Author Topic: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes  (Read 9344 times)

MCWAY

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2009, 01:08:54 PM »
Good move for peace. Invade and bomb some more. Way to go Israel the nation of peace, of course.

What part of  “Death to Israel” didn't register?

That’s the mantra of Hamas, pure and simple. They say, in no uncertain terms, that their sole purpose in life is to DESTROY THE JEWISH people.

And you're blasting ISRAEL for not being the "nation of peace"  ???

Besides, they (Hamas) should be thrilled. As the saying goes, "Be careful what you wish for......YOU JUST MIGHT GET IT!!!" They wanted a "holy war"; now they got one.

OOPS!!! I forgot! They don't dig the Jihad stuff, when Israel is putting a foot in their behind. When that happens, they bleat and blubber to the UN to save them from getting beat down. The saddest part is Israel has probably killed more of its own troops by accident, than the Hamas folks have.

Hedgehog

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2009, 01:09:13 PM »
So is Israels self defense.

Definitely.

Israel has a right to defend themselves.

But the problem arises when so many civilians gets killed.

Would 200+ Israeli civilians be an acceptable loss to the Israeli government for this action?

There's this notion that everyone that gets killed in the attack are to some degree an enemy, since they are "Palestinians".

But since they are civilians, and Hamas is the enemy, that is per definition not true.

The biggest problem however, is that the people in Gaza are relying on Hamas for their survival due to the sanctions by Israel. The economy is hurting badly.

You don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Perhaps Israel could change that with drastic political measures.
As empty as paradise

Fury

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2009, 01:18:17 PM »
Hamas themselves have admitted that over 80% of the casualties have been Hamas members.

Slapper

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2009, 08:39:49 AM »
???

Hateful Hadith Again PA TV
A hadith is a saying or tradition attributed to the Prophet Muhammad. One particular hadith that has been repeated by academic and religious figures over and over on Palestinian Authority Television relates a time in the future when the rocks and the trees of the earth will call out to Muslims to kill them. Indeed, according to this hadith, until Muslims start killing Jews and the rocks and the trees reveal the latter's hiding places, the Hour of Resurrection - the end of the world - won't come.
By continually preaching this message to Palestinians, the PA is turning the killing of Jews into a religious obligation.
http://www.pmw.org.il/tv%20part6.html


It is taken from Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176 & 177 of the Sahih Bukhari edition of the Hadith. The title of this chapter is, "Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad)"

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

You guys keep falling onto my lap.

I understand there is plenty of rhetoric to go around in the Koran the same way there is rhetoric in the Bible or many other religious books that were intellectually conceived at a time when insulting one's honour meant certain death for either the "insulter" or the "insultee".

Apart from pure rhetoric and words, which do not kill, I ask you a simple yes-or-no question:

How many Holocausts have the Jewish diaspora have to endure in Muslim lands?

Like I said, it's a simple question.

loco

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2009, 09:13:46 AM »
You guys keep falling onto my lap.

I understand there is plenty of rhetoric to go around in the Koran the same way there is rhetoric in the Bible or many other religious books that were intellectually conceived at a time when insulting one's honour meant certain death for either the "insulter" or the "insultee".

Apart from pure rhetoric and words, which do not kill, I ask you a simple yes-or-no question:

How many Holocausts have the Jewish diaspora have to endure in Muslim lands?

Like I said, it's a simple question.

Where in the Bible is this same rhetoric?  It's a simple question.


Several decrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were enacted in Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Yemen from the 11th century.  Jews were also forced to convert to Islam or face death in some parts of Yemen, Morocco and Baghdad several times between the 12th and 18th centuries.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Jews_in_Arab_lands_(gen).html

Islamic antisemitism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_antisemitism#Islamic_antisemitism

Islam and antisemitism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_antisemitism

Soul Crusher

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2009, 09:30:22 AM »
The only thing you slap is your salami with these idiot posts of yours. 

Slapper

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2009, 09:44:20 AM »
Where in the Bible is this same rhetoric?  It's a simple question.


Several decrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were enacted in Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Yemen from the 11th century.  Jews were also forced to convert to Islam or face death in some parts of Yemen, Morocco and Baghdad several times between the 12th and 18th centuries.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Jews_in_Arab_lands_(gen).html

Islamic antisemitism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_antisemitism#Islamic_antisemitism

Islam and antisemitism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_antisemitism

I asked you a simple question.

Please answer it.

Slapper

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2009, 09:45:34 AM »
The only thing you slap is your salami with these idiot posts of yours.

Another great quote on your part.

 ::) ::)

loco

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2009, 10:00:48 AM »
I asked you a simple question.

Please answer it.

I did.  Follow the links.

I asked you a simple quetion too.  Please answer it!

IFBBwannaB

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2009, 11:13:29 AM »
I did.  Follow the links.

I asked you a simple quetion too.  Please answer it!

He can't answer it, he is too busy making a pipe bomb to kill children.

Slapper

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2009, 11:25:22 AM »
I did.  Follow the links.

I asked you a simple question too.  Please answer it!

Dude, I did follow the links and feel that my question is unanswered: How

How many Holocausts have the Jewish diaspora have to endure in Muslim lands?

