Author Topic: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?  (Read 45725 times)

OzmO

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2008, 12:59:24 PM »
This is really interesting.

However, after reading the first link, i would approach this like many of the conspiracy theories posted in the politics board.

Have they done a carbon 14 on the main part of the shroud yet since they found the carbon 14 test done in '88 were on a medevil repair?

Why is this the shroud of Jesus?   Are the only real supporting evidence the location of cuts and such?   

If so how does that prove it was Jesus?

Is it possible that someone could have duplicated it unintentionally?  Or even intentionally?   I remember seeing a festival in Philippines where people mimic the suffering of Jesus.  Very bloody thing.   Could this have happened 200 years afterwards in some weird ritual?

My point is even, if the age fits, and the markings fit, it doesn't prove it's Jesus.   And even it was proven it was the Jesus in the Bible it doesn't prove Jesus's divinity and powers claimed in the bible.  It still could be, just a man, embroiled in a political power struggle between the house of David and the house of Herod.

And at what point is Carbon Dating reliable?   When we talk about evolution?  Or when we talk about the shroud?  Or when we talk about something that doesn't challenge the WOG in the bible?

I'd be real interested to see more about this however, becuase all the facts haven't come to light.  I would just say now, it's not near enough.

loco

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2008, 01:03:21 PM »
I did.  Thousands and thousands of people were crucified.  The story you provide as evidence re Joseph is interesting but probably not unique.

Then why has only a single crucified body ever been found by archaeologists?  I already told you:
 
Crucified bodies were usually left to decay on the cross and therefore would not be preserved, or they were thrown in mass graves, their legs usually broken.
 
The nose and face look european to me.  The hair is long and straight--european again.

By what measure?
 
I guess the appearance is subjective.  I was more interested in discussing the science and history of it.

Decker,
So you believe that many first century crucifixion victims were flogged, wore a crown of thorns, were speared through the side, were then taken down the cross without their legs being broken, were wrapped in a high quality shroud and put in an individual tomb?

loco

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2008, 01:13:03 PM »
This is really interesting.

However, after reading the first link, i would approach this like many of the conspiracy theories posted in the politics board.

Have they done a carbon 14 on the main part of the shroud yet since they found the carbon 14 test done in '88 were on a medevil repair?

Why is this the shroud of Jesus?   Are the only real supporting evidence the location of cuts and such?   

If so how does that prove it was Jesus?

Is it possible that someone could have duplicated it unintentionally?  Or even intentionally?   I remember seeing a festival in Philippines where people mimic the suffering of Jesus.  Very bloody thing.   Could this have happened 200 years afterwards in some weird ritual?

My point is even, if the age fits, and the markings fit, it doesn't prove it's Jesus.   And even it was proven it was the Jesus in the Bible it doesn't prove Jesus's divinity and powers claimed in the bible.  It still could be, just a man, embroiled in a political power struggle between the house of David and the house of Herod.

And at what point is Carbon Dating reliable?   When we talk about evolution?  Or when we talk about the shroud?  Or when we talk about something that doesn't challenge the WOG in the bible?

I'd be real interested to see more about this however, becuase all the facts haven't come to light.  I would just say now, it's not near enough.

OzmO, I can see you didn't bother to read half the stuff I posted.  We can discuss whether or not the man in the shroud is Jesus later, but this is no conspiracy theory.  These are real modern scientists who analyzed the shroud, using real science and we are talking about recent discoveries here.  Nobody can explain it and nobody knows how the image got on the shroud, whether it is from the first century or from the middle ages.

1978: The Shroud was on public exhibit for the first time since 1933 and was displayed for six weeks. Over 3 million people passed through the Cathedral of St. John the Baptist to view it behind bullet proof glass. At the close of the exhibition, 40 scientists comprising the Shroud of Turin Research Project (STURP), mostly from the United States, analyzed the Shroud for five continuous days (122 hours) working in shifts around the clock.

Tests performed in 1978 include:
Particle analysis
Chemical analysis
Blood analysis
Photo microscopy
Spectroscopy
X-ray radiography
Infra-red thermography
X-ray fluorescence spectrometry
Scanning photography from infra-red to ultra violet
And others 

1981: After three years analyzing the data The Shroud of Turn Research Project (STURP) made their findings public at an international conference in New London, CT. All the scientists agreed upon the following statement: "We can conclude for now that the Shroud image is that of a real human form of a scourged, crucified man. It is not the product of an artist. The blood stains are composed of hemoglobin and give a positive test for serum albumin."

