IS THE BIBLE'S AUTHOR REALLY GOD?

[MCWAY]

...more on this please.

Explain it in detail as you would to a child... 'cos I'm confused.


The Luke

You're not confused; you're in denial. I've already mentioned the historical sources that cite Jesus' death via crucifixion. Those do not match the claims of Issa surviving the crucifixion, whatsoever.

Plus, you're hiding again, trying to dodge the issue, regarding your "dying resurrection godmen" claims.

[The Luke]

You're not confused; you're in denial. I've already mentioned the historical sources that cite Jesus' death via crucifixion. Those do not match the claims of Issa surviving the crucifixion, whatsoever.

...how so?

Issa's followers maintain that he IS Jesus; that he was crucified; died; and rose from the dead.

Remember, Issa's followers claim he actual resurrected from the dead... it is only the archaeologists who argue that he must have somehow survived the cross without dying because they have actual proof of an actual person (the body) who was crucified (the wounds depicted on his tomb) yet lived on.

It is only the scientists wo argue the swoon theory because they don't accept resurrection as a logical argument.


So if Issa lived the same lif as Jesus, at the same time, in the same place, and many believe he actually IS Jesus... then the stories ONLY diverge when Jesus ascends into heaven, and Issa retires to Kashmir.

Am I following...?



The Luke

[MCWAY]

...how so?

Issa's followers maintain that he IS Jesus; that he was crucified; died; and rose from the dead.

Remember, Issa's followers claim he actual resurrected from the dead... it is only the archaeologists who argue that he must have somehow survived the cross without dying because they have actual proof of an actual person (the body) who was crucified (the wounds depicted on his tomb) yet lived on.

You miss again, Luke. The lion's share of folks who hold that Issa is Jesus Christ are Muslim and their teachings FROM THE KORAN claim that Issa did not die via crucifixion.

It is only the scientists wo argue the swoon theory because they don't accept resurrection as a logical argument.

Wrong, yet again!!

So if Issa lived the same lif as Jesus, at the same time, in the same place, and many believe he actually IS Jesus... then the stories ONLY diverge when Jesus ascends into heaven, and Issa retires to Kashmir.

Am I following...?



The Luke

Not even close!! And, like the coward you are, you continue to evade and flee from defending your claims about the "dying resurrecting godmen". Since you can't escape the fact that the figures you claim were "dying resurrecting godmen" are definitely NOT SUCH, you're now on your new flavor of the month, "Issa".

But, as usual, your facts about the claims for Issa are just as inaccurate as those, regarding Osiris, Attis, Dionysus, et. al.

[The Luke]

So you don't believe Attis; Dionysus; Bacchus; Hercules; Mithras etc etc are dying and resurrecting godmen because there are versions of their stories in which they do not rise from the dead. Seems a little selective, but it's a defensible viewpoint. 

But you insist Jesus DID rise from the dead because the canonical gospels claim such, despite the fact that there are plenty of other versions of the Jesus story in which he does not rise from the dead.

Again, you are protecting your particular favorite godman from the rigours of the selective standards you use to dismiss his counterparts.

Epic double standard.


The Luke 

[MCWAY]

So you don't believe Attis; Dionysus; Bacchus; Hercules; Mithras etc etc are dying and resurrecting godmen because there are versions of their stories in which they do not rise from the dead. Seems a little selective, but it's a defensible viewpoint. 

You've been asked FOR months, to produce the so-called "mystery religion" versions that show these figures rising from the dead. To date, you've come up with SQUAT!

But you insist Jesus DID rise from the dead because the canonical gospels claim such, despite the fact that there are plenty of other versions of the Jesus story in which he does not rise from the dead.

Again, you are protecting your particular favorite godman from the rigours of the selective standards you use to dismiss his counterparts.

Epic double standard.