24KT

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2009, 02:01:05 AM »
This weekend, there were thousands of people protesting outside the Israeli consulate AGAINST the Israeli military offensive in Gaza, including a prominent Jewish group that says this is pure genocide of the Palestinian people, and won't do a thing to Hamas except possibly strengthen them.

There were however 2 lone individuals in support of the Israeli offensive.
w

IFBBwannaB

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2009, 02:36:38 AM »
This weekend, there were thousands of people protesting outside the Israeli consulate AGAINST the Israeli military offensive in Gaza, including a prominent Jewish group that says this is pure genocide of the Palestinian people, and won't do a thing to Hamas except possibly strengthen them.

There were however 2 lone individuals in support of the Israeli offensive.

Yawn.

Mars

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2009, 04:03:14 AM »
the palestinians should riot themselves against these god fanatics. but i asked myself, does the majority really wants hamas or not?
they voted them in office but on what circumstances.
i know hamas just like hezbollah offers poor people a chance to supply them with food and "education" and serve as an social welfare system so it might be that they are in a stranglehold they cant get out anymore despite their silent objections against them.

Slapper

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2009, 08:52:10 AM »
Where in the Bible is this same rhetoric?  It's a simple question.[...]

Well, I did ask you first, but I guess it's too much to ask. Anyway, I already know the answer to my question (hint: NONE!), but I wanna hear you say it.

As for the answer to your question, here are a few quotes. Keep in mind the Bible has been "cleaned up" on a number of occasions due to the fact that it was begining to sound more like a sadomasochistic manual than a religious holy book. Anyvei:

On Punishing ‘Immorality’
 
Leviticus 20:9

If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.

20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 22:20-1 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. 

Exodus 35:2

For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death. 

On Destroying Other People
 
Deuteronomy 7:1-2

When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

20:10-17 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.

On the Evil of Biblical Law
 
Ezekiel 20:25-26 I also gave them over to statutes that were not good and laws they could not live by; I let them become defiled through their gifts—the sacrifice of every firstborn—that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the LORD.

On Slavery & Subjugation of Women
 
Ephesians 5:22-24

Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

Exodus 21:20-21 If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men.

2:18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.
Leviticus 25:44-45

Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.

Jesus, on His Second Coming
 
Matthew 24:29-34 [T]he sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. . . . They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. . . . I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. [Emphasis added.] 

16:27-28 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

Scientific Errors
 
(1) Rabbits don’t chew cud.

Deuteronomy 14:6-7 You may eat any animal that has a split hoof divided in two and that chews the cud. However, of those that chew the cud or that have a split hoof completely divided you may not eat the camel, the rabbit, or the coney.

(2) No insects (including grasshoppers) are 4-legged.

Leviticus 11:20-22 All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you. There are, however, some winged creatures that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground. Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper.

(3) This is only possible on a flat earth.

Matthew 4:8 Again the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.

(4) pi does not = 3.

1 Kings 7:23 He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim . . . It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it.

(5) The earth moves. It does not have a foundation.

Psalms 104:5 He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.

Selected Contradictions
 
(1) 2 Kings 2:11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.

John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

(2) Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.

Exodus 32:14 Then the Lord relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.

(3) Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith . . . not by works.

James 2:14-17 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? . . . Faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

Revelation 22:12 Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.

(4) (Jesus speaking)

Matthew 5:16 Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your father in heaven.

Matthew 6:1 Be careful not to do your ‘acts of righteousness’ before men, to be seen by them.

(5) (Jesus speaking)

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you.

Matthew 10:34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

(6) Genesis 32:30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and my life was preserved.”

Exodus 33:11 The Lord would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend.

John 1:18 No one has ever seen God.

(7) (Jesus speaking) 

John 5:31 If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid.

John 8:14 Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid.


Cheers mate!

Slapper

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2009, 09:19:17 AM »
And on the MULTIPLE holocausts th Jewish diaspora had to endure in CHRISTIAN LANDS (note that the beginnings of antisemitism in CHRISTIAN or SEMI-CHRISTIAN-PAGAN-Europe ARE NOT a recent phenomenom, but a rather very old one). The fact you would have even HINTED at trying to equate Islam's relatively benign tolerance of Judaism to Chirtianity's NEGATIVELY IMPRESSIVE record of anti-semitism/anti-judaism says a lot about you:

ANTI-JUDAISM: 70 TO 1200 CE

Persecution of Jews by Roman Pagans:
 70: The Roman Army destroyed Jerusalem, killed over 1 million Jews, took about 100,000 into slavery and captivity, and scattered many from Palestine to other locations in the Roman Empire.
 113: Jews in Cyprus, Cyrene, Egypt and Mesopotamia revolted against the Roman Empire. This caused "the death of several hundreds of thousands of Romans and Jews." 1  
 132: Bar Kochba led a hopeless three-year revolt against the Roman Empire. Many Jews had accepted him as the Messiah. About a half-million Jews were killed; thousands were sold into slavery or taken into captivity.  The rest were exiled from Palestine and scattered throughout the known world, adding to what is now called the "Diaspora." Judaism was no longer recognized as a legal religion. 2
 135: Serious Roman persecution of the Jews began. They were forbidden, upon pain of death, from practicing circumcision, reading the Torah, eating unleavened bread at Passover, etc. A temple dedicated to the Roman pagan god Jupiter was erected on temple mountain in Jerusalem. A temple of Venus was built on Golgotha, just outside the city.
 200: Roman Emperor Severus forbade religious conversions to Judaism.


