Author Topic: are close grip bench presses overrated?  (Read 16226 times)

First Blood

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are close grip bench presses overrated?
« on: November 02, 2008, 04:33:23 PM »
im thinking that close grip bench presses are overrated when it comes to building the triceps...i have gotten alot better results using different kind of extensions. specially overhead cable extensions.

do you guys think cgbp is better for powerlifters and bodybuilders should just stick to extensions, pushdowns, machine dips etc?


El_Pajero

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Re: are close grip bench presses overrated?
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2008, 04:34:35 PM »
hahahahahahahahahahahaha haha

First Blood

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Re: are close grip bench presses overrated?
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2008, 04:36:04 PM »
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

whats so funny?

dont have an own opinion?

leonp1981

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Re: are close grip bench presses overrated?
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2008, 04:36:23 PM »
I've used them for years, and have always rated them.  I know other people hate them though.

First Blood

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Re: are close grip bench presses overrated?
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2008, 04:37:00 PM »
I've used them for years, and have always rated them.  I know other people hate them though.

rated them? you mean they have worked well for you?

First Blood

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Re: are close grip bench presses overrated?
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2008, 04:38:10 PM »
and couldnt you do lockouts instead of cgbp if you wanna improve the bench press ? and isnt that more interesting for powerlifters?

QuakerOats

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Re: are close grip bench presses overrated?
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2008, 04:39:25 PM »
they're a great movement that i always use but you're right extension movements are better at building the whole triceps, the stretch is the key, Pumpster has a lot of great ideas on different extension movements if one is too hard on your elbows, i can't do overhead extensions because they ALWAYS give me elbow pain but lying extensions never do so i do those, i always lower the weight behind my head.

leonp1981

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Re: are close grip bench presses overrated?
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2008, 04:40:34 PM »
and couldnt you do lockouts instead of cgbp if you wanna improve the bench press ? and isnt that more interesting for powerlifters?

Probably yeah, but I've always done them for triceps.  A lot of people say they hurt their wrists or elbows, but I've never experienced that.  I think they are a good compound movement for the whole triceps.

First Blood

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Re: are close grip bench presses overrated?
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2008, 04:43:03 PM »
they're a great movement that i always use but you're right extension movements are better at building the whole triceps, the stretch is the key.

to be honest i dont feel much when im doin cgbp...mostly my shoulders...unless i use very light weights...

i read that serge nubret thought you should just use isolation movements like extensions, pushdowns etc...


First Blood

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Re: are close grip bench presses overrated?
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2008, 04:45:30 PM »
they're a great movement that i always use but you're right extension movements are better at building the whole triceps, the stretch is the key, Pumpster has a lot of great ideas on different extension movements if one is too hard on your elbows, i can't do overhead extensions because they ALWAYS give me elbow pain but lying extensions never do so i do those, i always lower the weight behind my head.

yeah thats the main problem i have heard..when it comes to extensions..elbow pain.

but i heard pumpster and slaveboy1980 say that you should do pushdowns before you do the extensions and use high reps..

im thinking about doing this triceps routine

pushdowns high reps 10-20 reps
extensions (in cable behing the neck) 8-12 reps
machine dips or one arm pushdowns 8-12 reps

QuakerOats

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Re: are close grip bench presses overrated?
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2008, 04:48:28 PM »
to be honest i dont feel much when im doin cgbp...mostly my shoulders...unless i use very light weights...

i read that serge nubret thought you should just use isolation movements like extensions, pushdowns etc...


in a way Serge is right, some guys don't feel much on the big basic movements for arms like CGBP, BB curls, Dips, etc. but get great results with isolation movements, i remember Dave Palumbo saying something like that in MD a few years ago, he suggested doing more cable movements for arms to feel the muscles, what i would suggest is not using TOO CLOSE a grip but going just inside shoulder width and keep your elbow pointed towars your feet, keep the light at first like maybe 135 pounds just to get the feel of them.

