Creationism gains foothold in schools

[loco]

December 31, 2006

"THE government has cleared the way for a form of creationism to be taught in Britain’s schools as part of the religious syllabus.

Lord Adonis, an education minister, is to issue guidelines within two months for the teaching of “intelligent design” (ID), a theory being promoted by the religious right in America."

"The lobby group says its ultimate aim is to pressure schools to teach ID in science lessons as a challenge to Darwinism. It says it has the support of about 70 heads of science across Britain, who want ID to be introduced in the national curriculum as part of science."

"It has emerged that 12 prominent academics wrote to Tony Blair and Alan Johnson, the education secretary, last month arguing that ID should be taught as part of science on the national curriculum.

They included Antony Flew*, formerly professor of philosophy at Reading University; Terry Hamblin, professor of immunohaemotology at Southampton University; and John Walton, professor of chemistry at St Andrews University. In October Truth in Science was criticised for sending education packs to hundreds of schools across Britain explaining ID."

MORE: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/newspapers/sunday_times/britain/article1265412.ece?token=null&offset=0



*"Professor Antony Garrard Newton Flew (born February 11, 1923) is a British philosopher. Known for several decades as a prominent atheist, Flew first publicly expressed deist views in 2004." - My Pilgrimage from Atheism to Theism An Exclusive Interview with Former British Atheist Professor Antony Flew Gary R. Habermas, Biola, December 9, 2004. pp 6

[ATHEIST]

i know this is a hot topic in the US. if the DOE decides to spend part of the science classes on Christianity the US students are in trouble, and they will fall farther behind academically than foreign students. Advances are made in science not Christianity.

[loco]

i know this is a hot topic in the US. if the DOE decides to spend part of the science classes on Christianity the US students are in trouble, and they will fall farther behind academically than foreign students. Advances are made in science not Christianity.

Not arguing your point, simply to clarify that Intelligent Design is not Christianity.  Many proponents of Intelligent Design are theists from several other religions, and others are deists like Antony Flew for example.

[Decker]

That's interesting.  I would take a class in that.

[ATHEIST]

Not arguing your point, simply to clarify that Intelligent Design is not Christianity.  Many proponents of Intelligent Design are theists from several other religions, and others are deists like Antony Flew for example.

  I understand what youre saying and i got that when i read the article. But there is no possible way schools will teach anything but Christianity when refering to I.D
If they do sway towards any other religion, there will be an uproar dont you think?

[Tre]

It's a step forward for any religion to admit that they've been lying to people for centuries.

[Deicide]

"Geology shows that fossils are of different ages. Paleontology shows a fossil sequence, the list of species represented changes through time. Taxonomy shows biological relationships among species. Evolution is the explanation that threads it all together. Creationism is the practice of squeezing one's eyes shut and wailing 'does not!'"

[Necrosis]

creationism is retarded, it has a conclusion already and looks for info to prove it , thats not science.

[loco]

  I understand what youre saying and i got that when i read the article. But there is no possible way schools will teach anything but Christianity when refering to I.D
If they do sway towards any other religion, there will be an uproar dont you think?

No, I don't thinks so!  I have read books on I.D. and I have watched DVDs on I.D.   There is absolutely no mention of religion, Christianity, Jesus, the Bible or even God.  It's all about nature, science, and the theory of design and a designer.

[Decker]

... theory of design and a designer.

That might be true but it is not science.  Even if rocks fell from the sky with "Made By God" stamped on them that would not indicate intelligent design or a designer.

[loco]

That might be true but it is not science.  Even if rocks fell from the sky with "Made By God" stamped on them that would not indicate intelligent design or a designer.

Rocks with "Made By God" stamped on them would certainly not indicate nature without the intervention of an intelligent being, in this case, a human for example.

[gcb]

I don't think it is a big deal to teach it as long as the teaching is not subjective - ie. you can show both the pros and cons and explain why it is not science. It shouldn't take up serious time out of the science curriculum.

[Deicide]

I don't think it is a big deal to teach it as long as the teaching is not subjective - ie. you can show both the pros and cons and explain why it is not science. It shouldn't take up serious time out of the science curriculum.

The problem is that IDers insist it IS science....

[gcb]

The problem is that IDers insist it IS science....

I'm thinking something like a one liner ... "ID is creationisms attempt to debunk science by saying everything we can't explain in evolution is God's doing." 

[Deicide]

I'm thinking something like a one liner ... "ID is creationisms attempt to debunk science by saying everything we can't explain in evolution is God's doing." 

Yes, that is called god of the gaps...

[loco]

columbusdude82 and Trapezkerl, what happened?  This guy was one of you, but now he is a "bible thumping fundy nutcase". 

