Author Topic: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?  (Read 12255 times)

youandme

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Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« on: December 03, 2007, 04:39:27 PM »
Looking for a complete supplement that someone would like to recommend, my concetration is off, and any kind of fat burner ends up making me alert but not able to concentrate?

Thanks

GroinkTropin

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Re: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2007, 07:27:00 PM »
I don't know if he still makes it but my buddy larry used to own a supp company that makes yohimburn, i think he made a nootropic can't remember the nam of it. I'll look for it.

GroinkTropin

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Re: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2007, 07:28:48 PM »
Ah here it is, good to see his company still running strong.

https://www.anafit.com/shop/product_info.php?cartID=c66e5086ab8378793844fca235e4caee&id=66

Princess L

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Re: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2007, 08:29:17 PM »
Looking for a complete supplement that someone would like to recommend, my concetration is off, and any kind of fat burner ends up making me alert but not able to concentrate?

Thanks

The DHA component in fish oil would be good for that.  You can get DHA separately too.
:

GroinkTropin

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Re: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2007, 12:58:29 AM »
The DHA component in fish oil would be good for that.  You can get DHA separately too.

Is it stil effective taken on its own? And why would you recommend it be taken seperately?

DK II

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Re: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2007, 01:19:46 AM »
Zen Meditation, every morning 15 minutes on an empty stomach.

Costs nothing and helps to refresh and learn to concentrate.


GroinkTropin

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Re: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2007, 05:32:59 AM »
Zen Meditation, every morning 15 minutes on an empty stomach.

Costs nothing and helps to refresh and learn to concentrate.



It also does nothing but thanks for the tip.

DK II

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Re: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2007, 05:39:58 AM »
It also does nothing but thanks for the tip.

That's not quite right, but here's not the place to discuss that.

It helps as much as those pills for concentration, if not better and has no side.

wood

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Re: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2007, 06:57:18 AM »
Vinpocetine?
i

Princess L

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Re: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2007, 07:21:32 AM »
Is it stil effective taken on its own? And why would you recommend it be taken seperately?

Good question  ;)  Not totally sure as I haven't researched that specifically, however, it is well known that the EPA component in fish oil is good for overall maintenance and heart health and the DHA component is good for brain function stuff.  They put DHA in baby formula for brain development and DHA has been shown to be helpful with other brain 'issues' such as ADD/ADHD, dementia, Alzheimer's, depression, Schizophrenia, and other cognitive impairments...
:

youandme

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Re: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2007, 07:56:49 AM »
Zen Meditation, every morning 15 minutes on an empty stomach.

Costs nothing and helps to refresh and learn to concentrate.




Thanks I'll look into this.

DHA yeah I've heard it help with myelin sheath development, and oribital sensory nerves, but then I remember reading up on some dosage issues.

Thanks guys

1Fast400

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Re: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2007, 09:02:14 AM »
http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/index.php?showforum=41

Tons of reading on that board.  Nootropics is a very large and diverse topic

youandme

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Re: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2007, 10:40:15 AM »
http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/index.php?showforum=41

Tons of reading on that board.  Nootropics is a very large and diverse topic

Thanks bro, great find.

suckmymuscle

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Re: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2007, 02:14:02 AM »
Looking for a complete supplement that someone would like to recommend, my concetration is off, and any kind of fat burner ends up making me alert but not able to concentrate?

Thanks

  There are basically two types of smart drugs, cholinergic agents and ergoloid mesylate alkaloids. The first kind include drugs such as piracetam, a GABA-derived compound that inhibits dopamine release thus causing it's accumulation in the pre-synaptic cleft. This class of drugs works primarilly by loading neurons with neurotransmitters that get depleted due to stress - and by stimulatory substances sych as caffeine and nicotine. They make you smarter by making your thinking quicker and giving you mental energy.

  Ergoloid mesylates are alkaloids from rye. They work differently from cholinergic agents: while cholinergic agents make you smarter by increasing synaptic levels of dopamine by inhibiting it's release, rye alkoloids work by increasing blood and oxygen flow to the brain as well as stimulating the formation of new dendrites. Cholinergic agents only allow you to use your intelligence to the best of it's capacity by giving you more mental energy, but rye alkaloids might actually increase intelligence itself by boosting dendrital density. It is speculative, but probable. I believe that mesylate ergoloids are more efrfective smart drugs than cholinergic agents due to their dendrite-boosting effect. However, cholinergic agents should be used for a few weeks while abstaining from caffeine to load depleted dopamine levels. After your pre-synaptic cleft is loaded with dopamine, cholinergic compounds become irrelevant, and you should use only ergoloid mesylates to stimulate the formation of new dendrites. A dose of 9 mg a day is effective for most adult men.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

The Master

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Re: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2007, 05:07:31 AM »
  There are basically two types of smart drugs, cholinergic agents and ergoloid mesylate alkaloids. The first kind include drugs such as piracetam, a GABA-derived compound that inhibits dopamine release thus causing it's accumulation in the pre-synaptic cleft. This class of drugs works primarilly by loading neurons with neurotrasmitters that get depleted due to stress - and by stimulatory substances sych as caffeine and nicotine. They make you smarter by making your thinking quicker and giving you mental energy.

