Author Topic: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving  (Read 28509 times)

24KT

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #50 on: April 23, 2009, 04:31:18 PM »


I'd be willing to bet my insurance doesn't do one dam thing about it.  Hadn't had a ticket or accident in years.  Over 40.  Non-smoker  etc...  

You can bet they'll be blowing their load over this. They finally got you. hahaha.
Have you ever seen an insurance company NOT jump at the chance to raise someone's rate?
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OzmO

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #51 on: April 23, 2009, 04:33:57 PM »
You can bet they'll be blowing their load over this. They finally got you. hahaha.
Have you ever seen an insurance company NOT jump at the chance to raise someone's rate?

yeah i know  >:(.

but the good news is:




























































i can switch to gieco and save 15%!

OzmO

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #52 on: April 23, 2009, 04:44:18 PM »
Here's some more, you know.................... ............... studies...........by people who do that sort of thing.  You know just an article.  Not expert unrecorded behind the wheel subjective experiences of ONE person.

Effectiveness of drivers' cellphone ban is debatable

While traffic officials applaud a new law that makes it illegal for drivers to read, write or send text messages, they admit there is little evidence that last year's ban against talking on a hand-held cellphone has actually prevented accidents.

Since holding a phone to your ear was made a traffic violation last July, the California Highway Patrol has written about 48,000 tickets, fining drivers from $20 to $50.

City police and sheriff's departments across the state have likely written thousands more, officials say, and sometimes charge higher fines. The Santa Monica Police Department issued about 1,200 tickets in 2008.

But just how effective the law has been, no one can say, just as they can't say speeding tickets necessarily keep drivers from stepping too hard on the gas.

Santa Monica Police Sgt. Larry Horn, who often patrols on a motorcycle, believes the hands-free law has made a difference.

"Six months ago, everywhere I looked someone who was driving was on the phone," he said. "From the saddle, I'm seeing less people on the phone now."

Six states and the District of Columbia have enacted laws against using hand-held cellphones while driving and another six states have given local jurisdictions the option of prohibiting it, according to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jan/03/local/me-handsfree3


Hugo Chavez

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #53 on: April 23, 2009, 04:47:43 PM »
Oh god,  Is every time someone details an explanation to you constitute a meltdown in your eyes?  Being that you melt down here more than anyone on this board i can understand why you'd see that as a meltdown.

Interesting, your "expert opinions" seem to be at odds will real experts.

I'll continue driving while talking on the cell phone.  Just stay out of N. Cali.   ;)
I just hope you only kill yourself and not some innocent family.  since you have such high demands for who can and can't speak on an issue, save me your wiki experts or at least post the rest of what it said and not only the portion that made your case. ::)  But I'm sure you have some convenient shootdown for the portions of the wiki entry that you don't like.


24KT

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #55 on: April 23, 2009, 04:51:47 PM »
How much money has it raised for state coffers? Look at that figure and tell me it hasn't been effective.
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OzmO

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #56 on: April 23, 2009, 04:52:03 PM »
http://motorcyclists-against-dumb-drivers.com/cell-phones-and-dui-drunk-driving.html

From the title of the article:  "This is a Declaration of War."  


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHA

OzmO

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #57 on: April 23, 2009, 04:53:57 PM »
How much money has it raised for state coffers? Look at that figure and tell me it hasn't been effective.

Let's see:   Let's all of them were $50 fines:  50 x 48,000 = 2.4 million and the state is still fucked up and broke.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #58 on: April 23, 2009, 04:55:47 PM »
New Institute research quantifies the added risk — drivers using phones are four times as likely to get into crashes serious enough to injure themselves.  The increased risk was estimated by comparing phone use within 10 minutes before an actual crash occurred with use by the same driver during the prior week.  Subjects were drivers treated in hospital emergency rooms for injuries suffered in crashes from April 2002 to July 2004.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-Safety/cell-phone-crash.htm

"We didn't have sufficient data to compare the different types of hands-free phones, such as those that are fully voice activated."

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #59 on: April 23, 2009, 04:56:40 PM »
From the title of the article:  "This is a Declaration of War."  


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHA
and?  That's a total loss of cred for you no doubt lol... ::)  What's not...

24KT

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #60 on: April 23, 2009, 04:57:45 PM »
Let's see:   Let's all of them were $50 fines:  50 x 48,000 = 2.4 million and the state is still fucked up and broke.

