Author Topic: If God ordered you to kill a child..........  (Read 22182 times)

OzmO

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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #125 on: November 27, 2007, 09:43:31 AM »

That brings us back to the point: The Amalekites sins caused judgment to be handed to them. And their children suffered as well


No, not at all, the Children needlessly suffered and were given an undue punishment.  they were murdered and slaughtered and it wasn't neccessary (which it never is).

To dismiss it as an consequence is barbaric and shows a lack of morality.

Hence:  not godly.

 
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The foundation of his beliefs hasn't fallen apart in over 2000 years. I seriously doubt it's going to fall apart now, simply due to the wailing of Biblical skeptics.


I wasn't suggesting it was falling apart, My point was that in order for him to have common sense would mean his and your foundation of beliefs would dissolve or fall apart.  So in way you are locked into this barbaric immoral way of thinking that says there is justification for killing innocent children if their parents have sinned.

How would that fly today McVay?  Would that kind of behavior be considered Christian?  I think not.  It would be worse than 9/11.

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Anyone can write anything. To have those writings preserved and validated in history over thousands of years is quite another thing. The Bible has that; Zeus' book, whatever it is, does not.

I think the oldest known writings are Sumerian text on clay tablets.  But what ever the case, there are many ancient religious writings so that's a moot point really.   Further more how do you qualify validated?   Writings that identify an ancient city in turn prove that someone lived in the belly of a whale for 3 days?   ::)

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Now, you're claiming that God isn't omnipotent, simply because He didn't do things the way YOU THINK He should have done them. That's rich!



My Point is, there was a better more MORAL way to deal with the problem, but you believe it was God who dealt with it this way when he has all this power.

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Plus, as FreakShow also mentioned (and I have, on multiple occasions), in certain instances, the sins of the fathers affect the children. You aren't the only one who pays for your trangressions. On a larger and more tragic scale, that's what happened to the Amalekites.

Well you both are living in the stone age,  Society has far progressed from that and realizes that killing innocent children regardless of the sins of the parents is wrong and immoral.   (I guess the God of the OT was still immature  ::))

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The Bible had nothing to do with the actions of the Crusaders of the Third Reich, anymore than converting Africans to Christianity had anything to with whites subjecting blacks to chattel slavery hundreds of years ago.

It has everything to do with it.  That's where they get their justification.  If the book was written properly people wouldn't get instructions on how to trade and train slaves, how to be angry and jealous, or how to murder children instead of finding a solution.

Yes, it's the Bible that has helped to sanctify and legitimatize much of the suffering we've seen in the world in our history,  Murder, slavery, repression, displacement etc....

What if the Bible only contained the commandments and the NT?   Slavery would have been abolished much sooner, displacing families and nations wouldn't have been thought to be proper, murdering on the scale of the crusades wouldn't been done with religious justification and in turn probably not happen on the scale it did.

Yes, this book has help to as much bad as it has done to do much good.

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Threatening somebody else? That's part of the point. The Amalekites weren't just threatening the Israelites; they're were flat-out assaulting them and had been doing such for three centuries. They had a chance to repent, to apologize, to make amends. They got worse, instead of better. God placed judgment on them; they got wiped out.

If you get warned of the consequences of certain actions and continue your course, then you're subject to have those consequences

Again we are talking about the kids, a hard thing for even thumpers to swallow that's why you keep thinking i"m talking about the parents.

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And God isn't supposed to feel anything, because His chosen people, who prayed for Him to deliver them from slavery and bondage (and did so, without one Jew dying in combat) are now using the very treasure (that He gave them from the Egyptians) to make a golden calf and credit it for their deliverance?

As I said before, the Israelites weren't praying to "Bessie", when Pharoah had his foot in their behinds.

And, based on the religious practices of Israel's neighbors, human sacrifice and sexual perversion were likely involved in Israel's newfound (but short-lived) praise ceremonies. To top it all off, Moses offered the idolators a chance to repent, Who is on the Lord's side? Let him come to me!. Those who did were spared; those who didn't..........

God is supposed to be in control of his emotions at the very least.  If not he's certainly not a God (which is my point about the OT not being the WOG)  Not like some raged mad-man. 

 ::)

Thump  ::)

That's just stupid McVay.

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Subject to whose morality, yours or that of God? It's His creation. He can do with it, as He sees fit, whether you or any other skeptic likes it or not.

God wisdom to be Godly would not include hypocrisy.

Its a principle.   

Talk the talk and walk the walk.

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The second commandment states that God visits the iniquity of those that hate Him unto the third and fourth generations. The greater the sin, unfortunately, the more people get affected by it. Certain sins carry grave consequences, which are not just limited to the transgressors.

huh?

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Now, that's an analogy that doesn't make sense, especially in light of the Amalekite scenario. What was not proportional about the judgment handed to Amalek? Samuel said it best, when dealing with King Agag (king of Amalek). His sword made women childless; now his mother (and mothers of his people) would be made childless. The Amalekites killed women and children, unapologetically for hundreds of years; now their women and children would meet the same fate, as would they.

Again, you fail to see I'm talking about the children.

McVay talk all that logic or what ever you call it and apply it to a scenario today.   How outrageous would that be?

But you can't get that can you?   to do so, would mean to question the Bible, the word.....

You know it's a good thing people like you aren't in power.  Because many innocent people might die from this righteousness crap.


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Your entire complaint is based simply on your disliking the severity of the consequences, metted on a group of people (the Amalekites) for their continued disobedience and disregard.

Again it's about innocent children, something you can't seem to get,  children you would have killed.

rockyfortune

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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #126 on: November 27, 2007, 09:59:38 AM »
it would be my duty as a christian soldier...


Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,
   with the cross of Jesus going on before.
   Christ, the royal Master, leads against the foe;
   forward into battle see his banners go!
footloose and fancy free

The Freakshow

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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #127 on: November 27, 2007, 12:27:23 PM »

Again it's about innocent children, something you can't seem to get,  children you would have killed.

Something to ponder; If God created the children, doesn't He have the right to do with them what He choses??

It never ceases to amaze me at how most people look at God. They treat God as if He is obligated to act the way "they" think He should. They talk about Him as if He is just another person, they talk down at Him and disrespect Him. They don't even think about the fact that He is the Creator of the universe, He is holy. Think about the fact that they couldn't even stand in His presence because they are not worthy. Even Moses who God gave the Ten Commandments, hit the ground with His face in the dirt because He couldn't even look at God's splendor, holiness and His majesty. Yet people talk about God as if they would tell Him a thing or two. Give me a break!

Something to think about.

OzmO

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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #128 on: November 27, 2007, 12:49:05 PM »
Something to ponder; If God created the children, doesn't He have the right to do with them what He choses??



No he doesn't if he at the same time tells you to love thy neighbor, do on to others, thou shalt not kill, etc....    No entity or being is above the morality they impose on others with out becoming a hypocrite.

Use some logic:

1.  This God described in the OT is a hypocrite
2.  God is not a hypocrite
3.  therefore the Bible is not the infallible WOG





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It never ceases to amaze me at how most people look at God. They treat God as if He is obligated to act the way "they" think He should. They talk about Him as if He is just another person, they talk down at Him and disrespect Him. They don't even think about the fact that He is the Creator of the universe, He is holy. Think about the fact that they couldn't even stand in His presence because they are not worthy. Even Moses who God gave the Ten Commandments, hit the ground with His face in the dirt because He couldn't even look at God's splendor, holiness and His majesty. Yet people talk about God as if they would tell Him a thing or two. Give me a break!

Something to think about.

That's only because you've accepted the premised and identity of God as describe in the OT which was written by primitive superstitious men.

