US Religious Right Concedes Defeat

[OzmO]

Look at it this way,  secular society was and is perfectly fine allowing freedom of religious expression.   It's the religious right who has the problem with the rest of the country not adopting their beliefs.   

So true.

[Straw Man]

The religious right has a lot in common with the irreligious left; they both want to run your lives; thank Zeus for LIBERTARIANISM.

I see the religious right wanting to control and restrict my life (my = everyone)

I'm not aware of any cohesive group of the "irreligious left"

[big L dawg]

Where does this moralizing end from both sides???

The far left and religious right just cant stop.  They cant leave people alone.  Its like an addiction they have to telling everyone what do and how to live all the time.  

Its sickening.

Stay out of my bedroom
Stay out of my wallet
Stay out of Ipod
Stay out of car


There seems to be no end to these people trying to tell everyone what to do, how to live, what to buy, what to sell, what to watch, what to eat, what to read, what to listen to, who to marry, what guns I can and cant buy, etc etc.

    

[MCWAY]

yes the "culture war" exists mostly inside the skulls of the religious right who feel that what they value is somehow being attacked. 

I'm sorry!! I wasn't aware that all the heart attacks that atheists have every December, when they see a Nativity scene, happened merely inside people's skulls.

The majority of secular society (even those that are religious or spiritual) just don't give a shit.....at least not beyond the fact that we have to deal with religious wack jobs who are trying to impose their values on the rest of society.

Look at it this way,  secular society was and is perfectly fine allowing freedom of religious expression.   It's the religious right who has the problem with the rest of the country not adopting their beliefs.   

Is that right??

Tell that to the guy, filing a frivolous lawsuit, blubbering about having his "religious freedom" violated at at baseball game, when security asked that he remained seated, during the singing of "God Bless America".

Then, there's the case at the College of Alameda, where a student is facing SUSPENSION for the horrific crime of praying for (and with) his sick professor, to the grief of another professor.  I guess that's just in the skulls, too.  .

On top of that, who is it, trying to impose gay "marriage" via the courts, after the "REST OF SOCIETY" (i.e. the at-least 51% of the people) already voted to have marriage defined as a union between a man and a woman?

[tu_holmes]

I'm sorry!! I wasn't aware that all the heart attacks that atheists have every December, when they see a Nativity scene, happened merely inside people's skulls.

Is that right??

It actually is in your their skulls...  Most non religious people still follow the Holidays as a time of joy and happiness... especially those that have children.

Very very few people give a shit about the nativity scene if they aren't religious.

[MCWAY]

It actually is in your their skulls...  Most non religious people still follow the Holidays as a time of joy and happiness... especially those that have children.

Very very few people give a shit about the nativity scene if they aren't religious.

Again, tell that to some of these atheists filing bone-headed lawsuits about them. I refer you to what went down JUST LAST YEAR in Washington state. They're the one obsessing about someone that they (or a handful of them) don't believe to exist.

[Howard]

Contrary to what you may think, I am against religion influencing politics by and large.

Whether it be democrats who pimp pimp the black churches or the right pimping those mega churches out west, its wrong and stupid. 

Well said!

[MCWAY]

Well said!

I call that the standard, "Praise the Lord and vote for me" routine.

I don't have a problem with that all, by Dems or Republicans, although it would be nice if the ACLU would quit blubbering about GOP candidates visiting certain churches while leaving Dem candiates relatively unscathed.

Policy is about laws, about right and wrong. And your religious beliefs (or lack thereof) help shape what you view as right or wrong.

As Dr. King once said, the church should not be the master not the slave of the state, but its conscience. With that said, Dr. King's religious beliefs helped mold the black civil rights movement, which had a HUGE influence on public policy.

By Straw Man's warped standards, Dr. King (one of America's greatest champions of civil rights and liberties) was a "religious whack job".

[bears]

i think its true that religion as we know it is on its way out.  it is being replaced with political affiliation.  it is only called political affiliation because people are afraid to call it what it really is, RELIGIOUS faith in a political party.  that is why there were people sobbing at obamas inauguration.  that is why there are people on political message boards blasting eachother on a daily basis over eachother's opinions about the honor, character, and integrity of politicians that they have never met.  same thing.  different package.  you all might wanna thnk about that before you blast someone for their religious beliefs on a political message board. 

