Author Topic: IS THE BIBLE'S AUTHOR REALLY GOD?  (Read 30369 times)

MCWAY

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Re: McWay
« Reply #150 on: October 26, 2009, 05:58:26 AM »
...yeah, but he has to be dead by 33, like the original Son of God. You know who that is right?


The Luke


Yep!! And it ain't your flavor-of-the-month, alleged "dying-resurrecting godman" (who, upon further review, doesn't die in the same manner as Jesus Christ nor does he rise from the dead, whatsoever).

 ;D

The Luke

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Re: McWay
« Reply #151 on: October 26, 2009, 09:54:17 AM »
Yep!! And it ain't your flavor-of-the-month, alleged "dying-resurrecting godman" (who, upon further review, doesn't die in the same manner as Jesus Christ nor does he rise from the dead, whatsoever).

...yep, Alexander the Great.


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loco

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Re: McWay
« Reply #152 on: October 26, 2009, 10:24:41 AM »
...yep, Alexander the Great.


The Luke

Alexander the Great was 32 when he died.

http://www.umm.edu/news/releases/bug.htm

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-111933585.html

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18424782.000-four-books-on-alexander-the-great.html

Depuydt L. "The Time of Death of Alexander the Great: 11 June 323 BC, ca. 4:00-5:00 PM". Die Welt des Orients 28: 117-135.

MCWAY

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Re: McWay
« Reply #153 on: October 26, 2009, 10:34:30 AM »
...yep, Alexander the Great.


The Luke

I'm sorry! I missed the claims of Alexandar dying via crucifixion or rising from the dead.

The Luke

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Re: McWay
« Reply #154 on: October 30, 2009, 03:46:29 PM »
...yeah, but he has to be dead by 33, like the original Son of God. You know who that is right?


The Luke

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Re: IS THE BIBLE'S AUTHOR REALLY GOD?
« Reply #155 on: February 15, 2010, 03:00:50 AM »
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." (Genesis 1:1) Does this mean the earth was created in a literal 24 hour day?. Not hardly, people who study the Bible, particularly Scholars, agree this verse elucidates an action divergent from the creative days recapitulated from verse 3 onward. The belief is sagacious. The Scriptures' beginning account, the universe, including Earth, was in real time for an indefinite duration before the creative days began.

So then, do these findings, (the earth is about 4 billion years old and the universe to be around 15 billion years or so old) or their (scientist) potential future refinements, contradict Genesis 1:1? Not from what I can tell. The scriptures do not specify the actual age of "the heavens and the earth". Science doesn't disprove this Biblical text.


Hence, how long were the Creative Days? Were they a literal 24 hour period of time?






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MCWAY

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Re: IS THE BIBLE'S AUTHOR REALLY GOD?
« Reply #156 on: February 17, 2010, 07:07:32 AM »
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." (Genesis 1:1) Does this mean the earth was created in a literal 24 hour day?. Not hardly, people who study the Bible, particularly Scholars, agree this verse elucidates an action divergent from the creative days recapitulated from verse 3 onward. The belief is sagacious. The Scriptures' beginning account, the universe, including Earth, was in real time for an indefinite duration before the creative days began.

So then, do these findings, (the earth is about 4 billion years old and the universe to be around 15 billion years or so old) or their (scientist) potential future refinements, contradict Genesis 1:1? Not from what I can tell. The scriptures do not specify the actual age of "the heavens and the earth". Science doesn't disprove this Biblical text.


Hence, how long were the Creative Days? Were they a literal 24 hour period of time?






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Doesn't the book of Genesis cite the "evening and the morning" were the "first day", the "second day", etc.?

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Re: IS THE BIBLE'S AUTHOR REALLY GOD?
« Reply #157 on: February 20, 2010, 08:54:26 AM »
Doesn't the book of Genesis cite the "evening and the morning" were the "first day", the "second day", etc.?

Genesis
1) In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2) Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3) And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4) God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5) God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.


Yes it does, friend. The problem tho is with interpretation of what a "day" means. There is indication that those creative "days" you are referring to, do NOT mean a literal "24 hour period of time. For instance, I could say "back in my "day" I walked around 0% bf, all water squeezed out, and carried 250lbs of bw at 5'5"". Does that mean I'm speaking of a particular 24 hour period? No, I could mean that for a extended period of time, maybe 5 years, I walked around in this condition.

So, "day" when mentioned in these accounts, when studied, show that "day" was being used to indicate a certain period of time, not a literal "24" period.









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Re: IS THE BIBLE'S AUTHOR REALLY GOD?
« Reply #158 on: February 20, 2010, 04:13:08 PM »
Genesis
1) In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2) Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3) And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4) God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5) God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.


Yes it does, friend. The problem tho is with interpretation of what a "day" means. There is indication that those creative "days" you are referring to, do NOT mean a literal "24 hour period of time. For instance, I could say "back in my "day" I walked around 0% bf, all water squeezed out, and carried 250lbs of bw at 5'5"". Does that mean I'm speaking of a particular 24 hour period? No, I could mean that for a extended period of time, maybe 5 years, I walked around in this condition.

So, "day" when mentioned in these accounts, when studied, show that "day" was being used to indicate a certain period of time, not a literal "24" period.









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When studied? i see day and night with evening, called a day, how can you interpret it any other way?

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Re: IS THE BIBLE'S AUTHOR REALLY GOD?
« Reply #159 on: February 20, 2010, 07:49:30 PM »
When studied? i see day and night with evening, called a day, how can you interpret it any other way?


*sigh* You're going to have to take a beginners course in Bible 101, necrosis. This thread is a tad, shad above your knowledge as of yet. I could give you the answer, but it would merely SOAR FAR ABOVE your wisdom for now. Check back when you have taken the course.

