Author Topic: A utopian Libertarian future  (Read 3794 times)

The Enigma

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Re: A utopian Libertarian future
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2007, 05:34:10 PM »
I beg to differ, Wal Mart is extremely fair when it comes to wages. Here in MT, the starting wage is $8.45 at wal-mart. That truly isn't bad for the work that is done there and one of the nicer paying jobs 

Ok, let's do the math........gasoline 4.00 per gallon.

Walmart "associate" 8.45 per hour w/o benefits.  :o

Why the Fvck did I attend college ?


egj13

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Re: A utopian Libertarian future
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2007, 05:38:59 PM »
Ok, let's do the math........gasoline 4.00 per gallon.

Walmart "associate" 8.45 per hour w/o benefits.  :o

Why the Fvck did I attend college ?



Hey I'm not saying I'm going to quit the AF and work at walmart, but these people are stocking shelves and scanning cans/bottles. How much is that really worth? Take a drive through beautiful Great Falls and tell me if these people aren't happy to make $8.45 as opposed to 6 comething at McDs

militarymuscle69

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Re: A utopian Libertarian future
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2007, 05:17:53 AM »
Well then I suppose GM auto workers (those who still have jobs in this country) should vote to disband the union in order to make better wages.  ::)

no fool, they should not disband, but they should stop being greedy so that general motors can lower the price of cars and remain competitive with companies like Toyota.
gotta love life

Decker

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Re: A utopian Libertarian future
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2007, 06:46:24 AM »
If you are unhappy about your salary, then get an education in a field that has more to offer.

Fair wages are a product of the market..  but of course there should be a minimum wage determined by economists to make sure employers don't take advantage of laborers.

And I see nothing wrong with outsourcing. Get into another field if you lost your job to Raji Jugdish in India.
You are making a case for what's known as 'income mobility' where people better their earning power through education and training and move up the pay scale.

Unfortunately, as Judge Smails points out in CaddyShack, "the world needs ditch diggers too." 

Many people do not have the capability to rise above ditch digger status.

If the world needs ditch diggers and many of those people are necessarily limited to that position b/c of limited ability, why should they be relegated to second class status with no benefits or such?

It is in the best interests of the US to have a healthy (insured) and reasonably compensated workforce.  The alternative, economic strife, affects crime and death rates for the underclass.

Decker

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Re: A utopian Libertarian future
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2007, 07:24:15 AM »
no fool, they should not disband, but they should stop being greedy so that general motors can lower the price of cars and remain competitive with companies like Toyota.
It is a complex problem.  Oursourcing, relocation, trade agreements and the general effects of globalization have affected all our markets.  Wages have been depressed since the early 1970s while executive compensation has grown exponentially.

Look at this and think about who is greedy:

GM Chairman earns $9.57 million in 2006http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2007-04-27-1306366335_x.htm

General Motors Trims 25,000 From Payroll: Is It Enough?http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2005/06/08/general-motors-trims-from-payroll-is-it-enough


Here is how GM characterizes it's problem:
At the annual shareholders’ meeting last May, General Motors’ Chairman Roger B. Smith said that  not even great technology and the magic of robots can overcome the competitive disadvantage of high American labor costs: at GM hourly workers earn $8.00 an hour more than their Japanese counterparts. http://www.kelsoinstitute.org/gm.html

The average auto executive got a 22% pay raise last year resulting in an average annual income of about $4.2 million per auto executive.http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070506/BUSINESS01/705060621/1014/BUSINESS


Camel Jockey

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Re: A utopian Libertarian future
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2007, 08:41:13 AM »
Quote
Unfortunately, as Judge Smails points out in CaddyShack, "the world needs ditch diggers too." 

Many people do not have the capability to rise above ditch digger status.

If the world needs ditch diggers and many of those people are necessarily limited to that position b/c of limited ability, why should they be relegated to second class status with no benefits or such?

It is in the best interests of the US to have a healthy (insured) and reasonably compensated workforce.  The alternative, economic strife, affects crime and death rates for the underclass.

Limited ability may be the result of lower IQ or laziness.

Our country has grants and financial aid for those wishing to recieve an education. It's one thing that we should fund more, as opposed to nonsense like welfare. There is an opportunity to pull yourself out of the gutter in this country.

The US workforce is well compensated... They get what they're worth. And I disagree about the affect on the underclass.

I diasgree with you about the affect on the underclass.. Many immigrants work themselves up and out of the gutter, working jobs that have no benefits what so ever. You don't hear complaints from a cabby who's driving 50-60 hours a week for a lousy $1,000 a week. But it's always the fucking labor union workers who are complaining despite having pensions, sick days and what not.

The only underclass demographic it seems to affect are black and hispanics. They have the highest crime rates and most social problems. Their fellow underclassmen, such as asian immigrants don't seem to be having the same problems, despite facing more adversity. Thus we can determine it's a cultural problem within their groups, and not results of economic inequity.

w8tlftr

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Re: A utopian Libertarian future
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2007, 07:07:43 PM »
A person works at WalMart because they can't get a better job.  Regardless, the social-financial issue involves "who should profit from the work required in creating and selling the goods?"  Libertarians are fine with as much profit as possible going to the owners- to hell with the workers.  A socialist, humanistic economic view believes that the workers should share fairly in the profit.  Such is the point of having a minimum wage that provides a "living wage" for workers. 

Why defend unlimited profits for fat cats making money off others' labor?  Why don't the non-rich understand this?  Good brainwashing by corporate media. 

Hey how's the Barista from Starbucks you bought working, Mr. Anti-Corporate?


Laughing Sam's Dice

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Re: A utopian Libertarian future
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2007, 09:25:59 AM »
Hey how's the Barista from Starbucks you bought working, Mr. Anti-Corporate?

I buy gasoline, too.   :-[
Stick out your tongue.

Camel Jockey

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Re: A utopian Libertarian future
« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2007, 09:32:54 AM »
I buy gasoline, too.   :-[

Move to Cali so you can take up residents inside a giant redwood.  ;D

Laughing Sam's Dice

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Re: A utopian Libertarian future
« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2007, 09:36:36 AM »
I'm in Cali, encroaching into a canyon.  Deer walk around the neighborhood.  Bad human.  :(
Stick out your tongue.