That's 2.4 million more than it had before. I wouldn't turn down 2.4 million dollars, ...would you?
I'm sure that would fix a pot-hole or two...no?
w

OzmO

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #61 on: April 23, 2009, 04:59:06 PM »
I just hope you only kill yourself and not some innocent family.  since you have such high demands for who can and can't speak on an issue, save me your wiki experts or at least post the rest of what it said and not only the portion that made your case. ::)  But I'm sure you have some convenient shootdown for the portions of the wiki entry that you don't like.

You should read it.  There's other stuff in there that challenges those findings.  While you are at it, read the other article i posted.  My demands aren't high.  Just realistic.  One driver's opinion versus expert study.  


OzmO

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #62 on: April 23, 2009, 04:59:59 PM »
New Institute research quantifies the added risk — drivers using phones are four times as likely to get into crashes serious enough to injure themselves.  The increased risk was estimated by comparing phone use within 10 minutes before an actual crash occurred with use by the same driver during the prior week.  Subjects were drivers treated in hospital emergency rooms for injuries suffered in crashes from April 2002 to July 2004.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-Safety/cell-phone-crash.htm

"We didn't have sufficient data to compare the different types of hands-free phones, such as those that are fully voice activated."


We have conflicting studies. Imagine that.

OzmO

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #63 on: April 23, 2009, 05:00:43 PM »
and?  That's a total loss of cred for you no doubt lol... ::)  What's not...

Omg!  loss of "cred" for me, what am i gonno do, oh geez......
 ::)



OzmO

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #64 on: April 23, 2009, 05:01:21 PM »
That's 2.4 million more than it had before. I wouldn't turn down 2.4 million dollars, ...would you?
I'm sure that would fix a pot-hole or two...no?

In California?

California is the money pit state.   :D

Hereford

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #65 on: April 23, 2009, 05:01:31 PM »
That's 2.4 million more than it had before. I wouldn't turn down 2.4 million dollars, ...would you?
I'm sure that would fix a pot-hole or two...no?

You could pay good-ol-boys to lean on shovels for weeks with that kinda money.

24KT

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #66 on: April 23, 2009, 05:03:30 PM »
You could pay good-ol-boys to lean on shovels for weeks with that kinda money.

...even a city slicker princess like me would lean on a shovel or two, ...screw the callouses, I'd be there.  :D
w

OzmO

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #67 on: April 23, 2009, 05:04:18 PM »
You could pay good-ol-boys to lean on shovels for weeks with that kinda money.

Yeah 2.4 million.  About 2.3999999 of that million will be wasted on something stupid and 1 pot hole gets fixed by an illegal alien tired of hitting the thing on the way to work.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #68 on: April 23, 2009, 05:04:25 PM »
Total ownage for those who think it's ok to use a cell phone and drive:
no data here on voice activated devices such as bluetooth.

Drivers on Cell Phones Are as Bad as Drunks
http://unews.utah.edu/p/?r=062206-1

Utah Psychologists Warn Against Cell Phone Use While Driving

June 29, 2006 -- Three years after the preliminary results first were presented at a scientific meeting and drew wide attention, University of Utah psychologists have published a study showing that motorists who talk on handheld or hands-free cellular phones are as impaired as drunken drivers.

"We found that people are as impaired when they drive and talk on a cell phone as they are when they drive intoxicated at the legal blood-alcohol limit” of 0.08 percent, which is the minimum level that defines illegal drunken driving in most U.S. states, says study co-author Frank Drews, an assistant professor of psychology. “If legislators really want to address driver distraction, then they should consider outlawing cell phone use while driving.”

Psychology Professor David Strayer, the study's lead author, adds: “Just like you put yourself and other people at risk when you drive drunk, you put yourself and others at risk when you use a cell phone and drive. The level of impairment is very similar.”

“Clearly the safest course of action is to not use a cell phone while driving,” concludes the study by Strayer, Drews and Dennis Crouch, a research associate professor of pharmacology and toxicology. The study was set for publication June 29 in the summer 2006 issue of Human Factors: The Journal of the Human Factors and Ergonomics Society.

The study reinforced earlier research by Strayer and Drews showing that hands-free cell phones are just as distracting as handheld cell phones because the conversation itself – not just manipulation of a handheld phone – distracts drivers from road conditions.