The Luke 

There's no "protecting" involving. The allegedly plenty of other version of the Jesus story have pretty much been refuted by historical and archaeological data. The one that has withstood the test of time and scrutiny, far greater than that of 19th-21st century skeptics, is that given from the canonical Gospels.

[The Luke]

The one that has withstood the test of time and scrutiny, far greater than that of 19th-21st century skeptics, is that given from the canonical Gospels.

...Issa?


The Luke

[MCWAY]

...Issa?


The Luke

NOPE!! That would be Jesus Christ. And Issa/Yuz Asaf or whoever is buried in Kashmir simply ain't the guy.

[The Luke]

NOPE!! That would be Jesus Christ. And Issa/Yuz Asaf or whoever is buried in Kashmir simply ain't the guy.

...because?


The Luke

[Government_Controlled]

MCWAY, what is your take on this prophecy?

The, Messiah (Jesus) must appear at an exact time. So, WHEN I'm sure you want to know? The angel Gabriel told Daniel, and this prophet tells us - Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy. Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the anointed one, the prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks. - (Dan. 9:24, 25).

So from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto Messiah the prince would be sixty-nine weeks. How long are these sixty-nine weeks,? They are not weeks of days but weeks of years, in harmony with the rule each day for a year, often found in Bible chronology. - (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34).

When do these sixty-nine weeks of years, or 483 years, begin counting? They begin, as Daniel said, from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem. When was this? History tells us it was 455 B.C. That year King Artaxerxes decreed that Jerusalem and its wall be rebuilt. This is found at (Nehemiah 2:1-8). So starting with 455 B.C., the 483 years would end A.D. 29. This is the exact time for Messiah to appear. He could not appear on earth either before or after that date.

Did Messiah appear A.D. 29? Indeed he did! ( Luke 3:1-4, ) says - In the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, - God's declaration came to John the son of Zechariah in the wilderness. So he came into all the country around the Jordan, preaching baptism of those repenting for forgiveness of sins. About six months later Jesus of Nazareth came to John and was baptized, and at this baptism it was evidenced that Jesus became the Messiah, the Anointed One; for he was anointed with God's holy spirit. - (Take a look see at Matthew 3:13-17, John 1:32-34 and Luke 4:17-19).




GC/DEA_AGENT

[MCWAY]

MCWAY, what is your take on this prophecy?

The, Messiah (Jesus) must appear at an exact time. So, WHEN I'm sure you want to know? The angel Gabriel told Daniel, and this prophet tells us - Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy. Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the anointed one, the prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks. - (Dan. 9:24, 25).

So from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto Messiah the prince would be sixty-nine weeks. How long are these sixty-nine weeks,? They are not weeks of days but weeks of years, in harmony with the rule each day for a year, often found in Bible chronology. - (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34).

When do these sixty-nine weeks of years, or 483 years, begin counting? They begin, as Daniel said, from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem. When was this? History tells us it was 455 B.C. That year King Artaxerxes decreed that Jerusalem and its wall be rebuilt. This is found at (Nehemiah 2:1-8). So starting with 455 B.C., the 483 years would end A.D. 29. This is the exact time for Messiah to appear. He could not appear on earth either before or after that date.

Did Messiah appear A.D. 29? Indeed he did! ( Luke 3:1-4, ) says - In the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, - God's declaration came to John the son of Zechariah in the wilderness. So he came into all the country around the Jordan, preaching baptism of those repenting for forgiveness of sins. About six months later Jesus of Nazareth came to John and was baptized, and at this baptism it was evidenced that Jesus became the Messiah, the Anointed One; for he was anointed with God's holy spirit. - (Take a look see at Matthew 3:13-17, John 1:32-34 and Luke 4:17-19).




GC/DEA_AGENT

I've heard of the prophecy before, back when I was in my 20s. It's basically a backdrop to citing when Jesus would be born.

It's pretty much on the money. And, it's also why traditional Bible scholars have held Luke in high regards as an historian, as it relates to his Gospel account of Jesus.

[Necrosis]

I've heard of the prophecy before, back when I was in my 20s. It's basically a backdrop to citing when Jesus would be born.

It's pretty much on the money. And, it's also why traditional Bible scholars have held Luke in high regards as an historian, as it relates to his Gospel account of Jesus.

wasnt the bible written after the jesus? is so, doesnt that defeat any credibility of prophecy.

[MCWAY]

wasnt the bible written after the jesus? is so, doesnt that defeat any credibility of prophecy.

Part of it, the portion to which we refer as the New Testament (Matthew to Revelation) was.

The other 39 books, Genesis to Malachi, was written before Christ birth. This is the Hebrew Tanakh, or what Christians call the Old Testament.

[Government_Controlled]

[Author = GC/DEA_AGENT]

So, if you have points that can be made to prove the Bible's credibility regarding authorship, lets see it.

• In (Genesis 2:7) it says that Adam was made from the ground (earth). It's known that the human body is made up of 41 chemical elements. These basic elements---carbon, iron, oxygen, and others---are all present in the "dust" of the earth. Therefore, as (Genesis) states, humans truly are formed "out of the dust from the ground". This was written around 4,500 years ago (give or take) by Moses. How is it possible that Moses new of this scientific info regarding a humans composition, when in that day this info was not known?

• Believe it or not, some people are surprised to learn that Adam and Eve are mentioned repeatedly throughout the Bible. What insight do these references shed on the historicity of the Genesis account? Consider, for example, the Jewish ancestral lists recorded in the Bible book of (1 Chronicles 1-9) and in the Gospel of (Luke chapter 3). These remarkably detailed genealogical recrods span 48 and 75 generations respectively. Luke traces the genealogy of Jesus Christ, while (Chronicles) records the royal and priestly ancestral lines for the nation of Israel. Both lists include the names of such well-known figures as Solomon, David, Jacob, Isaac, Abraham, Noah, and finally Adam. All the names in the two lists represent real people, and Adam was the original real person on each list. The Greek scriptures confirms the historicity of the account given in the early chapters of (Genesis).

• Regarding the shape of earth ,the Bible reports that the planet was ROUND. (Isaiah 40:22) - "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,and its people are like gasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,and spreads them out like a tent to live in". It was not until over 200 years after this Bible text had been written that a school of Greek philosophers reasoned that the earth likely was spherical, and in about another 300 years a Greek astronomer calculated the approximate radius of the earth. But the idea of a spherical earth was not the general view even then. Only in the 20th century has it been possible for humans to observe the shape of the earth. How did the Bible know this?

• (Lev. 11:6) - "The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you." Critics attacked this for quite some time, yet the rabbit's cud chewing was finally observed by William Cowper (Englishmen) in the 18th century. The unusual way in which it is done was described in 1940 in Proceedings of the Zoological Society of London, Vol. 110, Series A, pp. 159-163. (Leviticus) was written by Moses. Again, how would Moses know this info? He wrote this around 1512 B.C. If you think Moses got fortunate again or observed this, then why did he give God the credit? Did Moses lie?

• The internal harmony is staggering/significant, to say the least. This is especially so in view of the fact that the books of the Bible were written by 40 men as different as night and day such as king, prophet, herdsman, tax collector, and physician. They did the writing over a period of 1,610 years; so there was no opportunity for collusion. Yet their writings agree, even in the smallest detail. Isn't this a little to coincidental?

• The fulfillment of prophecies is nothing short of extraordinary!
  
  (Isa. 44:24, 27, 28; 45:1-4) - (24) "This is what the LORD says— your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, who has made all things,who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself, (27) who says to the watery deep, 'Be dry, and I will dry up your streams,' (28) who says of Cyrus, 'He is my shepherd and will accomplish all that I please; he will say of Jerusalem, "Let it be rebuilt," and of the temple, "Let its foundations be laid." '
  
  (1) "This is what the LORD says to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of to subdue nations before him and to strip kings of their armor, to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut: (2) I will go before you and will level the mountains ; I will break down gates of bronze and cut through bars of iron. (3) I will give you the treasures of darkness, riches stored in secret places, so that you may know that I am the LORD,the God of Israel, who summons you by name. (4) For the sake of Jacob my servant, of Israel my chosen, I summon you by name and bestow on you a title of honor, though you do not acknowledge me".    (The book of (Isaiah) was finished around  732 B.C.)
  