Persecution of Jews by Christians:

Initial persecution of Jews was along religious lines. Persecution would cease if the person converted to Christianity.

 306: The church Synod of Elvira banned marriages, sexual intercourse and community contacts between Christians and Jews. 3,4
 315: Constantine published the Edict of Milan which extended religious tolerance to Christians. Jews lost many rights with this edict. They were no longer permitted to live in Jerusalem, or to proselytize.
 325: The Council of Nicea decided to separate the celebration of Easter from the Jewish Passover. They stated: "For it is unbecoming beyond measure that on this holiest of festivals we should follow the customs of the Jews. Henceforth let us have nothing in common with this odious people...We ought not, therefore, to have anything in common with the Jews...our worship follows a...more convenient course...we desire dearest brethren, to separate ourselves from the detestable company of the Jews...How, then, could we follow these Jews, who are almost certainly blinded."
 337: Christian Emperor Constantius created a law which made the marriage of a Jewish man to a Christian punishable by death.
 339: Converting to Judaism became a criminal offense.
 343-381: The Laodicean Synod approved Cannon XXXVIII: "It is not lawful [for Christians] to receive unleavened bread from the Jews, nor to be partakers of their impiety." 5
 367 - 376: St. Hilary of Poitiers referred to Jews as a perverse people who God has cursed forever. St. Ephroem refers to synagogues as brothels.
 379-395: Emperor Theodosius the Great permitted the destruction of synagogues if it served a religious purpose. Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire at this time.
 380: The bishop of Milan was responsible for the burning of a synagogue; he referred to it as "an act pleasing to God."
 415: The Bishop of Alexandria, St. Cyril, expelled the Jews from that Egyptian city.
 415: St. Augustine wrote "The true image of the Hebrew is Judas Iscariot, who sells the Lord for silver. The Jew can never understand the Scriptures and forever will bear the guilt for the death of Jesus."
 418: St. Jerome, who created the Vulgate translation of the Bible wrote of a synagogue: "If you call it a brothel, a den of vice, the Devil's refuge, Satan's fortress, a place to deprave the soul, an abyss of every conceivable disaster or whatever you will, you are still saying less than it deserves."
 489 - 519: Christian mobs destroyed the synagogues in Antioch, Daphne (near Antioch) and Ravenna.
 528: Emperor Justinian (527-564) passed the Justinian Code. It prohibited Jews from building synagogues, reading the Bible in Hebrew, assemble in public, celebrate Passover before Easter, and testify against Christians in court. 3
 535: The "Synod of Claremont decreed that Jews could not hold public office or have authority over Christians." 3
 538: The 3rd and 4th Councils of Orleans prohibited Jews from appearing in public during the Easter season. Canon XXX decreed that "From the Thursday before Easter for four days, Jews may not appear in the company of Christians." 5 Marriages between Christians and Jews were prohibited. Christians were prohibited from converting to Judaism. 4
 561: The bishop of Uzes expelled Jews from his diocese in France.
 612: Jews were not allowed to own land, to be farmers or enter certain trades.
 613: Very serious persecution began in Spain. Jews were given the options of either leaving Spain or converting to Christianity. Jewish children over 6 years of age were taken from their parents and given a Christian education
 692: Cannnon II of the Quinisext Council stated: "Let no one in the priestly order nor any layman eat the unleavened bread of the Jews, nor have any familiar intercourse with them, nor summon them in illness, nor receive medicines from them, nor bathe with them; but if anyone shall take in hand to do so, if he is a cleric, let him be deposed, but if a layman, let him be cut off." 5
 694: The 17th Church Council of Toledo, Spain defined Jews as the serfs of the prince. This was based, in part, on the beliefs by Chrysostom, Origen, Jerome, and other Church Fathers that God punished the Jews with perpetual slavery because of their responsibility for the execution of Jesus. 5
 722: Leo III outlawed Judaism. Jews were baptized against their will.
 855: Jews were exiled from Italy
 1050: The Synod of Narbonne prohibited Christians from living in the homes of Jews.
 1078: "Pope Gregory VII decreed that Jews could not hold office or be superiors to Christians." 6
 1078: The Synod of Gerona forced Jews to pay church taxes
 1096: The First Crusade was launched in this year. Although the prime goal of the crusades was to liberate Jerusalem from the Muslims, Jews were a second target. As the soldiers passed through Europe on the way to the Holy Land, large numbers of Jews were challenged: "Christ-killers, embrace the Cross or die!" 12,000 Jews in the Rhine Valley alone were killed in the first Crusade. This behavior continued for 8 additional crusades until the 9th in 1272.
 1099: The Crusaders forced all of the Jews of Jerusalem into a central synagogue and set it on fire. Those who tried to escape were forced back into the burning building.
 1121: Jews were exiled from Flanders (now part of present-day Belgium)
 1130: Some Jews in London allegedly killed a sick man. The Jewish people in the city were required to pay 1 million marks as compensation.
 1146: The Second Crusade began. A French Monk, Rudolf, called for the destruction of the Jews.
 1179: Canon 24 of the Third Lateran Council stated: "Jews should be slaves to Christians and at the same time treated kindly due of humanitarian considerations." Canon 26 stated that "the testimony of Christians against Jews is to be preferred in all causes where they use their own witnesses against Christians." 7
 1180: The French King of France, Philip Augustus, arbitrarily seized all Jewish property and expelled the Jews from the country. There was no legal justification for this action. They were allowed to sell all movable possessions, but their land and houses were stolen by the king.
 1189: Jews were persecuted in England. The Crown claimed all Jewish possessions. Most of their houses were burned.