OzmO,
Even if the image on the shroud is not that of Jesus, the Shroud of Turin is a mystery and it's very important to science and history.

If you don't have time to read all of my post and the other links I posted, at least read this and then watch the videos below:

What skeptics say:

"The debate over the origin and authenticity of the shroud steadily increased over the years. Many scientific investigations were carried out to get to the heart of the matter. Moreover, many scientific papers were written on the subject relating to the different theories concerning the structural make-up and image on the shroud. Most scientists took one of three prominent views; they either believed that the shroud was a "divine" creation or that the image was man made or that it was a natural phenomenon. The Shroud of Turin was without a doubt a mystery that challenged faith, science and understanding, one that rekindled man's inquisitive nature in a search for an explanation."
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/scams/shroud_of_turin/5.html

"Interestingly, Barbet also noticed that some of the blood stains flowed in unusual, almost unnatural directions on the arms. However, he realized that the stains were consistent with one's arms being outstretched and than lowered, much like someone's arms who had been crucified and then let down. If the blood flow was an artist's representation, it was masterfully conceived and skillfully carried out."
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/scams/shroud_of_turin/6.html

"Amazingly, no one has yet been able to successfully explain how the unique 3-D negative-like image on the shroud was constructed. In actuality that remains the biggest mystery."
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/scams/shroud_of_turin/9.html



"Rogers was further quoted in the article saying, "The chemistry says it was a real shroud, the blood spots on it are real blood, and the technology that was used to make that piece of cloth was exactly what Pliny the Elder reported fort his time." Pliny the Elder was an ancient Roman scientist and author who lived between 23 and 79 AD. Based on Rogers' research and historical data, the shroud has been accurately dated to around the time of Christ. The discovery rekindled the age-old debate of whether the shroud was or was not the actual burial cloth used to wrap Jesus' body. Chances are we will never know."
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/scams/shroud_of_turin/10.html

Shroud Of Turin Mystery - Part #1 Of 4


Shroud Of Turin Mystery - Part #2 Of 4
&feature=related

Shroud Of Turin Mystery - Part #3 Of 4
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Shroud Of Turin Mystery - Part #4 Of 4
&feature=related

Decker

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2008, 02:51:09 PM »
 
Quote
Then why has only a single crucified body ever been found by archaeologists?  I already told you:
 
Crucified bodies were usually left to decay on the cross and therefore would not be preserved, or they were thrown in mass graves, their legs usually broken.
Usually.  Usually is not always.
  
Quote
Decker,
So you believe that many first century crucifixion victims were flogged, wore a crown of thorns, were speared through the side, were then taken down the cross without their legs being broken, were wrapped in a high quality shroud and put in an individual tomb?
How on earth do you know that the alleged body wore a crown of thorns? 

You don't know.  That is your conclusion from the image.  That, and it fits your biblical prejudice.

How do you know the that the shroud was found originally in an individual tomb?

What about this?:

The shroud of Turin is a woven cloth about 14 feet long and 3.5 feet wide with an image of a man on it. Actually, it has two images, one frontal and one rear, with the heads meeting in the middle. It has been noted that if the shroud were really wrapped over a body there should be a space where the two heads meet. And the head is 5% too large for its body, the nose is disproportionate, and the arms are too long. Nevertheless, the image is believed by many to be a negative image of the crucified Christ and the shroud is believed to be his burial shroud. Most skeptics think the image is a painting and a pious hoax.  The shroud is kept in the cathedral of St. John the Baptist in Turin, Italy.
http://skepdic.com/shroud.html

That web page above gives both pro and con arguments and might be worth your time to look at.


OzmO

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2008, 07:10:54 PM »


loco, i don't think it's any sort of conspiracy in that sense other than the common fraud of holy relics of the times(middle ages), I'm just approaching it the same way becuase in doing so, it keeps things more objective.

I only read the first original link you posted. 

My question is, that if the first carbon dating wasn't on the actual fabric, but instead a repair, why not test the more towards the middle?

Also:

Quote
Then why has only a single crucified body ever been found by archaeologists?  I already told you:
 
Crucified bodies were usually left to decay on the cross and therefore would not be preserved, or they were thrown in mass graves, their legs usually broken.

This is speculation to think that becuase of this, this is Jesus.  It's supporting information, but not concrete.  That's the problem.

In the middle ages, the land was full of "holy relics".  they were bought and sold, used to attract followers.  I remember reading or watching something long ago, that some one estimated back then, that all the "pieces of wood" that were claimed to be from the cross would build a house.

