Author Topic: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?  (Read 58090 times)

MCWAY

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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2008, 05:02:52 AM »
McWay,


The Bible does give Jesus birthdate as 25th December... just indirectly.

The chapter and verse that make this claim would be………


The bright star that leads the three kings to Jesus is Sirius (the Dog Star) which is the brightest star in the night sky. The sun rises further and further along the horizon as the days get shorter leading up to the mid-winter solstice (December 21st), then suddenly the sun turns back and begins to gain strength (longer days).

You don't read very well, at times. The guys that find Jesus are either WISE MEN or shepherds, who find Jesus about two years apart from each other. And once again, where is the chapter and verse that supposedly indirectly states that Jesus was born December 25th?


The first day when a solar measurement will show this (one degree of reversal) is the 25th of December when the sun rises below Sirius at a point on the horizon indicated by the line of three stars known as the "Three Kings" or "Three Wise Men".

You just have to know the code to the allegory: Jesus is the sun, the story is an astrological allegory.

Seriously, isn't it suspicious that the Jebus story includes ALL these astrological symbols? In the correct order?

A virgin birth marked by a bright star and attended by "three wise men"? Come on guys...


The Luke

AHHH!!!! Once again, you keep wailing about this "allegeory" or "mystery", without providing the specifics. And, what you repeatedly forget is that the Gospels DO NOT state that there were exactly "three kings". The term is "wise men" (magi) and there is NO INDICATION from Scripture that there exactly three of them.

Either provide the specifics, or cease with this foolishness.

OOPS!! I almost forgot. I must finish taking apart that list of yours. Let's see:

"- loses a shoe/foot/leg (Jebus has his feet washed)" - Are you smoking that sticky-icky? Getting your feet washed equals losing a leg or foot  ???
"-betrayed to the tyrant by his brother/twin/lover/disciple" - One, how is Pilate the "tyrant"? Plus, you (or the source of this slapstick comedy) are reaching, trying to wedge generalities to make your story stick.

"-crucified (or similar variant)" - Sorry, chopping your nuts off and bleeding to death (Attis)/being dismembered (Osiris)/barbecued in the womb (Dionysus) is anything but being a "similar variant" to crucifixion. Since you can't seem to find this alleged "mystery religion" versions of their deaths (despite being asked to produce them MULTIPLE TIMES) I will default to the already-known forms of their demise, which of course, DOES NOT MATCH that Of Jesus, whatsoever.

"-placed back in a tomb" - Tombs are where DEAD folk get placed, genius. That's hardly a case for plagiarism.

"-rises from the dead after three days" - One of these days, you'll actually get off your blessed assurance and back your wacky assertions with some specifics, regarding which supposed "mystery religion" was the source for this alleged borrowing.

"-ascends into heaven" - You miss again, at least with regards to Osiris; he remains in the underworld, after his demise.

Deicide

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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2008, 06:37:56 AM »
MCWAY is hardcore, all the way hardcore.
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loco

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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2008, 07:27:04 AM »
The chapter and verse that make this claim would be………

MCWAY,
haven't you learned?  The Luke is the master of unsubstantiated claims.  Just look at this whole thread.  It's filled with "facts" he pulled out of his butt.

Mods here should consider doing what Hugo Chavez does on the politics board.  If somebody makes bold claims without posting sources, he/she should get a warning, and after that their post should be deleted if they do not comply....just kidding.   ;D

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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2008, 10:39:43 AM »
And my question has gone ignored. Even if the Jebus story were primarily original why does it get special privileges that the other absurd myths/stories do not; they are all ridiculous, why is this particular story more true or 'historically accurate' and others are not?
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MCWAY

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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2008, 11:12:06 AM »
And my question has gone ignored. Even if the Jebus story were primarily original why does it get special privileges that the other absurd myths/stories do not; they are all ridiculous, why is this particular story more true or 'historically accurate' and others are not?