So there's is very little to think about in that regard because i live in the modern world where our society (which still has far to go) has progressed far beyond that, far beyond surrendering my common sense and morality in favor of awe and wonderment or excluding the leader or creator from accountability for their actions.

 


OzmO

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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #129 on: November 27, 2007, 12:51:28 PM »
Something to remember....

I have the similar respect and awe for God as most Christians do.   I just don't let that cloud my common sense when it comes to someone else telling me who God is, be it in a book (bible) or personal experience.

The Freakshow

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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #130 on: November 27, 2007, 04:31:55 PM »
No he doesn't if he at the same time tells you to love thy neighbor, do on to others, thou shalt not kill, etc....    No entity or being is above the morality they impose on others with out becoming a hypocrite.

Use some logic:

1.  This God described in the OT is a hypocrite
2.  God is not a hypocrite
3.  therefore the Bible is not the infallible WOG





That's only because you've accepted the premised and identity of God as describe in the OT which was written by primitive superstitious men.

So there's is very little to think about in that regard because i live in the modern world where our society (which still has far to go) has progressed far beyond that, far beyond surrendering my common sense and morality in favor of awe and wonderment or excluding the leader or creator from accountability for their actions.

 



So in other words, God has no authority other than the authority that "you" allow Him to have. A God that is not omnipotent.

So essentially, you are god and you say how it's going to be done.

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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #131 on: November 27, 2007, 04:33:12 PM »
Something to remember....

I have the similar respect and awe for God as most Christians do.   I just don't let that cloud my common sense when it comes to someone else telling me who God is, be it in a book (bible) or personal experience.

However, your god would act according to your design. A genie in a bottle kind of god.

OzmO

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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #132 on: November 27, 2007, 05:10:54 PM »
So in other words, God has no authority other than the authority that "you" allow Him to have. A God that is not omnipotent.

So essentially, you are god and you say how it's going to be done.
You are missing the point again and thinking in simple terms.

Of course God has authority and ultimate power as he created everything, but he also gave us free will.  And my point is that God will act Godly, above petty jealousy and rage that's indicative of imperfect man.  If not, then God is not god but instead a man.  Go back to the logic i showed you 1-2-3

However, your god would act according to your design. A genie in a bottle kind of god.


Not my design, Something close if not exact to the example Jesus set.  Jesus, ordering the death of children?  Think about it and save the me the man made explanation trying create idea that god changed his approach.   BTW  it's not my God, it's God, yours and mine regardless of how inaccurate you and i are at describing him. 

But one thing is for sure..... God is not a man,  rage murder and jealousy are things men do.



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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #133 on: November 27, 2007, 06:48:00 PM »
You are missing the point again and thinking in simple terms.

Of course God has authority and ultimate power as he created everything, but he also gave us free will.  And my point is that God will act Godly, above petty jealousy and rage that's indicative of imperfect man.  If not, then God is not god but instead a man.  Go back to the logic i showed you 1-2-3

The logic YOU showed me.



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Not my design, Something close if not exact to the example Jesus set. 

Which God would that be??? Where did you hear about him??? It's sounds like something you created to match your beliefs.

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Jesus, ordering the death of children?  Think about it and save the me the man made explanation trying create idea that god changed his approach.   BTW  it's not my God, it's God, yours and mine regardless of how inaccurate you and i are at describing him. 

Well our God is not the same. My God is the God of the Bible. He is the only one true God. The God of Jesus, whom you deny.

I am not inaccurate in describing Him. How do I know? Because it's not how I describe Him, but how He describes Himself. Anything different is not God. It may be "a" god but it's not God.

God is very clear in the Bible, you are either for Him or against Him. If you deny Him (the God of the Bible), He will deny you.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:21-23

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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #134 on: November 27, 2007, 06:59:13 PM »
The logic YOU showed me.



Which God would that be??? Where did you hear about him??? It's sounds like something you created to match your beliefs.

