Yet Another Biblical Contradiction

[columbusdude82]

Dear loco,

Please put your exquisite gifts of denial to work at explaining how this is NOT a contradiction. Thank you. 

Matthew 27:5 "So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself."

Acts 1:18 "With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out."

So did he throw the money or buy a field? Did he hand himself or burst open?

Do we believe Luke or do we believe Matthew?

[The Coach]

I just posted this on the G&O


No conflicts, people who denie conflicts of the Bible try to use one scripture to try to conflict another scripture, any biblical scolor can tell that the Bible was written with amazing accruacy and there are no conflicts. Too much archeological literature has been found to doubt the Bible's accuracy. 

[OzmO]

Looks pretty conflicting to me. 

But if you are one who denies these things in the face of facts then no amount of reason, logic, evidence etc... will change your mind. 

[beatmaster]

Contemplate the contradictions

A thoughtful person who thinks about God cannot help but notice the amazing contradictions. They are everywhere you look.

Here is one very simple example. On the day Moses comes down from Mount Sinai with the stone tablets containing the Ten Commandments, he discovers that the Israelites have created a golden calf. To punish the people, Moses gathers a group of men and takes the following action in the book of Exodus, Chapter 32:

Then he [Moses] said to them, "This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.' " The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died.
So... one minute we have God carving into stone, "Thou shalt not kill." Then the next minute we have God telling each man to strap a sword to his side and lay waste to thousands. Wouldn't you expect the almighty ruler of the universe to be slightly more consistent than this? 3,000 dead people is a lot of commandment breaking. Obviously that is a total contradiction. The reason why you find contradictions like that in the Bible is because God is imaginary...

[MCWAY]

Dear loco,

Please put your exquisite gifts of denial to work at explaining how this is NOT a contradiction. Thank you. 

Matthew 27:5 "So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself."

Acts 1:18 "With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out."

So did he throw the money or buy a field? Did he hand himself or burst open?

Do we believe Luke or do we believe Matthew?

Another "oldie but goodie" skeptic claim.....another easy rebuttal.

Notice that Luke states, "With the reward he got for his wickedness.........". What wickedness would that be? Betraying Jesus, of course. Matthew states that when Judas tried to give the money to the priests, the priests told him that they could not take it, as it was blood money. Since they could not add such to the treasury nor could they accept property purchased with such, guess who got credited with the "Field of Blood": JUDAS!!!


Judas' act of treachery procured the 30 pieces of silver, and Judas' money was used to buy that field. So, Luke's stating that Judas bought the field hardly contradicts Matthew's account. As for how he died, did it ever occur to you that, if he hung himself till death on a tree and the limb snapped, that his bowels would explode and spill on the ground upon impact?

[MCWAY]

Contemplate the contradictions

A thoughtful person who thinks about God cannot help but notice the amazing contradictions. They are everywhere you look.

Here is one very simple example. On the day Moses comes down from Mount Sinai with the stone tablets containing the Ten Commandments, he discovers that the Israelites have created a golden calf. To punish the people, Moses gathers a group of men and takes the following action in the book of Exodus, Chapter 32:

Then he [Moses] said to them, "This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.' " The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died.
So... one minute we have God carving into stone, "Thou shalt not kill." Then the next minute we have God telling each man to strap a sword to his side and lay waste to thousands. Wouldn't you expect the almighty ruler of the universe to be slightly more consistent than this? 3,000 dead people is a lot of commandment breaking. Obviously that is a total contradiction. The reason why you find contradictions like that in the Bible is because God is imaginary...

Of course, none of our skeptic buddies here seem to notice Israel's commandment breaking, namely commiting adultery, covetousness, and of course, putting other gods before God. This would be the same God, who gave them all that gold in the first place, and delivered them from of slavery in Egypt. And He did so,  without the Israelites having to lift one sword in battle. Yet, in verse 4, they are actually crediting the calf for freeing them from Egypt. (Funny!!! They weren't praying to the golden "Bessie" for deliverance, when Pharoah was beating their behinds for four centuries, now were they?).

The commandments also mention something about not worshipping graven images or bowing down and worshipping them and punishing those that do unto the third and fourth generation. In fact, had Moses not lobbied on their behalf, FAR MORE Israelites would have been wiped out, excluding Moses and his family. Considering that over 600,000 men left Egypt, punishing 3,000 of them (<0.5%, if my math's correct), is quite merciful.