QuakerOats

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Re: are close grip bench presses overrated?
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2008, 04:50:22 PM »
yeah thats the main problem i have heard..when it comes to extensions..elbow pain.

but i heard pumpster and slaveboy1980 say that you should do pushdowns before you do the extensions and use high reps..

im thinking about doing this triceps routine

pushdowns high reps 10-20 reps
extensions (in cable behing the neck) 8-12 reps
machine dips or one arm pushdowns 8-12 reps
that's a good routine, like i said Pump has a lot of great advice that goes contrary to the stupid "go heavy or go home" bullshit you hear so much, light pushdowns are a great way to get your elbows warmed up, i stay away from OVERHEAD extensions because they tear my elbows up no matter what weight i use.

First Blood

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Re: are close grip bench presses overrated?
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2008, 04:50:38 PM »
in a way Serge is right, some guys don't feel much on the big basic movements for arms like CGBP, BB curls, Dips, etc. but get great results with isolation movements, i remember Dave Palumbo saying something like that in MD a few years ago, he suggested doing more cable movements for arms to feel the muscles, what i would suggest is not using TOO CLOSE a grip but going just inside shoulder width and keep your elbow pointed towars your feet, keep the light at first like maybe 135 pounds just to get the feel of them.

thanks man..im gonna have to think about this. not 100% sure which method im gonna use...


First Blood

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Re: are close grip bench presses overrated?
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2008, 04:55:14 PM »
that's a good routine, like i said Pump has a lot of great advice that goes contrary to the stupid "go heavy or go home" bullshit you hear so much, light pushdowns are a great way to get your elbows warmed up, i stay away from OVERHEAD extensions because they tear my elbows up no matter what weight i use.

have you tried doing them with cables (standing and overhead)...its weird i dont feel that movement at all in my elbows...but when i do the same exercise with an ez- bar my elbows hurt too

i have tried the lying tricep extensions..but never really felt it in my triceps...weird

heaviest i have used on tricep extensions with ez bar is 47kg (like 105 lbs i think)

for me it seems like cables and machine work is best when it comes to triceps...

leonp1981

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Re: are close grip bench presses overrated?
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2008, 04:55:28 PM »
that's a good routine, like i said Pump has a lot of great advice that goes contrary to the stupid "go heavy or go home" bullshit you hear so much, light pushdowns are a great way to get your elbows warmed up, i stay away from OVERHEAD extensions because they tear my elbows up no matter what weight i use.

It's strange how different people get different effects, I've always been fine doing overhead extensions, but get a lot of discomfort from lying extensions. 

QuakerOats

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Re: are close grip bench presses overrated?
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2008, 04:55:47 PM »
thanks man..im gonna have to think about this. not 100% sure which method im gonna use...


if your having trouble with them either don't do them at all or do them as the very last movement and go light on them, maybe 135 for a few sets of 15-20 just to get them in as a last movement or maybe even do them on the Smith machine.

tbombz

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Re: are close grip bench presses overrated?
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2008, 04:56:32 PM »
you really have to have a great mind to muscle connection in order to do close grip bench press correctly.

quaker makes great points. isloating biceps and triceps have always wroked best for me. dips and close grip bench aree great mass builders if you can ISOLATE while doing them. its tough.  for dips, the only way i can get the tri's isloated is by doing them on two benches, one with my legs propper up and one behind my back with my hands behind me, plates loaded on my lap.


one of my favorite exercises for triceps is straight bar pushdowns.

check out levrone at  1:22


QuakerOats

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Re: are close grip bench presses overrated?
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2008, 04:57:39 PM »
It's strange how different people get different effects, I've always been fine doing overhead extensions, but get a lot of discomfort from lying extensions. 
yeah it's crazy, i used to do some pretty heavy dumbbell extensions when i was in my mid 20's and they never gave me problems but as the years progressed they began giving me problems, now at 36 i can't touch them.

First Blood

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Re: are close grip bench presses overrated?
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2008, 04:59:14 PM »
if your having trouble with them either don't do them at all or do them as the very last movement and go light on them, maybe 135 for a few sets of 15-20 just to get them in as a last movement or maybe even do them on the Smith machine.

cool, i think this is a really interesting discussion....compound method vs isolation method. i been reading lots of articles and stuff last few weeks to learn more about bodybuilding....and i have..but made me confused too lol

yeah maybe ill do them in a smith machine last (for hight reps)..just so i dont feel like i left em out hehe

tbombz

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Re: are close grip bench presses overrated?
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2008, 04:59:26 PM »
yeah it's crazy, i used to do some pretty heavy dumbbell extensions when i was in my mid 20's and they never gave me problems but as the years progressed they began giving me problems, now at 36 i can't touch them.
i do them about every other workout.. my triceps are stronger than my grip strength in that particular movement so i cant really hi failure unless i go high reps...

QuakerOats

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Re: are close grip bench presses overrated?
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2008, 05:01:46 PM »
i do them about every other workout.. my triceps are stronger than my grip strength in that particular movement so i cant really hi failure unless i go high reps...
me and a friend of mine used to go stupid heavy on those things and i think now i'm paying the price for that foolishness, no need to go crazy on weight for arm movements, your triceps get a lot of work on heavy benches, inclines and shoulder presses anyway.

First Blood

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Re: are close grip bench presses overrated?
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2008, 05:02:02 PM »
you really have to have a great mind to muscle connection in order to do close grip bench press correctly.

quaker makes great points. isloating biceps and triceps have always wroked best for me. dips and close grip bench aree great mass builders if you can ISOLATE while doing them. its tough.  for dips, the only way i can get the tri's isloated is by doing them on two benches, one with my legs propper up and one behind my back with my hands behind me, plates loaded on my lap.


one of my favorite exercises for triceps is straight bar pushdowns.

check out levrone at  1:22



personally i dont like doing them with a straight bar...feels weird..and i feel it in my elbows lol...


leonp1981

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Re: are close grip bench presses overrated?
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2008, 05:02:08 PM »
cool, i think this is a really interesting discussion....compound method vs isolation method. i been reading lots of articles and stuff last few weeks to learn more about bodybuilding....and it has..but made me confused too lol

yeah maybe ill do them in a smith machine last (for hight reps)..just so i dont feel like i left em out hehe

Not too sure about doing them in a smith machine, cos your natural groove might need to bring the bar away from the vertical plane.  You'd be better off doing them with a very light weight on a bench to see how your form is, before deciding whether to keep doing them.

pumpster

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Re: are close grip bench presses overrated?
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2008, 05:02:28 PM »
Some people love CGBP, for that area of tris i like dip machine, wide-elbow pushdowns, etc. Extensions are not primarily gonna hit the same areas.

Before you give up on any exercise because it doesn't work or hurts, try slight variations in grip, grip width, ROM, angle and keep the reps moderate to high while going as heavy as possible. Worth trying decline CG with an E-Z curl bar or Smith Machine if it's practical before giving up on them. Also vary the grip width, and also try either keeping the elbows in, elbows out or not doing full ROM-lower the bar only part of the way down, stop well before hitting chest. Smith Machine can sometimes be better on some exercises, like CG. Trial and error, see if there's some version that works and doesn't hurt. Go as heavy as possible while keeping the reps moderate or high, rests of a minute or less.

Same thing with any exercise that either hurts or isn't felt in the muscle, try slight variations in grip, angle, etc. it's surprising the difference small changes can make in effect and in injury avoidance. That thing about going too heavy when younger's very typical, Mel Anthony was talking about that too in a recent mag article, we all regret some of those things we didn't know then. We can learn how to be more efficient and easier on the body later with more experience. ;)

First Blood

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Re: are close grip bench presses overrated?
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2008, 05:03:20 PM »
me and a friend of mine used to go stupid heavy on those things and i think now i'm paying the price for that foolishness, no need to go crazy on weight for arm movements, your triceps get a lot of work on heavy benches, inclines and shoulder presses anyway.

do you think it would be smart to work triceps with fast pace...moderate weight (8+ reps)...isolation movements...just to save the elbows?