How to Swift Boat John McCain's Candidacy

[Dos Equis]

I'm sure in exchange for the special treatment for years, he told the we were wearing green   COME ON

So now it's "special treatment for years" and not medical treatment for his injuries?   

Sounds like you have no idea what, if anything, he gave them.  Wake me when this becomes a legitimate story. 

[Hugo Chavez]

So now it's "special treatment for years" and not medical treatment for his injuries?   

Sounds like you have no idea what, if anything, he gave them.  Wake me when this becomes a legitimate story. 

yea, it was both!  after his hospital stay, he got a private 10 X 10 cell.  No the conditions were not nice, but probably way nicer than others who didn't talk were alloted.  Why would they live up to their end if he didn't give his end?  They were just being nice? lol...

[Hugo Chavez]

There's another huge problem here...  If there is serious dirt in his interrogation records which I think are still in foreign hands, the president could be seriously manipulated. 

[Hugo Chavez]

completely true. look it up on google.


NT

I thought it was 5?

[240 is Back]

IMO, anything a guy reveals while getting beaten/tortured/fear of his life... you can't hold that against him.

Plus his dad was a big admiral, so that might be why he got some of the better treatment - it's certainly why they offered to release him early (which he didn't accept).

kerry was a good soldier, and mccain was a good soldier.  They both did what they thought was right.  There will be military folks speaking out on iraq - will they be called traitors, 40 years from now, when one of them runs for pres (and it'll happen lol)?  Today, we all know the war is about oil.  in 40 years, with history whitewashed and new young punks thinking it was about squeaky clean reasons, will soldiers who were critical today be called names?  Probably...

[Dos Equis]

yea, it was both!  after his hospital stay, he got a private 10 X 10 cell.  No the conditions were not nice, but probably way nicer than others who didn't talk were alloted.  Why would they live up to their end if he didn't give his end?  They were just being nice? lol...

The conditions were not nice?  No kidding.  lol.  They realized they had a hot potato when they discovered his father was an admiral.  That's why they offered to let him go and he stayed behind with his comrades.

Not a story.  Sorry.  Next red herring?  

[24KT]

{YAWN}

See: "Load Up On Guns and Bring Your Friends"

[Hugo Chavez]

The conditions were not nice?  No kidding.  lol.  They realized they had a hot potato when they discovered his father was an admiral.  That's why they offered to let him go and he stayed behind with his comrades.

Not a story.  Sorry.  Next red herring?  

You're the one with the red herring, He saved his ass by telling them he would give them military information.  Do you suppose others sat and suffered with their injuries without hospital treatment because they wouldn't talk?  yup.

[Dos Equis]

You're the one with the red herring, He saved his ass by telling them he would give them military information.  Do you suppose others sat and suffered with their injuries without hospital treatment because they wouldn't talk?  yup.

I don't suppose anything, because I have no idea what, if anything, he gave up.  Sounds like you don't either.   

[Decker]

Wrong.  I was fine with Kerry's military service until two things happened:  (1) I watched the Stolen Honor documentary, which showed how he threw his fellow soldiers under the bus during the war and included interviews of POWs and their wives; and (2) he tried to use his military service to support his presidential candidacy (e.g., his salute and "reporting for duty" comments at the convention).  I saw the documentary after the convention, but it just upset me to no end that he engaged in such despicable conduct and then tried to run in part on his military record.     

Stolen Honor ranks with the Clinton Chronicles re ethical journalism.

Kerry's anti-war efforts helped end the war and spare more americans from becoming POWs.

You do realize that Stolen Honor intersects with the Swift Boaters don't you?

You do realize that the Swift Boaters have been completely debunked and shown for the politically motivated frauds that they were?

[Dos Equis]

Stolen Honor ranks with the Clinton Chronicles re ethical journalism.

Kerry's anti-war efforts helped end the war and spare more americans from becoming POWs.

You do realize that Stolen Honor intersects with the Swift Boaters don't you?

You do realize that the Swift Boaters have been completely debunked and shown for the politically motivated frauds that they were?

Have you watched Stolen Honor? 

[Decker]

Have you watched Stolen Honor? 

My wife doesn't let me bring propaganda into the house.

But I have read about it quite a bit b/c I still can't believe people fall for that kind of garbage.

Here's a point by point debunking of "Stolen Honor".
http://mediamatters.org/items/200410230001

Too bad crap like "Stolen Honor" appeals to a certain segment of our population.  But then again, propaganda works.

[War-Horse]

The "Amero" is coming.  We'll all be fine, quit your bitching.

[Decker]

hahahaha

that's good.

[Dos Equis]

My wife doesn't let me bring propaganda into the house.

But I have read about it quite a bit b/c I still can't believe people fall for that kind of garbage.

Here's a point by point debunking of "Stolen Honor".
http://mediamatters.org/items/200410230001

Too bad crap like "Stolen Honor" appeals to a certain segment of our population.  But then again, propaganda works.

As I suspected.  You haven't watched it, but you can tell me all about it.  Riiiiight. 

I guess it's possible I didn't actually see Kerry making his treacherous comments on the documentary, that the former POWs and their wives weren't actually talking about the impact of his comments on the documentary (maybe they were actors?), and that I didn't really form my opinion based on Kerry's own words and actions.

I really didn't pay attention to this until I stumbled across the Stolen Honor documentary on TV one day and watched it.  Just incredible.  What he did is indefensible.  The fact he tried to run in part on his military record after stabbing his fellow soldiers in the back is a crime.  I have zero respect for the man.     

[Decker]

As I suspected.  You haven't watched it, but you can tell me all about it.  Riiiiight. 

I guess it's possible I didn't actually see Kerry making his treacherous comments on the documentary, that the former POWs and their wives weren't actually talking about the impact of his comments on the documentary (maybe they were actors?), and that I didn't really form my opinion based on Kerry's own words and actions.

I really didn't pay attention to this until I stumbled across the Stolen Honor documentary on TV one day and watched it.  Just incredible.  What he did is indefensible.  The fact he tried to run in part on his military record after stabbing his fellow soldiers in the back is a crime.  I have zero respect for the man.     

I can read excerpted quotes from the hitpiece.  I can make a decision based on that. 

Kerry helped stop the war.

I'm sorry you believed what you saw: manufactured or out of context comments on a man who should have been president.

[Dos Equis]

I can read excerpted quotes from the hitpiece.  I can make a decision based on that. 

Kerry helped stop the war.

I'm sorry you believed what you saw: manufactured or out of context comments on a man who should have been president.

Well yeah, I tend to believe what I see and hear.    So what are you saying, that Kerry wasn't really talking?  Body double?  Lip sync?  What?     

I am glad he didn't make it to the White House.  Didn't deserve to be Commander in Chief.       

[Decker]

Well yeah, I tend to believe what I see and hear.    So what are you saying, that Kerry wasn't really talking?  Body double?  Lip sync?  What?     

....       

http://mediamatters.org/items/200410230001?f=s_search

Look at that whole page.

In his 1971 testimony before the Senate foreign relations committee, Kerry was simply relating the personal experiences of other Vietnam veterans who came home and testified to their personal experiences at the Winter Soldier Investigation hearing in Detroit earlier that year, which was organized by Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW). Kerry, who testified in his capacity as spokesman for VVAW, focused blame on the leaders at that time -- not the soldiers -- for the atrocities they claimed to have committed or witnessed.