Human Factors Editor Nancy J. Cooke praised the study: “Although we all have our suspicions about the dangers of cell phone use while driving, human factors research on driver safety helps us move beyond mere suspicions to scientific observations of driver behavior.”

The study first gained public notice after Strayer presented preliminary results in July 2003 in Park City, Utah, during the Second International Driving Symposium on Human Factors in Driver Assessment, Training and Vehicle Design. It took until now for the study to be completed, undergo review by other researchers and finally be published.

Key Findings: Different Driving Styles, Similar Impairment

Each of the study"s 40 participants “drove” a PatrolSim driving simulator four times: once each while undistracted, using a handheld cell phone, using a hands-free cell phone and while intoxicated to the 0.08 percent blood-alcohol level after drinking vodka and orange juice. Participants followed a simulated pace car that braked intermittently.

Both handheld and hands-free cell phones impaired driving, with no significant difference in the degree of impairment. That “calls into question driving regulations that prohibited handheld cell phones and permit hands-free cell phones,” the researchers write.

The study found that compared with undistracted drivers:

Motorists who talked on either handheld or hands-free cell phones drove slightly slower, were 9 percent slower to hit the brakes, displayed 24 percent more variation in following distance as their attention switched between driving and conversing, were 19 percent slower to resume normal speed after braking and were more likely to crash. Three study participants rear-ended the pace car. All were talking on cell phones. None were drunk.
Drivers drunk at the 0.08 percent blood-alcohol level drove a bit more slowly than both undistracted drivers and drivers using cell phones, yet more aggressively. They followed the pace car more closely, were twice as likely to brake only four seconds before a collision would have occurred, and hit their brakes with 23 percent more force. “Neither accident rates, nor reaction times to vehicles braking in front of the participant, nor recovery of lost speed following braking differed significantly” from undistracted drivers, the researchers write.
“Impairments associated with using a cell phone while driving can be as profound as those associated with driving while drunk,” they conclude.

Are Drunken Drivers Really Less Accident-Prone than Cell Phone Users?

Drews says the lack of accidents among the study’s drunken drivers was surprising. He and Strayer speculate that because simulated drives were conducted during mornings, participants who got drunk were well-rested and in the “up” phase of intoxication. In reality, 80 percent of all fatal alcohol-related accidents occur between 6 p.m. and 6 a.m. when drunken drivers tend to be fatigued. Average blood-alcohol levels in those accidents are twice 0.08 percent. Forty percent of the roughly 42,000 annual U.S. traffic fatalities involve alcohol.

While none of the study’s intoxicated drivers crashed, their hard, late braking is “predictive of increased accident rates over the long run,” the researchers wrote.

One statistical analysis of the new and previous Utah studies showed cell phone users were 5.36 times more likely to get in an accident than undistracted drivers. Other studies have shown the risk is about the same as for drivers with a 0.08 blood-alcohol level.

Strayer says he expects criticism “suggesting that we are trivializing drunken-driving impairment, but it is anything but the case. We don't think people should drive while drunk, nor should they talk on their cell phone while driving.”

Drews says he and Strayer compared the impairment of motorists using cell phones to drivers with a 0.08 percent blood-alcohol level because they wanted to determine if the risk of driving while phoning was comparable to the drunken driving risk considered unacceptable.

“This study does not mean people should start driving drunk,” says Drews. “It means that driving while talking on a cell phone is as bad as or maybe worse than driving drunk, which is completely unacceptable and cannot be tolerated by society.”

University of Utah Cell Phone Research

Previous research by Strayer, Drews and colleagues include:

A 2001 study showing that hands-free cell phones are just as distracting as handheld cell phones.
A 2003 study showing that the reason is “inattention blindness,” in which motorists look directly at road conditions but don’t really see them because they are distracted by a cell phone conversation. And such drivers aren’t aware they are impaired.
A 2005 study suggesting that when teenagers and young adults talk on cell phones while driving, their reaction times are as slow as those of elderly drivers.
The University of Utah psychologists conducted the alcohol study because a 1997 study by other researchers evaluated the cell phone records of 699 people involved in motor vehicle accidents and found one-fourth of them had used their phone in the 10 minutes before their accident – a four-fold increase in accidents compared with undistracted motorists.

