Obama wants to recover $170 Bil in AIG bonuses

[240 is Back]

Is he right or wrong?


If these bonuses were written into the bill AFTER the bailout, it he right or wrong to go after the $?

[Bindare_Dundat]

Is he right or wrong?


If these bonuses were written into the bill AFTER the bailout, it he right or wrong to go after the $?

This would be a non issue if THEY NEVER RECIEVED THE MONEY IN THE FIRST PLACE.

[Dan-O]

Nobody deserves a bonus for running a company into bankruptcy.  That's a no-brainer.  A bonus is for good management, not a big fat paycheck you arbitrarily give yourself.  What complete bullshit.  They should consider themselves lucky to even have their jobs--but a bonus???!?  Greedy fuckers.  There's few things that piss me off more than pure unmitigated greed.

Translation--a) Bindare is right, they never should've gotten the money in their filthy greedy hands in the first place, but now that it's too late for that, b) I'm 100% in agreement with Obama that they don't deserve one penny of those bonuses.

[gordiano]

Nobody deserves a bonus for running a company into bankruptcy.  That's a no-brainer.  They should consider themselves lucky to even have their jobs--but a bonus???!?  Greedy fuckers.  There's few things that piss me off more than pure unmitigated greed.

Agreed.

[Soul Crusher]

Is he right or wrong?


If these bonuses were written into the bill AFTER the bailout, it he right or wrong to go after the $?

Yes, I agree that bonuses should never have been given out by AIG.

BUT BUT BUT

You cant pass laws after the fact against only specific people.  Its illegal, unconstitutional, and will have horrible ramifications in the future.

[240 is Back]

Yes, I agree that bonuses should never have been given out by AIG.

BUT BUT BUT

You cant pass laws after the fact against only specific people.  Its illegal, unconstitutional, and will have horrible ramifications in the future.

IF they're taking 160 BILLION of handouts to stay in business, then YES, you can tie any restrictions you want to that money.

My bank can tell me they'll lend me $200k for my home, but that I have to do 20 naked pushups on my lawn every morning. 

If I don't like the terms, I can find another lender, or not take the money.




AIG is taking our money, and you're defending them because Obama wants to add some strict limits on how much of that free money they can put in their own bank accounts?  I'm all for capitalism, but the moment you accept 160 BILLION dollars of taxpayer cash, you've abandoned the tenets of capitalism and embraced socialism.  So you're gonna get a socialist paycheck with that.

[Soul Crusher]

IF they're taking 160 BILLION of handouts to stay in business, then YES, you can tie any restrictions you want to that money.

My bank can tell me they'll lend me $200k for my home, but that I have to do 20 naked pushups on my lawn every morning. 

If I don't like the terms, I can find another lender, or not take the money.




AIG is taking our money, and you're defending them because Obama wants to add some strict limits on how much of that free money they can put in their own bank accounts?  I'm all for capitalism, but the moment you accept 160 BILLION dollars of taxpayer cash, you've abandoned the tenets of capitalism and embraced socialism.  So you're gonna get a socialist paycheck with that.

You did not hear me, they should never be able to give out these bonuses as a condition of taking the money in the first place. 

However, since there are no provisions for this in the aide that is given, AIG is free to do this, even though it is immoral and wrong.

This is the politicians' fault for giving all this money with no strings attached.

[Hedgehog]

I totally disagree with you 333666.


Here's a situation where the politicians, and Obama especially, needs to grow some balls.

They cannot just accept this bullshit spewed by AIG.

If you're the president of the USA, you gotta be prepared to step on some toes.

Ie, to make an omelett you need to crack some eggs.

And this time Obama needs to crack some AIG bonus horny employees eggs.

Because that money does not belong to them.

It's the bailout money that the tax payers put up in order to save the AIG bank - the place where the AIG employees work.

And now the employees have the nerve to ask for even more?

That's fcuking absurd.


Obama has to grow a pair and step up. If he doesn't, I will be very disappointed.

[MCWAY]

You did not hear me, they should never be able to give out these bonuses as a condition of taking the money in the first place. 

However, since there are no provisions for this in the aide that is given, AIG is free to do this, even though it is immoral and wrong.

This is the politicians' fault for giving all this money with no strings attached.

According to Fox News, the CEO claims that his predecessor penned the contracts for the employees to get these bonuses. Therefore, he can’t void them and he has to pay them out.

I totally disagree with you 333666.


Here's a situation where the politicians, and Obama especially, needs to grow some balls.

They cannot just accept this bullshit spewed by AIG.

If you're the president of the USA, you gotta be prepared to step on some toes.

Ie, to make an omelett you need to crack some eggs.

And this time Obama needs to crack some AIG bonus horny employees eggs.

Because that money does not belong to them.

Yes, it does!!! That's what happens when you GIVE a floundering company $160 billion.

It's the bailout money that the tax payers put up in order to save the AIG bank - the place where the AIG employees work.

And now the employees have the nerve to ask for even more?

That's fcuking absurd.

If Obama is stupid enough to keep giving AIG the money, can you blame the banks for taking it?

Obama has to grow a pair and step up. If he doesn't, I will be very disappointed.

Then, you may as well get the Kleenex out now. Based on his brief but unimpressive track record, all he's going to do is stand/sit around his staff, look statesmanly, and remind everyone (for the nth time) that he inherited a recession, that it ain't his fault, etc.

[Hedgehog]

According to Fox News, the CEO claims that his predecessor penned the contracts for the employees to get these bonuses. Therefore, he can’t void them and he has to pay them out.

Yes, it does!!! That's what happens when you GIVE a floundering company $160 billion.

If Obama is stupid enough to keep giving AIG the money, can you blame the banks for taking it?

Then, you may as well get the Kleenex out now. Based on his brief but unimpressive track record, all he's going to do is stand/sit around his staff, look statesmanly, and remind everyone (for the nth time) that he inherited a recession, that it ain't his fault, etc.

Do you want Obama to recover the AIG bonuses?

[Soul Crusher]

Do you want Obama to recover the AIG bonuses?

Its not going to happen.  This is pure political bs.  The money already went out to the recipients. 

Those people will successfully defend themselves in court if Obama tries to take back the money since those employees had a contract.

Yes it stinks, yes it is immoral, yes it sucks, but that is what happens when you give money to drug addicts and alcoholics. 

They do what you know they will do, buy booze and drugs.

 

[Butterbean]

Were there no stipulations on the given money before it was given?

[Soul Crusher]

Were there no stipulations on the given money before it was given?

No.  The govt did not put any stipulations.  And yes, what AIG did was immoral, but not illegal. 

I blame the politicians like Obama/Bernake/Geithner for this, not AIG.

They gave them the money and did not demand conditions.

[Dan-O]

Hahahaha, now Charles Grassley (R, IA) is suggesting the AIG execs should resign or do the honorable thing and kill themselves.  I love it.

http://enews.earthlink.net/article/nat?guid=20090317/49bf2e50_3ca6_1552620090317590776221

Senator suggests AIG execs should kill themselves
By NIGEL DUARA (Associated Press Writer)
From Associated Press
March 17, 2009 8:17 AM EDT

IOWA CITY, Iowa - Iowa Sen. Charles Grassley suggested on Monday that AIG executives should take a Japanese approach toward accepting responsibility for the collapse of the insurance giant by resigning or killing themselves.

The Republican lawmaker's harsh comments came during an interview with Cedar Rapids, Iowa, radio station WMT. They echo remarks he has made in the past about corporate executives and public apologies, but went further in suggesting suicide.

"I suggest, you know, obviously, maybe they ought to be removed," Grassley said. "But I would suggest the first thing that would make me feel a little bit better toward them if they'd follow the Japanese example and come before the American people and take that deep bow and say, I'm sorry, and then either do one of two things: resign or go commit suicide.

"And in the case of the Japanese, they usually commit suicide before they make any apology."

Grassley spokesman Casey Mills said the senator isn't calling for AIG executives to kill themselves, but said those who accept tax dollars and spend them on travel and bonuses do so irresponsibly.

"Senator Grassley has said for some time now that generally speaking, executives who make a mess of their companies should apologize, as Japanese executives do," Mills said. "He says the Japanese might even go so far as to commit suicide but he doesn't want U.S. executives to do that."

The senator's remarks added to a chorus of public outrage over the disclosure that AIG intends to pay its executives $165 million in bonuses after t aking billions in federal bailout money. President Barack Obama lambasted the insurance giant for "recklessness and greed" on Monday and pledged to try to block payment of the bonuses.

[Grape Ape]

No.  The govt did not put any stipulations.  And yes, what AIG did was immoral, but not illegal. 

I blame the politicians like Obama/Bernake/Geithner for this, not AIG.

They gave them the money and did not demand conditions.

Exactly.  Obama told everyone that this had to be pushed through immediately or the sky would fall.  He gave money to AIG to be able to continue operations, and continue operations they did.