  Ergoloid mesylates are alkaloids from rye. They work differently from cholinergic agents: while cholinergic agents make you smarter by increasing synaptic levels of dopamine by inhibiting it's release, rye alkoloids work by increasing blood and oxygen flow to the brain as well as stimulating the formation of new dendrites. Cholinergic agents only allow you to use your intelligence to the best of it's capacity by giving you more mental energy, but rye alkaloids might actually increase intelligence itself by boosting dendrital density. It is speculative, but probable. I believe that mesylate ergoloids are more efrfective smart drugs than cholinergic agents due to their dendrite-boosting effect. However, cholinergic agents should be used for a few weeks while abstaining from caffeine to load depleted dopamine levels. After your pre-synaptic cleft is loaded with dopamine, cholinergic compounds become irrelevant, and you should use only ergoloid mesylates to stimulate the formation of new dendrites. A dose of 9 mg a day is effective for most adult men.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Have you tried these substances yourself?

smaul

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Re: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2007, 06:38:45 AM »
That's not quite right, but here's not the place to discuss that.

It helps as much as those pills for concentration, if not better and has no side.

Why do it the hard way when you can do it the easy way with drugs?
It hasn't helped...

suckmymuscle

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Re: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2007, 03:47:29 PM »
Have you tried these substances yourself?

  Yes. Why? Does it show? ;)

SUCKMYMUSCLE

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Re: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2007, 04:38:28 PM »
  Yes. Why? Does it show? ;)

SUCKMYMUSCLE

What are your experiences with them? The Ergoloid mesylates sounds interesting, if you tried "them", did you get any nasty side effects? How did they affect your cognitive abilities?

In all fairness, you do write some very good posts.  :)

Necrosis

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Re: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2007, 07:29:00 PM »
there are a few nootropics that i routinely use.

for beginners any of the cetam's would be a good choice, with piracetam, aniracetam, oxiaracetam being the most popular wiht piracetam being the mildest. some normal nootrophics people might know of a vasodialators like ginko biloba and a good standby called bacopa monerii which is both a carminitive as well as mast cells stabilizer. you would have to add a choline donor such as alpha gpc or choline bitarate to avoid fuzziness. most of cetams have anxiolytic effects as well.

subletamine is another highly effective nootropic which is higly effect, there are others like  Huperzine A 
Galantamine,Idebenone,DMAE,  Acetyl L-Carnitine,Pyritinol,Centrophenoxine etc..  but youd have to do your research if you where to use some of these compounds as you could build quite a stack if you had some knowledge.

another novel nootropic i have used is picamilon which is basically gaba bound to niacin which allows for access to the brain, because gaba does not cross the BBB via oral administration. it is mainly used as an anxiolytic, anti depressant, but has a unique stimulating, and relaxing effect at high doses, its also cheap!!

my adivice is to stick with a cetam, most likely piracetam as its mild and most studied. all nootrophics are inherently toxic, and may potentiate glutamate degeneration as seen in alzheimers. the info is clouded with some studies showing neuroprotection while others showing possible toxicity not related to drug levels. thus try piracetam at low-moderate doses, and you may potentiate it with a vasodialator like picamilon or gingko if you need a little more kick. good old caffiene is a nice nootrophic as well which shows increase in global concentration. thats a bit of info but its a run down of some, as there are many with many many mechanisms of action.

Necrosis

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Re: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2007, 07:33:53 PM »
  There are basically two types of smart drugs, cholinergic agents and ergoloid mesylate alkaloids. The first kind include drugs such as piracetam, a GABA-derived compound that inhibits dopamine release thus causing it's accumulation in the pre-synaptic cleft. This class of drugs works primarilly by loading neurons with neurotransmitters that get depleted due to stress - and by stimulatory substances sych as caffeine and nicotine. They make you smarter by making your thinking quicker and giving you mental energy.

  Ergoloid mesylates are alkaloids from rye. They work differently from cholinergic agents: while cholinergic agents make you smarter by increasing synaptic levels of dopamine by inhibiting it's release, rye alkoloids work by increasing blood and oxygen flow to the brain as well as stimulating the formation of new dendrites. Cholinergic agents only allow you to use your intelligence to the best of it's capacity by giving you more mental energy, but rye alkaloids might actually increase intelligence itself by boosting dendrital density. It is speculative, but probable. I believe that mesylate ergoloids are more efrfective smart drugs than cholinergic agents due to their dendrite-boosting effect. However, cholinergic agents should be used for a few weeks while abstaining from caffeine to load depleted dopamine levels. After your pre-synaptic cleft is loaded with dopamine, cholinergic compounds become irrelevant, and you should use only ergoloid mesylates to stimulate the formation of new dendrites. A dose of 9 mg a day is effective for most adult men.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

 just to add to this point ssris have shown to aid neuronal growth as well as ashwagandha which is pretty interesting. wellbutrin is a prescription drug worth looking in too for motivation and concentration, but in some it causes fog which is interesting.

