Time to admit the 'gun nuts' are right

[Hugo Chavez]

BOOYA!!!  Great article!

Is it possible that we are not talking about the right of the government to form a militia when there is no standing army, but the right of the individual to defend himself, or herself, against both tyranny and lawlessness? Maybe we are talking about the right of self-defense -- the right of the individual to take up arms against a government that wants to oppress, be it foreign or domestic. And the right of the individual to defend himself against criminals, brutes, and barbarians when local police seem unable to stop them.

cont... http://www.journalinquirer.com/site/index.cfm?newsid=18660461&BRD=985&PAG=461&dept_id=569380&rfi=8

[240 is Back]

Republican candidate MIke Huckabee recently said that people need guns not only to protect from bad guys, but also from governmental tyranny.

THis pissed off many people, including leftish mouthpiece CHris Mathews, who went on MSNBC's "morning joe" on monday to ream Huck for ever thinking such a thing.

Anyone have the quote from huck?

[Deicide]

Republican candidate MIke Huckabee recently said that people need guns not only to protect from bad guys, but also from governmental tyranny.

THis pissed off many people, including leftish mouthpiece CHris Mathews, who went on MSNBC's "morning joe" on monday to ream Huck for ever thinking such a thing.

Anyone have the quote from huck?

And you don't care how many civilians we kill or countries we invade....

[240 is Back]

And you don't care how many civilians we kill or countries we invade....

I know it' sinevitable.

Since WWII ended, we have done it on 6 continents.  It's above presidential level.  It's just national policy.  The popularity contest of prez is over every 4 years.  There are forces at work that interfere with other nations, installing leaders (or twisting arms of current leaders) to get them to give the US favorable deals.

WHy do you think the US has been able to remain the only superpower despite having a weak dollar, and minimal competitive advantages in any arena?

My point yesterday is that it's going to happen, we'll never hear about 99% of it, and why worry about it when we have zero ability to change it.  Americans all enjoy the benefits.

[Decker]

I think the idea that an armed citizenry can overthrow the well-oiled military machine of our government made sense 200 years ago.  Today it's just a vestigial fantasy.

[Hugo Chavez]

Republican candidate MIke Huckabee recently said that people need guns not only to protect from bad guys, but also from governmental tyranny.

THis pissed off many people, including leftish mouthpiece CHris Mathews, who went on MSNBC's "morning joe" on monday to ream Huck for ever thinking such a thing.

Anyone have the quote from huck?

Chris comes from a conservitive background supporting Goldwater when he was younger and only got hooked up with dems for antiwar and social issues. He voted for Bush in 2000.  All in all his history makes him middle of the road, not leftish.  I wouldn't vote for Mike on this issue, as you said earlier, it's a dead issue, guns are safe for now.

[Hugo Chavez]

I think the idea that an armed citizenry can overthrow the well-oiled military machine of our government made sense 200 years ago.  Today it's just a vestigial fantasy.

It's not so much that the citizens can up and overthrow the gov, it's that the gov would have a hard time supressing the people with force.  Knowing there is a well armed citizenry has its values.

[Hugo Chavez]

I know it' sinevitable.

Since WWII ended, we have done it on 6 continents.  It's above presidential level.  It's just national policy.  The popularity contest of prez is over every 4 years.  There are forces at work that interfere with other nations, installing leaders (or twisting arms of current leaders) to get them to give the US favorable deals.

WHy do you think the US has been able to remain the only superpower despite having a weak dollar, and minimal competitive advantages in any arena?

My point yesterday is that it's going to happen, we'll never hear about 99% of it, and why worry about it when we have zero ability to change it.  Americans all enjoy the benefits.

come back and tell me how we're enjoying the benefits when we're a state under world government.

Contrary to opinion, you do not need to conquer to prosper.

[Deicide]

come back and tell me how we're enjoying the benefits when we're a state under world government.

Contrary to opinion, you do not need to conquer to prosper.