You just answered your own question, Deicide It's about being "historically accurate". The account of Jesus can boast that (despite pitiful claims to the contrary by certain atheists); the others can not.

But, the subject at hand was Luke claim that the account of Jesus Christ was borrowed from other "mystery religions".

Luke, however, has YET to give any specifics about the religions in question (i.e. the name of a particular one and what aspects were supposedly borrowed). To top it all off, his claims about the Jesus account itself and the allegedly borrowed similarities aren't even accurate (you'll notice that he's yet to produce the chapter and verse from Scripture that claims Jesus was born on Dec. 25).

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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2008, 11:18:57 AM »
You just answered your own question, Deicide It's about being "historically accurate". The account of Jesus can boast that (despite pitiful claims to the contrary by certain atheists); the others can not.

But, the subject at hand was Luke claim that the account of Jesus Christ was borrowed from other "mystery religions".

Luke, however, has YET to give any specifics about the religions in question (i.e. the name of a particular one and what aspects were supposedly borrowed). To top it all off, his claims about the Jesus account itself and the allegedly borrowed similarities aren't even accurate (you'll notice that he's yet to produce the chapter and verse from Scripture that claims Jesus was born on Dec. 25).

So in spite of all the miracles and fantastical claims (which were a dime a dozen in the ancient world), because they were written down in a book, they are true. Well Troy was a real city so I guess Achilles really did die by an arrow to the heel and Athena was pissed off about it.
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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2008, 02:20:29 PM »
i am simply here to learn. but Why was Jesus never mentioned in other historical texts. i dont want to interupt the flow of the conversation though. the story just doesnt make sense. and all the contradictions? plus the fact that it was written long after He died.

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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2008, 03:04:46 PM »
i am simply here to learn. but Why was Jesus never mentioned in other historical texts. i dont want to interupt the flow of the conversation though. the story just doesnt make sense. and all the contradictions? plus the fact that it was written long after He died.

Good questions. The times he is 'mentioned' it has been shown that these are Christian forgeries. Quite strange indeed...
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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2008, 03:27:33 PM »
Good questions. The times he is 'mentioned' it has been shown that these are Christian forgeries. Quite strange indeed...
in all honestly i always wondered why Jesus was never mentioned. if He could raise the dead, wouldnt other scholars have notated that? im not trying to be a jerk or anything.
i just enjoy reading these posts..on both sides thanks.

The Luke

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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2008, 05:34:48 PM »
I didn't want to answer lists of points but I will (this once). Afterward perhaps we can go back to individual points (rather than McWay repeating all these points with his petty "na-ha"'s). 


"- loses a shoe/foot/leg (Jebus has his feet washed)" - Are you smoking that sticky-icky? Getting your feet washed equals losing a leg or foot  ???

...Once the godman has been revealed (or revealed himself to his disciples) as the "son of god" he is then usually represented as the constellation Orion (Osiris to the Egyptians, Hercules to the Greeks and Romans, Mithras to the Persians, Achilles to Macedonians and some older Greek traditions etc etc) for one pre-death chapter/story detailing his thirty third birthday... the first "son of god", Alexander the Great, died before his thirty fourth birthday, so the godman (or new "son of god") knows his time is short.

This story usually has some obvious references to folklore regarding the Orion constellation. Most notably, Orion usually has a female sexual consort: either his sister or mother, in some stories one woman fills both roles in an incestuous reproductive cycle of birth and rebirth. In the Jesus story there is some hint of this... Jesus mother is named Mary (after Mary Isis, the wife/mother of Horus... or sometimes the wife/mother of Osiris), as is Jesus' wife/consort/concubine/sister figure Mary Magdalene.

Mary Magdalene has many astrological roles in the Jesus story.
As Jesus' clandestine thirteenth disciple she represents the hidden thirteenth zodiac symbol Ophiccus (spelling?), which is used in the Northern European barbarian/Gallic lunar calendar (28 days x 13 lunar months = 364 days). As the female reproductive cycle is also linked to the moon she likewise fulfills the role of the lunar representation as the godman's (Jesus) wife: always following Jesus, usually involved in nocturnal activities (prostitution?). Sun and moon continuously entwined.