Well our God is not the same. My God is the God of the Bible. He is the only one true God. The God of Jesus, whom you deny.

I am not inaccurate in describing Him. How do I know? Because it's not how I describe Him, but how He describes Himself. Anything different is not God. It may be "a" god but it's not God.

God is very clear in the Bible, you are either for Him or against Him. If you deny Him (the God of the Bible), He will deny you.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:21-23

Which makes your daddy in the sky figure all the more transparent...he sounds like an angry teenager....
I hate the State.

The Freakshow

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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #135 on: November 27, 2007, 07:01:18 PM »
OzmO - Please don't misunderstand me. I am not trying to disrespect you or offend you in any way.

I'm just trying to make clear that the God of the Bible is different than any other God. They are not and cannot be the same. The God of the Bible is the God of Jesus. Any God that denies that Jesus is part of the Godhead can't be the God of the Bible.

I'm sure you are a great guy and very intellegent. So please don't take anything I say as an attack on you personally, because that is not my intention.

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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #136 on: November 27, 2007, 07:03:48 PM »
Which makes your daddy in the sky figure all the more transparent...he sounds like an angry teenager....

You're problem is not with me, it's with God.

Deicide

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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #137 on: November 27, 2007, 07:05:16 PM »
You're problem is not with me, it's with God.

Hard to have a problem with the non-existent... ;D
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The Freakshow

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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #138 on: November 27, 2007, 07:16:02 PM »
Hard to have a problem with the non-existent... ;D

Then I guess you don't have a problem at all, huh ;)

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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #139 on: November 27, 2007, 07:40:34 PM »
Then I guess you don't have a problem at all, huh ;)

Nope.

BTW, I have to say, you guys are the nicest bunch of bible thumping fundies I have ever encountered (You, Loco and Stella)...and I mean that in all seriousness... ;)
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MCWAY

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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #140 on: November 28, 2007, 02:30:34 AM »
 
No, not at all, the Children needlessly suffered and were given an undue punishment.  they were murdered and slaughtered and it wasn't neccessary (which it never is).

To dismiss it as an consequence is barbaric and shows a lack of morality.

Hence:  not godly.

When you continue to pursue bad behavior, knowing that the ramifications will affect not just you, but those under your charge, then it does become an act of consequence. As I said some time ago, if I do something immoral that costs me my job and can't pay the rent/mortgage, my entire family will be out on the street, not just me. And, NO, my landlord/the bank foreclosers are not obligated to find a place for my children to stay, because of my actions.

 

I wasn't suggesting it was falling apart, My point was that in order for him to have common sense would mean his and your foundation of beliefs would dissolve or fall apart.  So in way you are locked into this barbaric immoral way of thinking that says there is justification for killing innocent children if their parents have sinned.

How would that fly today McVay?  Would that kind of behavior be considered Christian?  I think not.  It would be worse than 9/11.

First of all, the name's MCWAY (not MCVAY, an obvious play on words regarding a certain dead criminal). Second of all, this "barbaric" behavior has happened before. Again, I refer you to Hiroshima and the A-bomb. Did that bomb just kill adult Japanese? NOPE!!! Did our country exhaust every other means to get the Japanese to stop their assaults? Yes!!!


I think the oldest known writings are Sumerian text on clay tablets.  But what ever the case, there are many ancient religious writings so that's a moot point really.   Further more how do you qualify validated?   Writings that identify an ancient city in turn prove that someone lived in the belly of a whale for 3 days?   ::)


My Point is, there was a better more MORAL way to deal with the problem, but you believe it was God who dealt with it this way when he has all this power.


Says who? God does have all this power. He chose to deal with Amalekites, as described in 1 Samuel. You don't like His decision? TOO BAD!!! That takes nothing away from His power and omnipotence.


Well you both are living in the stone age,  Society has far progressed from that and realizes that killing innocent children regardless of the sins of the parents is wrong and immoral.   (I guess the God of the OT was still immature  ::))

Again, I refer you to the A-bomb and Hiroshima. That was only about 60-70 years ago; so it's safe to say that this was past the "stone age".


It has everything to do with it.  That's where they get their justification.  If the book was written properly people wouldn't get instructions on how to trade and train slaves, how to be angry and jealous, or how to murder children instead of finding a solution.

Properly based on whose standards, yours? The solution was found: After 300+ years of giving the Amalekites opportunity after opportunity after opportunity to repent and make amends, the time had come for judgment. The simple fact is that over the centuries, the Amalekites got worse, not better. Therefore, it was time to deal with them, once and for all. As Samuel put it, Amalek's sword made women childless; now mothers of Amalek would be childless.

 

Yes, it's the Bible that has helped to sanctify and legitimatize much of the suffering we've seen in the world in our history,  Murder, slavery, repression, displacement etc....

The Bible has done nothing of the sort. The people who did this did so and would have done so, regardless of what the Bible has to say.

 

What if the Bible only contained the commandments and the NT?   Slavery would have been abolished much sooner, displacing families and nations wouldn't have been thought to be proper, murdering on the scale of the crusades wouldn't been done with religious justification and in turn probably not happen on the scale it did.

Slavery (specifically chattel slavery) was institutionalized for one reason: MONEY!!! Same goes for the Crusaders, the leaders of whom could have cared less whether their enemies repented/converted or not.

 

Yes, this book has help to as much bad as it has done to do much good.

Again we are talking about the kids, a hard thing for even thumpers to swallow that's why you keep thinking i"m talking about the parents.

Wrong! Nobody here is thinking you're talking about the parents. What's hard for you to swallow is the fact that, in life, as tragic as it is, chidren do pay for the sins of their parents. That's why the parents/leaders/kings need to do what's right. Their sins don't just affect them; they affect other people. Just as their righteous behavior can bless their people, their wicked behavior can curse their people.

 

God is supposed to be in control of his emotions at the very least.  If not he's certainly not a God (which is my point about the OT not being the WOG)  Not like some raged mad-man. 
Thump  ::)

That's just stupid McVay.

 

Who says that he isn't? Oh, I forgot. He isn't doing things the way you think He should  ::) . Once again, my name (on this forum) is MCWAY!!

 
 

God wisdom to be Godly would not include hypocrisy.

Its a principle.   

Talk the talk and walk the walk.

And, He does. Righteous behavior blesses man and those under his charge; wicked behavior curses man and those under his charge.

 
huh?

"huh?" about what? "Third and fourth generations" means descendants. And, that's what I've said from the start. Other people can suffer for YOUR sins. What part of that don't you get?

 

Again, you fail to see I'm talking about the children.

McVay talk all that logic or what ever you call it and apply it to a scenario today.   How outrageous would that be?

But you can't get that can you?   to do so, would mean to question the Bible, the word.....

You know it's a good thing people like you aren't in power.  Because many innocent people might die from this righteousness crap.

Again it's about innocent children, something you can't seem to get,  children you would have killed.

What you don't get is that, on certain scales, when you mess up or do something wrong (read this very slowly, so it sinks into your head)......YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO PAYS THE PRICE!!! That is true in this life, regardless of how much wailing or blubbering about it you do.

My sins don't just affect me; your sins don't just affect you (I can guarantee that you've done something wrong in your life and it has adversely affected someone else; I know that's happened in my life). And, the sins of the Amalekite men didn't just affect them. It brought judgment on their entire population. Plus, I forgot to mention the Israelites. How many of them later died at the sword of the resurging Amalekites, because Saul failed to follow instructions?

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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #141 on: November 28, 2007, 06:48:59 AM »
BTW, I have to say, you guys are the nicest bunch of bible thumping fundies I have ever encountered (You, Loco and Stella)...and I mean that in all seriousness... ;)

Thanks, Trapezkerl!    :-\

OzmO

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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #142 on: November 28, 2007, 07:07:47 AM »
OzmO - Please don't misunderstand me. I am not trying to disrespect you or offend you in any way.