  * Fulfillment: It's known that Cyrus had not been born when this prophecy was written. The Jews were exiled to Babylon in 617-607 B.C., the temple and  Jerusalem  were not destroyed until 607 B.C. The prophecy was fulfilled in detail starting in 539 B.C. The river gates of Babylon were carelessly left open during feasting in the city allowing Cyrus to divert the waters of the Euphrates River into a fake lake,  thereby Babylon was overtaken by the Medes and Persians under Cyrus. So then, Cyrus liberated the Jewish exiles and sent them back to Jerusalem with instructions to rebuild the  God of Abraham's temple there. - The Encyclopedia Americana (1956), Vol. III, p. 9; Light From the Ancient Past (Princeton, 1959), Jack Finegan, pp. 227-229.
  
  
  
  (Luke 19:41-44; 21:20,21) - (41) "Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, (42) saying, 'If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. (43) For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, (44) and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.
  
  (20) But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. (21) Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her'". (Jesus stated this Prophecy in 33 A.D.)
  
  * Fulfillment: In 66 A.D., Jerusalem rebelled against Rome. Cestius Gallus (Roman army officer) attacked the city. However, Gallus without hesitation stopped the attack. As Josephus stated - "suddenly called off his men, abandoned hope though he had suffered no reverse, and flying in the face of all reason retired from the City". (Josephus, the Jewish War, Penguin Classics, 1969, p. 167)
  
  This gave the Christians time to leave the city, which they did, moving to Pella, beyond the Jordan. (Eusebius Pamphilus in his Ecclesiastical History, which was translated by C. F. Cruse, London, 1894, p. 75).
  
  General Titus took the city around Passover time in 70 A.D. He did this by installing fence 4.5 miles long around the city in three days, thereby after five months Jerusalem was conquered. "Jerusalem itself was systematically destroyed and the Temple left in ruins. Archaeological work shows us today just how effective was the destruction of Jewish buildings all over the land". (The Bible and Archaeology [Grand Rapids, Mich.; 1962], J. A. Thompson, p. 299).
  
  
  
  Jer. 49:17, 18 - “‘Edom must become an object of astonishment. Everyone passing along by her will stare in astonishment and whistle on account of all her plagues. Just as in the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah and her neighbor towns,’ the God of Israel has said, ‘no man will dwell there.’” (Completed by 580 B.C.)
  
  * Fulfillment: "They [the Edomites] were driven from Palestine in the 2nd century B.C. by Judas Maccabaeus, and in 109 B.C. John Hyrcanus, Maccabaen leader, extended the kingdom of Judah to include the w. part of Edomitic lands. In the 1st century B.C. Roman expansion swept away the last vestige of Edomitic independence . . . After the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 A.D. . . . the name Idumae [Edom] disappeared from history." (The New Funk & Wagnalls Encyclopedia, 1952, Vol. 11, p. 4114) This realization extends down to our day. In no way can it be argued that this prophecy was written after the events had taken place.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

• How about the Bible's knowledge of mountains? Here is a quote on geology from a textbook - “From Pre-Cambrian times down to the present, the perpetual process of building and destroying mountains has continued. . . . Not only have mountains originated from the bottom of vanished seas, but they have often been submerged long after their formation, and then re-elevated." This is what the Bible says - (6) "You [God] covered it with the deep as with a garment; the waters were standing above the mountains. (Eight) The mountains rose; the valleys sank down to the place which You [God] established for them." (Psalms 104:6,8)

• The Bible speaks about the earth's water cycle. (Ecclesiates 1:7) - "All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again". (This was written before 1000 B.C.)! Did the Bible get fortunate again?