Just ask Norway...

[Hugo Chavez]

Just ask Norway...

exactly, no offense 240, I just can't follow you down that road.

[Hedgehog]

come back and tell me how we're enjoying the benefits when we're a state under world government.

Contrary to opinion, you do not need to conquer to prosper.

USA has the highest murder rate in any Civilized Nation.

It is also the nation with the most liberal gun laws.

I can definitely understand that the gun lobby is strong in the USA, so I understand that their propaganda would get through to many.

But it's mind boggling that cold hard facts about murder ratios et al are constantly being dismissed by even intellectuals in USA.

There is the argument that the right to carry a gun is needed in order to protect the individual from the government.

But this is the 21st century. Not the 18th.

The government doesn't attack citizens in other civilized nations, where the gun laws are much more conservative.

[headhuntersix]

I'm going to a gun show this weekend..guns for everybody. Hell if a student at Va Tech hada gun, that dirtbag could have been put down easy. Also "trap" we don't go around killing civilians like its some kind of fox hunt. I think if u want to look at body count look at hamas/AG/Hez and the rest for killing innocents before u blame the US military.

[Hugo Chavez]

I'm going to a gun show this weekend..guns for everybody. Hell if a student at Va Tech hada gun, that dirtbag could have been put down easy. Also "trap" we don't go around killing civilians like its some kind of fox hunt. I think if u want to look at body count look at hamas/AG/Hez and the rest for killing innocents before u blame the US military.

hh, do you have naziesk tendencies

[headhuntersix]

We live in a different society then Europe. Guns have always been prevelant here. If we suddenly banned guns, and not that I'm giving any of mine up, then only criminals would have em. The horse left the barn in 1776 and its not coming back ever. I conceal carry, I've NEVER EVER even put my hand to my pistol. In Iraq and especially Afghanistan I did it almost on a daily basis. It just depends on where u are and why u carry a gun. Look at Shawn taylor..if he'd had a shotgun, like i do he could have smeared that buglar all over his bedroom. Instead he had a machete..completely ridiculous. Better to have a gun etc....

[headhuntersix]

I don't think the Nazi's liked an armed citizenery, atleast until the commies were ruling through the fatherland. Nope not a nazi, just defending my organization...plus guns for everybody

[240 is Back]

The government doesn't attack citizens in other civilized nations, where the gun laws are much more conservative.

Germany was civilized in 1939.

Hitler enacted gun laws and took away all the guns from his citizens.

Then he acted in a very uncivilized manner with these now unarmed folks.

[Hedgehog]

I'm going to a gun show this weekend..guns for everybody. Hell if a student at Va Tech hada gun, that dirtbag could have been put down easy. Also "trap" we don't go around killing civilians like its some kind of fox hunt. I think if u want to look at body count look at hamas/AG/Hez and the rest for killing innocents before u blame the US military.

If USA had as conservative gun laws like Japan or UK, chances are that the shooting would've never occured in the first place.

Question: How many killing sprees are reported from USA versus the rest of the world?

Why wouldn't the supply of guns be an issue?

[Hedgehog]

Germany was civilized in 1939.

Hitler enacted gun laws and took away all the guns from his citizens.

Then he acted in a very uncivilized manner with these now unarmed folks.

You claim to have been a History teacher.

That seems strange. If that is the case, you should know that Hitler's rise to power Germany didn't come through violence, ie wasn't a case of Hitler forcing himself upon a defenceless German population.

It came through elections, through repeated bureaucracy, and through his infamous rhetorical skill.

The background was a Germany who was given a very poor deal after WW I, and was suffering tremendously economically and socially.

You claim to have been a History teacher.

[Deicide]

If USA had as conservative gun laws like Japan or UK, chances are that the shooting would've never occured in the first place.

Question: How many killing sprees are reported from USA versus the rest of the world?

Why wouldn't the supply of guns be an issue?