Necrosis

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Re: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2007, 07:42:28 PM »
http://smart-nutrition.net/JamesSouth-piracetam.htm



great article on piracetam and best website to buy from

The Master

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Re: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2007, 08:04:30 PM »
there are a few nootropics that i routinely use.

for beginners any of the cetam's would be a good choice, with piracetam, aniracetam, oxiaracetam being the most popular wiht piracetam being the mildest. some normal nootrophics people might know of a vasodialators like ginko biloba and a good standby called bacopa monerii which is both a carminitive as well as mast cells stabilizer. you would have to add a choline donor such as alpha gpc or choline bitarate to avoid fuzziness. most of cetams have anxiolytic effects as well.

subletamine is another highly effective nootropic which is higly effect, there are others like  Huperzine A 
Galantamine,Idebenone,DMAE,  Acetyl L-Carnitine,Pyritinol,Centrophenoxine etc..  but youd have to do your research if you where to use some of these compounds as you could build quite a stack if you had some knowledge.

another novel nootropic i have used is picamilon which is basically gaba bound to niacin which allows for access to the brain, because gaba does not cross the BBB via oral administration. it is mainly used as an anxiolytic, anti depressant, but has a unique stimulating, and relaxing effect at high doses, its also cheap!!

my adivice is to stick with a cetam, most likely piracetam as its mild and most studied. all nootrophics are inherently toxic, and may potentiate glutamate degeneration as seen in alzheimers. the info is clouded with some studies showing neuroprotection while others showing possible toxicity not related to drug levels. thus try piracetam at low-moderate doses, and you may potentiate it with a vasodialator like picamilon or gingko if you need a little more kick. good old caffiene is a nice nootrophic as well which shows increase in global concentration. thats a bit of info but its a run down of some, as there are many with many many mechanisms of action.



Great post!

BFP

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Re: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2007, 09:04:08 PM »
Looking for a complete supplement that someone would like to recommend, my concetration is off, and any kind of fat burner ends up making me alert but not able to concentrate?

Thanks
[/quote

Im a huge fan of
Deprynyl
Piracetam
Aniracitam
Oxiracetam
Clear Edge
and Huperzine-A.  Just watch with any of the racetams, and especially piracetam.  It depletes choline and gives a mean fucking headache while doing it.  A little Aplha GPC or Lecithin will handle it though.  Piracetam also has a wierd dose response curve.

Jason

Necrosis

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Re: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2007, 09:35:08 PM »
Looking for a complete supplement that someone would like to recommend, my concetration is off, and any kind of fat burner ends up making me alert but not able to concentrate?

Thanks
[/quote

Im a huge fan of
Deprynyl
Piracetam
Aniracitam
Oxiracetam
Clear Edge
and Huperzine-A.  Just watch with any of the racetams, and especially piracetam.  It depletes choline and gives a mean fucking headache while doing it.  A little Aplha GPC or Lecithin will handle it though.  Piracetam also has a wierd dose response curve.

Jason

bump for deprenyl i love it as a drug, may cause agitation and anxiety in those prone to it however it should increase sexual desire and mood quite effectively.  what dosage do you use and what effects do you receive, with regards to mood, concentration etc. i apologize if anyone read my unedited version, i stated it had a tyramine effect but realized its a MAOI-B so it does not have this side.

Princess L

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Re: Anyone know of some good notropics ("smart drugs")?
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2007, 09:41:39 PM »
there are a few nootropics that i routinely use.

for beginners any of the cetam's would be a good choice, with piracetam, aniracetam, oxiaracetam being the most popular wiht piracetam being the mildest. some normal nootrophics people might know of a vasodialators like ginko biloba and a good standby called bacopa monerii which is both a carminitive as well as mast cells stabilizer. you would have to add a choline donor such as alpha gpc or choline bitarate to avoid fuzziness. most of cetams have anxiolytic effects as well.

subletamine is another highly effective nootropic which is higly effect, there are others like  Huperzine A 
Galantamine,Idebenone,DMAE,  Acetyl L-Carnitine,Pyritinol,Centrophenoxine etc..  but youd have to do your research if you where to use some of these compounds as you could build quite a stack if you had some knowledge.

another novel nootropic i have used is picamilon which is basically gaba bound to niacin which allows for access to the brain, because gaba does not cross the BBB via oral administration. it is mainly used as an anxiolytic, anti depressant, but has a unique stimulating, and relaxing effect at high doses, its also cheap!!

my adivice is to stick with a cetam, most likely piracetam as its mild and most studied. all nootrophics are inherently toxic, and may potentiate glutamate degeneration as seen in alzheimers. the info is clouded with some studies showing neuroprotection while others showing possible toxicity not related to drug levels. thus try piracetam at low-moderate doses, and you may potentiate it with a vasodialator like picamilon or gingko if you need a little more kick. good old caffiene is a nice nootrophic as well which shows increase in global concentration. thats a bit of info but its a run down of some, as there are many with many many mechanisms of action.

  You're speaking Greek :-[
: