Anti Inflamitories

[SpeedDemon]

Is there any down side to regularly taking anti inflammatories like Ibuprofen over a long period of time besides stomach pain??

[candidizzle]

yes and no

studies support both sides

[SpeedDemon]

I always take academic studies with a grain of salt and put them against the real world experience of the members of this board.

what works in the class room and what works in the weight room are not always the same.

The same is true in reverse as well, I don't take any body on here's advice as gospel until I've done my own research

[candidizzle]

I always take academic studies with a grain of salt and put them against the real world experience of the members of this board.

what works in the class room and what works in the weight room are not always the same.

The same is true in reverse as well, I don't take any body on here's advice as gospel until I've done my own research

okay well tom pricne said he was addicted to advil (ibuprofen) when he was training... i would assum that it in no way hinders muscle growth or conditoning sine tom was a VERY large man and cam in great condiition

[SpeedDemon]

Ok, Cause i've read several article that say it decreases the adaptation to stress response and hinders muscle growth and strength development but I've also read that that is a load of crap.

I figure if I'm not in pain I can train harder and that will benefit me more than the anti inflammatories would hold me back

[rccs]

Is there any down side to regularly taking anti inflammatories like Ibuprofen over a long period of time besides stomach pain??

I read a study saying that soccer players were having heart problems for taking too much ibuprofen...

[Princess L]

Fish oil has anti inflammatory properties 

[Faust]

I wouldn't take them for long periods for health reasons anyway.

Maybe you should look for other alternatives: glucosamine, fish oil, dropping certain excercises, going with lighter weights but more sets, ...

okay well tom pricne said he was addicted to advil (ibuprofen) when he was training... i would assum that it in no way hinders muscle growth or conditoning sine tom was a VERY large man and cam in great condiition

1 case does not prove anything. And who knows, maybe he would have been Mr. O without the Advil.

[webcake]

Never take any form of anti inflamitory (tabs, cream etc) for DOMS.

[Necrosis]

any anti inflammatories can hinder muscle growth, you need muscular inflammation PWO in order for growth to occur. Its the reasoning behind the supplement X factor which is Arachidonic acid which increases inflammation. A recent study was just published which showed that it increased muscle growth, but the body of evidence suggests muscle inflammation is needed.

candidate, tom was on a boat load of drugs so i would imagine he was an atypical case if there ever was one.

[240 is Back]

Studies on both sides, but I'd guess the lack of muscular inflammation postworkout would hurt gains, as umokepole mentioned.

[nder98]

okay well tom pricne said he was addicted to advil (ibuprofen) when he was training... i would assum that it in no way hinders muscle growth or conditoning sine tom was a VERY large man and cam in great condiition

Unfortunatley he was taking a little more than just "Advil" along with prescription pain medication and God knows what else.  Yes he was large man but he got that size by taking enourmous amounts of gear also and paid the ultimate price with his kidneys. BTW: I was told by my doctor that prescription pain meds, does in fact hinder muscle growth. Not sure about Advil or tylanol though..

[nder98]

Fish oil has anti inflammatory properties 

This is very true, I take them everyday for the past 4 months and all joint pain i EVER had in my life is GONE!

[loco]

Ibuprofen inhibits muscle gains

by Dr. Paul Cribb Ph.D. CSCS.
AST Director of Research

Cyclooxygenase (COX) activity and its downstream prostaglandins are involved in the muscle growth response to weight training. Prostaglandins are potent modulators of pain and inflammation in muscle tissue. A recent study has shown that the anti-inflammatory drug Ibuprofen inhibits COX activity and the muscle growth response to overload.

I reported this phenomenon in a previous article. However, this new study directly assessed muscle growth in response to overload within and without the effects of Ibuprofen. It also provided a clear mechanistic explanation for the impaired growth response from this drug.

Therefore, although drugs such as Ibuprofen may help reduce pain and inflammation after injury, it seems clear that they also interfere with skeletal muscle adaptations to resistance exercise. If you’re training hard to build muscle but require relief of chronic joint pain, try daily supplementation with ProFlex 750. Use Ibuprofen sparingly.

Source: Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise 38(5); 840-846, 2006.
http://www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/rr_full_text.asp?rrID=523

[Necrosis]

Ibuprofen inhibits muscle gains

by Dr. Paul Cribb Ph.D. CSCS.
AST Director of Research

Cyclooxygenase (COX) activity and its downstream prostaglandins are involved in the muscle growth response to weight training. Prostaglandins are potent modulators of pain and inflammation in muscle tissue. A recent study has shown that the anti-inflammatory drug Ibuprofen inhibits COX activity and the muscle growth response to overload.

I reported this phenomenon in a previous article. However, this new study directly assessed muscle growth in response to overload within and without the effects of Ibuprofen. It also provided a clear mechanistic explanation for the impaired growth response from this drug.

Therefore, although drugs such as Ibuprofen may help reduce pain and inflammation after injury, it seems clear that they also interfere with skeletal muscle adaptations to resistance exercise. If you’re training hard to build muscle but require relief of chronic joint pain, try daily supplementation with ProFlex 750. Use Ibuprofen sparingly.

Source: Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise 38(5); 840-846, 2006.
http://www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/rr_full_text.asp?rrID=523

just to play devils advocate , pardon the pun loco

http://www.physorg.com/news126711822.html

Ibuprofen or acetaminophen in long-term resistance training increases muscle mass/strength
Taking daily recommended dosages of ibuprofen and acetaminophen caused a substantially greater increase over placebo in the amount of quadriceps muscle mass and muscle strength gained during three months of regular weight lifting, in a study by physiologists at the Human Performance Laboratory, Ball State University.

my suggestion would be to avoid nsaids etc around workout time.

[loco]

just to play devils advocate , pardon the pun loco

     

http://www.physorg.com/news126711822.html

Ibuprofen or acetaminophen in long-term resistance training increases muscle mass/strength
Taking daily recommended dosages of ibuprofen and acetaminophen caused a substantially greater increase over placebo in the amount of quadriceps muscle mass and muscle strength gained during three months of regular weight lifting, in a study by physiologists at the Human Performance Laboratory, Ball State University.

my suggestion would be to avoid nsaids etc around workout time.

Hey smoke!  I was actually hoping you would read this and discuss.  I was interested in your opinion about the study that AST's Dr. Paul Cribb mentioned.

But it seems even people at AST will play devils advocate on this.  About five years before Dr. Paul Cribb posted that article on the AST website, AST's CEO, Paul Delia wrote:

"Cortsol is a very catabolic hormone released mainly to fight inflammation when injuries occur. The best time to address the cortisol issue is not after the fact (after training), but before.

Here's a little know trick that will do wonders for helping reduce cortisol release as a response to weight training. Take an anti-inflammatory BEFORE you train. About 45 minutes before will work fine. Not after you train, but before. Aspirin (Excedren), ibuprofen (Advil), or naproxen (Aleve) all will work for this purpose. I recommend rotating 400 milligrams ibuprofen with 325 milligrams aspirin - one day use ibuprofen and the next day aspirin. I would also add 1000 milligrams of vitamin C and 400IU of vitamin E at this time.

This supplement strategy will help drastically reduce training induced inflammation and in turn reduce cortisol release. This is a very effective and very inexpensive technique that works effectively to reduce training related muscle catabolism."
http://www.ast-ss.com/dev/qa_search/full_text.asp?ID=721

It seems like a contradiction, but it's probably because we don't yet understand enough about this and more research is needed.

Maybe the trick is in the timing, taking an anti-inflammatory 45 minutes before you train increases muscle mass/strength, while taking it after you train inhibits muscle gains?

[Necrosis]

i would avoid his suggestion as continuous use of ibuprofen etc will have toxic effects on the liver.

he is right in that reducing cortisol during, post workout etc is a negative thing, but there are better safer strategies imo.

for example, drinking glucose will cause a release of insulin which blunts cortisol release from the adrenal cortex. Another supplemental approach is phosphotidlyserine which reduces cortisol and cissus quadrangularis.

his vitamin c suggestion is somewhat a catch 22 as vitamin c does reduce cortisol but it also reduces itself via alternative mechanisms, this is something i would avoid during workouts also.

the strategy would probably work for muscle growth as per the article i posted, benzodiazepines are another class of drugs that would blunt cortisol, remeron as, trazodone etc... there are many but id generally avoid them.

if you have specific questions fire away

[loco]

i would avoid his suggestion as continuous use of ibuprofen etc will have toxic effects on the liver.

he is right in that reducing cortisol during, post workout etc is a negative thing, but there are better safer strategies imo.

for example, drinking glucose will cause a release of insulin which blunts cortisol release from the adrenal cortex. Another supplemental approach is phosphotidlyserine which reduces cortisol and cissus quadrangularis.

his vitamin c suggestion is somewhat a catch 22 as vitamin c does reduce cortisol but it also reduces itself via alternative mechanisms, this is something i would avoid during workouts also.

the strategy would probably work for muscle growth as per the article i posted, benzodiazepines are another class of drugs that would blunt cortisol, remeron as, trazodone etc... there are many but id generally avoid them.

if you have specific questions fire away

Great info!  Thanks smoke!

[candidizzle]

 so in order to grow the best i could take ibuprofen before my workouts and drink sugar during my workout ??

( liver problems aside)

[Necrosis]

so in order to grow the best i could take ibuprofen before my workouts and drink sugar during my workout ??

( liver problems aside)

im not convinced that ibuprofen will help at all to be honest, its anti cortisol effects are not top of the line or anything and its negative effect on inflammation may lead to slower muscular adaptation, read less mass.

drink glucose during training and look into phosphotidylserine. Vitamin c reduces inflammation as i tried to say above but i was in a rush, so avoid that also. Liver toxicity has a host of problems and can lead to depression among other things. Training should allow your cortisol system to adapt as well, so i would allow it to happen somewhat.

[candidizzle]

 okay...so when should i avoid vitamin c exactly ? i have been taking it post workout ! lol...   1 gram actually...


usmokepole i put my 2 hours prior to working out asnd 2 hour post workout in your hands bro... if youd like t, id love for you to lay out what would be the "perfect" protocol

[Rimbaud]

okay...so when should i avoid vitamin c exactly ? i have been taking it post workout ! lol...   1 gram actually...


usmokepole i put my 2 hours prior to working out asnd 2 hour post workout in your hands bro... if youd like t, id love for you to lay out what would be the "perfect" protocol

All studies aside candi. Is what you're doing working for you? If so then why change it?

[Rimbaud]

Fish oil has anti inflammatory properties 

Amen.

[Necrosis]

okay...so when should i avoid vitamin c exactly ? i have been taking it post workout ! lol...   1 gram actually...


usmokepole i put my 2 hours prior to working out asnd 2 hour post workout in your hands bro... if youd like t, id love for you to lay out what would be the "perfect" protocol

ya ill do you up somethign when im working at the supp store tom , pretty much 8 hours of unadulterated internet.

[candidizzle]

ya ill do you up somethign when im working at the supp store tom , pretty much 8 hours of unadulterated internet.

awesome !  dude im pumped.

if you culd how about one for fat loss and one for muscle gain..  !

also dude i am doing a fat loss diet right now i devised i think you would find cool.. i p.m. it to tyou