Blame those who wrote the bill with no provisions for this, and Obama for pushing it through quick.

Yes, it sucks, and isn't right, but it's their own fault.  Obama won't be too mad anyway, because he was just given another platform to grandstand against the evil rich people again.

[Butterbean]

Hahahaha, now Charles Grassley (R, IA) is suggesting the AIG execs should resign or do the honorable thing and kill themselves.  I love it.

I think that guy posts here

[MCWAY]

Do you want Obama to recover the AIG bonuses?

What I want is of no account. The simple fact is AIG folks can do what they want with what NOW belongs to them, thanks to the President.

33386 is right; the fault lies squarely with Obama. He knew this company was living foul. He knew the American people DID NOT want this bailout stuff. And, he knew the bailout wouldn’t work.

Yet, he authorized Geithner (“Turbo Tax Timmy”, as Sean Hannity likes to call him) to give them the loot.

Spending money on dopey entities that fail miserably seems to be the Prez’s MO, as of late. He’s working to give the Detroit public school system (in which only about a third of its students graduate) some $500+ billion. And, this is despite the fact that, they have $54 billion unaccounted for.

[Soul Crusher]

What I want is of no account. The simple fact is AIG folks can do what they want with what NOW belongs to them, thanks to the President.

33386 is right; the fault lies squarely with Obama. He knew this company was living foul. He knew the American people DID NOT want this bailout stuff. And, he knew the bailout wouldn’t work.

Yet, he authorized Geithner (“Turbo Tax Timmy”, as Sean Hannity likes to call him) to give them the loot.

Spending money on dopey entities that fail miserably seems to be the Prez’s MO, as of late. He’s working to give the Detroit public school system (in which only about a third of its students graduate) some $500+ billion. And, this is despite the fact that, they have $54 billion unaccounted for.

This is no different than giving an alcoholic money and expecting him to buy food with the $$$$.  Shame on the fool who gave the money, not the crunk.

[Hedgehog]

Were there no stipulations on the given money before it was given?

I think the government received some prefered shares in return, but that's not enough.
I called for a total take over in november and I stand by it.
USA should've used the Swedish model from day one.
Now they will probably do anyway in the end.
but now lots of money have already gone to waste.
Look for the upcoming congressional hearing with the then minister in charge Bo Lundgren on Thursday. 

[Dan-O]

"Shoot first, ask questions later" seems to be our Prez's modus operandi.

I wonder how many more times he's gonna try to make up the rules as he goes.

I agree again that they never should've gotten the money in the first place.  It didn't take an economics genius to see that it was just gonna get flushed down the drain.  3333's alcoholic analogy is very fitting in this scenario.  But I also agree--once you've flushed that money down the drain, however undeserving they may be, it's gone, it's out of your hands, bye-bye.

Why would the gov't expect AIG to all of a sudden be fiscally responsible when they've already shown that they weren't?  Obama called them reckless and greedy but then he went ahead and gave them even more money anyway.  How smart was that?

Check this out from our old buddy Harry Reid:

http://enews.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20090317/49bf2e50_3ca6_1552620090317135474170

Reid: Congress intends to retrieve some AIG money
By LAURIE KELLMAN (Associated Press Writer)
From Associated Press
March 17, 2009 11:46 AM EDT

WASHINGTON - Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid said Tuesday Congress will force executives of American International Group to pay back at least some of the $165 million in bonuses they received after the insurance giant got billions in federal bailout money.

It's unclear how that would be done, but Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus suggested imposing an excise tax on the AIG bonuses. "What is the highest excise tax we can impose that will stand up in court?" Baucus asked. "Let's find out what it is."

The latest jockeying came amid mounting criticism of the bonuses and after the Obama administration said it wanted to put strict limits on how future government bailout dollars can be used. That didn't stop sharp questions about what the administration knew about the bonuses - and when.

Sen. Richard Shelby, the ranking Republican on the Senate Banking Committee, chastised the administration earlier Tuesday, saying Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner should have blocked the payouts. Shelby charged that Geithner either knew or should have known about the bonuses.

"We need to know, what are the details of this? When were the bonuses signed up? Who's getting it?" Shelby said.

The Alabama senator stopped short of calling for Geithner's resignation, but said, "He's under fire from all sides now."

"I don't know if he should resign over this," Shelby said. "He works for the president of the United States. But I can tell you, this is just another example of where he seems to be out of the loop. Treasury should have let the American people know about this."

AIG was predictably raked over the coals at a banking committee hearing on regulating the insurance industry.