Has anyone ever considered that during all this debauchery, women may have been assaulted and raped? And, if they were mimicking other cultures around them, human sacrifice would be part of their newly-acquired worshipping habits (BTW, rape and human sacrifice were captial offenses, in case you missed it). With all of that taken into consideration, it's a wonder that, again, only 3,000 of them got put down.

[OzmO]

As for how he died, did it ever occur to you that, if he hung himself till death on a tree and the limb snapped, that his bowels would explode and spill on the ground upon impact?

ahh no.  Quite impossible. 

[OzmO]

Of course, none of our skeptic buddies here seem to notice Israel's commandment breaking, namely commiting adultery, covetousness, and of course, putting other gods before God. This would be the same God, who gave them all that gold in the first place, and delivered them from of slavery in Egypt. And He did so,  without the Israelites having to lift one sword in battle. Yet, in verse 4, they are actually crediting the calf for freeing them from Egypt. (Funny!!! They weren't praying to the golden "Bessie" for deliverance, when Pharoah was beating their behinds for four centuries, now were they?).

The commandments also mention something about not worshipping graven images or bowing down and worshipping them and punishing those that do unto the third and fourth generation. In fact, had Moses not lobbied on their behalf, FAR MORE Israelites would have been wiped out, excluding Moses and his family. Considering that over 600,000 men left Egypt, punishing 3,000 of them (<0.5%, if my math's correct), is quite merciful.

Has anyone ever considered that during all this debauchery, women may have been assaulted and raped? And, if they were mimicking other cultures around them, human sacrifice would be part of their newly-acquired worshipping habits (BTW, rape and human sacrifice were captial offenses, in case you missed it). With all of that taken into consideration, it's a wonder that, again, only 3,000 of them got put down.

Based on the information given, not your or anyone else's conjecture, the story says moses on orders from god order 3000 men be killed for making a golden calf becuase they got insecure and lost faith.  In any situation anywhere int he world, that would be considered either mass murder or a war crime.

The punishment of death versus their transgression is way out of proportion.

[MCWAY]

Based on the information given, not your or anyone else's conjecture, the story says moses on orders from god order 3000 men be killed for making a golden calf becuase they got insecure and lost faith.  In any situation anywhere int he world, that would be considered either mass murder or a war crime.

The punishment of death versus their transgression is way out of proportion.

Says who? Do you really think that the transgression by the Israelites involved them merely bowing before a image of a shiny cow?

The passage itself states that such was not the case. Verse 25 stated that people were naked and that Aaron (Moses' brother) made them naked unto shame among their enemies. Based on that, and the practices of some of the ancient cultures around Israel, this sounds like giant orgy. And, unless every single person participating in such did so voluntarily, it's safe to say that some of those women were violated. And, if rape and adultery are involved, those were CAPITAL offenses by law.

And lest we forget, Moses gave the people the opportunity to repent, in verse 28. "Who is on the Lord side? Let him come unto me!!" Had those 3000+ repented, they would have been spared.

Speaking of conjecture, that's exactly what you're using with your "war crime" spiel, comparing our practices with those of the ancients.

ahh no.  Quite impossible. 

Impossible for a dead guy, swinging from a tree by his neck, to fall from a snapping branch and have his bloated corpse splatter upon impact? And this is because.........

[columbusdude82]

Oh my, Oh my... aren't we squirming like the pope in a strip club struggling to pull out explanations out of thin air...

McWay, are you trying to say that your gift of denial by far outshines loco's? If so, I'd like to see you two slug it out to see who can come up with the most deranged, far-fetched explanation of how this first post is not a contradiction

[MCWAY]

Oh my, Oh my... aren't we squirming like the pope in a strip club struggling to pull out explanations out of thin air...

McWay, are you trying to say that your gift of denial by far outshines loco's? If so, I'd like to see you two slug it out to see who can come up with the most deranged, far-fetched explanation of how this first post is not a contradiction

Squirimg about what? As I said, this canard is old.....and so is its rather easy rebuttal.

This pitiful claim of contradictions has seen dismantled before and can be dismantled yet again.

Whose money was used to buy the field? JUDAS!!!

Whose acts of treachery was responsible for that money being acquired, in the first place (Luke called it the wages of iniquity)?  JUDAS!!

Whose strung himself up, as a result of having "betrayed innocent blood"? JUDAS!!


Again, the priests stated they could not keep that money, because it was blood money. Nor could they keep any property bought with such (why else would an abandoned field be procured to bury dead people). Therefore, the short answer is that the field was purchased in Judas' name.

Given it was the Passover, shortly before the Sabbath of the Passover, who was going to ritually defile himself by taking Judas' corpse down (Remember that old saying, "Cursed is everyone who hangs from a tree!").

