Intelligent Design at its best!

[Dos Equis]

that and the fact that god is described as all knowing in the bible.

the fact that your sayhing he is unaware of crack babies contradicts this and the above passage. I get my info from my own mind for the most part with concerns to the bible, i dont even have to read it to know its ludacris. the sheer terrorism of it turns me off.

I didn't say He is unaware of crack babies.  I said He doesn't plan them.  It's the mother and father who choose to have sex, produce a baby, and the mom who chooses to smoke while she is pregnant that causes a crack baby. 

I just watched part of the clip and if you get info from your own mind then the person who made that clip is inside your head.    That is precisely the same stuff you say on the board (e.g., why doesn't God heal an amputee, etc.). 

[Decker]

We are indeed responsible for our own acts.

That whole God sacrificing his Son thing is in the book of Mathew.  You should read it.  Great story.   

I'm switching off reading books about Nietzsche and World War Hulk.  I'm certain this Matthew you speak of is right up there with those tomes.

[Straw Man]

There is nothing inconsistent about my opinion. 

actually almost everything you say on this site is inconsistent.  This topic is a perfect example.  First you say you don't know God's plan but then you know what god doesn't plan - and you can't understand how that's inconsistent - obviously no point in going any further with this.  Time to go show my dog a card trick

God doesn't force people to make choices.  That's one of the beauties of being a Christian:  the power of choice.  That's one of the marvelous things about God:  that He sacrificed His Son so I could choose whether to follow God.  It's awesome. 

I can't even express in words just how creepy I find this statement
 

I don't intend to keep repeating myself.  You are welcome to disagree with my opinion.  And I'm certainly not going to change my opinion because you think it's inconsistent. 

I've come to expect nothing less.  The cement in your head dried a long time ago.   I have no expectation that you would revise your belief or understanding about anything or for that matter even look at anything that contradicts or challenges your pre-conceived beliefs

I tend to use a human perspective because I'm human. 

yet you have no problem using your finite human perspective to understand the intentions of the infinite or at least what it doesn't intend 

But yes, I believe God cares about everyone.  Even you.    

no doubt - but then again if I don't accept his "son" as my personal saviour god has no choice but to condemn me to eternal suffering.....at least according to that "awesome" loving and compassionate religion called christianity

I don't need a lesson in humility.  Humility has nothing to do with anything I've said. 

Almost everyone could use a bit more humility - especially religious ideologues such as.....yourself   

 

[Dos Equis]

Just to keep things in perspective.   

quote author=Straw Man
I never debate religion and I've never post on the religion board (I've only looked at it once or twice) 

In my opinion it's pointless to debate with someone who holds a position without evidence or in contrary to evidence.

Besides, my personal belief is anyone who holds a fundamentalist belief in any religion is mentally ill (for real) which again makes for a pointless discussion

[Straw Man]

Just to keep things in perspective.   

Yep - I stand by that statement.  You seem to go to great lengths to align your beliefs with the "challenges" of reality.  I'm not saying you're mentally ill but I do think your logical contortions and semantic gymnastics make you appear to be a bit kooky - but in a totally harmless way

The ones who are truly ill are the ones who's beliefs drive them to take actions that most normal people would consider crazy - things like bombing abortion clinics, shooting doctors, suicide bombers, flying planes into buildings, the westboro baptist church family etc...

[Deedee]

Beach, you sound an awful lot like the Christians who supported Eugenics in the early 20th century. 

You've said that you believe every hair on your head is counted, and that God has intervened in your life, graced you with blessings, yet you believe that God forsakes the lives of others? It looks like that original pic is of conjoined twins, where one was not fully formed. How do you know that wasn't in God's plan, for reasons unknown to man? Or on the other hand, perhaps to remind mankind of his original sin? There are many birth defects that are chromosomal, passed down through genetics, and therefore would seem to be a part of God's plan.