Anti-Judaism: 1201 to 1800 CE

 1205: Pope Innocent III wrote to the archbishops of Sens and Paris that "the Jews, by their own guilt, are consigned to perpetual servitude because they crucified the Lord...As slaves rejected by God, in whose death they wickedly conspire, they shall by the effect of this very action, recognize themselves as the slaves of those whom Christ's death set free..."
 1215: The Fourth Lateran Council approved canon laws requiring that "Jews and Muslims shall wear a special dress." They also had to wear a badge in the form of a ring. This was to enable them to be easily distinguished from Christians. This practice later spread to other countries.
 1227:  The Synod of Narbonne required Jews to wear an oval badge. This requirement was reinstalled during the 1930's by Hitler, who changed the oval badge to a Star of David.
 1229: The Spanish inquisition starts. Later, in 1252, Pope Innocent IV authorizes the use of torture by the Inquisitors.
 1236: Pope Gregory ordered that church leaders in England, France, Portugal and Spain confiscate Jewish books on the first Saturday of Lent. 1
 1259: A "synod of the archdiocese in Mainz ordered Jews to wear yellow badges." 1
 1261: Duke Henry III of Brabant, Belgium, stated in his will that "Jews...must be expelled from Brabant and totally annihilated so that not a single one remains, except those who are willing to trade, like all other tradesmen, without money-lending and usury." 2
 1267: The Synod of Vienna ordered Jews to wear horned hats. Thomas Aquinas said that Jews should live in perpetual servitude.
 1290: Jews are exiled from England. About 16,000 left the country.
 1298: Jews were persecuted in Austria, Bavaria and Franconia. 140 Jewish communities were destroyed; more than 100,000 Jews were killed over a 6 month period.
 1306: 100,000 Jews are exiled from France. They left with only the clothes on their backs, and food for only one day.
 1320: 40,000 French shepherds went to Palestine on the Shepherd Crusade. On the way, 140 Jewish communities were destroyed.
 1321: In Guienne, France, Jews were accused of having incited criminals to poison wells. 5,000 Jews were burned alive, at the stake.
 1338: The councilors of Freiburg banned the performance of anti-Jewish scenes from the town's passion play because of the lethal bloody reactions against Jews which followed the performances. 9
 1347 +: The Black Death originated in the Far East. China, Mongolia, India, central Asia, and southern Russia have all been suggested as the source. 10 Mongol invaders brought it to Caffa in the Crimea (modern-day Fedodosiya). Defenders from the city later spread the disease throughout many Mediterranean ports. 11 Rats initially carried the Black Death; theyr fleas spread the disease from the rats to humans. As the plague worsened, the germs spread from human to human. In five years, the death toll had reached 25 million. In England, two centuries passed before its population levels recovered from the plague. People looked around for someone to blame. They noted that a smaller percentage of Jews than Christians caught the disease. This was undoubtedly due to the Jewish sanitary and dietary laws, which had been preserved from Old Testament times. Rumors circulated that Satan was protecting the Jews and that they were paying back the Devil by poisoning wells used by Christians. The solution was to torture, murder and burn the Jews. "In Bavaria...12,000 Jews...perished; in the small town of Erfurt...3,000; Rue Brulée...2,000 Jews; near Tours, an immense trench was dug, filled with blazing wood and in a single day 160 Jews were burned." 5 In Strausberg 2,000 Jews were burned. In Maintz 6,000 were killed...; in Worms 400..." 3
 1354: 12,000 Jews were executed in Toledo.
 1374: An epidemic of possession broke out in the lower Rhine region of what is now Germany. People were seen "dancing, jumping and [engaging in] wild raving." This was triggered by enthusiastic revels on St. John's Day - an Christianized version of an ancient Pagan seasonal day of celebration which was still observed by the populace. The epidemic spread throughout the Rhine and in much of the Netherlands and Germany. Crowds of 500 or more dancers would be overcome together. Exorcisms were tried, but failed. Pilgrimages to the shrine of St. Vitus were tried, but this only seemed to exacerbate the problem. Finally, the rumor spread that God was angry because Christians had been excessively tolerant towards the Jews. God had cursed Europe as He did Saul when he showed mercy towards God's enemies in the Old Testament. Jews "were plundered, tortured and murdered by tens of thousands." The epidemic finally burned itself out two centuries later, in the late 16th century. 4
 1391 : Jewish persecutions begin in Seville and in 70 other Jewish communities throughout Spain.
 1394 : Jews were exiled, for the second time, from France.
 1431 +: The Council of Basel "forbade Jews to go to universities, prohibited them from acting as agents in the conclusion of contracts between Christians, and required that they attend church sermons." 5
 1434: "Jewish men in Augsburg had to sew yellow buttons to their clothes. Across Europe, Jews were forced to wear a long undergarment, an overcoat with a yellow patch, bells and tall pointed yellow hats with a large button on them." 1
 1453 : The Franciscan monk, Capistrano, persuaded the King of Poland to terminate all Jewish civil rights.
 1478: Spanish Jews had been heavily persecuted from the 14th century. Many had converted to Christianity. The Spanish Inquisition was set up by the Church in order to detect insincere conversions. Laws were passed that prohibited the descendants of Jews or Muslims from attending university, joining religious orders, holding public office, or entering any of a long list of professions.
 1492 : Jews were given the choice of being baptized as Christians or be banished from Spain. 300,000 left Spain penniless. Many migrated to Turkey, where they found tolerance among the Muslims. Others converted to Christianity but often continued to practice Judaism in secret.
 1497: Jews were banished from Portugal. 20 thousand left the country rather than be baptized as Christians.
 1516: The Governor of the Republic of Venice decided that Jews would be permitted to live only in one area of the city. It was located in the South Girolamo parish and was called the "Ghetto Novo." This was the first ghetto in Europe. Hitler made use of the concept in the 1930's.
 1523: Martin Luther distributed his essay "That Jesus Was Born a Jew. " He hoped that large numbers of Jews would convert to Christianity. They didn't, and he began to write and preach hatred against them. Luther has been condemned in recent years for being extremely antisemitic. The charge has some merit; however he was probably typical of most Christians during his era.
 1539: A passion play was forbidden in Rome because it prompted violent attacks against the city's Jewish residents. 9
 1540: Jews were exiled from Naples.
 1543: In his 20's, Martin Luther, had expected Jews to convert to Christianity in large numbers. Distressed by their reluctance, he developed a hatred for Jews, as expressed in his letters to Rev. Spalatin in 1514, when he was 31 years of age. He wrote:

"I have come to the conclusion that the Jews will always curse and blaspheme God and his King Christ, as all the prophets have predicted....For they are thus given over by the wrath of God to reprobation, that they may become incorrigible, as Ecclesiastes says, for every one who is incorrigible is rendered worse rather than better by correction." 6

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2009, 09:19:52 AM »

In 1543, he wrote "On the Jews and their lies, On Shem Hamphoras" :

"...eject them forever from this country. For, as we have heard, God's anger with them is so intense that gentle mercy will only tend to make them worse and worse, while sharp mercy will reform them but little. Therefore, in any case, away with them!...What then shall we Christians do with this damned, rejected race of Jews?

 First, their synagogues or churches should be set on fire,...
 Secondly, their homes should likewise be broken down and destroyed... They ought to be put under one roof or in a stable, like Gypsies. 
 Thirdly, they should be deprived of their prayer books and Talmuds in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught.
 Fourthly, their rabbis must be forbidden under threat of death to teach any more...
 Fifthly, passport and traveling privileges should be absolutely forbidden to the Jews...
 Sixthly, they ought to be stopped from usury. All their cash and valuables of silver and gold ought to be taken from them and put aside for safe keeping...
 Seventhly, let the young and strong Jews and Jewesses be given the flail, the axe, the hoe, the spade, the distaff, and spindle and let them earn their bread by the sweat of their noses as in enjoined upon Adam's children...

To sum up, dear princes and nobles who have Jews in your domains, if this advice of mine does not suit you, then find a better one so that you and we may all be free of this insufferable devilish burden - the Jews." 7

 1550: Jews were exiled from Genoa and Venice.
 1555-JUL-12: A Roman Catholic Papal bull, "Cum nimis absurdum," required Jews to wear badges, and live in ghettos. They were not allowed to own property outside the ghetto. Living conditions were dreadful: over 3,000 people were forced to live in about 8 acres of land. Women had to wear a yellow veil or scarf; men had to wear a piece of yellow cloth on their hat. 8
 1582: Jews were expelled from Holland.
 1648-9: Chmielnicki Bogdan led an uprising against Polish rule in the Ukraine. The secondary goal of Bogdan and his followers was to exterminate all Jews in the country. The massacre began with the slaughter of about 6,000 Jews in Nemirov. Other major mass murders occurred in Tulchin, Polonnoye, Volhynia, Bar, Lvov, etc. Jewish records estimate that a total of 100,000 Jews were murdered and 300 communities destroyed.



Persecution of Jewish Physicians by the Church:
Medicine in Europe during the Middle Ages found itself restricted by the Christian Church. The church taught that it was irreligious to seek a natural cure from a physician when one could obtain supernatural help from a priest. Some church leaders criticized medical schools because they taught that diseases and disorders came from natural means and not from the evil efforts of Satan.

With medicine in such ill repute among Christians, much of the leadership by the 10th century was provided by Jews and Muslim scholars. Jews were largely responsible for founding the medical Schools at Salerno and Montpellier in the 10th century.

