Intelligent Design at its best!

[Dos Equis]

man made?

I know where you're going with man made angle but birth defects happen with within "normal" populations every day.  I have friend who has a son with profound birth defect and he and his wife also have a perfectly healthy daughter

of course god makes people with birth defects

who else do you think is making them?

Birth defects by definition are abnormal.   

[Straw Man]

Birth defects by definition are abnormal.   

yeah so?

that doesn't mean they are not a creation of god

just like everything else that exists

yes - god makes babies with birth defects

what's the problem?

[Dos Equis]

yeah so?

that doesn't mean they are not a creation of god

just like everything else that exists

yes - god makes babies with birth defects

what's the problem?

Don't have a problem. 

As I said, God no more "creates" birth defects than he does a crack baby.   

[Straw Man]

Don't have a problem. 

As I said, God no more "creates" birth defects than he does a crack baby.   

does god create healthy babies?

When you create a list of categories of babies that god doesn't "plan" it suggest that he does plan others

If not, why not just say God doesn't plan any babies and leave it at that?

Dude I'm not missing your point, I just don't agree with your point.  He doesn't plan the birth as a result of a rape.  He doesn't plan births of people who have sex out of wedlock.  He doesn't plan crack babies.  He doesn't a low birth weight baby when a mother smokes during pregnancy.  He still blesses people who create babies when they shouldn't, but those certainly are planned.   

[Dos Equis]

No, God doesn't plan for women to smoke crack when they're pregnant, resulting in crack babies.  No, God doesn't plan for a man to rape a woman, resulting in a pregnancy.  No, God doesn't plan for women to smoke while they're pregnant resulting in low birth weight babies. 

We choose our path in life.  We can all choose to have babies or not (for the most part).  Women can choose to lead a healthy lifestyle during pregnancy or not.  People who carry genetic defects can choose whether or not to have babies.  Women in high risk categories (e.g., age 40 and over) can choose whether or not to have a baby.  What we do and the results of sin determine what kind of offspring we produce. 

[Straw Man]

Bum - there are plenty of birth defects that are completely undetectable and happen to healthy, happy Christian couples.

Does God plan those?

More to the point - why are you so confident in your own infallible human judgement when analyzing God's intention? 

[Dos Equis]

As I said, repeatedly, no God doesn't plan birth defects. 

Never said I have "infallible human judgment."  lol.  But nice try, "straw man." 

[Straw Man]

As I said, repeatedly, no God doesn't plan birth defects. 

Never said I have "infallible human judgment."  lol.  But nice try, "straw man." 

Bum - who are you to think you KNOW what god does and doesn't plan.  How about a little humility in deference to your creator.   Maybe some of his plans are just a bit beyond your ability to comprehend.
Has that ever occured to you?

Since you do seem to have special access to the mind of God can answer this question

Does God plan the healthy babies?  Yes or No

[Dos Equis]

lol.  What in the world are you talking about?  I'm expressing an opinion. 

I don't have special access to the mind of God, so I can't answer your question.  Next straw man question?   

And just so you know, I completely understand this entire exchange is disingenuous.   

[Straw Man]

lol.  What in the world are you talking about?  I'm expressing an opinion. 

I don't have special access to the mind of God, so I can't answer your question.  Next straw man question?   

And just so you know, I completely understand this entire exchange is disingenuous.   

my questions are not disingenious.   You're the one who seems to claim what God does and doesn't do.   

For instance you said he doesn't plan the birth as a result of rape.  How exactly do you know this?

You claim to know the kind of babies God doesn't plan why is it so hard to answer whether he plans the healthy babies?

Why not just say he plans no babies.

Or even better - why not say you have no clue what god plans/doesn't plan, etc.....

[Dos Equis]

As I said, I'm expressing an opinion.  I don't expect you to agree.  And when you say things like "How about a little humility in deference to your creator," you're obviously being disingenuous.  But hey this is only a message board.  Doesn't bother me.

You're asking me how exactly I know that God doesn't plan for a man to rape a woman?  Is that a serious question?  I'm not even sure how to answer that.  He doesn't plan criminal activity.   

Absent rape, people plan to have babies when they choose to have sex. 

I don't claim to know God's plan for anyone.  Never said I did.  But that's just another straw man.   

[Straw Man]

As I said, I'm expressing an opinion.  I don't expect you to agree.  And when you say things like "How about a little humility in deference to your creator," you're obviously being disingenuous.  But hey this is only a message board.  Doesn't bother me.

You're asking me how exactly I know that God doesn't plan for a man to rape a woman?  Is that a serious question?  I'm not even sure how to answer that.  He doesn't plan criminal activity.   

Absent rape, people plan to have babies when they choose to have sex. 

I don't claim to know God's plan for anyone.  Never said I did.  But that's just another straw man.   

