is there is no advertising$$$$ in bodybuilding the way there is for other sports and that's where the real money comes from.

[Disgusted]

Gotcha...I see your premise, but it wouldn't work for obvious reasons. I've got a few ideas of my own I've been working on, unfortunately, I cant really get into the details...

BUT...I think there are various ways to increase the earning power of athletes...one way is to try and have a "best entertainer" award, or a "best poser" award, or even the old "bodypart" prizes...some of the promoters have already been starting to do this....we (BB.com) have also had a "people's choice" winner for the fans to decide for themselves...

Not sure why you don't think it would work but, until the day comes that bodybuilding is hugely popular it is an unfortunate fact the we have to figure out ways to make it more lucrative for guys to compete.

One thing that kinda bothered me was the Colorado show last year. No, I am NOT picking on Sean. They gave away a hummer I think correct? Maybe leased it whatever. How does doing something like this benefit the guys who are competing and spending thousands to do so? Hell, if the promotors wanted to make more money selling tickets then forget about having a bodybuilding show, which seems secondary anyway and just sell tickets to the general public for the Hummer.

[Matt C]

We get our market value in life.

I suspect that for the lower level shows, the market value may in fact be $0.  I don't think it would stop anyone from competing if there was no prize money.

If I was a promoter and could take the risk, I would give it a try and see how it works.  If it did (and I think it would), it would eliminate the need for prize money at these shows and allow the promoters to use that money more efficiently elsewhere.  Capitalism = 1, bodybuilders = 0

[Bigger Business]

but also know that they are spending a sizable amount of income to be there.

Most Bodybuilders live beyond their means for no apparent reason. however most of them don't really have a 'life' either so they don't incur expenses like those of us who prefer a more social lifestyle. they don't really go anywhere but have to turn up in a Mercedes or an Escalade to train. its important to be passionate about things in your life...but its more important to be passionate about life

prize money stays...these cats need all the help they can get

[Luv2Hurt]

Most Bodybuilders live beyond their means for no apparent reason. however most of them don't really have a 'life' either so they don't incur expenses like those of us who prefer a more social lifestyle. they don't really go anywhere but have to turn up in a Mercedes or an Escalade to train. its important to be passionate about things in your life...but its more important to be passionate about life

prize money stays...these cats need all the help they can get

That may be how they enjoy their lives, everyone is different in that reguard.

[Disgusted]

Most Bodybuilders live beyond their means for no apparent reason. however most of them don't really have a 'life' either so they don't incur expenses like those of us who prefer a more social lifestyle. they don't really go anywhere but have to turn up in a Mercedes or an Escalade to train. its important to be passionate about things in your life...but its more important to be passionate about life

prize money stays...these cats need all the help they can get

You are missing my point bro. The top guys are making on average 70,000 a year and that is NOT from prize money and remember that they are the ones getting the prize money on top of sponsership. The "cats" that you should be talking about are the ones who are spending large amounts of money and never getting anything in return.

[The Squadfather]

You are missing my point bro. The top guys are making on average 70,000 a year and that is NOT from prize money and remember that they are the ones getting the prize money on top of sponsership. The "cats" that you should be talking about are the ones who are spending large amounts of money and never getting anything in return.

i thought Ronnie claimed he was making millions from BSN.

[Disgusted]

i thought Ronnie claimed he was making millions from BSN.

Yep, along with Paul Dillet. 

[The Squadfather]

Yep, along with Paul Dillet. 

hahahahaha, it was 4.2 wih paul and if you don't believe him he'll flip you off in MD in front of his neighbors Escalades.

[Matt C]

hahahahaha, it was 4.2 wih paul and if you don't believe him he'll flip you off in MD in front of his neighbors Escalades.

Bob claimed 4.3 million with bodybuilding.com on mayhem but I think he was joking about it, but you couldn't really tell from his post lol.  He said he was going to pay for somebody's lunch given that he just got the contract and was rolling in the money at the moment.  Somebody asked Bob what he was doing for bodybuilding.com to earn so much, and I expected him to come in and say he was joking (Re: Paul's claim), and wasn't actually making that, but when he realized people actually believe him, I think he intentionally didn't reply lol.

A google search revealed this:


http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=277678

[benchthis]

bob sucks 

[Bigger Business]

You are missing my point bro. The top guys are making on average 70,000 a year and that is NOT from prize money and remember that they are the ones getting the prize money on top of sponsership. The "cats" that you should be talking about are the ones who are spending large amounts of money and never getting anything in return.

I understand your point but you seem to have missed mine. These guys and gals are living beyond their means...its all good and well to invest in your passion be it a business or whatever but if its a sinking ship you gotta bail. bodybuilding is their business...if its bad its time to find something else...most of these folk don't know when to quit.

untill you're making a living from something it is just a hobby.