Pope Eugene IV, Nicholas V and Calixtus III forbade Christians from using the services of a Jewish physician. The Trullanean Council in the 8th century; Béziers Council & Alby Council in the 13th century; Avignon council & Salamanca Council in the 14th century,  the Synod of Bamberg in the 15th century; the Council of Avignon in the 16th century, etc. also ordered Christians to not seek healing from Jewish physicians and surgeons. This continued even into the 17th century when the city of Hall in Würtemberg (in what is now Germany) granted some privileges to a Jewish physician "on account of his admirable experience and skill." The clergy of Hall complained that "it were better to die with Christ than to be cured by a Jew doctor aided by the devil."

Anti-semitism: Racially-based persecution of Jews: 1800 to 1946


The conversion from religiously-based to racially-based persecution:
Prior to 1800 CE: Persecution was directed at followers of Judaism because of their religious beliefs; it has been referred to as anti-Judaism. CE, Jews could escape oppression by converting to Christianity, and being baptized. The Christian church taught in past centuries that all Jews (past, present and future) were responsible for Jesus' death. The Church also believed that some Jews must be allowed to live, because the biblical book of Revelation indicated that they had a role to play in the "end times." They concluded that it was acceptable to make Jews' lives quite miserable.

Since about 1800: "...Nationalism became a dominant value in the Western and Arab worlds...antisemitism increasingly focused on the Jews' peoplehood and nationhood." 15 Persecution became a form of racism, and has generally been called "anti-Semitism" -- a word "created by an antisemite, Wilhelm Marr [in 1879]. Marr's intention was to replace the German word Judenhass (Jew-hatred) with a term that would make Jew-haters sound less vulgar and even somewhat scientific." 15 The word, (variously spelled antisemite, anti-Semite and anti-semite). It is not a particularly good choice, because the root word "Semitic" refers to a group of languages, not to a single language or to a race, people or nation. However, it is in near-universal usage.


Antisemitism: Persecution of Jews along Racial Lines:
Subsequent attacks against Jews tended to be racially motivated. They were perpetrated primarily by the state. The Jewish people were viewed as a separate people or race.

 1806: A French Jesuit Priest, Abbe Barruel, had written a treatise blaming the Masonic Order for the French Revolution. He later issued a letter alleging that Jews, not the Masons were the guilty party. This triggered a belief in an international Jewish conspiracy in Germany, Poland and some other European countries later in the 19th century.
 1819: During the late 18th and early 19th centuries, many European Jews lobbied their governments for emancipation. They sought citizenship as well as the same rights and treatment as were enjoyed by non-Jews. This appears to have provoked sporadic anti-semites to engage in anti-Jewish violence. The rioters cried "Hep! Hep!." The origin(s) of this cry are not clear. Jews and their property were attacked first in Wuerzburg, Germany during 1819-AUG. The rioting spread across Germany and eventually reached as far as Denmark and Poland. 17
 1840: A rumor spread in Syria that some Jews were responsible for the ritual killing of a Roman Catholic monk and his servant. As a result of horrendous treatment, some local Jews confessed to a crime that they did not commit. This "Damascus Affair" spurred early Zionist writers like Hess to promote the Zionist cause. 17 More details.
 1846 - 1878: Pope Pius IX restored all of the previous restrictions against the Jews within the Vatican state. All Jews under Papal control were confined to Rome's ghetto - the last one in Europe until the Nazi era restored the church's practice. On 2000-SEP-3, Pope John Paul II beatified Pius IX; this is the last step before sainthood. He explained: "Beatifying a son of the church does not celebrate particular historic choices that he has made, but rather points him out for imitation and for veneration for his virtue."
 1858: Edgardo Mortara was kidnapped, at the age of six, from his Jewish family by Roman Catholic officials after they found out that a maid had secretly baptized him. He was not returned to his family but was raised a Catholic. He eventually became a priest. 
 1873: The term "antisemitism" is first used in a pamphlet by Wilhelm Marr called "Jewry's Victory over Teutonism."
 1881: Alexander II of Russia was assassinated by radicals. The Jews were blamed. About 200 individual pogroms against the Jews followed. ("Pogrom" is a Russian word meaning "devastation" or "riot." In Russia, a pogrom was typically a mob riot against Jewish individuals, shops, homes or businesses. They were often supported and even organized by the government.) Thousands of Jews became homeless and impoverished. The few who were charged with offenses generally received very light sentences. 1
 1893: "...anti-Semitic parties won sixteen seats in the German Reichstag." 2
 1894: Captain Alfred Dreyfus, an officer on the French general staff, was convicted of treason. The evidence against him consisted of a piece of paper from his wastebasket with another person's handwriting, and papers forged by antisemitic officers. He received a life sentence on Devil's Island, off the coast of South America. The French government was aware that a Major Esterhazy was actually guilty. 3 The church, government and army united to suppress the truth. Writer Emile Zola and politician Jean Jaurès fought for justice and human rights. After 10 years, the French government fell and Drefus was declared totally innocent. The Dreyfus Affair was world-wide news for years. It motivated Journalist Theodor Herzl to write a book in 1896: "The Jewish State: A Modern Solution to the Jewish Question." The book led to the founding of the Zionist movement which fought for a Jewish Homeland. A half century later, the state of Israel was born.
 1903: At Easter, government agents organized an anti-Jewish pogrom in Kishinev, Moldova, Russia. The local newspaper published a series of inflammatory articles. A Christian child was discovered murdered and a young Christian woman at the Jewish Hospital committed suicide. Jews were blamed for the deaths. Violence ensured. The 5,000 soldiers in the town did nothing. When the smoke cleared, 49 Jews had been killed, 500 were injured; 700 homes looted and destroyed, 600 businesses and shops looted, 2000 families left homeless. Later, it was discovered that the child had been murdered by its relatives and the suicide was unrelated to the Jews. 4
 1905: The Okhrana, the Russian secret police in the reign of Czar Nicholas II, converted an earlier antisemitic novel into a document called the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion." 16 It was published privately in 1897. A Russian Orthodox priest, Sergius Nilus, published them publicly  in 1905. It was promoted as the record of "secret rabbinical conferences whose aim was to subjugate and exterminate the Christians." 5 The Protocols were used by the Okhrana in a propaganda campaign that was associated with massacres of the Jews. These were the Czarist Pogroms of 1905.
 1915: 600,000 Jews were forcibly moved from the western borders of Russia towards the interior. About 100,000 died of exposure or starvation.
 1917: "In the civil war following the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917, the reactionary White Armies made extensive use of the Protocols to incite widespread slaughters of Jews." 5  Two hundred thousand Jews were murdered in the Ukraine alone.
 1920: The Protocols reach England and the United States. They are exposed as a forgery, but are widely circulated. Henry Ford sponsored a study of international activities of Jews. This led to a series of antisemitic articles in the Dearborn Independent, which were published in a book, "The International Jew." The Protocols were sold on Wal-Mart's online bookstore until they were removed on 2004-SEP-21.
 1920: The defeat of Germany in World War I and the continuing economic difficulties were blamed in that country on the "Jewish influence." One antisemitic poster has been preserved from that era. 6 It shows a German, presumably Christian woman, a male Jew with distorted facial features, a coffin and the word "Deutschland" (Germany)
 1920's, 1930's: Hitler had published in Mein Kampf in 1925, writing: "Today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." The Protocols are used by the Nazis  to whip up public hatred of the Jews  in the 1930's. Widespread pogroms occur in Greece, Hungary, Mexico, Poland, Rumania, and the USSR. Radio programs by many conservative American clergy, both Roman Catholic and Protestant, frequently attacked Jews. Reverend Fr. Charles E Coughlin was one of the best known. "In the 1930's, radio audiences heard him rail against the threat of Jews to America's economy and defend Hitler's treatment of Jews as justified in the fight against communism." (12) Other conservative Christian leaders, such as Frank Norris and John Straton supported the Jews. 7
Discrimination against Jews in North America is widespread. Many universities set limits on the maximum number of Jewish students that they would accept. Harvard accepted all students on the basis of merit until after World War I when the percentage of Jewish students approached 15%. At that time they installed an informal quota system. In 1941, Princeton had fewer than 2% Jews in their student body. Jews were routinely barred from country clubs, prestigious neighborhoods, etc. 8
 