• What about the laws that govern the universe? Take a look see at what (Jeremiah 33:25) has to say -(24) "Haven't you noticed what these people are saying? They say, 'The Lord once chose the two kingdoms of Israel and Judah. But now he has turned his back on them.' So they hate my people. They do not think of them as a nation anymore. (25) I say, 'What if I had not made my covenant with day and night? What if I had not established the laws of heaven and earth?  Again, did the Bible get fortunate? (This was written before 580 B.C.)

• How about the earth being suspended in space! (Job 26:7) - "He stretcheth out the north over empty space, And hangeth the earth upon nothing". (Written about 1613 B.C.) These men never took credit for this info!

• According to the book of (Daniel), Babylon's last leader was named Belshazzar this is of course before it (Babylon) fell to the Persians. (Daniel 5:1-30) Critics claimed the Bible was wrong about the existence of Belshazzar, since only the Bible mentioned him. However in the 19th century, several cuneiform were discovered in some ruins in southern Iraq. In these (cuneiform) writting's a prayer for the health of the oldest son of Nabonidus, king of Babylon. Belshazzar was his name.
  
  So there was a Belshazzar! But was he a king, when Babylon fell? Most documents subsequently found referred to him as the son of the king, the crown prince. But a cuneiform document described as the “Verse Account of Nabonidus” shed more light on Belshazzar’s true position. It stated - “He (Nabonidus) entrusted the ‘Camp’ to his oldest (son), the firstborn, the troops everywhere in the country he ordered under his (command). He let (everything) go, he entrusted the kingship to him.” So Belshazzar was entrusted with the kingship. This relationship between Belshazzar and his father, Nabonidus, explains why Belshazzar, during that final banquet in Babylon, offered to make Daniel the third ruler in the kingdom. (Daniel 5:16) Since Nabonidus was the first ruler, Belshazzar himself was only the second ruler of Babylon.

• The Bible's account regarding the ORGIN OF THE UNIVERSE conforms to astronomical evidence! (Gen. 1:1) “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth".  Robert Jastrow stated -  “Now we see how the astronomical evidence leads to a biblical view of the origin of the world. The details differ, but the essential elements in the astronomical and biblical accounts of Genesis are the same: the chain of events leading to man commenced suddenly and sharply at a definite moment in time, in a flash of light and energy.” - God and the Astronomers (New York, 1978), p. 14.

All Bullshot.

You know...I would take the time to explain why, and in detail, but I just don't think you're even smart enough for me to bother.

Aren't YOU the ONE who had to be schooled about Lucifer? Or did we forget so quick? Peace!




GC/DEA_AGENT

[Government_Controlled]

I've heard of the prophecy before, back when I was in my 20s. It's basically a backdrop to citing when Jesus would be born.

It's pretty much on the money. And, it's also why traditional Bible scholars have held Luke in high regards as an historian, as it relates to his Gospel account of Jesus.

What stuck out to me friend, is the fact that, that prophecy indicates that Jesus would be baptized in 29 C.E. This makes "The Luke's" so called "Mystery Religion" fallacies (claims) in regards to applying it to the Jesus of the Bible, just that, utter Bull-shot! NOBODY in any recorded history makes this claim! No matter who, what, where or for that matter, made up can say that it would happen in the ripe Ole year of 29 C.E. This makes the Jesus of the Bible TOTALLY and COMPLETELY UNIQUE!. Peace!




GC/DEA_AGENT

[The Luke]

What stuck out to me friend, is the fact that, that prophecy indicates that Jesus would be baptized in 29 C.E. This makes "The Luke's" so called "Mystery Religion" fallacies (claims) in regards to applying it to the Jesus of the Bible, just that, utter Bull-shot! Nobody an any recorded history makes this claim! No matter who, what, where or for that matter, made up can say that it would happen in the ripe Ole year of 29 C.E. This makes the Jesus of the Bible TOTALLY and COMPLETELY UNIQUE!. Peace!