I'm more inclined to believe that this is no different than the many holy relics of that time.  Do we really think that Jesus was the only person ever crucified and then buried afterwards?  doubt it. 

But i am really interested in it, especially if more tests are done.  they should do all those tests from 1978 now and what ever they have developed since then.

I wonder what blood type this person was?

Would you think Jesus blood, if he is GOD, be ordinary?




loco

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2008, 06:52:44 AM »
A lot of criticism and skepticism concerning the Shroud of Turin has come from Christians, both Catholics and Protestants.  Protestants don't believe in relics, least of all relics coming from the Roman Catholic Church and specially one that surfaced during the middle ages.  Many Christians believe that God would not have left behind an image of Jesus Christ which could easily become the object of idol worship.

I'm not claiming that the Shroud of Turin is the cloth that wrapped the dead body of Jesus.  Notice the title of this thread is not a claim but a question.

That the Shroud of Turin is the cloth that covered the crucified, dead body of Jesus of Nazareth, and that the image was formed on the cloth as a side effect of his resurrection are simply hypothesis.  These hypothesis are based on the scientific analysis of the shroud, what historians and archaeologists know of Roman crucifixion, and on what we know from the Gospels.

Personally, I always thought that the shroud was either a forgery by the Catholic Church or that it was really a cloth used to wrap the body of some dead man other than Jesus.   But after looking more into it, I now believe that there is a possibility, as small as it may be, that this was the burial cloth used to wrap the dead, crucified body of Jesus of Nazareth.

columbusdude82

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2008, 06:58:53 AM »
loco, I'd be impressed if the Lord posted a video of his own resurrection on Youtube. Some shroud of dubious repute is hardly worth mentioning.

loco

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2008, 07:04:58 AM »
Some shroud of dubious repute is hardly worth mentioning.

I'm surprised that a man of science such as yourself would say something like that.  Scientists, historians, archaeologists, photography experts, art experts and textile experts around the world would love to solve the mystery of the shroud, whether they believe in Jesus or not.

columbusdude82

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2008, 07:27:01 AM »
I'm not saying it ain't worth solving. I'm saying it's of dubious repute. That is due to its dubious origins. Didn't it show up in the Middle Ages? That's the age when Europe had a flourishing trade of relics including bones of Jesus and the saints, splinters from the cross, etc...

loco

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2008, 07:36:59 AM »
Didn't it show up in the Middle Ages? That's the age when Europe had a flourishing trade of relics including bones of Jesus and the saints, splinters from the cross, etc...

Here is the latest, this one from a shroud skeptic:

"Rogers was further quoted in the article saying, "The chemistry says it was a real shroud, the blood spots on it are real blood, and the technology that was used to make that piece of cloth was exactly what Pliny the Elder reported fort his time." Pliny the Elder was an ancient Roman scientist and author who lived between 23 and 79 AD. Based on Rogers' research and historical data, the shroud has been accurately dated to around the time of Christ. The discovery rekindled the age-old debate of whether the shroud was or was not the actual burial cloth used to wrap Jesus' body. Chances are we will never know."
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/scams/shroud_of_turin/10.html

And this one from the BBC:

Turin shroud 'older than thought'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4210369.stm

Parker

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2008, 08:16:27 AM »
mightymouse72,
It dates back to the time of Jesus Christ.  What you have read and what you have seen on TV is old news.  Read my entire post above.  I have links to the latest research and the latest news.

But the amazing thing is that even if it wasn't old enough to be the cloth that wrapped the body of Jesus, scientists cannot explain how in the world the image got photographed on the cloth fibers, they can't explain the negative image, the 3D encoding, the double face image, etc.  Nobody has been able to duplicate it as of today, though many have tried.  Nobody had the knowledge or the technology to do such a forgery in the middle ages.  Even if it's a forgery, what did the 13th century artist use, an atomic laser?

Another interesting thing is that neither Catholics nor Protestants care if the shroud is ever found to be, without a doubt, a 13th century artist's forgery.  It is science that has shown so far that it is not a forgery, but a mystery.

Supposedly the cloth dates back to Medieval times. There was a experiment to do something that the people of the time were doing, using lights and a shroud around a dead body or manikin . It produce the same effect. I also think that the face and body look like that of a old man, instead of a 33 year old man   

loco

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2008, 08:21:44 AM »
Supposedly the cloth dates back to Medieval times. There was a experiment to do something that the people of the time were doing, using lights and a shroud around a dead body or manikin . It produce the same effect. I also think that the face and body look like that of a old man, instead of a 33 year old man   

Hey Parker!  Do you have any references to this?  I would think that any person capable of duplicating the shroud image, along with all of its many peculiar and closely studied characteristics, would be a very wealthy, very famous person.