 1933: Hitler took power in Germany. On APR-1, Julius Streicher organized a one-day boycott of all Jewish owned busienss in the country. This was the start of continuous oppression by the Nazis culminating in the Holocaust (a.k.a. Shoah). Jews "were barred from civil service, legal professions and universities, were not allowed to teach in schools and could not be editors of newspapers." 2 Two years later, Jews were no longer considered citizens.
 1934: Various laws were enacted in Germany to force Jews out of schools and professions.
 1935: The Nazis passed the Nuremberg Laws restricting citizenship to those of "German or related blood." Jews became stateless.
 1936: Cardinal Hloud of Poland urged Catholics to boycott Jewish businesses.
 1938: On NOV-9, the Nazi government in Germany sent storm troopers, the SS and the Hitler Youth on a pogrom that killed 91 Jews, injured hundreds, burned 177 synagogues and looted 7,500 Jewish stores. Broken glass could be seen everywhere; the glass gave this event its name of Kristallnacht, the Night of Broken Glass. 9
 1938: Hitler brought back century-old church law, ordering all Jews to wear a yellow Star of David as identification. A few hundred thousand Jews are allowed to leave Germany after they give all of their assets to the government.
 1939: The Holocaust, the Shoah -- the systematic extermination of Jews in Germany -- begins. The process only ended in 1945 with the conclusion of World War II. Approximately 6 million Jews (1.5 million of them children), 400 thousand Roma (Gypsies) and others were slaughtered. Some were killed by death squads; others were slowly killed in trucks with carbon monoxide; others were gassed in large groups in Auschwitz, Dacau, Sobibor, Treblinka and other extermination camps. Officially, the holocaust was described by the Nazis as subjecting Jews "to special treatment" or as a "solution of the Jewish question." Gold taken from the teeth of the victims was recycled; hair was used in the manufacture of mattresses. In the Buchenwald extermination camp, lampshades were made out of human skin; however, this appears to be an isolated incident. A rumor spread that Jewish corpses were routinely converted into soap. However, the story appears to be false. 10 
 1940: The Vichy government of France collaborated with Nazi Germany by freezing about 80,000 Jewish bank accounts. During the next four years, they deported about 76,000 Jews to Nazi death camps; only about 2,500 survived. It was only in 1995 that a French president, Jacques Chirac, "was able to admit that the state bore a heavy share of responsibility in the mass round-ups and deportations of Jews, as well as in the property and asset seizures that were carried out with the active help of the Vichy regime." 11
 1941: The Holocaust Museum in Washington DC estimates that 13,000 Jews died on 1941-JUN-19 during a pogrom in Bucharest, Romania. It was ordered by the pro-Nazi Romanian regime of Marshal Ion Antonescu. The current government has admitted that this atrocity happened, but most Romanians continue to deny that the Jews were killed on orders from their own government. 12
 1941: Polish citizens in Jedwabne in northeastern Poland killed hundreds of Jews, by either beating them to death or burning them alive in a barn. According to the Associated Press: "The role played by Polish citizens was suppressed for nearly six decades until publication of a book by a Polish emigre historian, Jan Tomasz Gross. After release of the book in 2000, the Polish government launched an investigation. 'The role of the Poles was decisive in conducting the criminal act,' [prosecutor Radoslaw] Ignatiew, said. The book, 'Neighbours,' sparked national soul-searching among Poles, many of whom could not believe that anybody but the Nazis would have committed the atrocity." 13
 1942: The Nazi leaders of Germany, at the Wannsee conference, decided on"the final solution of the Jewish question" which was the attempt to exterminate every Jew in Europe. From JUL-28 to 31, almost 18,000 Russian inhabitants of the Minsk ghetto in what is now Belarus were exterminated. This was in addition to 5,000 to 15,000 who had been massacred in earlier pogroms in that city. This was just one of many such pogroms during World War II. 14
 1945: The Shoah (Holocaust) ended as the Allied Forces over-ran the Nazi death camps.
 1946: Even though World War II ended the year before, antisemitic pogroms continued, particularly in Poland, with the deaths of many Jews.

