buying slin otc

[Loomis]

I hear humulin is over the counter in most places. Anybody have experience walking into a pharmacy and getting some no questions asked?

[gtbro1]

I hear humulin is over the counter in most places. Anybody have experience walking into a pharmacy and getting some no questions asked?

  I have heard that...I guess The reason is a diabetic will die without it so you can just go in and get it in some cases...I have seen it at a Meijer store in a fridge near the pharmacy area...I have picked it up for my mother without any problems ...I guess because who in their right mind  would use it if not diabetic( as far as the general public goes as not many know about bbers using it)

[Loomis]

That's cool. Nebody else? Anybody in NY area?

[Slintowin4424]

It doesn't matter where you are you can simply go in and tell them you want a bottle of humilin R I did it today but I would not suggest this for gains R is very unpredictable and its peak varys more then Humalog

[Captain Equipoise]

Humalog is the safest, onset is about 2 minutes, peak around 25 and is out within hour and a half...

if you're gonna go buy it OTC try not to sound like a dumbass and  have your facts straight.. ie. if they ask you how many units how many times a day you use, etc. read up.

[reppin203]

I know, I,d prefer humalog:( Anybody use/have success with Humalog-R tho?

[bigmikecox]

Humalog, Novolog, and the Novilin pen are all Rx.  Humilin R is available OTC. 

[Vet]

Humalog is the safest, onset is about 2 minutes, peak around 25 and is out within hour and a half...

Thats not true for Humalog.   http://www.aafp.org/afp/980115ap/noble.html

From the paper in the American Family Physician: 

Insulin lispro begins to exert its effects within 15 minutes of subcutaneous administration, and peak levels occur 30 to 90 minutes after administration. Duration of activity is less than five hours

Humalog has a very fast onset of action, but no insulin will begin to have an effect within two minutes of administration if its administered appropriately subcutaneously.  There has to be time for it to enter the blood stream. 


Also, my understanding is that NYC is in the process of mandating that the medical information of all diabetics in the metropolitan area is stored in a centralized data bank that all pharmacies and physicians will have access too.   This translates into the end of OTC sales of ALL diabetic supplies without being registered or a valid prescription from a doctor licensed in New York. 

My understanding is this system---if it overcomes the challenges to it as a violation of patient confidentiality rights and civil liberties is also being considered in other major metropolitan areas (Chicago, LA, Washington DC, Philadelphia).  Its similar to the states (like alabama) that are now requiring all diabetics to present a signed physician statement prior to being issued a drivers license.  The differences is that not everyone has access to the DMV's database. 

I fully expect Regular and NPH insulin to be prescription only within the next 3 years, faster if the next president does something in terms of national health care.  Its just a matter of time. 

[Vet]

That's cool. Nebody else? Anybody in NY area?

When I lived in NYC (two years ago), I tried to buy Humulin R and NPH OTC at a Duane Read in Manhattan.  The pharmacist would not sell it to me, even after I showed them my medic alert stating I am Insulin Dependant Diabetic.  It depends on where you are and the pharmacist.   

[Captain Equipoise]

Vet, directly from the site you posted:

Rapid acting: insulin lispro (Humalog)
onset,  0 to 15 minutes
peak,  30 to 90 minutes
udration, Less than 5 hours
 
Which is more or less what I posted, I said the onset was about 2 minutes, which for me it is.. peak around 25-30 minutes, after two hour the decline is so rapid that it's effect (insulin) is negligible.  Next time try harder

[Slintowin4424]

Captain is right it is a very fast onset many people eat then take it and finsih eating to  prevent hypoglycemia

[Vet]

Vet, directly from the site you posted:

Rapid acting: insulin lispro (Humalog)
onset,  0 to 15 minutes
peak,  30 to 90 minutes
udration, Less than 5 hours
 
Which is more or less what I posted, I said the onset was about 2 minutes, which for me it is.. peak around 25-30 minutes, after two hour the decline is so rapid that it's effect (insulin) is negligible.  Next time try harder

LOL.  Yes, I'm aware of what was on that website, thats why I posted it.  Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but to me there is a WORLD of difference between two and 15 minutes and between 25 and 90 minutes and between 2 hours and 5 hours.  The point I was trying to make is that I'm not aware of any medication, insulin or any other, that can have an onset of action within two minutes of a subcutaneous injection.   It takes a degree of time for the medication to enter the blood stream.  Humalog is fast, but its absolutely amazing to me if its that fast. 

And from my experience as a diabetic, who currently takes humalog.  I have to take it 15-25 minutes before I eat. 

[Vet]

Captain is right it is a very fast onset many people eat then take it and finsih eating to  prevent hypoglycemia

You know, I've heard of diabetics doing that, but I've yet to actually meet one and see them have to do that.   I know one woman who made claims like that, but when I questioned her, she was eating a salad and a piece of fish during the meal we talked about--basically a very low carbohydrate/very low glycemic index meal---her entire meal had less than 30 grams of carbs in it (I didn't count the romaine lettuce in the salad) and they came exclusively from fibrous vegetables. 