As usual, a simple explanation, using the data from BOTH texts, gives a clearer picture of what went down. And, another tired skeptic claim bites the dust.

[columbusdude82]

So, McWay, did Judas throw the money in the temple, or use it to buy a field?

[Butterbean]

So, McWay, did Judas throw the money in the temple, or use it to buy a field?

Matthew 14-16:  Then one of the Twelve—the one called Judas Iscariot—went to the chief priests and asked, "What are you willing to give me if I hand him over to you?" So they counted out for him thirty silver coins. From then on Judas watched for an opportunity to hand him over.

Matthew 27:3-10
When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders. "I have sinned," he said, "for I have betrayed innocent blood."
     
"What is that to us?" they replied. "That's your responsibility."

So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.

The chief priests picked up the coins and said, "It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money." So they decided to use the money to buy the potter's field as a burial place for foreigners. That is why it has been called the Field of Blood to this day. Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "They took the thirty silver coins, the price set on him by the people of Israel, and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the Lord commanded me."

[Butterbean]

ahh no.  Quite impossible. 

Why would that be impossible? 

[OzmO]

The chief priests picked up the coins and said, "It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money." So they decided to use the money to buy the potter's field as a burial place for foreigners.


 

the priests bought the field then.

Why would that be impossible?

A hung person would not explode if they fell from a tree, it could however have happened as McWay says if the body was decomposing, but i'm not too sure of it.

[columbusdude82]

Stella, you say the priests bought the field. That contradicts Acts! (See the first post.)

Which is it? Did the priests buy the field or did Judas?

[loco]

McWay, are you trying to say that your gift of denial by far outshines loco's?

columbusdude82,
Your gift of denial by far outshines anybody's.   

[loco]

it could however have happened as McWay says if the body was decomposing, but i'm not too sure of it.

OzmO,
Then why did you say "impossible" if you are not even sure?

[columbusdude82]

columbusdude82,
Your gift of denial by far outshines anybody's.   

Why evadest thou the question?

What was Judas' cause of death? And who bought the field?

[loco]

Why evadest thou the question?

What was Judas' cause of death? And who bought the field?

See what I mean?  MCWAY gave you the answer,

But thou shall denyest the truth either way.

[columbusdude82]

Another "oldie but goodie" skeptic claim.....another easy rebuttal.

Notice that Luke states, "With the reward he got for his wickedness.........". What wickedness would that be? Betraying Jesus, of course. Matthew states that when Judas tried to give the money to the priests, the priests told him that they could not take it, as it was blood money. Since they could not add such to the treasury nor could they accept property purchased with such, guess who got credited with the "Field of Blood": JUDAS!!!


Judas' act of treachery procured the 30 pieces of silver, and Judas' money was used to buy that field. So, Luke's stating that Judas bought the field hardly contradicts Matthew's account. As for how he died, did it ever occur to you that, if he hung himself till death on a tree and the limb snapped, that his bowels would explode and spill on the ground upon impact?

Here's McWay's post. Consider the sentence in bold. Notice how McWay evades the question: Did Judas buy the field? He just says that Judas's money was used to buy the field.

Now consider the part in italics. You cannot seriously believe that. He invents out of thin air the possibility of the branch snapping, and out of thinner air the possibility that, if the branch snaps, the impact of falling would make his bowels explode!!!

What was Judas's cause of death?
1. "He Hanged himself"
2. "he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out."

You can't die twice, so it has to be one or the other.

[OzmO]

OzmO,
Then why did you say "impossible" if you are not even sure?

re-read my post.

If he was hung and died and shortly thereafter the limb broke then it is impossible with the information given that his would have burst out upon impact.  However it might be possible if the body was there for a few days and bloated, but i'm not sure.

I'm sure you understood what i posted.

[OzmO]

Now can anyone answer the questions with out side stepping into debate tactics 101?

1.  How did Judas die,  falling headlong into a field or by hanging?
2.  Did he give the money to the temple or buy a field with it?

Can anyone answer directly?  which is it?!!!!!!

[Dos Equis]

I'll answer:  who cares?  I can't believe people spend so much time trying to find ridiculous "contradictions" like this in the Bible. 

Good grief . . . .   

[tu_holmes]

I'll answer:  who cares?  I can't believe people spend so much time trying to find ridiculous "contradictions" like this in the Bible. 

Good grief . . . .   

Well, I think it has much more to do with people saying how "infallible" the book is and using the book as the end all be all of what they believe in their lives.

I think these types of conversations are interesting and thought provoking, plus, maybe we learn something in the process.