[MCWAY]

I see the religious right wanting to control and restrict my life (my = everyone)

I'm not aware of any cohesive group of the "irreligious left"

Actually, they’re known more as the “liberal left. But, as one pundit puts it, “The only thing they are liberal about is hard drugs and sex. In every other respect, they want to control your lives.”

[Deicide]

Actually, they’re known more as the “liberal left. But, as one pundit puts it, “The only thing they are liberal about is hard drugs and sex. In every other respect, they want to control your lives.”

You guys are worse.

[tu_holmes]

Again, tell that to some of these atheists filing bone-headed lawsuits about them. I refer you to what went down JUST LAST YEAR in Washington state. They're the one obsessing about someone that they (or a handful of them) don't believe to exist.

You mean where one person made something an issue? It is hardly indicative of Atheism... Most atheists really don't give a shit.

[Straw Man]

I'm sorry!! I wasn't aware that all the heart attacks that atheists have every December, when they see a Nativity scene, happened merely inside people's skulls.

Is that right??

Tell that to the guy, filing a frivolous lawsuit, blubbering about having his "religious freedom" violated at at baseball game, when security asked that he remained seated, during the singing of "God Bless America".

Then, there's the case at the College of Alameda, where a student is facing SUSPENSION for the horrific crime of praying for (and with) his sick professor, to the grief of another professor.  I guess that's just in the skulls, too.  .

On top of that, who is it, trying to impose gay "marriage" via the courts, after the "REST OF SOCIETY" (i.e. the at-least 51% of the people) already voted to have marriage defined as a union between a man and a woman?

so in your first example you're saying a guy is filing a frivolous lawsuit because he wanted to stand up during God Bless America and someone stopped him?

In the second example a guy wants to "pray"..and he got suspended from school?

and then "WHO" is trying to impose gay marriage?

Are these events related? 

Do you have some specific point?

[MCWAY]

You mean where one person made something an issue? It is hardly indicative of Atheism... Most atheists really don't give a shit.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that the aforementioned example was exhaustive.

[tu_holmes]

I'm not sure where you get the idea that the aforementioned example was exhaustive.

Those that care too much about the issue (a nativity scene) on both sides are in the minority.

[MCWAY]

so in your first example you're saying a guy is filing a frivolous lawsuit because he wanted to stand up during God Bless America and someone stopped him?

In the second example a guy wants to "pray"..and he got suspended from school?

and then "WHO" is trying to impose gay marriage?

Are these events related? 

Do you have some specific point?

Of course (your repeatedly missing the point hardly means that I lack one)!!! Your claim that the culture wars exist mainly in the heads of the "religious right" is patently false. The fact that a college student can be threatened with suspension from school, simply for praying for his professor (along with the other cases I mentioned) shatters that quip of yours.

That particular case is now going to a California court. Why don't you tell the judge that "it's just their heads"?

[The Coach]

As I have stated, being religious is dying out among mainstream America. 

What a rediculous statement. Either you believe or or you don't. It's only what the mainstream media wants to propagandize and want's you to believe. The "mainstream" can spew whatever they like, but your not in a million years going to tell a true Christian believer that "religion is dying". It's personal choice anything more is public perception.

[MCWAY]

I accidentally put this on the wrong thread.......

Here's a follow-up that College of Alameda story. The school is trying to get a case thrown out of court. Two students are suing the school for threatening to suspend them, simply because one of them was praying for and with a sick professor. And guess what time of year this incident started......CHRISTMAS.



CoA Prayer Lawsuit Can Move Forward



U.S. District Judge Susan Illston has refused the College of Alameda's attempts to have a case involving students' right to pray thrown out of court. Students Kandy Kyriacou and Ojoma Omaga are alleging that the college violated their First Amendment rights when a teacher stopped Kyriacou from praying, and then told both defendants that they could not pray.

Just before Christmas 2007 Kandy Kyriacou and Ojoma Omaga wanted to give a present to one of their teachers at the College of Alameda. Kyriacou found the instructor who said she was not feeling well. According to the Pacific Justice Institute, Kyriacou offered to pray for her. When she started her prayer faculty member Derek Piazza, who shared the office with the sick instructor, stepped in and interrupted her saying she was not allowed to pray. Kyriacou stopped and left the office and found Omaga. Piazza followed her and repeated his rebuke to both students.

