did god invented time as well?

[beatmaster]

how can i put this?

time was there before god or not?

[Deicide]

how can i put this?

well, if god invented everything, he couldn't invented time, because from nothing to everything you need a starting time and an ending time, something, from one point to another time is always there, so time was there before god?

how can this be? does it make sense?

and what was there before god? where does he come from? there too you need time, elapse or something...

Ta grammaire, mon frere!

De toute facon, invented, invent....

[beatmaster]

Ta grammaire, mon frere!

De toute facon, invented, invent....

oops , lolll

[columbusdude82]

how can i put this?

well, if god invent everything, he couldn't invent time, because from nothing to everything you need a starting time and an ending time, something, from one point to another time is always there, so time was there before god?

how can this be? does it make sense?

and what was there before god? where does he come from? there too you need time, elapse or something...

Slow night in Montreal, huh?

[beatmaster]

lolllllll, that bad?

maybe i should rephrase that , lmao

guess i'm a little slow today

[columbusdude82]

lolllllll, man what can i say, that bad?

I just don't get your argument is all

[beatmaster]

 take 2, lolllllll

to go from nothing to everything (since god invent everything) you need a starting time and an ending time, so time was there before he did all that, so god did not invent everything... lollllll

[columbusdude82]

take 2, lolllllll

to go from nothing to everything (since god invent everything) you need a starting time and an ending time, so time was there before he did all that, so god did not invent everything... lollllll

Well, I guess you have the Genesis account in mind. Genesis 1:1 says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

The starting point was time t_0 in our frame of reference... of course, assuming this narrative is true, which I don't believe it is.

If it helps, you can postulate "negative time" for what came before the moment of creation, if such a creation had occurred.

[beatmaster]

something like that, today i was thinking about that, i had the perfect question, but damn i can't find the words (since i'm a frenchy quebecois, lollllll)

[columbusdude82]

Tu peux poser tes questions en Francais si tu veux. On peut toujours traduire.

[beatmaster]

Tu peux poser tes questions en Francais si tu veux. On peut toujours traduire.

oooh, parle très bien francais en plus, plein de surprise columbusdude! soit que tu est francais ou très bon à l'école!

[columbusdude82]

oooh, parle très bien francais en plus, plein de surprise columbusdude! soit que tu est francais ou très bon à l'école!

Je me debrouille...

[Deicide]

oooh, parle très bien francais en plus, plein de surprise columbusdude! soit que tu est francais ou très bon à l'école!

Tu dis ca a tout le monde!

[columbusdude82]

OK so here's Frenchy's question:

tu vois, du moment ou il as pensé a tout faire j'usqu'au moment ou il as tous réaliser, ou meme du moment ou il as été conscient qu'il pouvait le faire....... le temps sécoulait (une période) il y avait donc un espace temps.

en plus il arrive de nul part, d'un vide total......

ma conclusion est que le temps a toujours existé (peu importe comment on l'appelle).

Tu as raison quand tu dis qu'une personne (humaine ou divine, n'importe pas) commence par penser. Alors le temps (un instant ou une eternite) s'ecoule la. La Bible n'est pas claire sur ce point la. Mais laissons la mythologie pour les cons et parlons science!

Ta conclusion "que le temps a toujours existé" est disputee par la physique moderne. Comment dit-on "Big Bang Singularity" en Francais? As-tu lu Stephen Hawking's "A Brief History of Time"? 

In brief, my answer to Frenchy is that Genesis is unclear about any periods of time that may have elapsed (between verses), but his conclusion that time has no beginning does not follow, and is disputed by modern physics

[Deicide]

OK so here's Frenchy's question:

Tu as raison quand tu dis qu'une personne (humaine ou divine, n'importe pas) commence par penser. Alors le temps (un instant ou une eternite) s'ecoule la. La Bible n'est pas claire sur ce point la. Mais laissons la mythologie pour les cons et parlons science!

Ta conclusion "que le temps a toujours existé" est disputee par la physique moderne. Comment dit-on "Big Bang Singularity" en Francais? As-tu lu Stephen Hawking's "A Brief History of Time"? 

In brief, my answer to Frenchy is that Genesis is unclear about any periods of time that may have elapsed (between verses), but his conclusion that time has no beginning does not follow, and is disputed by modern physics

There are verb conjugation errors involving conflation of the second person singular conjugation of avoir with that of the third person singular.

Vide total= videsse totale

Neanmoins tu m'as franchement impose! School?

[columbusdude82]

There are verb conjugation errors involving conflation of the second person singular conjugation of avoir with that of the third person singular.

Where?

Vide total= videsse totale

Huh?

Neanmoins tu m'as franchement impose! School?

When I sold my soul to Satan in order to become an atheist, part of the deal was that I would "speak in tongues" to deceive the faithful

[beatmaster]

Tu dis ca a tout le monde!

mais non, j'ai eu la meme reaction avec toi, avoue que c'est quand meme surprenant de voir un anglophone écrire presque parfaitement en francais!

c'est soit francais ou l'école!