Here are some ladies you would probably hurt very much with your comments, and who believe that their defective children have a reason and purpose for being here.

http://www.mommylife.net/archives/2006/01/gods_role_in_bi.html

Wow, just stumbled on to your site and I'll be bookmarking it. I am the mother of not one but 2 children born w/ birth defects. Various severities of cleft/lp palate to be exact. I haven't read through your whole blog(yet) but I read enough to have me come back!! I read about the prenatal testing, the fears, wanting to terminate, coming out the other side, people who choose termination, God's purpose for children w/ birth defects... sooooo good!!! I put on my twins' birth announcement under my son John 9:1-3 "... but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life." I'm still tested, still worry, still wonder. I think I'm one of God's saltier soldiers. Thanks, I'll be back.

Colleen

[Straw Man]

Beach, you sound an awful lot like the Christians who supported Eugenics in the early 20th century. 

You've said that you believe every hair on your head is counted, and that God has intervened in your life, graced you with blessings, yet you believe that God forsakes the lives of others? It looks like that original pic is of conjoined twins, where one was not fully formed. How do you know that wasn't in God's plan, for reasons unknown to man? Or on the other hand, perhaps to remind mankind of his original sin? There are many birth defects that are chromosomal, passed down through genetics, and therefore would seem to be a part of God's plan.

exactly - how do you know this Bum?

For reasons known only to Beach Bum and God I assume but I'm hoping he'll enlighten us

[Dos Equis]

Beach, you sound an awful lot like the Christians who supported Eugenics in the early 20th century. 

You've said that you believe every hair on your head is counted, and that God has intervened in your life, graced you with blessings, yet you believe that God forsakes the lives of others? It looks like that original pic is of conjoined twins, where one was not fully formed. How do you know that wasn't in God's plan, for reasons unknown to man? Or on the other hand, perhaps to remind mankind of his original sin? There are many birth defects that are chromosomal, passed down through genetics, and therefore would seem to be a part of God's plan.

Here are some ladies you would probably hurt very much with your comments, and who believe that their defective children have a reason and purpose for being here.

http://www.mommylife.net/archives/2006/01/gods_role_in_bi.html

Wow, just stumbled on to your site and I'll be bookmarking it. I am the mother of not one but 2 children born w/ birth defects. Various severities of cleft/lp palate to be exact. I haven't read through your whole blog(yet) but I read enough to have me come back!! I read about the prenatal testing, the fears, wanting to terminate, coming out the other side, people who choose termination, God's purpose for children w/ birth defects... sooooo good!!! I put on my twins' birth announcement under my son John 9:1-3 "... but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life." I'm still tested, still worry, still wonder. I think I'm one of God's saltier soldiers. Thanks, I'll be back.

Colleen

lol.  Hold on Hoss.  lol.  (Don't know the female equivalent of Hoss.)  I didn't say a word about eugenics.  Won't even address that one.  That's beyond absurd.     

I think you misunderstand my position.  I do not believe God plans birth defects.  What I believe is God has a "conditional will" that is the result of choices we make.  For example, I don't think He plans for a parent to rape their child, resulting in a baby with physical/mental problems.  He doesn't force a person to commit that kind of heinous act.  What He does, in my view, is bless the results of that act by caring for the people involved and using the birth to benefit someone, someway.  Every birth and every child is a blessing, regardless of whether they are "normal" or have physical or mental problems.  That doesn't mean God plans each birth.  He doesn't.  We do.  It's our choice to have sex and make babies.  Or not.   

I have been blessed immensely in spite of who I am.  I take nothing for granted.  I didn't earn a thing.  It is only because, as my buddy says about himself, "God had pity on a fool."  God cares no more or no less about me than you or anyone else.  I've never said anything otherwise.   

And I never said God forsakes anyone.  Quit making stuff up.     

[Deicide]

Yep - I stand by that statement.  You seem to go to great lengths to align your beliefs with the "challenges" of reality.  I'm not saying you're mentally ill but I do think your logical contortions and semantic gymnastics make you appear to be a bit kooky - but in a totally harmless way

The ones who are truly ill are the ones who's beliefs drive them to take actions that most normal people would consider crazy - things like bombing abortion clinics, shooting doctors, suicide bombers, flying planes into buildings, the westboro baptist church family etc...