[Decker]

"Just as John McCain has collaborated with the Vietnamese enemy, he has been collaborating with the leaders of the Mexican Reconquista movement for some time. Among other outrages, he was the keynote speaker at the 2004 annual conference of the National Council of La Raza. He told the racist crowd: “It is in our national interest to bring the 8 to 12 million undocumented immigrants out of the shadows and allow them an opportunity to become citizens of this great nation.” "

"After the massive illegal alien protests last year, McCain made the following statement: “If such demonstrations continue, I think we will have a bill for the President to sign soon. The more debate, the more demonstrations, the more likely we will prevail.”"
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_wasmccainbrainswashed.htm

Is John McCain a Manchurian candidate?  It's beginning to look more and more like that!

"Despite John McCain’s years of painful torture at the hands of the NVA, he has been Hanoi’s strongest advocate in the U.S. Senate. For years, he pushed for the normalization of relations with communist Vietnam, even though that country has never fully cooperated on the issue of American POW’s."

[Dos Equis]

http://mediamatters.org/items/200410230001?f=s_search

Look at that whole page.

In his 1971 testimony before the Senate foreign relations committee, Kerry was simply relating the personal experiences of other Vietnam veterans who came home and testified to their personal experiences at the Winter Soldier Investigation hearing in Detroit earlier that year, which was organized by Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW). Kerry, who testified in his capacity as spokesman for VVAW, focused blame on the leaders at that time -- not the soldiers -- for the atrocities they claimed to have committed or witnessed.

O.K.  I read the first part of the page.  That means I've gone a step further than you, because you haven't watched any of the documentary.  My opinion is the same.  What the heck is he doing saying this crap while we have POWs in an ongoing war??

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

Brilliant. 

[MidniteRambo]

Come on HH, I clearly entitled this bit, "How to Swift Boat McCain...".

It's just a gentle reminder of the things that may come down the pike this political season.

Hell, if the Swift Boaters could turn a war hero like Kerry into a murderous traitor, whose to say it can't happen again.

I didn't put this together to prove the truth of the stuff asserted about McCain because I don't believe it myself.

Your reaction was much like my own when the real Swift Boaters pretty much called Candidate Kerry a murderous, cowardly, underserving hero poseur and the Republican machine ate it up.

I remember that all the attendees at the Republican Convention of 2004 wore band-aids with little purple hearts on them.

So the Swift Boat message was taken to heart.

The difference is, the Swift Boaters, were factually accurate.  Their claims were well-documented and the Swift Boaters were attached for their motives rather than on the factual accuracy of their assertions.  And by the way, Kerry admitted publicly to war crimes on a talk show.

[Hedgehog]

Swift boating?

Who needs that?

All you gotta do is listen to McCain, and you will realise how old he is.

As long as he doesn't open his mouth he's doing fine.

But when he opens the yapper, he just reeks old man.

And this man beaty Rudy and Mitt?

LMFAO.

Someone really wants Barrack to win. (It's a Jew conspiracy )

[Decker]

O.K.  I read the first part of the page.  That means I've gone a step further than you, because you haven't watched any of the documentary.  My opinion is the same.  What the heck is he doing saying this crap while we have POWs in an ongoing war??

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

Brilliant. 

Granted it was hearsay but so what.  It is arguable that if Kerry, as a Viet Nam Vet turned anti-war leader, did not make a big stink about this stuff, the war may have lasted longer than it had. 

You question the man's act of conscience.

[Decker]

The difference is, the Swift Boaters, were factually accurate.  Their claims were well-documented and the Swift Boaters were attached for their motives rather than on the factual accuracy of their assertions.  And by the way, Kerry admitted publicly to war crimes on a talk show.

None of what you claim is true about the Swift Boaters:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/veteran_retracts_criticism_of_kerry/
Veteran retracts criticism of Kerry

Nightline Falsifies Swift Boat Veterans for 'Truth'
http://www.undergroundclips.com/undergroundclips/2004/10/nightline_falsi.html

The only truth about the Swift Boaters was you could always tell when they were lying about Kerry's war record...their lips were moving.

[Benny B]

the dems need to put all McCain's dirty history out in ads for the American public to see

what was fair for the repubes in '04 is fair for the dems in '08