The students reported Piazza's behavior. In return they got letters from the college threatening to suspend them. PJI says that the letters provided no facts on which to make such a threat, listing only vague references to "disruptive or insulting behavior" and "willful disobedience."

During the administrative hearing that followed, college officials told Kyriacou they were disciplining her for praying for the sick teacher. Omaga was not part of the prayer; she was told her offense was being with Kyriacou when Piazza admonished the pair a short time later. The students asked the administrators to rescind the letter. The school refused, and Kyriacou and Omaga filed a lawsuit.

They turned to PJI for help and the institute assigned the case to the Walnut Creek firm of Bergquist, Wood and Anderson "To this day, the College of Alameda has never provided a real explanation for its threats to expel these students," said Steven N.H. Wood, an attorney with the firm. PJI president Brad Dacus called the situation outrageous. "Since when does praying for a sick teacher to get well — with her consent — earn a suspension?" he asked in a Catholic News Agency story. "This is not just a constitutional violation; it is a complete lack of common sense. These students were not looking for a fight, but since the school to this day insists that it can expel them if they pray again, we will have to resolve it in federal court."

Dacus called the rights of students to pray in public places or in colleges or universities is "the most fundamental protection of the free exercise of religion that we can imagine."



http://alamedasun.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5029&Itemid=10

[MCWAY]

As I have stated, being religious is dying out among mainstream America. 

Yet, every presidental election, we have the candidates from BOTH parties, hitting the "Praise the Lord and vote for me" circuits, visiting various churches.

 

[Dos Equis]

I accidentally put this on the wrong thread.......

Here's a follow-up that College of Alameda story. The school is trying to get a case thrown out of court. Two students are suing the school for threatening to suspend them, simply because one of them was praying for and with a sick professor. And guess what time of year this incident started......CHRISTMAS.



CoA Prayer Lawsuit Can Move Forward



U.S. District Judge Susan Illston has refused the College of Alameda's attempts to have a case involving students' right to pray thrown out of court. Students Kandy Kyriacou and Ojoma Omaga are alleging that the college violated their First Amendment rights when a teacher stopped Kyriacou from praying, and then told both defendants that they could not pray.

Just before Christmas 2007 Kandy Kyriacou and Ojoma Omaga wanted to give a present to one of their teachers at the College of Alameda. Kyriacou found the instructor who said she was not feeling well. According to the Pacific Justice Institute, Kyriacou offered to pray for her. When she started her prayer faculty member Derek Piazza, who shared the office with the sick instructor, stepped in and interrupted her saying she was not allowed to pray. Kyriacou stopped and left the office and found Omaga. Piazza followed her and repeated his rebuke to both students.

The students reported Piazza's behavior. In return they got letters from the college threatening to suspend them. PJI says that the letters provided no facts on which to make such a threat, listing only vague references to "disruptive or insulting behavior" and "willful disobedience."

During the administrative hearing that followed, college officials told Kyriacou they were disciplining her for praying for the sick teacher. Omaga was not part of the prayer; she was told her offense was being with Kyriacou when Piazza admonished the pair a short time later. The students asked the administrators to rescind the letter. The school refused, and Kyriacou and Omaga filed a lawsuit.

They turned to PJI for help and the institute assigned the case to the Walnut Creek firm of Bergquist, Wood and Anderson "To this day, the College of Alameda has never provided a real explanation for its threats to expel these students," said Steven N.H. Wood, an attorney with the firm. PJI president Brad Dacus called the situation outrageous. "Since when does praying for a sick teacher to get well — with her consent — earn a suspension?" he asked in a Catholic News Agency story. "This is not just a constitutional violation; it is a complete lack of common sense. These students were not looking for a fight, but since the school to this day insists that it can expel them if they pray again, we will have to resolve it in federal court."

Dacus called the rights of students to pray in public places or in colleges or universities is "the most fundamental protection of the free exercise of religion that we can imagine."



http://alamedasun.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5029&Itemid=10

Good grief.  I'd expect to see something like this on The Onion.  Unbelievable.   