By the way, as of today, the shroud dates back to the time of Christ.  What dates back to medieval times is the section of the shroud which was carbon dated, which later turned out to be a reweave done during the middle ages to repair fire damage on the shroud.  Read my previews posts and links on this.

Parker

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2008, 09:52:33 AM »
Hey Parker!  Do you have any references to this?  I would think that any person capable of duplicating the shroud image, along with all of it's many peculiar and closely studied characteristics, would be a very wealthy, very famous person.

By the way, as of today, the shroud dates back to the time of Christ.  What dates back to medieval times is the section of the shroud which was carbon dated, which later turned out to be a reweave done during the middle ages to repair fire damage on the shroud.  Read my previews posts and links on this.

It was on the History or Discovery channel. They duplicated the the shroud using a medieval technique  of "X-ray". It was know back then as a way of faking death shrouds. They were saying that weave of the fibers was a medieval weave, and one could buy old materials back then. They did go over the theory of a the sheet going right thru the body during resurrection as well. They were not trying to dispel the Shroud, just showing what it could be.

loco

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2008, 12:00:15 PM »
I'm not saying it ain't worth solving. I'm saying it's of dubious repute. That is due to its dubious origins. Didn't it show up in the Middle Ages? That's the age when Europe had a flourishing trade of relics including bones of Jesus and the saints, splinters from the cross, etc...

columbusdude82,
Relics including the bones of Jesus?  Really?  Not from the Catholic Church, right?  Wouldn't such a relic make the church lose credibility and members instead?

Deicide

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2008, 04:50:36 PM »
If you believe the fairy tales of the New Testament then you will see in John 20:6-7, the cloth wrapped around Christ's head is clearly separate from the strips wound around his body, so any cloth showing both head and body (as the Turin shroud does) can't be the real thing. But as many have said, if it does indeed originate from the time of the alleged Jesus of Nazareth it could be one of thousands; however that doesn't stop religious nutcases from wish thinking.
I hate the State.

loco

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2008, 10:07:51 AM »
If you believe the fairy tales of the New Testament then you will see in John 20:6-7, the cloth wrapped around Christ's head is clearly separate from the strips wound around his body, so any cloth showing both head and body (as the Turin shroud does) can't be the real thing. But as many have said, if it does indeed originate from the time of the alleged Jesus of Nazareth it could be one of thousands; however that doesn't stop religious nutcases from wish thinking.

Ah, I'm glad that you brought that up, Trapezkerl!  This brings us to another very intersting artifact, The Sudarium of Oviedo - The Face Cloth.



John 20:6-7
"Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb; and he saw the linen cloths lying there, and the handkerchief that had been around His head, not lying with the linen cloths, but folded together in a place by itself."

In the city of Oviedo, in northern Spain, in a small chapel attached to the city’s cathedral, there is a small bloodstained dishcloth size piece of linen that some believe is one of the burial cloths mentioned in John’s Gospel. Tradition has it that this cloth, commonly known as the Sudarium of Oviedo, was used to cover Jesus’ bloodied face following his death on the cross.

Forensic analysis of the bloodstains suggests strongly that both the Sudarium and the Shroud covered the same human head at closely different times. Bloodstain patterns show that the Sudarium was placed about a man’s head while he was still in a vertical position, presumably before he was removed from the cross. It was then removed before the Shroud was placed over the man’s face.

If the Sudarium is related to the Shroud, the historical implications are dramatic. The Sudarium, unquestionably, has been in Oviedo since the 8th century and in Spain since the 7th century. It seems, according to various records, to have arrived from Jerusalem.
http://www.skepticalspectacle.com/history04.htm

There is no image on this cloth. Only stains are visible to the naked eye, although more is visible under the microscope. The remarkable thing about this cloth is that both tradition and scientific studies claim that the cloth was used to cover and clean the face of Jesus after the crucifixion. We are going to present and look into these claims.
http://www.shroud.com/guscin.htm

Sudarium of Oviedo (right), overlay of the Shroud of Turin (left) by Blandina Paschalis Schlömer


In 1999, Mark Guscin, a member of the multidisciplinary Investigation Team of the Centro Español de Sindonología, issued a detailed forensic and historical report entitled, "Recent Historical Investigations on the Sudarium of Oviedo." Guscin's report detailed recent findings of the history, forensic pathology, blood chemistry, and stain patterns on the Sudarium. His conclusion: the Sudarium and the Shroud of Turin had been used to cover the same injured head at closely different times. Here are some highlights from Guscin's report:

 It seems to be a funeral cloth that was probably placed over the head of the corpse of an adult male of normal constitution. The man whose face the Sudarium covered had a beard, moustache and long hair, tied up at the nape of his neck into a ponytail.

