I splurged on some GH at a pretty mediocre price. I'm regretting it now. Unless you're going to run BIG doses for a long period of time it's not worth it. Mine was legit and it made a difference considering how I used it during PCT, but it wasn't as fantastic as I had hoped. I think we young'ns should wait until we're geezers before using it.
i disagree... people say sometimes "it takes a few months before you get benefits from gh... and you have to run it for at least 3 months to get benefits..."... what they are mistaken though... see, im sur eyou know about this, but lok = ghcreates new muscle cells. thats how it makes you rgow. hyperplasia - not hypertrophy. hyprtrophy is immideite, but hyperplasia, since its new cells completely, will take awhile..because a new cell is small and needs to grow... so 3 months after your firts gh infect.. now youll see what that gh inject did to you...because now those new cells that you created with gh are now finally matured and big ad ready for action... i bet 3 months of so after your gh stopped then you started getting good gains..
Do you know of any data of adult humans experiencing hyperplasia when treated with GH?
There isn't any that I'm aware of. The assumption is due to the increase in IGF1 from the liver hyperplasia will occur. There are other steroids that cause local cellular IGF1 stimulation such as dianabol but I don't think that causes hyperplasia.There isn't any data on LR3-IGF1 causing hyperplasia in adult humans either
J Appl Physiol. 1993 Apr;74(4):1893-8.Effects of anabolic steroids on the muscle cells of strength-trained athletes.Researchers: Kadi F, Eriksson A, Holmner S, Thornell LE Department of Integrative Medical Biology, Umea University, Sweden.Source: Med Sci Sports Exerc 1999 Nov;31(11):1528-34Summary:Athletes who use anabolic steroids get larger and stronger muscles. How this is reflected at the level of the muscle fibers has not yet been established and was the topic of this investigation.METHODS: Muscle biopsies were obtained from the trapezius muscles of high-level power lifters who have reported the use of anabolic steroids in high doses for several years and from high-level power lifters who have never used these drugs. Enzyme-immunohistochemical investigation was performed to assess muscle fiber types, fiber area, myonuclear number, frequency of satellite cells, and fibers expressing developmental protein isoforms.RESULTS: The overall muscle fiber composition was the same in both groups. The mean area for each fiber type in the reported steroid users was larger than that in the nonsteroid users (P < 0.05). The number of myonuclei and the proportion of central nuclei were also significantly higher in the reported steroid users (P < 0.05). Likewise, the frequency of fibers expressing developmental protein isoforms was significantly higher in the reported steroid users group (P < 0.05). [these researchers found embryonic fiber development in the nonsteroid using group as well...just not as much as in the group using.]CONCLUSION: Intake of anabolic steroids and strength-training induce an increase in muscle size by both hypertrophy and the formation of new muscle fibers (hyperplasia). We propose that activation of satellite cells is a key process and is enhanced by the steroid use. The incorporation of the satellite cells into preexisting fibers to maintain a constant nuclear to cytoplasmic ratio seems to be a fundamental mechanism for muscle fiber growth. Although all the subjects in this study have the same level of performance, the possibility of genetic differences between the two groups cannot be completely excluded.
if hyperplasia worked I assume it would also make the muscles you do not want get bigger (oblique-abs)Palumboism ?
Palumboism isn't really due to that really, I think, as someone else mentioned, that it has a lot to do with cholesterol meds for long periods of time while abusing steroids and other shit.
well , no, ive never looked into it... it seemed like common sense to me... gh works mainly by igf-1 and mgf and other gowth factors as such...and i believe the only way in which these ar anabolic is via hyperplasia... i assumed gh had no real ability to promote hypertrophy...just hyperplasia...
This was my understanding as well. Would lead one to believe that a 4-6month run of GH, followed by a nice 16-20wk AAS cycle would be optimal. In fact that's my plan next. Although Stav seems to be having good results running at the same time. I was of the opinion that the hyperplasia created muscle fibers that GH creates, would be immature and would benefit from training and the completion of the GH cycle before they would be "ready" for AAS. Is that not correct ?
The hyperplasia thing is highly theoretical, hasn't yet been demonstrated to happen.
well, isnt that what it does, creates totally new muscle cells (instead of enlarging existing ones) ?
That's what I don't know. If it does, to what extent does it do it and at what dosage and use duration? The study I posted suggests AAS may do it. Haven't seen anything similar looking at GH. I suppose they could biopsy GH treated HIV patients but AFAIK that hasn't been done.
i remember a post you made about nolva and clomid for pct use and how only comid had studies showign a boost in test... and you said while that might be true that you had aa feeling that anything that clomid does nolva will do it too..... and i totally agree with that as they do basically the same thing (as far as body composition /hormonal effects ar conerned).... now i think the same "common sense conclusion" could be done here... there isnt any solid proof showing that it happens... but we know that that is how it works..so its safe to say that thats whats happening...
Yeah I agree that you can draw pretty well supported conclusions without definitive data sometimes but I'm pretty cautious saying something is fact before seeing hard data. Because it often doesn't work like you would think. Serono has tried to prove GH causes muscle growth but from what I can see they still haven't proven it actually increases contractile skeletal muscle tissue. It's quite possible GH causes some degree of hyperplasia in skeletal muscle but who knows, maybe steroids do this too, and to a greater extent?