I'm just trying to make clear that the God of the Bible is different than any other God. They are not and cannot be the same. The God of the Bible is the God of Jesus. Any God that denies that Jesus is part of the Godhead can't be the God of the Bible.

I'm sure you are a great guy and very intellegent. So please don't take anything I say as an attack on you personally, because that is not my intention.

Thank you freakshow, i understand where you are coming from now.

Back to God.

"...............god of the bible is different than any other god."

God is God regardless of what the Bible says or you and i say.  It's not about my god or your God or the bible's God.  My only point is that the God described  in the OT is not God.  The description fits a being with the emotions of man.  Therefore the Bible is not the 100% word of God.

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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #143 on: November 28, 2007, 08:49:31 AM »

First of all, the name's MCWAY (not MCVAY, an obvious play on words regarding a certain dead criminal). Second of all, this "barbaric" behavior has happened before. Again, I refer you to Hiroshima and the A-bomb. Did that bomb just kill adult Japanese? NOPE!!! Did our country exhaust every other means to get the Japanese to stop their assaults? Yes!!!

First of all, the name's MCWAY (not MCVAY, an obvious play on words regarding a certain dead criminal).
 
Once again, my name (on this forum) is MCWAY!!
 

The vast majority of the time when I'm writing these responses I'm multi-tasking.  So i don't always pay attention when i write your name.

Writing your name the wrong way was not intentional and certainly not meant to imply anything.  If it wasn't for spell check on Firefox there would be tons more errors.   I'll try and make sure i get it right from now on.  (If i was trying to make a play on words i can assure I'd cop to it, but i wasn't)

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When you continue to pursue bad behavior, knowing that the ramifications will affect not just you, but those under your charge, then it does become an act of consequence. As I said some time ago, if I do something immoral that costs me my job and can't pay the rent/mortgage, my entire family will be out on the street, not just me. And, NO, my landlord/the bank foreclosers are not obligated to find a place for my children to stay, because of my actions.

I don't disagree with the principle that what you do as a parent affects your children.

But we are not talking about not eating well, losing your house, not being able to buy certain things you need etc...

We are talking about killing innocent children as a result of what a parent did.   There's a big difference with that.   That's considered barbaric, unjust, immoral etc....    There isn't situation you can show me that would justify killing children no matter how much you try and connect that above principle it doesn't change the immorality or wrongness of the act.   Hence:  Not God.

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Second of all, this "barbaric" behavior has happened before. Again, I refer you to Hiroshima and the A-bomb. Did that bomb just kill adult Japanese? NOPE!!! Did our country exhaust every other means to get the Japanese to stop their assaults? Yes!!!

Did God exhaust every means?   Being that God is all powerful here's a list off the top of my head that god could have done with the Amalikites.

1.  Made all of them teleport to the most remote place in the amazon.
2.  Made their weapons disappear every time they used them for violence
3.  Made an invisible wall preventing the Amilkites from venturing into Jewish territory.
4.  Once the adults were killed erased the memory from the survivors and had them integrated into the Jewish culture.

I know i could think of many more.  Before you get on your high horse and accuse of knowing better than God, i'm not doing that.  I'm simply showing you that your comparison with Hiroshima is bunk because God (all powerful) has plenty of options.

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Says who? God does have all this power. He chose to deal with Amalekites, as described in 1 Samuel. You don't like His decision? TOO BAD!!! That takes nothing away from His power and omnipotence.

My point is because he has all that power, morality and wisdom he would choose not to be a hypocrite.  Hence:  Killing the amalikites children was an act of man not God, therefore:  The bible is not the 100% WOG.

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Again, I refer you to the A-bomb and Hiroshima. That was only about 60-70 years ago; so it's safe to say that this was past the "stone age".