 The man was dead. The mechanism that formed the stains is incompatible with any kind of breathing movement.

 The man was wounded before death with something that made his scalp bleed and produced wounds on his neck, shoulders and upper part of the back.

 The man suffered a pulmonary edema as a consequence of the terminal process. The main stains are one part blood and six parts fluid from the pulmonary fluid.

 The only position compatible with the formation of the stains on the Oviedo cloth is both arms outstretched above the head and the feet in such a position as to make breathing very difficult, i.e. a position totally compatible with crucifixion. We can say that the man was wounded first (blood on the head, shoulders and back) and then 'crucified.'

 On reaching the destination, the body was placed face up and for unknown reasons, the cloth was taken off the head.

 The Sudarium contains pollen grains of Gundelia tournefortii, identical to that found of the Shroud that grows only east of the Mediterranean Sea as far north as Lebanon and as far south as Jerusalem.

 The blood (stain symmetry, type and other indicators) on the Sudarium matches the blood on the Shroud.
 

In summary, Guscin wrote:

There are many points of coincidence between all these points and the Shroud of Turin - the blood group, the way the corpse was tortured and died, and the macroscopic overlay of the stains on each cloth. This is especially notable in that the blood on the Sudarium, shed in life as opposed to postmortem, corresponds exactly in blood group, blood type and surface area to those stains on the Shroud on the nape of the neck. If it is clear that the two cloths must have covered the same corpse, and this conclusion is inevitable from all the studies carried out up to date, and if the history of the Sudarium can be trustworthily extended back beyond the fourteenth century, which is often referred to as the Shroud's first documented historical appearance, then this would take the Shroud back to at least the earliest dates of the Sudarium's known history. The ark of relics and the Sudarium have without any doubt at all been in Spain since the beginning of the seventh century, and the history recorded in various manuscripts from various times and geographical areas take it all the way back to Jerusalem in the first century. The importance of this for Shroud history cannot be overstressed.
http://www.shroudstory.com/faq-sudarium.htm

tu_holmes

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2008, 11:33:48 AM »
This seems so similar to this.

 ???




loco

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2008, 11:37:41 AM »
This seems so similar to this.

 ???


But it's not.  Both the Shroud of Turin and the The Sudarium of Oviedo have been studied by scientists, forensic experts, art and photography experts, fabric experts, etc.  These are both taken very seriously and they are so far mysteries that defy science and faith.

Also, notice that The Sudarium of Oviedo has no image, only blood stains and pulmonary fluid.  All conclusions about it come from scientific studies and historical records.

tu_holmes

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2008, 11:42:53 AM »
But it's not.  Both the Shroud of Turin and the The Sudarium of Oviedo have been studied by scientists, forensic experts, art and photography experts, fabric experts, etc.  These are both taken very seriously and they are so far mysteries that defy science and faith.

To me, it's just like a person who sees The virgin mary in a grilled cheese sandwich



I see no difference.

loco

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2008, 11:46:00 AM »
To me, it's just like a person who sees The virgin mary in a grilled cheese sandwich

I see no difference.

You see no difference, but scientists and experts do see the difference.  My reply to you still stands:

Both the Shroud of Turin and the The Sudarium of Oviedo have been studied by scientists, forensic experts, art and photography experts, fabric experts, etc.  These are both taken very seriously and they are so far mysteries that defy science and faith.

Also, notice that The Sudarium of Oviedo has no image, only blood stains and pulmonary fluid.  All conclusions about it come from scientific studies and historical records.

tu_holmes

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2008, 12:03:03 PM »
You see no difference, but scientists and experts do see the difference.  My reply to you still stand:


If you say so.

loco

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2008, 12:08:05 PM »
If you say so.