Word to big bird!

[Deicide]

lol.  Hold on Hoss.  lol.  (Don't know the female equivalent of Hoss.)  I didn't say a word about eugenics.  Won't even address that one.  That's beyond absurd.     

I think you misunderstand my position.  I do not believe God plans birth defects.  What I believe is God has a "conditional will" that is the result of choices we make.  For example, I don't think He plans for a parent to rape their child, resulting in a baby with physical/mental problems.  He doesn't force a person to commit that kind of heinous act.  What He does, in my view, is bless the results of that act by caring for the people involved and using the birth to benefit someone, someway.  Every birth and every child is a blessing, regardless of whether they are "normal" or have physical or mental problems.  That doesn't mean God plans each birth.  He doesn't.  We do.  It's our choice to have sex and make babies.  Or not.   

I have been blessed immensely in spite of who I am.  I take nothing for granted.  I didn't earn a thing.  It is only because, as my buddy says about himself, "God had pity on a fool."  God cares no more or no less about me than you or anyone else.  I've never said anything otherwise.   

And I never said God forsakes anyone.  Quit making stuff up.     

Are you stupid?

Most birth defects result from normanl men and women fucking and reproducing, not rape and incest.

Normal people. So much for intelligent design.

Mental gymnastics is the right word. You should check out some other religions. Maybe it was Apollo and Demeter 'blessing' you and not Jehovah the angry fertility deity of goatherders...

[Straw Man]

That doesn't mean God plans each birth.  He doesn't. 

Bum, how is it exactly that you are privy to the intentions/actions of the creator of the universe???

[Straw Man]

Word to big bird!

I was trying to be nice

I actually think he's a world class douche bag most of the time

[Dos Equis]

Are you stupid?

Most birth defects result from normanl men and women fucking and reproducing, not rape and incest.

Normal people. So much for intelligent design.

Mental gymnastics is the right word. You should check out some other religions. Maybe it was Apollo and Demeter 'blessing' you and not Jehovah the angry fertility deity of goatherders...

Me stupid?  Depends on who you talk to.   

Birth defects are abnormal.  But I think I've said that.  And I didn't say people necessarily do anything to contribute to birth defects.  Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.  What happens every single time a child is born, however, is people choose to have the child, unless the woman is raped.

You should read more about internet trolls and what a scourge they can be on discussion boards.     

[Deedee]

lol.  Hold on Hoss.  lol.  (Don't know the female equivalent of Hoss.)  I didn't say a word about eugenics.  Won't even address that one.  That's beyond absurd.     

I think you misunderstand my position.  I do not believe God plans birth defects.  What I believe is God has a "conditional will" that is the result of choices we make.  For example, I don't think He plans for a parent to rape their child, resulting in a baby with physical/mental problems.  He doesn't force a person to commit that kind of heinous act.  What He does, in my view, is bless the results of that act by caring for the people involved and using the birth to benefit someone, someway.  Every birth and every child is a blessing, regardless of whether they are "normal" or have physical or mental problems.  That doesn't mean God plans each birth.  He doesn't.  We do.  It's our choice to have sex and make babies.  Or not.   

I have been blessed immensely in spite of who I am.  I take nothing for granted.  I didn't earn a thing.  It is only because, as my buddy says about himself, "God had pity on a fool."  God cares no more or no less about me than you or anyone else.  I've never said anything otherwise.   

And I never said God forsakes anyone.  Quit making stuff up.     

Hoss is fine. I wouldn't want to be called broodmare or something. 

I'm not making stuff up...you'll notice I put question marks after many comments as I was asking not telling. You do seem to have made yourself misunderstood on this thread BB.

I know you didn't say anything about eugenics, but you sounded, from your posts to discount the lives of children born with defects as you keep talking about births that are the result of depravity. Back then, the rationale was to sterilize deviants to keep them from producing fruits of sin.