[1Fast400]

If pro shows are going to work, the IFBB has to quit charging so much for the "rights" to do it.  The IFBB is making enough money in other area's, they shouldn't rip promoters off as well.  The whole things is a family rigged nightmare.

[The.Giant]

It's pretty obvious that the best way to get more money to the competitors is to eliminate competition boundaries.

The pro's should be able to compete in any federation they want. Competition between businesses results in a better product.

This won't happen though, because it's bad for the Weiders and their monopoly.

[Matt C]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=277678

How many years is Bob's contract for?

[1Fast400]

I don't think people realize if you want to host a complete show, with the minimum prize purse, you're looking at 70,000 dollars.  There is a reason small pro shows have npc shows attached.  NPC shows are the ONLY way to make money.  NPC shows bring 2-3 family members per athlete.  On the pro level, nobody comes to watch pro bb'ers (unless it's the arnold/O). 

So you have 70k in "sanction" fee's and prize purse.  Other random expenses: lighting, stage, dressing rooms, hotel rooms for judges, various food expenses along with a list of other things. 

Now you show me a small show that is going to make enough profit to cover 80k worth of expenses?

[Wombat]

You are missing my point bro. The top guys are making on average 70,000 a year and that is NOT from prize money and remember that they are the ones getting the prize money on top of sponsership. The "cats" that you should be talking about are the ones who are spending large amounts of money and never getting anything in return.

then why take the money away?  Just split it up more evenly...Instead of the winner getting 20Gs, drop it to 10 and give more down the line...

The focus needs to be on the judging...These shows need to be judged the way we all know they could be...And their should be atleast two weight classes...

[Matt C]

As in any proper business model, supply must equal demand in order for it to be a progressive one.  Pros need to get their market value, whether that be $0 or $100,000.  I suspect it would be closer to $0.

As for WHY no one wants to go to bodybuilding shows, it used to annoy the hell out of me when TA would make comments as to why bodybuilding doesn't sell and try to analyze the situation.  This is simple: NO ONE WANTS TO SEE MUSCULAR MEN ON STAGE POSING AND FLEXING.  IT'S BORING AS SHIT.  Even to a person like myself who is about as much of a fan of bodybuilding as you can get.  It just isn't exciting.  I'm making sure this is emphasized because hopefully it isn't questioned again.

I would never travel to a bodybuilding show unless it is attached to a huge expo for networking purposes.  I think promoters would be best to target fans in the same city the show is being held at so that the net costs of attending the show equal the net benefit gained from attendance.  I don't think that is possible for most fans who are not from the same city, barring the top three expos - the Olympia, Arnold, and Fit Expo (at the Ironman).  Tim Fogarty brought up the benefits of targeting to the same city when he talked about the Ironman increasing attendance.

[whitewidow]

Other than the Olympia and the Arnold Classic for obvious reasons I think that the rest of the pro shows should have no prize money. Now, before everyone gets their panties in a bunch here are my thoughts. First I am not 100% sure that this is the best thing to do just some food for thought.

About 90% of the guys who enter these shows not only realize that they are not going to make the top 5, but also know that they are spending a sizable amount of income to be there. The are not entering these shows for the money. Most are doing it to qualify and the rest are doing it because they love what they do. Most pay their way and are not sponsored. Almost always the top guys who win are the sponsored guys anyway so even though they are making some money they are also looking to qualify first and are making a good income already.

The next thing to consider would be who would enter these shows if there was no money. Like I stated already there are plenty of guy who need to qualify so there would be no lack of competitors. Most of the top guys won't be there anyway since they have already qualified at the Olympia and AC. I think that instead of handing out prize money the promotors should pay for a certain amount of the expenses. Maybe hotel and food and plane tickets if possible for all of the competitors.

I think this is a really bad idea.

[Matt C]

I think this is a really bad idea.

Care to elaborate?

[whitewidow]

Care to elaborate?

It makes no sense. hes basically saying lets degrade these guys even further. if you dont have a good sponsor then maybe you should reconsider your career or the show your doing otherwise plan on it coming out of your own pocket. I remember kamali saying right around the time he turned pro that he refused to step on stage again without a sponsor backing him as he was sick of paying for the prep. athletes need to toughen up or find a new line of work. if your good people will pay!

[1Fast400]

If someone got into bodybuilding expecting to make a lot of money from stepping on stage, their just stupid. 

[Matt C]

If someone got into bodybuilding expecting to make a lot of money from stepping on stage, their just stupid. 

What is the market value for bodybuilders in contest?  I would assume certainly no more than the total 20K prize purse given at the lower level shows.