[beatmaster]

thank columbusdude!

so i guess we will never have the answer.

but if you use logic, time (or whatever you call it) was always there, before god or the time he knew he could do his creation...

Stephen Hawking's : A Brief History of Time   .... no, but i will read it!

frenchy 

[I ETA PI]

A given reality will create that which is necessary for its existance. 
Time is a construct of a 3 dimensional world, which our reality is contained in. 

Time created itself.

[Butterbean]

Genesis 1:3-5
And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.


I guess you could say the above could indicate that God invented time.






Je parle un peu francais aussi, mais je suis tres terrible!

[I ETA PI]

Sounds catchy but lacks substance. How can reality create something? Reality is the creation itself. The word 'creation' automatically assumes 'something' by which means forms can manifest. Quite obviously, this something cannot be part of manifested reality itself.

And why should time be a construct of space?

The rule of falcity. 
Without space, there is no need for time. 

The laws of physics are constraints which define the structure of spacetime, whereas freedom is that which is bound or logically quantified by the constraints in question. Now, since there is no real time scale external to reality, there is no extrinsic point in time at which the moment of creation can be located, and this invalidates phrases like  "before reality existed" and "when reality created itself".  So rather than asking "when" the universe came to be, or what existed "before" the universe was born, we must instead ask "what would remain if the structural constraints defining the real universe were regressively suspended?" First, time would gradually disappear, eliminating the "when" question entirely. And once time disappears completely, what remains is the answer to the "what" question: a realm of boundless potential characterized by a total lack of real constraint. In other words, the real universe timelessly emerges from a background of logically unquantified potential to which the concepts of space and time simply do not apply. 

hope this helps.

[wavelength]

The rule of falcity. 
Without space, there is no need for time. 

That maybe right but does not prove that time is a construct of space

The laws of physics are constraints which define the structure of spacetime, whereas freedom is that which is bound or logically quantified by the constraints in question. Now, since there is no real time scale external to reality, there is no extrinsic point in time at which the moment of creation can be located, and this invalidates phrases like  "before reality existed" and "when reality created itself".  So rather than asking "when" the universe came to be, or what existed "before" the universe was born, we must instead ask "what would remain if the structural constraints defining the real universe were regressively suspended?" First, time would gradually disappear, eliminating the "when" question entirely. And once time disappears completely, what remains is the answer to the "what" question: a realm of boundless potential characterized by a total lack of real constraint. In other words, the real universe timelessly emerges from a background of logically unquantified potential to which the concepts of space and time simply do not apply. 

hope this helps.

Hmm, who wrote that?

In any case, I don't see a deduction of your original statement that time creates itself or that a reality creates its necessities. Other than that, it is an interesting article, although it fails to explain what this mysterious 'realm of boundless potential' or 'logically unquantified potential' is, space and time emerges from.

IMO this 'potential' is what is really out there without human consciousness. Space and time only exist in the human realm, they are the forms of human perception. If we break down what space and time really are, we quickly see that there is no objective reality to them.

[I ETA PI]

That maybe right but does not prove that time is a construct of space

Hmm, who wrote that?

In any case, I don't see a deduction of your original statement that time creates itself or that a reality creates its necessities. Other than that, it is an interesting article, although it fails to explain what this mysterious 'realm of boundless potential' or 'logically unquantified potential' is, space and time emerges from.

IMO this 'potential' is what is really out there without human consciousness. Space and time only exist in the human realm, they are the forms of human perception. If we break down what space and time really are, we quickly see that there is no objective reality to them.

e=mc2 basically explains how time is a construct of space. 
Energy is matter times the speed of light (as measured by "time" as a travel through space) squared.  So, time is a "construct" of matter, which is essentially space.  (obviously anti-matter, m-theory, etc., could drag this out forever.

By definition, there is nothing outside of reality that is real enough to contain reality. So reality is self-contained. A self-contained medium must provide that which is necessary to its own existence. So if energy is necessary for the existence of reality, reality must find that energy within itself. Because matter consists of energy according to (again) e=mc2, this applies to matter as well.  That is, the universe, using its own energy, made its own matter.  How could it do this?  By configuring itself in such a way that the matter it made would be “recognized” as such by other matter. 

[Deicide]

e=mc2 basically explains how time is a construct of space. 
Energy is matter times the speed of light (as measured by "time" as a travel through space) squared.  So, time is a "construct" of matter, which is essentially space.  (obviously anti-matter, m-theory, etc., could drag this out forever.

By definition, there is nothing outside of reality that is real enough to contain reality. So reality is self-contained. A self-contained medium must provide that which is necessary to its own existence. So if energy is necessary for the existence of reality, reality must find that energy within itself. Because matter consists of energy according to (again) e=mc2, this applies to matter as well.  That is, the universe, using its own energy, made its own matter.  How could it do this?  By configuring itself in such a way that the matter it made would be “recognized” as such by other matter. 

Jebus did it! 

[MMC78]

Hmm, who wrote that?

Looks to be stolen from an interview:
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=102500