You absolutely have to consider what is being eaten during the meal and (in my experience at least) that is frequently not discussed when the onset of action of Humalog is discussed between diabetics and when those extreme rapid onset examples are given.

[Slintowin4424]

LOL.  Yes, I'm aware of what was on that website, thats why I posted it.  Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but to me there is a WORLD of difference between two and 15 minutes and between 25 and 90 minutes and between 2 hours and 5 hours.  The point I was trying to make is that I'm not aware of any medication, insulin or any other, that can have an onset of action within two minutes of a subcutaneous injection.   It takes a degree of time for the medication to enter the blood stream.  Humalog is fast, but its absolutely amazing to me if its that fast. 

And from my experience as a diabetic, who currently takes humalog.  I have to take it 15-25 minutes before I eat. 

Maybe you should check your slin or maybe your just confused the onset is 2 minutes after injection but the peak is 25-30 minutes later

[nder98]

I hear humulin is over the counter in most places. Anybody have experience walking into a pharmacy and getting some no questions asked?

Never had a problem with humilin R... I prefer humalog cus its more predictible but you can order that from canadian pharmacies.

[dzulboy]

walk into walmart and ask for navalin-r its half the price of huamlin i think iwas like 15 bucks last time i did it  but that was like 5 years ago slin isn;t my thing

[abc123]

Maybe you should check your slin or maybe your just confused the onset is 2 minutes after injection but the peak is 25-30 minutes later

Are you injecting IM or SQ?  That would explain the difference.  It depends on the method of injection.

[Captain Equipoise]

Are you injecting IM or SQ?  That would explain the difference.  It depends on the method of injection.

All insulin injections are subQ (with the rare occurence of direct IV injections in hospital)

there is no such thing as shooting insulin intraM.

[abc123]

I've only done SQ, but I have read where some use it IM to speed up onset and shorten duration.

[Vet]

I've only done SQ, but I have read where some use it IM to speed up onset and shorten duration.

Yes, insulin can be administered IM and there will be a more rapid onset with a shorter duration if its given that way.  Humulin R or vetsulin or Humulin NPH are frequently given to ketoacidotic diabetic cats and dogs (and I've administered insulin IM in birds--specifically eclectus, african greys, cockatiels, and pionus parrots---with one of my research projects on Lantis insulin use in diabetic birds) initially starting insulin.  This will give a manageable controlled decrease in blood glucose more rapidly than a sq injection (due to increased blood supply to the muscle and as a result more rapid absorption vs a SQ injection) in a hyperglycemic animal without the sudden drop you see with an IV injection. 

Insulin also was commonly administered IM to humans with some of the older brands of insulin--ie the old pork or pork/beef combinations.  I remember my father getting IM injections of insulin when he was in the hospital for ketoacidosis when I was a little kid ~30 years ago.  As far as I know, those protocols http://www.aafp.org/afp/20050501/1705_f1.html are still used, however with the newer ultrashort insulins absorption is rapid enough subcutaneously to make IM injections less necessary.   I'm aware of one research paper talking about young diabetic children having problems with ultrashort insulins administered with normal sized insulin needles because they were administering the insulin IM instead of into the SQ space.  I imagine this may be a possibility in an adult with a very low bodyfat percentage (something along the lines of <10%).  All the insulin has to do is be depositied past the fascial layer of the muscle and it'll be absorbed more rapidly than if its given SQ.

The other thing that has to be considered with a ketoacidotic diabetic is the osmolality of the blood.  If you drop the blood glucose too fast (with an IM or IV overdose of insulin) you can actually cause problems with the brain due to the adjustments the body has made with the increased osmolality due to the high blood sugars.

[muscle19]

if I take 5ius before workout and take 50-60g carbs prior to injecting, I can take protein with it too right? Do I need to consume carbs after I inject if I already consumed 50g before?

[Vet]

if I take 5ius before workout and take 50-60g carbs prior to injecting, I can take protein with it too right? Do I need to consume carbs after I inject if I already consumed 50g before?

My advice is don't take exogenous insulin unless you are diabetic.  Learn to manipulate your endogenous insulin and you will be better off.  You are playing with fire taking insulin from an outside source unless you have a medical need for it. 

[Overload]

Learn to manipulate your endogenous insulin and you will be better off.   

Exactly...

most people have no idea how to do that though...

[Slintowin4424]

Are you injecting IM or SQ?  That would explain the difference.  It depends on the method of injection.

Wow your pretty confused bro is your blood sugar low

[Loomis]

Learn to manipulate your endogenous insulin and you will be better off. 

I've experamented with that. I'll take in a bunch of fast acting carbs, then whey protein when I feel my insulin spiking. Then I'll eat a good meal a while later. I always follow this protocol post-workout.