Author Topic: Bench press help!  (Read 6941 times)

wes

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2008, 09:26:03 PM »
well i estimate my max at about 335 or so, maybe more if i didnt care about using shoulders and triceps, i think i would be able to do 500 (5 plates a side)... but im not saying that anybody should try to lift any more weight than they are comfortable lifting

nobody should lift a weight that they dont feel safe lifting or that they are "scared of. thats setting ones self up for injury.
Dude c`mon!
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Geo

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2008, 09:42:18 PM »
well i estimate my max at about 335 or so, maybe more if i didnt care about using shoulders and triceps, i think i would be able to do 500 (5 plates a side)

uhhh........no !

Hedgehog

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2008, 10:37:40 PM »
I fail to understand why on earth negatives would work for bodybuilding purposes (or even strength training purposes for that matter).

The muscle is stimulated only through the concentric range and determining how stimulated it gets is determined by how many muscle fibres are recruited to perform the concentric action. This is why half reps are not effective either - you need to recruit as much muscle fibres as possible to stimulate the muscle to its fullest. No amount of weight will help you on the eccentric portion of the rep and nobody ever got bigger or stronger by performing negative reps with a spotter. You don't see WSM competitiors doing negatives in the gym to help with their strength - why would it help anyone elses?

Here's where you're fundamentally wrong, in my humble opinion.

Or lets say that you and I are of opposing opinions?

I believe, after seeing studies and talking to a few sports scientists, that it is only during the eccentric phase that there is significant hypertrophic stimuli.

Obviously, there are a few other things that dictate strength (eg neuromuscular pathway signal strength), but for a bodybuilder, IMO, it does not make any sense to do slow concentric repetitions.

The focus should be on the eccentric portion of the repetition.

I've seen a study in which a leg press where used, concentric and eccentric versions of the leg press where performed.

Only in the eccentric test group where there significant acute anabolic signals.

I respect your opinion, but I totally disagree.

As far as eccentric training goes though:

It could probably be used by anyone.

And just like Magoo stated, beginners can probably get away with using a higher percentage.

But the problem for inexperienced lifters, is that there's a big chance that they will increase the weights used the whole time and do too many sets and too much volume.

Maybe this is what wes was referring to, and then I think he's right. You need to be experienced, or have a very good layout and follow it.

Or optimally, have someone guiding you. Then eccentrics are an awesome tool IMO.

FWIW, I think eccentric reverse hypers (Lay down on a lateral extension board and have your buddy pull you down) is an excellent rehab/prehab excersise.
Just as eccentric crunches can be a great alternative for those who wants to do crunches but have an hurting lower back or hip.


When implementing eccentrics:

* control total volume

* don't do them every week. use it moderatly, be aware of its effect.

* why not try focusing on the eccentric phase in regular sets for a few weeks. see what happens.



Finally, a short note on what you wrote about half reps:

This is why half reps are not effective either - you need to recruit as much muscle fibres as possible to stimulate the muscle to its fullest.

I'm not sure you understand how muscle fibers work.

They're much like lamps.

Either they work full force. Or they don't.

Which mean that in order to work all muscle fibers, we need to lift as heavy weights as possible.

This is one reason why eccentrics are great. They allow us to recruit more muscle fibers than we normally do during a conventional set.

There's something called the "Hennemann's size principle" which means that the muscle will recruit only the muscle fibers needed for the work it has to do.

So in effect, it means that the strongest fibers will be resting until we give them hell.

The slow twitch fibers are constantly working, even in our daily life.
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vic86

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2008, 11:25:55 PM »
thank you for your response,
i tend to keep my bench routine this way
total 4 sets
1-warm ups- 15-18 reps
2-moderate-10-12 reps
3-heavy failure sets-6-8 reps
4-same as 3
i always train for hypertrophy and strength, i do increase my poundages gradually as my reps with the weight increases,i always tend to keep a 2 week cycle , meaning if the first week i do flat bench with barbell, the next week i substitute with flat dumbell bench , and it goes on like that,alternating workouts with other body parts too, as said in the previous posts how often should i try for 1-2 reps max?? lately i have been doing lower partials and avoiding lockouts at top?can i also follow explosive form ie bouncing the bar?

For the tris
should i be training them with chest?or do it separately just to bring out strength wouldnt it be taxing to do three pressing movoments in a week?
for delts
i have been doing hangclean presses to improve my arm strength, also for my delts.

Hedgehog

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2008, 11:38:38 PM »
thank you for your response,
i tend to keep my bench routine this way
total 4 sets
1-warm ups- 15-18 reps
2-moderate-10-12 reps
3-heavy failure sets-6-8 reps
4-same as 3
i always train for hypertrophy and strength, i do increase my poundages gradually as my reps with the weight increases,i always tend to keep a 2 week cycle , meaning if the first week i do flat bench with barbell, the next week i substitute with flat dumbell bench , and it goes on like that,alternating workouts with other body parts too, as said in the previous posts how often should i try for 1-2 reps max?? lately i have been doing lower partials and avoiding lockouts at top?can i also follow explosive form ie bouncing the bar?

For the tris
should i be training them with chest?or do it separately just to bring out strength wouldnt it be taxing to do three pressing movoments in a week?
for delts
i have been doing hangclean presses to improve my arm strength, also for my delts.

I think it's a mistake to train to failure on a regular basis.

Let me suggest this approach on the sets:

Warmup: Bar/10 reps, 95/5*3

Then one or two sets with the moderate weight or slightly more: X/2, X/2,

Then finally 3-4 sets of heavy benchpressing, eg: 185/6, 195/6, 190/6 (I have no idea how strong you are in the benchpress, I just wrote down some random numbers).

Also, do the whole range of motion, you definitely want to hit your triceps as well.

Periodising the training is a way to get good gains.

An easy way to periodise your training is to have one heavier week and one lighter week.

On the lighter week, you do the same amount of reps and sets, but 10% lighter on everything.

On the heavier week, you always try to go a little heavier.

This works pretty good for beginners. More advanced lifters will probably need to periodise their training some more.
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JasonH

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2009, 06:37:46 AM »
Negative reps at 150% of a person's normal bench range?!   ::)

Oh please - if that was me I'd have to put about 500lbs on the bar which I wouldn't even be able to get off the rack. And if I was lucky enough to get it off the rack it would drive me through the floor! Not to mention that my spotter would get an unbelieveable trap and shoulder workout from all the upright rows he'd be doing at my expense!

Honestly, sometimes the "advice" on this training forum borders on the retarded.

MisterMagoo

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2009, 09:33:36 AM »
well i estimate my max at about 335 or so, maybe more if i didnt care about using shoulders and triceps, i think i would be able to do 500 (5 plates a side)...

no. no you can't. i'll say right now you can't even do 4 plates a side no matter how much you try and use shoulders and triceps. i can push 3 plates with my feet in the air and there's video evidence of what happened when i tried 385. you have to be absolutely delusional to think if your current max is in the mid-300's you'd be able to even HOLD 5 plates. i will say right now you couldn't even do 500 if you had the thickest denim shirt you could buy. period.

and if you're honestly suggesting you've been doing negatives with 505 you must think we're pretty low-watt bulbs. your elbows and shoulders would explode with that. if you had the power to lower 505 to your chest you'd be able to get 405 up easily. EASILY. i did a negative with 425 once and the last six inches were almost scary with how heavy it felt.

tbombz

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2009, 09:35:57 AM »
seeems like a whole lot of very strong opinions about negatives.


 ;D

MisterMagoo

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2009, 09:37:54 AM »
negs are fine. your lies and/or deluded estimations of your abilities are not.  :-\

seriously man, 335 is a good bench, but there's no way period you'll be shoving 500. end of story. you may think you aren't using any chest or shoulders, but you are. and quite a lot.

tbombz

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2009, 09:48:01 AM »
why do you take that so seriously? i just threw out a % higher than 100% to make it above the max. but its a negative...its just lowering the bar. anybody is going to be able to do a massive amount with negatives.

MisterMagoo

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #35 on: January 02, 2009, 09:52:03 AM »
why do you take that so seriously? i just threw out a % higher than 100% to make it above the max. but its a negative...its just lowering the bar. anybody is going to be able to do a massive amount with negatives.

no they won't because there comes a point when your tendons and ligaments just can't support that much pressure. if your body can press 350 that means you can push with about 355 pounds of pressure (assuming you can push with more force than the weight of the bar in order to make it move). no matter how much weight above that you use, you can only put 355 pounds of force to slow it down.

put something insanely above your maximal load and you're still only pushing with 355 pounds of force. it doesn't matter if you do that negative with 380 or 580, you're pushing back just as hard. only difference now is you're taking an insane toll on your joints just trying to support it.

i guarantee you right now you aren't doing 150% of your 1RM on negatives, and you won't be able to even HOLD 500 if you're maxing at 335.

tbombz

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2009, 09:58:20 AM »
i dont do negatives and i dont max out, i estimated both.


if you think lowering 5 plates is to tough without even trying it, stop being a pussy. you will NEVER do anything that you dont BELIEVE you can do before doing it.

MisterMagoo

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2009, 10:08:19 AM »
um, i've lowered 425 and my current max is 375-380. if i put 500 in my hands my shoulders would explode. in a bench shirt, 465 made my elbows hurt after i tried it enough times.

unless you underestimated your max by around 150 pounds, you cannot bench 500. end of story. sorry dude. game over. try again.

wes

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #38 on: January 02, 2009, 11:47:40 AM »
i dont do negatives and i dont max out, i estimated both.


if you think lowering 5 plates is to tough without even trying it, stop being a pussy. you will NEVER do anything that you dont BELIEVE you can do before doing it.
Good attitude to have dude,but in this case it`s not realistic.

Try lowering 500 pounds and then when you get out of the hospital and the casts come off both arms, and the sutures are removed from your shoulders,tell us how heavy it felt!! :)

You`re a good kid who parrots a lot of info,and you do know a lot,but you ain`t been around long enough to have the real world gym experience if you think you can lower 500 pounds under control.

tbombz

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #39 on: January 02, 2009, 11:49:56 AM »
Good attitude to have dude,but in this case it`s not realistic.

Try lowering 500 pounds and then when you get out of the hospital and the casts come off both arms, and the sutures are removed from your shoulders,tell us how heavy it felt!! :)

You`re a good kid who parrots a lot of info,and you do know a lot,but you ain`t been around long enough to have the real world gym experience if you think you can lower 500 pounds under control.
well t be honest i never lift heavy so i have no idea what 500 lbs feels like on anything except legs. but i dont think its a good attitude to have = " i could never lower that amount of weight" i wont admit defeat untill ive experienced it. untill i try that, then ill always believe i can do it.

wes

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #40 on: January 02, 2009, 12:13:14 PM »
I have the same attitude bro,but you have to be realistic.

Why not try 600 or 700?

Get the point?  :)

tonymctones

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2009, 12:16:15 PM »
thank you for your response,
i tend to keep my bench routine this way
total 4 sets
1-warm ups- 15-18 reps
2-moderate-10-12 reps
3-heavy failure sets-6-8 reps
4-same as 3
i always train for hypertrophy and strength, i do increase my poundages gradually as my reps with the weight increases,i always tend to keep a 2 week cycle , meaning if the first week i do flat bench with barbell, the next week i substitute with flat dumbell bench , and it goes on like that,alternating workouts with other body parts too, as said in the previous posts how often should i try for 1-2 reps max?? lately i have been doing lower partials and avoiding lockouts at top?can i also follow explosive form ie bouncing the bar?

For the tris
should i be training them with chest?or do it separately just to bring out strength wouldnt it be taxing to do three pressing movoments in a week?
for delts
i have been doing hangclean presses to improve my arm strength, also for my delts.
Ive always seen better improvement in strength on lifts when i stick to that lift for a while so if i where you i would stick with DB or BB until you hit a plateu and then switch to the other and back when you get stuck again just my opinion. Ive never been able to train tris with chest or bi's with back but thats just me. I would shy away from bouncing the bar ive never heard of benifits from that but maybe others on here might have a different opinion. I think sooner or later it will only lead to injury or just ego lifting. I think once every 6 weeks or 2 months would be good for maxing out, that should give you enough time to make some progress.

thewickedtruth

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2009, 12:26:05 PM »
lmao

best thread ever in the training board!

 ;D ;D

MisterMagoo

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #43 on: January 02, 2009, 01:05:07 PM »
well t be honest i never lift heavy so i have no idea what 500 lbs feels like on anything except legs. but i dont think its a good attitude to have = " i could never lower that amount of weight" i wont admit defeat untill ive experienced it. untill i try that, then ill always believe i can do it.

so shoot for the moon. put 10 plates on each side and see what happens. and please, please record it. i sense potentially epic fail.

you know what, you're right. i think i'll put 1500 pounds on the squat bar and do 1/8 reps in the rack off the pins. then i'll follow it up by loading 2600 pounds on the leg press and getting some friends to help me do some forced reps. afterwards i'll hop on the incline and load it up with 585 for a negative. i'm sure i won't experience any joint issues whatsoever.

::)

wes

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2009, 01:28:21 PM »
C`mon Zach,you`re sure to get hurt!! LOL  :)

MisterMagoo

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #45 on: January 02, 2009, 01:32:28 PM »
you're just saying that because you're too scared to find out your limits! you'll see, when i go for my hang pull negative with 945 and my spinae erectors explode, you'll be all jealous!  >:(

wes

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #46 on: January 02, 2009, 01:41:54 PM »
Alright,I am a bit jealous,but only a bit!!  :)

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #47 on: January 02, 2009, 01:44:05 PM »
hahahaha, "hang pull negative with 945", that would be something to see. ;D

wes

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #48 on: January 02, 2009, 02:26:56 PM »
He could probably do it Dave..............no limits baby !!  :)

tbombz

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Re: Bench press help!
« Reply #49 on: January 02, 2009, 04:25:24 PM »
magoo if you want to put limits on yourself, go ahead.

you do your thing, ill do mine, see you at the finish line  8)