Epic calculation... did you remember to subtract a year after you willy-nilly equated weeks with weeks of years?

There is no year ZERO... maybe you should redo the maths.


The Luke

[Government_Controlled]

Epic calculation... did you remember to subtract a year after you willy-nilly equated weeks with weeks of years?

There is no year ZERO... maybe you should redo the maths.


The Luke

Are YOU SURE about that, "The Luke? Please, explain in detail, I can't wait!





GC/DEA_AGENT

[The Luke]

Are YOU SURE about that, "The Luke? Please, explain in detail, I can't wait!

...do you think there is a year zero in the Christian calendar? There isn't.


The Luke

[Government_Controlled]

...do you think there is a year zero in the Christian calendar? There isn't.


The Luke

Are YOU 100% positive?





GC/DEA_AGENT

[The Luke]

Are YOU 100% positive?

Yes.

The Christians who worked out the AD/BC chronology had Christ born in 1 AD, it should have been Zero AD. Not only that, but they also calculated the dates incorrectly... a proper calculation puts Jesus birth somewhere around 4-6 BC.

They fooked-up!

So what does all that do to your prophecies?


The Luke

[Skip8282]

Yes.

The Christians who worked out the AD/BC chronology had Christ born in 1 AD, it should have been Zero AD. Not only that, but they also calculated the dates incorrectly... a proper calculation puts Jesus birth somewhere around 4-6 BC.

They fooked-up!

So what does all that do to your prophecies?


The Luke

I'm not sure if it was a fuck-up, so much as an inability.  As I understand it, the mathematics at that time didn't allow for the use of zeroes.

[The Luke]

You don't need a zero to know that Jesus shouldn't be having his first birthday in 2 AD.


The Luke

[Skip8282]

If the math your using doesn't permit zeroes, of course his bd would fall wrongly.  It's basic math to us now, not so much to them.

I'm not a believer either Luke, but at least apply a modicum of common sense.

[The Luke]

I'm not a believer either Luke, but at least apply a modicum of common sense.

The Romans got around this problem pretty simply...

They measured their years "a urbe condita" ie: "from the founding of the city (Rome)"... They made 753 BC the year of Rome's founding (a sort of effective zero year) and measured only the year afterwards as 1 AUC (ad urbe condita)... and the year before it as 1 AU (ante urbem: before Rome).

It's a simple correction and easily understood: you can count backwards and forwards from a certain YEAR but not from a particular day or event (not without the miscounted zero error).


I think I've scared poor Government Controlled into re-evaluating his prophecy spiel... the fulfillment of prophecy seems to be favourite affirmation of the religiously minded. Everyone forgets that much of the Old Testament was rewritten and edited to fit with the Jesus myth, which itsef was tweaked in ater centuries to fit prophecy as discrepancies were noticed.


The Luke

[MCWAY]

Yes.

The Christians who worked out the AD/BC chronology had Christ born in 1 AD, it should have been Zero AD. Not only that, but they also calculated the dates incorrectly... a proper calculation puts Jesus birth somewhere around 4-6 BC.

They fooked-up!

So what does all that do to your prophecies?


The Luke

Basically.......nothing!! If Jesus is born 6-4 B.C., and His appearing as Messiah during Tiberius' 15th year (28 A.D.), that would put Jesus in his early 30s or "about 30" as Luke mentioned in chapter 3 of his Gospel.

[The Luke]

Basically.......nothing!! If Jesus is born 6-4 B.C., and His appearing as Messiah during Tiberius' 15th year (28 A.D.), that would put Jesus in his early 30s or "about 30" as Luke mentioned in chapter 3 of his Gospel.

...yeah, but he has to be dead by 33, like the original Son of God. You know who that is right?


The Luke