Other than having a lunar-deity/wife the only interesting thing about Orion is that the constellations "foot" dips below the horizon just before Easter.

-The Aztecs/Incas/Mayans/Toltecs knew Orion as the constellation deity Tezcatlpoca, who loses his foot.
-Perseus (originally a solar deity dying/resurrecting godman) loses his sandal
-Achilles (originally a solar deity dying/resurrecting godman) is killed by an arrow to the heel

Do we have a story in the canonical gospels in which Mary Magdalene does something involving Jesus' feet and which leads to Jesus revealing he may not be long for this world? Something that happens in the lead up to Easter?

Why does Jesus have his feet washed rather than being amputated? Because from Israel the Orion constellations "foot" is obscured by or dips into the sea rather than land/mountains... it's a matter of vantage point.


"-betrayed to the tyrant by his brother/twin/lover/disciple" - One, how is Pilate the "tyrant"? Plus, you (or the source of this slapstick comedy) are reaching, trying to wedge generalities to make your story stick.

...Pilate was a bastard of the highest order. His crowd control methods amounted to indiscriminately hacking member of the the uproarious mob to pieces. First century Jews hated him and considered him a tyrant: a representative of the tyrannical Roman authority that persecuted Christians under Caligula and Nero.

The earliest copies of the Book of Revelations (written during Caligula's pogroms) refer to "the number of the Beast" being the number of a man, and that number being 661... if you write out Gaius Ceasar (Caligula was only his nickname) in Greek, but treat the letters as numerals and add up all the figures it comes to 661, this is known as Gemmatria code and was common practice among Jewish Kabbalist mystics.

Later, during the reign of Nero, this number was changed to 666... if you write out Ceasar Nero (as he was known) in Greek, but treat the letters as numerals and add up all the figures it comes to 666, using Gemmatria code. Claudius openly tolerated Christians and dismissed their refusal to swear allegiance to him, his number is not in any extant copy of Revelations.

Later this was redeemed after the reign of Constantine, when a Gospel according to Pontias Pilate was written portraying Pilate as a sympathetic Christian believer forced to order Christ's death in order to fulfill prophecy... similar to the predicament of a heroic Judas in the Gospel of Judas. But whereas the Judas Gospel is a deep metaphysical thesis on the dual nature of the soul as both corporeal and ethereal entity, the Pilate Gospel in just plain pandering to the Roman base.

You fundies should try reading it, it's provenance is just as good as any of the canonical gospels... and it's a laugh riot!


"-crucified (or similar variant)" - Sorry, chopping your nuts off and bleeding to death (Attis)/being dismembered (Osiris)/barbecued in the womb (Dionysus) is anything but being a "similar variant" to crucifixion. Since you can't seem to find this alleged "mystery religion" versions of their deaths (despite being asked to produce them MULTIPLE TIMES) I will default to the already-known forms of their demise, which of course, DOES NOT MATCH that Of Jesus, whatsoever.

...The solar deity version of Attis is NAILED TO A TREE (representing the constellation of The Southern Cross) and is castrated so he bleeds to death.

Osiris is indeed dismembered... cut into 72 pieces if I remember correctly (by the evil tyrant Sett) which is an important astrological number as the precession of the equinoxes backwards through the zodiac progresses (regresses?) by one degree every 72 years (actually now known to be 71.8 years). But it is the method of dismemberment that you forgot; he's quartered. Nailed up on a rack or tree and chopped into pieces which are then scattered to the four cardinal points: north, south, east and west... represented by the constellation of The Southern Cross.


"-placed back in a tomb" - Tombs are where DEAD folk get placed, genius. That's hardly a case for plagiarism.

...Most poor people are simply buried, and most would be burned in that climate (Jews are buried). Only the rich are placed in a tomb.

Isn't there a big deal made in the gospels about Jesus being placed specifically in a TOMB?

Isn't this always what happens to solar deities? The sun sets further and further down the horizon as it dies (shorter days) setting in an area of sky devoid of stars, known to the ancients as either the "cave" or the "tomb".

This is common to dozens of solar deities all over the world... three days setting in the "cave" or "tomb" only to rise again and be reborn (ie: sun gets stronger).


"-rises from the dead after three days" - One of these days, you'll actually get off your blessed assurance and back your wacky assertions with some specifics, regarding which supposed "mystery religion" was the source for this alleged borrowing.

...I already answered this point: it's an astrological allegory just like the rest of the Jesus story.

Regarding a source... well that might be tricky. I'm more of a mystery enthusiast than a Google-Fu Blackbelt like my opponents here. So it's probably best (and faster) if I let them do the searching.

When he came to power, the Roman Emperor Constantine (a habitual murderer now a canonised saint in the catholic firmament) attempted to harness the burgeoning popularity of newfangled "common man" versions of the Mystery Religion (which offered salvation to ALL those initiated into the Mystery Religion, not just the moneyed donors) by instigating Mithraism as the state religion.

Mithraism (based on the Persian Jesus known as Mithras) was wildly popular among the pagan citizenry of the Roman Empire (especially among legionaries) and offered Constantine (an amoral atheistic alchemist himself) huge sway over the ignorant plebs (and military) if he could institute himself as the Pontifex Maximus (Pope) of an empire-wide Church of Mithras.

It didn't work... Constantine thought everyone would accept Mithraism as in his eyes all the solar deity Mystery Religion gods were interchangeable... the populace, mostly ignorant of such symbolism, thought differently.

19 years later he tried again, instituting the Cult of Sol Invictus (the Invincible Sun) as the state religion and declaring himself both "Son of God" and Pontifex Maximus (which is still the Catholic Pope's official title to this day). A religion that openly equated/accepted all other versions of the solar deity (dying resurrecting godman) as interchangeable with their own.

Romans (even the previously suppressed Christians) would be free to worship whichever "facet" of Sol Invictus they preferred... any of the dozens of gods:
-born on 25th December to a virgin
-who were attended/recognized by three kings
-who was wise at an early age
-who was baptised in a river (the Milky Way)
-who chose 12 disciples
-who had a secret wife/consort/discipline
-who performed miracles
-who raised the dead
-who was crucified
-who was buried in a cave
-who rose from the dead after 3 days

(ALL of which are astrological metaphors/allegories)

...so long as they accepted that their particular dying/resurrecting godman was merely an aspect of the generalized Sol Invictus (and thereby recognized Constantine as their religious/secular authority) their beliefs were granted state protection (or at least state tolerance).

In the ensuing centuries the Catholic Church rewrote the history books to re-envision Constantine as the first Holy Roman Emperor... total bullshit.


If you are interested in reading more about the Mystery Religion then look up "The Cult of Sol Invictus", as a composite faith amalgamated from the many and various pre-Christian Mystery Schools it is the best place to start your research. Alternatively, authors Gandy and Freke have written an excellent academic treatise on the Jesus Myth "The Jesus Mysteries" (dismissed by true believers because it is so very convincing). Or perhaps Google the phrase "Christs before Christ".

If you are interested in reading about how the founding Church Fathers (Ireneaus, Eusebius etc) openly admitted that several pre-Christian Mystery Religion gods were substantively indistinguishable from Jesus, then simply research the "Doctrine of Diabolical Mimicry". A doctrine, which, though patently laughably absurd is still the Church's official position.

If you want to read about how Christians rewrote history and burned books in an attempt to eradicate the Mystery Religions and co-opt Constantine as the founder of institutionalized Christianity, then look-up the phrase: "Donation of Constantine"... that's a good place to start.


"-ascends into heaven" - You miss again, at least with regards to Osiris; he remains in the underworld, after his demise.

...Actually I think you might be right here McWay. Didn't the Egyptians split their solar-deity dying/resurrecting godman deal into two generations?

Osiris doesn't assume bodily into heaven... my mistuke... it's his son, Horus the miracle child, who mimics just about every detail of the Jesus story thousands of years before Christ.

You got me... my bad.



The Luke
PS... short posts people, so I can give short answers... please.

Deicide

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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2008, 03:19:10 AM »
I didn't want to answer lists of points but I will (this once). Afterward perhaps we can go back to individual points (rather than McWay repeating all these points with his petty "na-ha"'s). 


...Once the godman has been revealed (or revealed himself to his disciples) as the "son of god" he is then usually represented as the constellation Orion (Osiris to the Egyptians, Hercules to the Greeks and Romans, Mithras to the Persians, Achilles to Macedonians and some older Greek traditions etc etc) for one pre-death chapter/story detailing his thirty third birthday... the first "son of god", Alexander the Great, died before his thirty fourth birthday, so the godman (or new "son of god") knows his time is short.

This story usually has some obvious references to folklore regarding the Orion constellation. Most notably, Orion usually has a female sexual consort: either his sister or mother, in some stories one woman fills both roles in an incestuous reproductive cycle of birth and rebirth. In the Jesus story there is some hint of this... Jesus mother is named Mary (after Mary Isis, the wife/mother of Horus... or sometimes the wife/mother of Osiris), as is Jesus' wife/consort/concubine/sister figure Mary Magdalene.

Mary Magdalene has many astrological roles in the Jesus story.
As Jesus' clandestine thirteenth disciple she represents the hidden thirteenth zodiac symbol Ophiccus (spelling?), which is used in the Northern European barbarian/Gallic lunar calendar (28 days x 13 lunar months = 364 days). As the female reproductive cycle is also linked to the moon she likewise fulfills the role of the lunar representation as the godman's (Jesus) wife: always following Jesus, usually involved in nocturnal activities (prostitution?). Sun and moon continuously entwined.

Other than having a lunar-deity/wife the only interesting thing about Orion is that the constellations "foot" dips below the horizon just before Easter.

-The Aztecs/Incas/Mayans/Toltecs knew Orion as the constellation deity Tezcatlpoca, who loses his foot.
-Perseus (originally a solar deity dying/resurrecting godman) loses his sandal
-Achilles (originally a solar deity dying/resurrecting godman) is killed by an arrow to the heel

Do we have a story in the canonical gospels in which Mary Magdalene does something involving Jesus' feet and which leads to Jesus revealing he may not be long for this world? Something that happens in the lead up to Easter?

Why does Jesus have his feet washed rather than being amputated? Because from Israel the Orion constellations "foot" is obscured by or dips into the sea rather than land/mountains... it's a matter of vantage point.


...Pilate was a bastard of the highest order. His crowd control methods amounted to indiscriminately hacking member of the the uproarious mob to pieces. First century Jews hated him and considered him a tyrant: a representative of the tyrannical Roman authority that persecuted Christians under Caligula and Nero.

The earliest copies of the Book of Revelations (written during Caligula's pogroms) refer to "the number of the Beast" being the number of a man, and that number being 661... if you write out Gaius Ceasar (Caligula was only his nickname) in Greek, but treat the letters as numerals and add up all the figures it comes to 661, this is known as Gemmatria code and was common practice among Jewish Kabbalist mystics.

Later, during the reign of Nero, this number was changed to 666... if you write out Ceasar Nero (as he was known) in Greek, but treat the letters as numerals and add up all the figures it comes to 666, using Gemmatria code. Claudius openly tolerated Christians and dismissed their refusal to swear allegiance to him, his number is not in any extant copy of Revelations.

Later this was redeemed after the reign of Constantine, when a Gospel according to Pontias Pilate was written portraying Pilate as a sympathetic Christian believer forced to order Christ's death in order to fulfill prophecy... similar to the predicament of a heroic Judas in the Gospel of Judas. But whereas the Judas Gospel is a deep metaphysical thesis on the dual nature of the soul as both corporeal and ethereal entity, the Pilate Gospel in just plain pandering to the Roman base.

You fundies should try reading it, it's provenance is just as good as any of the canonical gospels... and it's a laugh riot!


...The solar deity version of Attis is NAILED TO A TREE (representing the constellation of The Southern Cross) and is castrated so he bleeds to death.

Osiris is indeed dismembered... cut into 72 pieces if I remember correctly (by the evil tyrant Sett) which is an important astrological number as the precession of the equinoxes backwards through the zodiac progresses (regresses?) by one degree every 72 years (actually now known to be 71.8 years). But it is the method of dismemberment that you forgot; he's quartered. Nailed up on a rack or tree and chopped into pieces which are then scattered to the four cardinal points: north, south, east and west... represented by the constellation of The Southern Cross.


...Most poor people are simply buried, and most would be burned in that climate (Jews are buried). Only the rich are placed in a tomb.

Isn't there a big deal made in the gospels about Jesus being placed specifically in a TOMB?

Isn't this always what happens to solar deities? The sun sets further and further down the horizon as it dies (shorter days) setting in an area of sky devoid of stars, known to the ancients as either the "cave" or the "tomb".

This is common to dozens of solar deities all over the world... three days setting in the "cave" or "tomb" only to rise again and be reborn (ie: sun gets stronger).


...I already answered this point: it's an astrological allegory just like the rest of the Jesus story.

Regarding a source... well that might be tricky. I'm more of a mystery enthusiast than a Google-Fu Blackbelt like my opponents here. So it's probably best (and faster) if I let them do the searching.

When he came to power, the Roman Emperor Constantine (a habitual murderer now a canonised saint in the catholic firmament) attempted to harness the burgeoning popularity of newfangled "common man" versions of the Mystery Religion (which offered salvation to ALL those initiated into the Mystery Religion, not just the moneyed donors) by instigating Mithraism as the state religion.

Mithraism (based on the Persian Jesus known as Mithras) was wildly popular among the pagan citizenry of the Roman Empire (especially among legionaries) and offered Constantine (an amoral atheistic alchemist himself) huge sway over the ignorant plebs (and military) if he could institute himself as the Pontifex Maximus (Pope) of an empire-wide Church of Mithras.

It didn't work... Constantine thought everyone would accept Mithraism as in his eyes all the solar deity Mystery Religion gods were interchangeable... the populace, mostly ignorant of such symbolism, thought differently.

19 years later he tried again, instituting the Cult of Sol Invictus (the Invincible Sun) as the state religion and declaring himself both "Son of God" and Pontifex Maximus (which is still the Catholic Pope's official title to this day). A religion that openly equated/accepted all other versions of the solar deity (dying resurrecting godman) as interchangeable with their own.

Romans (even the previously suppressed Christians) would be free to worship whichever "facet" of Sol Invictus they preferred... any of the dozens of gods:
-born on 25th December to a virgin
-who were attended/recognized by three kings
-who was wise at an early age
-who was baptised in a river (the Milky Way)
-who chose 12 disciples
-who had a secret wife/consort/discipline
-who performed miracles
-who raised the dead
-who was crucified
-who was buried in a cave
-who rose from the dead after 3 days

(ALL of which are astrological metaphors/allegories)

...so long as they accepted that their particular dying/resurrecting godman was merely an aspect of the generalized Sol Invictus (and thereby recognized Constantine as their religious/secular authority) their beliefs were granted state protection (or at least state tolerance).

In the ensuing centuries the Catholic Church rewrote the history books to re-envision Constantine as the first Holy Roman Emperor... total bullshit.


If you are interested in reading more about the Mystery Religion then look up "The Cult of Sol Invictus", as a composite faith amalgamated from the many and various pre-Christian Mystery Schools it is the best place to start your research. Alternatively, authors Gandy and Freke have written an excellent academic treatise on the Jesus Myth "The Jesus Mysteries" (dismissed by true believers because it is so very convincing). Or perhaps Google the phrase "Christs before Christ".

If you are interested in reading about how the founding Church Fathers (Ireneaus, Eusebius etc) openly admitted that several pre-Christian Mystery Religion gods were substantively indistinguishable from Jesus, then simply research the "Doctrine of Diabolical Mimicry". A doctrine, which, though patently laughably absurd is still the Church's official position.

If you want to read about how Christians rewrote history and burned books in an attempt to eradicate the Mystery Religions and co-opt Constantine as the founder of institutionalized Christianity, then look-up the phrase: "Donation of Constantine"... that's a good place to start.


...Actually I think you might be right here McWay. Didn't the Egyptians split their solar-deity dying/resurrecting godman deal into two generations?

Osiris doesn't assume bodily into heaven... my mistuke... it's his son, Horus the miracle child, who mimics just about every detail of the Jesus story thousands of years before Christ.

You got me... my bad.



The Luke
PS... short posts people, so I can give short answers... please.

Like I said: Bob Price nails it rather concisely.
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webcake

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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2008, 03:23:55 AM »
Like I said: Bob Price nails it rather concisely.

Would it be fair to say that most highly intelligent people are not religious?
No doubt about it...

Deicide

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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2008, 04:27:24 AM »
Would it be a fair to say that most highly intelligent people are not religious?

Yes.
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webcake

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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2008, 04:46:07 AM »
No doubt about it...

Deicide

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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2008, 04:56:09 AM »
Thought so...

Hardcore, all the way hardcore...
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webcake

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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2008, 05:01:14 AM »
Hardcore, all the way hardcore...

I do what i can...
No doubt about it...

Deicide

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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2008, 05:06:31 AM »
I do what i can...

Damn hardcore... :o
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webcake

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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2008, 05:12:14 AM »
Damn hardcore... :o

and great genetics. Hard core, great genetics, things are good in the world of webcke.
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Deicide

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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2008, 05:33:37 AM »
and great genetics. Hard core, great genetics, things are good in the world of webcke.

Exactly, hardcore.
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wavelength

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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2008, 11:34:59 AM »
Would it be fair to say that most highly intelligent people are not religious?

Depends on what you call religious.
Many of the greatest thinkers of all time called themselves religious.





...yes I know I'm hardcore...

The Luke

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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2008, 11:57:02 AM »
Many of the greatest thinkers of all time called themselves religious.

...name one.


The Luke

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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2008, 12:12:15 PM »
Depends on what you call religious.
Many of the greatest thinkers of all time called themselves religious.





...yes I know I'm hardcore...

Wow...hardcore.
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wavelength

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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #47 on: November 15, 2008, 12:12:24 PM »
...name one.


The Luke

Are you serious? How about Kant, Hegel, Descartes, Thomas von Aquin, Kierkegaard for starters? They all criticized certain aspects of religion of course, but in a philosophic way, 1000 times beyond the reductionistic nonsense of the atheistic simpletons like Dawkins etc.

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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #48 on: November 15, 2008, 12:15:40 PM »
Are you serious? How about Kant, Hegel, Descartes, Thomas von Aquin, Kierkegaard for starters? They all criticized certain aspects of religion of course, but in a philosophic way, 1000 times beyond the reductionistic nonsense of the atheistic simpletons like Dawkins etc.

We say Aquinus in English; so hardcore.
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Re: Is there anything original in the Jesus story?
« Reply #49 on: November 15, 2008, 01:12:33 PM »
Are you serious? How about Kant, Hegel, Descartes, Thomas von Aquin, Kierkegaard for starters? They all criticized certain aspects of religion of course, but in a philosophic way, 1000 times beyond the reductionistic nonsense of the atheistic simpletons like Dawkins etc.


what descartes was wrong about most of what he said, thomas aquinas proofs of god are terrible and easily refuted.

nothing cannot create something therefore something always existed which is its essence to exist bing bang boom its god. thomas aquinas.