IFBBwannaB

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2009, 10:01:17 AM »
Slapper you should call yourself spammer, damn man...damn.

Slapper

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2009, 10:31:01 AM »
Slapper you should call yourself spammer, damn man...damn.

Just watching out for my Muslim and Jewish brothers dude.

Jews and Muslims got along for 99.99% of human existance. Don't let some Jewish or Muslim nazis destroy a mutual tolerance that has lasted thousands of years.

loco

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2009, 01:38:00 PM »
Slapper,
None of all that stuff you posted answers my question at all.

You said that the Bible has the same rhetoric as this:

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Now, I'll ask you again.  Where exactly in the Bible is this same rhetoric?  Where does the Bible say that the end of the world won't come until Muslims kill all Jews...or for that matter, until Jews kill all Muslims?

It's a simple question.

flagadajones

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #45 on: January 11, 2009, 01:44:37 PM »
once all ennemies have been killed, there is no enemy anymore.

That's why the surge worked in iraq, and that's why the surge in gaza will also work.

And that's why the surge in afghanistan will work, period.




Slapper

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #46 on: January 11, 2009, 02:17:35 PM »
Slapper,
None of all that stuff you posted answers my question at all.

You said that the Bible has the same rhetoric as this:

Now, I'll ask you again.  Where exactly in the Bible is this same rhetoric?  Where does the Bible say that the end of the world won't come until Muslims kill all Jews...or for that matter, until Jews kill all Muslims?

It's a simple question.

That is the stupidest counterargument I've read in many years.

I posted it and you didn't even read it!

Deuteronomy 7:1-2

When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

20:10-17 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.


What in the fucking world do you think the Bible is talking about when they say things like "[...]do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them[...]" or "[...]then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy[...]"? Or, is your "beef" with the fact that the Bible does not specify exactly that Christians must hate Jews? Because that is your argument then turn off the lights and let's get the fuck outta here buddy.

I presume the Bible insinuating that all non-Christians must die doesn't apply as a response. Hate to break it to ya, but the last I checked Muslims and Jews applied as "non-Christians".

I guess the fact that every statue of Moses in every church/cathedral in Europe having the devil's horns is just another example of Christians loving Jews.

Now, answer my question, how many (Jewish) holocausts took place is Muslim lands?

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #47 on: January 11, 2009, 02:39:16 PM »
both the bible and the koran were written by human beings

get over it
Valhalla awaits.

Slapper

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #48 on: January 11, 2009, 03:03:36 PM »
both the bible and the koran were written by human beings

get over it

Loved your "bomb"!

 ;D ;D ;D

loco

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Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2009, 04:44:44 PM »
That is the stupidest counterargument I've read in many years.

I posted it and you didn't even read it!

Deuteronomy 7:1-2

When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

20:10-17 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.


What in the fucking world do you think the Bible is talking about when they say things like "[...]do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them[...]" or "[...]then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy[...]"? Or, is your "beef" with the fact that the Bible does not specify exactly that Christians must hate Jews? Because that is your argument then turn off the lights and let's get the fuck outta here buddy.

I presume the Bible insinuating that all non-Christians must die doesn't apply as a response. Hate to break it to ya, but the last I checked Muslims and Jews applied as "non-Christians".

I guess the fact that every statue of Moses in every church/cathedral in Europe having the devil's horns is just another example of Christians loving Jews.

Now, answer my question, how many (Jewish) holocausts took place is Muslim lands?

There were Muslims and Christians when Deuteronomy was written, or at the time of the events written about in Deuteronomy? 

You're just playing.  You're not that ignorant, are you?