All in all the USA is a fucked up place to live, don't ever want to live there again...

Es lebe Sweden!

[240 is Back]

If USA had as conservative gun laws like Japan or UK, chances are that the shooting would've never occured in the first place.

Question: How many killing sprees are reported from USA versus the rest of the world?

Why wouldn't the supply of guns be an issue?

Hedge,

in a world where 1) we know the govt wasn't going to do evil things, and 2) you could remove all the guns with a flawless transition, that would be great.

BUT

For the first 50 years of a gun ban, the bad guys iwll have them, and the good guys will not.
I won't be able to protct my family from some felon who carries illegally now already.

Sure, in 50 years, the guns will rust, they'll slowly be confiscated, bullets will become more scarce, and bad guys will eventuall die of old age or get caught.

BUT

Those 50 years will be a really shitty time to live in the place, you know?  

Today I know that 3 teenagers or one grownup bad guy decides to take my car/wallet/life, I have a fighting chance to stop him. In a country without guns, what the hell would I do?  Run?  Leave my wife and kid there?  Or take an asswhooping or perhaps being killed by the assailant(s)?

How would YOU solve those 50 years of citizens being unsafe?

[headhuntersix]

Its to late hedge..we have guns..i might go by another gun this weekend, its way to late. If we didn't have access to guns from the get go..u'd be right. Now alot of bad folks have illiegal guns. Ever go into a gun shop...who runs em...white redneck guys who are suspicious of everybody not white. Criminals don't buy guns from gun shops. They get them from the street or now off the net.

[240 is Back]

You claim to have been a History teacher.

That seems strange. If that is the case, you should know that Hitler's rise to power Germany didn't come through violence, ie wasn't a case of Hitler forcing himself upon a defenceless German population.

It came through elections, through repeated bureaucracy, and through his infamous rhetorical skill.

The background was a Germany who was given a very poor deal after WW I, and was suffering tremendously economically and socially.

You claim to have been a History teacher.

I know hitler was elected.

I also know he then pulled a false flag attack, and used to it disarm his people.  He then used hatred for a small group to allow him to rally the larger group to support aggressive foreign policy.  

I know that his men would have struggled if every Jew in that country went out shooting, instead of quietly getting on the trains to the camps.

And Americans here know it too.  

[Deicide]

Its to late hedge..we have guns..i might go by another gun this weekend, its way to late. If we didn't have access to guns from the get go..u'd be right. Now alot of bad folks have illiegal guns. Ever go into a gun shop...who runs em...white redneck guys who are suspicious of everybody not white. Criminals don't buy guns from gun shops. They get them from the street or now off the net.

Hedge doesn't worry about this stuff; he's chilling in a club in Stockholm, macking it with the ladies.....

[Hedgehog]

I know hitler was elected.

Then you "know" wrong.
Hitler was never elected.

His party, was able to get into power with a couple of other parties, then Hitler was named chancellor by the president.


You could of course, if you like, find me a source that shows me that Hitler, was in fact, elected.

Then I will admit that I am wrong.

He then used hatred for a small group to allow him to rally the larger group to support aggressive foreign policy. 

Again, you are, of course, wrong.

Hitler's rhetorics to support the aggressive foreign policies wasn't based on critisism on the Jews.

But rather on the fact that the Germans had been caused great injustice during the WW I, and that Germany demanded Lebensraum (google that word).

Jews, gypsies and other minorities were blamed for any domestic poverty, problems, or related problems.

[headhuntersix]

Jew bashing was a easy fall back position in Europe. Hitler seized on it because it didn't take to much work to "prove", however untrue it was. He used the stab in the back argument, he used symbolism, and he used his aryan greatness argument..all borrowed ideas, to climb to and maintain power. Hitler was sent to investigate the Nazi party before he ever became one. I don't think 240 is wrong..he's just not getting very specific. Living space was another Hitler idea all used to gain and maintain power.