[tu_holmes]

Yet, every presidental election, we have the candidates from BOTH parties, hitting the "Praise the Lord and vote for me" circuits, visiting various churches.

 

While the Religious types are a minority... They are still a good sized percentage.

[MCWAY]

While the Religious types are a minority... They are still a good sized percentage.

DEAD WRONG on that one. There are lots of people of faith who voted for Obama. You make the erroneous assumption that those who are "religious types" voted exclusively GOP.

I can tell you that first hand. My wife and I both voted for Bush in 2004. Yet, she voted Obama last year; while I picked McCain.

[tu_holmes]

DEAD WRONG on that one. There are lots of people of faith who voted for Obama. You make the erroneous assumption that those who are "religious types" voted exclusively GOP.

I can tell you that first hand. My wife and I both voted for Bush in 2004. Yet, she voted Obama last year; while I picked McCain.

What did I say that was wrong? I didn't say what party they voted for.

Did you read something I didn't type?

[Dos Equis]

DEAD WRONG on that one. There are lots of people of faith who voted for Obama. You make the erroneous assumption that those who are "religious types" voted exclusively GOP.

I can tell you that first hand. My wife and I both voted for Bush in 2004. Yet, she voted Obama last year; while I picked McCain.

Duuuude.  So I'm not the only one.  lol.   

[Straw Man]

I accidentally put this on the wrong thread.......

Here's a follow-up that College of Alameda story. The school is trying to get a case thrown out of court. Two students are suing the school for threatening to suspend them, simply because one of them was praying for and with a sick professor. And guess what time of year this incident started......CHRISTMAS.

CoA Prayer Lawsuit Can Move Forward

U.S. District Judge Susan Illston has refused the College of Alameda's attempts to have a case involving students' right to pray thrown out of court. Students Kandy Kyriacou and Ojoma Omaga are alleging that the college violated their First Amendment rights when a teacher stopped Kyriacou from praying, and then told both defendants that they could not pray.

Just before Christmas 2007 Kandy Kyriacou and Ojoma Omaga wanted to give a present to one of their teachers at the College of Alameda. Kyriacou found the instructor who said she was not feeling well. According to the Pacific Justice Institute, Kyriacou offered to pray for her. When she started her prayer faculty member Derek Piazza, who shared the office with the sick instructor, stepped in and interrupted her saying she was not allowed to pray. Kyriacou stopped and left the office and found Omaga. Piazza followed her and repeated his rebuke to both students.

The students reported Piazza's behavior. In return they got letters from the college threatening to suspend them. PJI says that the letters provided no facts on which to make such a threat, listing only vague references to "disruptive or insulting behavior" and "willful disobedience."

During the administrative hearing that followed, college officials told Kyriacou they were disciplining her for praying for the sick teacher. Omaga was not part of the prayer; she was told her offense was being with Kyriacou when Piazza admonished the pair a short time later. The students asked the administrators to rescind the letter. The school refused, and Kyriacou and Omaga filed a lawsuit.

They turned to PJI for help and the institute assigned the case to the Walnut Creek firm of Bergquist, Wood and Anderson "To this day, the College of Alameda has never provided a real explanation for its threats to expel these students," said Steven N.H. Wood, an attorney with the firm. PJI president Brad Dacus called the situation outrageous. "Since when does praying for a sick teacher to get well — with her consent — earn a suspension?" he asked in a Catholic News Agency story. "This is not just a constitutional violation; it is a complete lack of common sense. These students were not looking for a fight, but since the school to this day insists that it can expel them if they pray again, we will have to resolve it in federal court."

Dacus called the rights of students to pray in public places or in colleges or universities is "the most fundamental protection of the free exercise of religion that we can imagine."

http://alamedasun.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5029&Itemid=10

This sounds about as stupid as the school that expelled those two kids for suspicion of being gay.   Basically you've got extreme examples of right wing and left wing wack jobs in positions of authority trying to impose their personal beliefs.  I still think this culture war is mostly driving from the far right and examples like this are the absurd result.   The vast majority of people would not give a shit if some kids wanted to pray for someone (or just pray in general) just as most people don't give a shit what the alleged sexual preference of some kid in their school might be.  Neither is grounds for expulstion, suspension, etc...