Yes I do, and so do scientists and experts.  Look into it youserlf if you'd like.

loco

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #47 on: June 02, 2008, 10:41:48 AM »
Oxford lab to revisit carbon dating of Shroud of Turin

Colorado Springs, May 23, 2008 / 05:01 am (CNA).- A physics professor has persuaded an Oxford laboratory to revisit the question of the age of the Shroud of Turin, the reputed burial shroud of Jesus Christ.  The professor argues that carbon monoxide contaminating the shroud could have distorted its radiocarbon dating results by more than 1,000 years.



In 1988 and 1989 scientists at three laboratories drew on the results of radiocarbon dating to conclude that the shroud was a medieval forgery.  They dated its creation to between 1260 and 1390 AD.

The Denver Post reports that John Jackson, a physics lecturer at the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs, has hypothesized that even minimal contamination of the shroud by environmental carbon monoxide could have skewed the dating by 1,300 years. 

Professor Christopher Ramsey, head of the Oxford University Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit, has agreed to test Jackson’s hypothesis.  Ramsey said that other forensic and historical evidence indicates the shroud is much older than radiocarbon dating results initially indicated.

"Science still has much to tell us about the shroud," said Jackson, a devout Catholic who heads the Colorado Springs-based Shroud of Turin Center. "If we are dealing with the burial cloth of Christ, it is the witness to the birth of Christianity. But my faith doesn't depend on that outcome," he told the Denver Post.

Jackson must prove a viable pathway for carbon monoxide contamination.  He is working with Oxford to test linen samples subjected to various conditions the shroud has experienced, including outdoor exhibitions and exposure to extreme heat during a fire in 1532.

In 1978, Jackson led a research team given unprecedented access to the shroud.  The team determined that the shroud was not painted, dyed or stained.

The Shroud of Turin bears faint brown discolorations that form the negative image of a man.  A positive image of the shroud was produced only with the arrival of modern photography.

Forensic data indicates the bloodstains on the shroud are real and were stained on the cloth before the image of the body appeared, the Denver Post reports.  Stains around the head are consistent with punctures by thorns, while the scourge marks are consistent with those made by a Roman whip.  A large puncture wound on the man’s side is also consistent with that made by a Roman spear.

Though medieval iconography portrays Jesus nailed to the cross through his palms and the front of his feet, archaeologists have found the bones of a Roman crucifixion victim nailed through the wrists and heels.

There is no consensus regarding what medieval methods, if any, could have created the shroud.

Though the Vatican keeps the shroud locked in a protective chamber at the Cathedral of St. John the Baptist in Turin, Italy, the Catholic Church makes no claims about its authenticity.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=12725

loco

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #48 on: June 02, 2008, 10:42:43 AM »
Pope says Shroud of Turin will go on display in 2010
June 02, 2008 08:35 EDT

VATICAN CITY (AP) -- The Shroud of Turin will go on rare public display again -- in two years.

The strip of linen that some believe was the burial cloth of Jesus Christ was last shown to the public in 2000.

Pope Benedict made the announcement today at a special audience for 7,000 pilgrims from Turin. He says he hopes to attend the display himself.

The shroud, which is kept in Turin's Roman Catholic cathedral, is about 14 feet long and 3-and-a-half feet wide. Believers say the image on the cloth was left by Christ's body after he was taken off the cross.

The shroud's age has long been a subject of debate. A carbon-dating test in 1988 declared that it came from medieval times. Another study says it originated around Jerusalem sometime before the eighth century.
http://www.kgan.com/template/inews_wire/wires.international/35d97d96-www.kgan.com.shtml

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Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #49 on: June 02, 2008, 07:04:31 PM »
Pope says Shroud of Turin will go on display in 2010
June 02, 2008 08:35 EDT

VATICAN CITY (AP) -- The Shroud of Turin will go on rare public display again -- in two years.

The strip of linen that some believe was the burial cloth of Jesus Christ was last shown to the public in 2000.

Pope Benedict made the announcement today at a special audience for 7,000 pilgrims from Turin. He says he hopes to attend the display himself.

The shroud, which is kept in Turin's Roman Catholic cathedral, is about 14 feet long and 3-and-a-half feet wide. Believers say the image on the cloth was left by Christ's body after he was taken off the cross.

The shroud's age has long been a subject of debate. A carbon-dating test in 1988 declared that it came from medieval times. Another study says it originated around Jerusalem sometime before the eighth century.
http://www.kgan.com/template/inews_wire/wires.international/35d97d96-www.kgan.com.shtml

The very fact that the Gospels are fictional accounts at worst and pseudohistory at best speaks volumes as to the veracity of the socalled 'shroud'.
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