Those researchers speculated there was a comparable risk from drunken driving and cell phone use while driving. So Strayer and Drews conducted a controlled laboratory study.

The study included 25 men and 15 women ages 22 to 34 who were social drinkers (three to five drinks per week) recruited via newspaper advertisements. Two-thirds used a cell phone while driving. Each participant was paid $100 for 10 hours in the study.

The driving simulator has a steering wheel, dashboard instruments and brake and gas pedals from a Ford Crown Victoria sedan. The driver is surrounded by three screens showing freeway scenes. Each simulated daylight freeway drive lasted 15 minutes. The pace car intermittently braked to mimic stop-and-go traffic. Drivers who fail to hit their brakes eventually rear-end the pace car. Other simulated vehicles occasionally passed in the left lane, giving the impression of steady traffic flow.

Each study participant drove the simulator during three sessions – undistracted, drunk or talking to a research assistant on a cell phone – each on a different day.

The simulator recorded driving speed, following distance, braking time and how long it would take to collide with the pace car if brakes were not used.

The study was funded by a $25,000 grant from the Federal Aviation Administration – which is interested in impaired attention among pilots – and by Strayer’s and Drews’ salaries. The Utah Highway Patrol loaned the researchers a device to measure blood-alcohol levels.

Driving while Distracted: A Growing Problem

The researchers cited figures from the Cellular Telecommunications Industry Association indicating that more than 100 million U.S. motorists use cell phones while driving. The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration estimates that at any given moment during daylight hours, 8 percent of all drivers are talking on a cell phone.

“Fortunately, the percentage of drunk drivers at any time is much lower,” Drews says. “So it means the risk of talking on a cell phone and driving is probably much higher than driving intoxicated because more people are talking on cell phones while driving than are driving drunk.” The main reason there are not more accidents is that “92 percent of drivers are not on a cell phone and are compensating for drivers on cell phones,” he adds.

Cell phone use is far from the only distraction for motorists. The researchers cite talking to passengers, eating, drinking, lighting cigarettes, applying makeup and listening to the radio as the “old standards” of driver distraction.

“However, over the last decade many new electronic devices have been developed, and they are making their way into the vehicle,” the researchers write. “Drivers can now surf the Internet, send and receive e-mail or faxes, communicate via a cellular device and even watch television. There is good reason to believe that some of these new multitasking activities may be substantially more distracting than the old standards because they are more cognitively engaging and because they are performed over longer periods of time.”

 

News media may obtain a copy of the study by emailing leesiegel@ucomm.utah.edu or, starting June 29, by going to http://hfes.org and clicking on “What’s New”

Other studies by Strayer and colleagues on cell phones and driving may be downloaded from: http://www.psych.utah.edu/AppliedCognitionLab/ 


Hereford

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #69 on: April 23, 2009, 05:04:36 PM »
Hell, they pay them $36 an hour out here! Plus every benny under the sun.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #70 on: April 23, 2009, 05:05:36 PM »
We have conflicting studies. Imagine that.
yea and I just posted another confirming that one and worse!  But you go with the one you like ::)

OzmO

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #71 on: April 23, 2009, 05:08:49 PM »
yea and I just posted another confirming that one and worse!  But you go with the one you like ::)

Sure, as will you.   ::)

In the mean time, I'll continue to drive as i have talking on the cell phone.  Next time I'm in colorado Springs or Denver I'll let you know so i can call you up while I'm driving to warn you to stay off the roads.

Its the least i can do.   :D

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #72 on: April 23, 2009, 05:14:44 PM »
Sure, as will you.   ::)

In the mean time, I'll continue to drive as i have talking on the cell phone.  Next time I'm in colorado Springs or Denver I'll let you know so i can call you up while I'm driving to warn you to stay off the roads.