Bum - my suggestion that you look at these questions with some humility was 100% genuine.     

Seriously - how do you have any idea what God plans, intends, etc...??   

You say you don't but then you turn around and say what god doesn't intend i.e rape, birth defects, etc..

You can't have it both ways

You're using your human perspective of right/wrong etc...  You really think God "cares" about the laws of man or our human perspective of Good and Evil?

Assuming that one believes in God one surely could understand that god has higher perpective on this these things 

At least I hope you could understand that but then we're back to the humility thing again.

[Dos Equis]

There is nothing inconsistent about my opinion.  God doesn't force people to make choices.  That's one of the beauties of being a Christian:  the power of choice.  That's one of the marvelous things about God:  that He sacrificed His Son so I could choose whether to follow God.  It's awesome. 

I don't intend to keep repeating myself.  You are welcome to disagree with my opinion.  And I'm certainly not going to change my opinion because you think it's inconsistent. 

I tend to use a human perspective because I'm human.  But yes, I believe God cares about everyone.  Even you.    

I don't need a lesson in humility.  Humility has nothing to do with anything I've said.       

 

[Decker]

There is nothing inconsistent about my opinion.  God doesn't force people to make choices.  That's one of the beauties of being a Christian:  the power of choice.  That's one of the marvelous things about God:  that He sacrificed His Son so I could choose whether to follow God.  It's awesome. 

I don't intend to keep repeating myself.  You are welcome to disagree with my opinion.  And I'm certainly not going to change my opinion because you think it's inconsistent. 

I tend to use a human perspective because I'm human.  But yes, I believe God cares about everyone.  Even you.    

I don't need a lesson in humility.  Humility has nothing to do with anything I've said.       

 

BB you had me at the free will part which really absolves God of responsibility--if we are free, then we are responsible for our acts....not God. 

You lose me at the "god sacrificing his son" bit which sounds crazy.  Isn't jesus God anyways?

[Necrosis]

There is nothing inconsistent about my opinion.  God doesn't force people to make choices.  That's one of the beauties of being a Christian:  the power of choice.  That's one of the marvelous things about God:  that He sacrificed His Son so I could choose whether to follow God.  It's awesome. 

I don't intend to keep repeating myself.  You are welcome to disagree with my opinion.  And I'm certainly not going to change my opinion because you think it's inconsistent. 

I tend to use a human perspective because I'm human.  But yes, I believe God cares about everyone.  Even you.    

I don't need a lesson in humility.  Humility has nothing to do with anything I've said.       

 

your whole position is contradictory.

your going against the bible, god plans every death and every birth it says so in the bible, apparently you know more about god then he does.

[Dos Equis]

BB you had me at the free will part which really absolves God of responsibility--if we are free, then we are responsible for our acts....not God. 

You lose me at the "god sacrificing his son" bit which sounds crazy.  Isn't jesus God anyways?

We are indeed responsible for our own acts.

That whole God sacrificing his Son thing is in the book of Mathew.  You should read it.  Great story.   

[Dos Equis]

your whole position is contradictory.

your going against the bible, god plans every death and every birth it says so in the bible, apparently you know more about god then he does.

What chapter and verse are you referring to? 

[Deicide]

We are indeed responsible for our own acts.

That whole God sacrificing his Son thing is in the book of Mathew.  You should read it. Great story.   

With emphasis on the word story...

[Dos Equis]

With emphasis on the word story...

Well duh.   

[Deicide]

Well duh.   

You could have said it is a great historical fact.

So did you parents beat Jesus into you or were you 'saved' because you were starving and some coconuts fell from the trees indicating that all the doctrines of Christianity are true?

[Dos Equis]

You could have said it is a great historical fact.

So did you parents beat Jesus into you or were you 'saved' because you were starving and some coconuts fell from the trees indicating that all the doctrines of Christianity are true?

"An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion."  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

[Necrosis]

What chapter and verse are you referring to? 

watch please

[Deicide]

"An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion."  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

It is not irrelevant. You believe in Biblical inerrancy. It was also a legitimate question.

[Dos Equis]

watch please

I watched the first two minutes.  This is as bad as those conspiracy theory clips.  Now I see where you get your information.  [chuckle]  You should just post their script.   

So you're referring to Psalms 139:16 where David says his life was planned.  Oh that does it for me.  Is that it? 

[Necrosis]

I watched the first two minutes.  This is as bad as those conspiracy theory clips.  Now I see where you get your information.  [chuckle]  You should just post their script.   

So you're referring to Psalms 139:16 where David says his life was planned.  Oh that does it for me.  Is that it? 

that and the fact that god is described as all knowing in the bible.

the fact that your sayhing he is unaware of crack babies contradicts this and the above passage. I get my info from my own mind for the most part with concerns to the bible, i dont even have to read it to know its ludacris. the sheer terrorism of it turns me off.