Truth is, most birth defects, as Trapeze stated, are the result of genetics - Down's, Tay Sachs, etc. Genetic propensity for producing offspring with defects would point to these children as being God's creations and part of a larger plan. I posted that particular Mommielife reply because she mentioned  John 9:1-3 which had been the explanation given to me as a child when I asked why people were born challenged.

[Straw Man]

Me stupid?  Depends on who you talk to.   

I vote yes

actually - I really don't think you're stupid.  You seem smart enough at times but then other times ....

[Dos Equis]

Hoss is fine. I wouldn't want to be called broodmare or something. 

I'm not making stuff up...you'll notice I put question marks after many comments as I was asking not telling. You do seem to have made yourself misunderstood on this thread BB.

I know you didn't say anything about eugenics, but you sounded, from your posts to discount the lives of children born with defects as you keep talking about births that are the result of depravity. Back then, the rationale was to sterilize deviants to keep them from producing fruits of sin.

Truth is, most birth defects, as Trapeze stated, are the result of genetics - Down's, Tay Sachs, etc. Genetic propensity for producing offspring with defects would point to these children as being God's creations and part of a larger plan. I posted that particular Mommielife reply because she mentioned  John 9:1-3 which had been the explanation given to me as a child when I asked why people were born challenged.

Deedee I don't discount anyone's life.  Each one is special, including encephalic newborns, even though they live for just a short period of time.  The issue I was addressing was whether God plans birth defects.  I maintain the answer is "no." 

When I mentioned sin I wasn't necessarily talking about people contributing to birth defects.  That happens (e.g., my crack baby reference), but I was talking about Adam and Eve.  I know you've heard this before, but all sin on Earth originated from them.  All of the harmful, abnormal, etc. things we see today can be traced to them and the origination of sin with those two.  That's what my "sin" reference primarily related to.

[Dos Equis]

I vote yes

actually - I really don't think you're stupid.  You seem smart enough at times but then other times ....

 

[Straw Man]

hey man - at least I said you seemed smart sometimes and I'm sure you've got other great skills like pounding square pegs into square holes and things like that.

[Dos Equis]

hey man - at least I said you seemed smart sometimes and I'm sure you've got other great skills like pounding square pegs into square holes and things like that.

I've got mad skills man.  Just ask my kids.  I'm the Playstation king.  Beat the crap out of them so badly that some of them don't like to play me anymore.  My little one said I talk too much trash.   

[Deicide]

Deedee I don't discount anyone's life.  Each one is special, including encephalic newborns, even though they live for a just a short period of time.  The issue I was addressing was whether God plans birth defects.  I maintain the answer is "no." 

When I mentioned sin I wasn't necessarily talking about people contributing to birth defects.  That happens (e.g., my crack baby reference), but I was talking about Adam and Eve.  I know you've heard this before, but all sin on Earth originated from them.  All of the harmful, abnormal, etc. things we see today can be traced to them and the origination of sin with those two.  That's what my "sin" reference primarily related to.

                                             Adam and Fucking Eve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAAHAHA.........yup... .sin....


                                                    

                                                                

                                              

[Dos Equis]

                                            Adam and Fucking Eve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAAHAHA.........yup... .sin....


                                                    

                                                                

                                              

[Straw Man]

I've got mad skills man.  Just ask my kids.  I'm the Playstation king.  Beat the crap out of them so badly that some of them don't like to play me anymore.  My little one said I talk too much trash.   

I'm sure you're probably a good dad and your little one sounds pretty smart

[Deicide]

I'm sure you're probably a good dad and your little one sounds pretty smart

A good dad lies to his kids about ancient mythology being the absolute truth?

[Straw Man]

A good dad lies to his kids about ancient mythology being the absolute truth?

well in Bums defense he obviously doesn't think they are lies. 

[Dos Equis]

I'm sure you're probably a good dad and your little one sounds pretty smart

Is that a compliment?     Thanks.     My little one is very smart.  All of my kids are.  Including my oldest who was just teasing me about not knowing Calculus (I don't have a clue).