"One way or another, we're going to try to figure out how to get these resources back," said Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., the panel's chairman.

"This is ridiculous," exclaimed Sen. Jon Tester, D-Mont. He said AIG executives "need to understand that the only reason they even have a job is because of the taxpayers."

Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan., said that any AIG executive who received a bonus should return it or be fired.

"I am outraged at the news that AIG, a company that has taken so much taxpayer money in the form of bailouts, is now paying out hundreds of millions of dollars in executive bonuses," Brownback said. "I will do everything I can to see that AIG returns its bonus money to taxpayers."

Edward Liddy, the CEO of American International Group Inc., is scheduled to testify Thursday before a House subcommittee.

AIG is not alone in the controversy, however.

Earlier this month, Sen. Robert Menendez, D-N.J., a member of the Senate banking committee, sent a letter to Geithner urging him to investigate bonuses reportedly planned by Morgan Stanley and Citigroup's Smith Barney as well as deferred guaranteed bonuses being considered by Bank of America.

Morgan Stanley's joint brokerage venture with Citigroup was reportedly planning to pay its brokers up to $3 billion in retention bonuses to keep them from jumping to other firms. Wells Fargo & Co., however, decided not to make such retention payments to Wachovia Corp.'s brokers. Wells Fargo acquired Wachovia in December.

"Awarding excessive bonuses to executives who have driven their companies to the brink of collapse would seem to be fundamentally backwards," Menendez wrote. "Using taxpayer funds to make these payments would be offensive and illegal."

The financial bailout program remains politically unpopular and has been a drag on Obama's new presidency, even though the plan began under his predecessor, President George W. Bush. The White House is aware of the nation's bailout fatigue; hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars have gone to prop up financial institutions that made poor decisions, while many others who have done no wrong have paid the price.

President Barack Obama has lambasted the insurance giant for "recklessness and greed" and pledged to try to block payment of the bonuses. Obama said he had directed Geithner to determine whether there was any way to retrieve or stop the bonus money - a move designed as much for public relations as for public policy.

New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo said he has issued subpoenas for the names of AIG employees given bonuses despite their possible roles in its near-collapse. Cuomo said his office will investigate whether the bonus payments are fraudulent under state law because they were promised when the company knew it wouldn't have the money to cover them. AIG reported this month that it lost $61.7 billion in the fourth quarter of last year, the largest corporate loss in history, and it has benefited from more than $170 billion in a federal rescue.

---

Associated Press Writers Jim Kuhnhenn and Deb Riechmann contributed to this story.

[BM OUT]

Chris Dodd,who now screams about "getting the money back" ,put in a provision exempting any limitations on the bonus money.HE put it in there and now he wants the money back.

Now,if we are going to take money back from failures getting government money,lets get otraged that Pelosi and her band of nitwits voted themselves permanent pay raises.They also added in that their "expense accounts " would get boosted by another 90,000 a year.Now,if there is a group of people getting money from the government for failing ,its the congress.

AIG announced these bonus payouts a year ago.The congress knew the entire time and DID NOTHING.Now,they act outraged.The democrats love inventing strawmen to take our eyes off of Obamas socialism.First it was Rush,now its AIG and next week it will be someone else.

[240 is Back]

The democrats love inventing strawmen to take our eyes off of Obamas socialism.First it was Rush,now its AIG and next week it will be someone else.

Why do you suppose FOX NEWS is playing right along with MSNBC and CNN, talking about these trivial distraction issues as well?

Are they also 'in on it', in bed with the lib lie machine?

[Soul Crusher]

Why do you suppose FOX NEWS is playing right along with MSNBC and CNN, talking about these trivial distraction issues as well?

Are they also 'in on it', in bed with the lib lie machine?

Cable news is worthless. 

Like i keep saying, internet video and talk radio is where the action is.

[BM OUT]

Why do you suppose FOX NEWS is playing right along with MSNBC and CNN, talking about these trivial distraction issues as well?

Are they also 'in on it', in bed with the lib lie machine?

They will come around in a few days after they realise they have been played for fools.

[Dos Equis]

Yes, I agree that bonuses should never have been given out by AIG.

BUT BUT BUT

You cant pass laws after the fact against only specific people.  Its illegal, unconstitutional, and will have horrible ramifications in the future.

I pretty much agree.  The genie is out of the bottle. 

I don't really know enough about the bonuses to say whether or not they were deserved.  It's definitely possible for one or more employees of a failing or badly run company to have excellent performance.  And if bonuses are based on past excellent performance, then I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with them.  Don't know if that's the case here.