Its the least i can do.   :D
It won't be your cell phone I worry about as much. you guys should be forced take lessons on driving in colder climates.  The hazard you warm weather drivers pose is probably 10 times worse than drunk drivers.  It gets a little slick and you fools are all over the place stacking up and crashing into others.  Do me a favor and stay down there with your cell phone, lack of driving ability and selfish attitude. ;)

OzmO

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #73 on: April 23, 2009, 05:15:31 PM »
(Not that I'm interested in getting into a article posting contest)

Here's an article published yesterday talking about it in from a different angle bringing up some points i did earlier:

Published: 2009-4-22
Cell Phones and Driving: The Effectiveness of Prohibition

Article provided by Law Office of Steven G. Toole, PS
Visit us at www.sgtoolelaw.com
When the Washington State legislature banned the act of texting while driving, in January of 2008, it became the first state in the nation to explicitly enact such a prohibition. In July of the same year, the state followed with a ban on driving while talking with a handheld cell phone, joining a nationwide trend to regulate the technological distractions that drivers may encounter.

Drivers should pay attention to the road; no one questions this assertion. However, after several months with both bans in place, many people in Washington are still questioning the effectiveness and necessity of these laws. Although there are legitimate reasons to maintain these bans, there are also strong arguments for eliminating or modifying the existing laws.

The Current State of the Law

Under the current laws in Washington, a person is guilty of a traffic infraction if he or she operates a moving motor vehicle "while holding a wireless communication device to his or her ear" or if he or she "sends, reads, or writes a text message" while operating a moving motor vehicle.1

Both these statutes provide several exceptions. For example, tow truck drivers are explicitly exempt from the ban on cell phone usage when they are responding to disabled vehicles. Taxi drivers are exempt from the prohibition on text messaging, as long as they are relaying information to the taxi operator using a device that is permanently affixed to the vehicle. For people who are operating emergency vehicles or reporting illegal activities, both text messaging and cell phone usage are permissible.

Additionally, under both these statutes the traffic infraction is a secondary violation. This means that a police officer may only enforce this law if a driver is pulled over for a separate infraction.

Questioning the Effectiveness of These Laws

On the surface, the ban seems fairly reasonable. When responsible for safely guiding several tons of metal through the streets, people should be paying attention. Phones are distracting, and the use of handheld phones for talking or texting leaves everyone on the roads less safe. However, those opposed to these laws come equipped with several strong arguments — most notably that the laws are neither effective nor enforceable.

These laws attempt to reduce the distractions a driver encounters in the car. The fact is though, eliminating cell phones does not eliminate distractions. Children in the car are often distracting, but no one is suggesting a ban on passengers. Finding a favorite song on an mp3 player or selecting a radio station can take just as much attention as sending a text message, but these activities are still permitted. Simply fretting over the day's events or upcoming meetings or presentations can prevent someone from truly focusing.

Furthermore, the cell phone laws have an explicit exception for people using hands-free devices. However, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety has concluded that hands-free talking can be as risky as holding the phone when driving. Accordingly, one might reasonably question the effectiveness of a law with such a broad and inexplicable exception. Certainly, more research is in order — but if hands-free conversations are no safer than handheld phone conversations, the law has added prohibitions without actually making things safer.

Even assuming that these laws are effective and result in safer driving, the enforceability of the bans remains questionable. If a police officer pulls someone over, believing that he sent a text message, will the officer be checking phone logs to verify the offense? In an age when cell phones are often intertwined with mp3 players, changing the song might look very similar to sending a message.

Clearly, as the laws do exist, there is a significant amount of support for the prohibition despite the limitations. The fact is, when someone is driving while distracted, the driver is putting everyone else on the road at risk. Even if the distracted driver doesn't cause an accident, he or she can impede traffic and force other drivers to react to erratic driving. Furthermore, although it is true that drivers may face many forms of distraction, even small steps to reduce these distractions may have positive effects.

However, given the apparent limitations of the laws, the legislature may be wise to reexamine the laws and fully examine the ultimate effects of such a prohibition. If the restrictions are not having the intended effects, then perhaps a repeal or amendment of the law is in order.

http://knowledgebase.findlaw.com/kb/2009/Apr/1199294_1.html

OzmO

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #74 on: April 23, 2009, 05:18:10 PM »
It won't be your cell phone I worry about as much. you guys should be forced take lessons on driving in colder climates.  The hazard you warm weather drivers pose is probably 10 times worse than drunk drivers.  It gets a little slick and you fools are all over the place stacking up and crashing into others.  Do me a favor and stay down there with your cell phone, lack of driving ability and selfish attitude. ;)

No worries.  Won't be going there in the winter and chance one of those blizzards that you get.  Just so you know, I don't wouldn't talk on the phone in conditions like that.  Both hands would be on the steering wheel the whole time.