What we did there was debatably needed.  If we had the power of God would we have done that?   Go back to my list of things God cold have done with the Amalikites and i'm sure you'll come up with some ideas on how we could have ended the war without dropping those bombs.

 
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The Bible has done nothing of the sort. The people who did this did so and would have done so, regardless of what the Bible has to say.

Not likely, as much or as long, because the most evil and dangerous thing is a person who enacts violence while believing they are justified.   The Bible helped give them this justification. 

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Slavery (specifically chattel slavery) was institutionalized for one reason: MONEY!!! Same goes for the Crusaders, the leaders of whom could have cared less whether their enemies repented/converted or not.

And God tells us how to trade and train them?   ::)

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And, He does. Righteous behavior blesses man and those under his charge; wicked behavior curses man and those under his charge.

Killing innocent children is immoral.  That's what the God of the OT did.   

 
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"huh?" about what? "Third and fourth generations" means descendants. And, that's what I've said from the start. Other people can suffer for YOUR sins. What part of that don't you get?

I get it, but what you don;t get is that it doesn't apply when it comes to killing innocent children in the terms of morality.

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What you don't get is that, on certain scales, when you mess up or do something wrong (read this very slowly, so it sinks into your head)......YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO PAYS THE PRICE!!! That is true in this life, regardless of how much wailing or blubbering about it you do.

Same crap again, which i agree with, but not in the choice that was made to kill innocent children.

What cracks me up about you is that you think killing innocent children was unavoidable  because  of the sins of the parents.   That's primitive.

The Freakshow

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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #144 on: November 28, 2007, 10:29:38 AM »
Nope.

BTW, I have to say, you guys are the nicest bunch of bible thumping fundies I have ever encountered (You, Loco and Stella)...and I mean that in all seriousness... ;)

Thanks Trapezkerl :)

ToxicAvenger

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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #145 on: November 28, 2007, 11:29:03 AM »
if god ordered me to kill a child i'd start on lithium right away...
carpe` vaginum!

Necrosis

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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #146 on: November 30, 2007, 08:00:36 AM »
christians should try this logic game, and read the responses they get.

http://www.philosophersnet.com/games/whatisgod.htm

The Freakshow

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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #147 on: November 30, 2007, 03:15:30 PM »
christians should try this logic game, and read the responses they get.

http://www.philosophersnet.com/games/whatisgod.htm

Yeah, that's real scientific. The only way to get what they call a "plausible" explanation, or a perfect score on the game. You need to deny that God exists.

Philosophers probably sit around and Philosophize about what it would be like to Philosophize if there were no Philosophy. Think about that ;)

Necrosis

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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #148 on: December 04, 2007, 01:28:07 PM »
Yeah, that's real scientific. The only way to get what they call a "plausible" explanation, or a perfect score on the game. You need to deny that God exists.

Philosophers probably sit around and Philosophize about what it would be like to Philosophize if there were no Philosophy. Think about that ;)

basically, no real good philosophical work has been done in the last century by theists. most of the good philosophy is from atheists.

according to philosophy, god is not plausible, thats correct. why do you think atheism is increasing.

OzmO

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Re: If God ordered you to kill a child..........
« Reply #149 on: December 04, 2007, 02:13:51 PM »
basically, no real good philosophical work has been done in the last century by theists. most of the good philosophy is from atheists.

according to philosophy, god is not plausible, thats correct. why do you think atheism is increasing.

That's interesting and sad at the same time.

I think people are just getting smarter and are seeing the Bible for it is: a book of stories.   Without things like the internet, which speeds the exchange of information, the Bible and all it's contradictions was daunting for a person to read critically.  Now you don't have to research every word  because other people's work have been published and are accessible to the verse online. 

What's unfortunate is that many people identify the existence of God with the Bible.  To them if the Bible is untrue then God must be untrue also.