A.J. Monty White is a British Young Earth Creationist and is the Chief Executive of the UK branch of Answers in Genesis. He is a graduate of the University of Wales, obtaining his BSc in Chemistry in 1967, and his Ph.D. for his research in the field of Gas Kinetics in 1970.

In 1964, White converted to Christianity from atheism despite his parent's beliefs, while he was studying as an undergraduate. Supposedly, he said that he accepted theistic evolution, but then began to believe that "evolution is not compatible with Christianity."
White believes the earth is 6,000 years old and that "people believe in evolution because they choose to do so." Furthermore he says, "there is not a shred of real evidence for the evolution of life on earth." . This "Young Earth" belief also contradicts other widely held scientific beliefs such as those which are the foundation of Astronomy, Cosmology, Anthropology, Archaeology, Ecology, Hydrology, Geology, Geophysics and Linguistics.

Dr White even says in his autobiographical paper "My spiritual pilgrimage from theistic evolution to Creation" the following:

"Each discipline should be dismantled, and, starting at the foundation, purged of unbiblical notions and rebuilt in accordance with biblical values and givens.. . If ultimately we will be fools in the eyes of the world anyway, why not at least be consistent fools, and uphold God's Word in its undiminished entirety?"

The cornerstone of his argument against Evolution stems from the fact that it has never be proven to be true, and any evidence that there is for Evolution is tarnished with uncertainties and faults (for example, the Peppered Moth ). The only evidence that has been 'proven' is the Bible and, as the word of God, should be believed and taken literally word for word "From the very first verse."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4398345.stm

http://www.banneroftruth.org/pages/articles/article_print.php?118

http://www.icr.org/article/496/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_White

[loco]

BUMP   

[columbusdude82]

One of "us"?! You mean, he didn't believe in the Christian myth? Or in Santa? What you don't get is that there is no "us" as atheists, just as there is no us as "a-harry-potter-ists"...

So some Welsh guy works for the nutcase organization AiG and doesn't know much science. Where's the big surprise?

And how does supposedly having a PhD in "gas kinetics" qualify anyone to comment on an entirely different field, namely biology?

[Necrosis]

"This "Young Earth" belief also contradicts other widely held scientific beliefs such as those which are the foundation of Astronomy, Cosmology, Anthropology, Archaeology, Ecology, Hydrology, Geology, Geophysics and Linguistics."

he is a moron obviously, what do you think everyone else is wrong, and this moron is right. all the brilliant men and women of the world are wrong, people like einstein, newton, chomsky etc.. are wrong, but this guy with a phd in gas kinetics? is right. thats a bullshit degree, anyway.

if anyone beleieves the earth is 6000 years old they need some serious help, everything we know contradicts this.

[loco]

One of "us"?! You mean, he didn't believe in the Christian myth? Or in Santa? What you don't get is that there is no "us" as atheists, just as there is no us as "a-harry-potter-ists"...

So some Welsh guy works for the nutcase organization AiG and doesn't know much science. Where's the big surprise?

And how does supposedly having a PhD in "gas kinetics" qualify anyone to comment on an entirely different field, namely biology?

But, but, but he wasn't infected with the Christianity virus at childhood.    

He was born in England, a now mostly secular country, and was raised by atheist parents, and went to college where normally professors knock religion out of you.  But this guy went from atheist to theist in college.

Isn't that how Dawkins and you explain belief in God, indoctrination or virus infection at childhood?

BTW, columbusdude82, stay away from those hot, "Campus Crusade for Christ" girls.  You might catch something, like the Christianity virus or something like that.   

[columbusdude82]

Dude, lots of the "CCFC" girls are really just skanky whores who go there to put up the act of looking decent and/or to meet guys. I see them at the bars all slutted up with their boobs and ass hangin out.

If I catch any virus from them, it most likely won't be Christianity...

[loco]

Dude, lots of the "CCFC" girls are really just skanky whores who go there to put up the act of looking decent and/or to meet guys. I see them at the bars all slutted up with their boobs and ass hangin out.

If I catch any virus from them, it most likely won't be Christianity...

Maybe they are atteding "CCFC" meetings because they want to change.

[columbusdude82]

Maybe they are atteding "CCFC" meetings because they want to change.

Not really. They still stay the same and make no effort to change. To them, it's just another social outlet to meet guys...

[loco]

Not really. They still stay the same and make no effort to change. To them, it's just another social outlet to meet guys...

Just out of curiousity, why would a "skanky whore" wanna meet a "Bible thumping nutcase" in a Campus Crusade for Christ meeting?

[columbusdude82]

You think all the guys there are sincere in their beliefs? Oh dear... how long has it been since you went to college?