P.S. I'm still studying, with 16 years under the bridge. Right at, half of my life.




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The Luke

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Re: IS THE BIBLE'S AUTHOR REALLY GOD?
« Reply #160 on: February 21, 2010, 07:35:26 PM »
Wouldn't a beginners course in Bible studies begin with the mistranslations endemic in the English-language versions of Genesis...?


You guys are arguing the technicalities of what constitutes the first day... all the while overlooking the very serious mistranslations involved.

For example, the plurals... in the beginning, who is God talking to? It's Astarte (his wife/alternate deity). Then THEY (Yahweh and Astarte) are talking to the OTHERS (the zodiac gods). Then THEY collectively (Yahweh, Astarte and the zodiac gods) are talking to the planetary gods.

...oh, and none of them CREATE anything. The Hebrew word "bara" only had one meaning at the time Genesis was written... it meant "to separate", not "create".


Guess that's what this thread is all about... if you believe God wrote the Bible, how do you reconcile that with all the obvious errors in the Bible?

...and all of this is before we get into the really disturbing stuff: Adam's first wife Lilith, the emasculation of Adam, Cain and Abel fighting over their sister.

What a mess.



The Luke

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Re: IS THE BIBLE'S AUTHOR REALLY GOD?
« Reply #161 on: February 24, 2010, 04:35:50 PM »
Wouldn't a beginners course in Bible studies begin with the mistranslations endemic in the English-language versions of Genesis...?


You guys are arguing the technicalities of what constitutes the first day... all the while overlooking the very serious mistranslations involved.

For example, the plurals... in the beginning, who is God talking to? It's Astarte (his wife/alternate deity). Then THEY (Yahweh and Astarte) are talking to the OTHERS (the zodiac gods). Then THEY collectively (Yahweh, Astarte and the zodiac gods) are talking to the planetary gods.

...oh, and none of them CREATE anything. The Hebrew word "bara" only had one meaning at the time Genesis was written... it meant "to separate", not "create".


Guess that's what this thread is all about... if you believe God wrote the Bible, how do you reconcile that with all the obvious errors in the Bible?

...and all of this is before we get into the really disturbing stuff: Adam's first wife Lilith, the emasculation of Adam, Cain and Abel fighting over their sister.

What a mess.



The Luke


WARNING! ILLEGITIMATE POST! PLEASE RE-THINK AND TRY AGAIN! WE APOLOGIZE FOR YOUR DILEMMA! GOD WILL FORGIVE YOU. IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT! GOD BLESS!




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The Luke

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Re: IS THE BIBLE'S AUTHOR REALLY GOD?
« Reply #162 on: February 24, 2010, 05:16:39 PM »
WARNING! ILLEGITIMATE POST! PLEASE RE-THINK AND TRY AGAIN! WE APOLOGIZE FOR YOUR DILEMMA! GOD WILL FORGIVE YOU. IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT! GOD BLESS!

...I don't get the joke? Explain, please.


The Luke

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Re: IS THE BIBLE'S AUTHOR REALLY GOD?
« Reply #163 on: February 24, 2010, 05:49:40 PM »
...I don't get the joke? Explain, please.


The Luke



WARNING! NO JOKE! HAVE YOU TAKEN YOUR MEDICATION TO DATE? PLEASE TRY AGAIN WHEN MENTALLY CAPABLE! GOD WILL FORGIVE YOU. GOD BLESS!





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The Luke

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Re: IS THE BIBLE'S AUTHOR REALLY GOD?
« Reply #164 on: February 24, 2010, 05:54:43 PM »
WARNING! NO JOKE! HAVE YOU TAKEN YOUR MEDICATION TO DATE? PLEASE TRY AGAIN WHEN MENTALLY CAPABLE! GOD WILL FORGIVE YOU. GOD BLESS!


Still don't get it...? Is English your first language?


The Luke

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Re: IS THE BIBLE'S AUTHOR REALLY GOD?
« Reply #165 on: February 24, 2010, 08:52:59 PM »
So, if you have points that can be made to prove the Bible's credibility regarding authorship, lets see it.


  • In (Genesis 2:7) it says that Adam was made from the ground (earth). It's known that the human body is made up of 41 chemical elements. These basic elements---carbon, iron, oxygen, and others---are all present in the "dust" of the earth. Therefore, as (Genesis) states, humans truly are formed "out of the dust from the ground". This was written around 4,500 years ago (give or take) by Moses. How is it possible that Moses new of this scientific info regarding a humans composition, when in that day this info was not known?

  • Believe it or not, some people are surprised to learn that Adam and Eve are mentioned repeatedly throughout the Bible. What insight do these references shed on the historicity of the Genesis account? Consider, for example, the Jewish ancestral lists recorded in the Bible book of (1 Chronicles 1-9) and in the Gospel of (Luke chapter 3). These remarkably detailed genealogical recrods span 48 and 75 generations respectively. Luke traces the genealogy of Jesus Christ, while (Chronicles) records the royal and priestly ancestral lines for the nation of Israel. Both lists include the names of such well-known figures as Solomon, David, Jacob, Isaac, Abraham, Noah, and finally Adam. All the names in the two lists represent real people, and Adam was the original real person on each list. The Greek scriptures confirms the historicity of the account given in the early chapters of (Genesis).

  • Regarding the shape of earth ,the Bible reports that the planet was ROUND. (Isaiah 40:22) - "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,and its people are like gasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,and spreads them out like a tent to live in". It was not until over 200 years after this Bible text had been written that a school of Greek philosophers reasoned that the earth likely was spherical, and in about another 300 years a Greek astronomer calculated the approximate radius of the earth. But the idea of a spherical earth was not the general view even then. Only in the 20th century has it been possible for humans to observe the shape of the earth. How did the Bible know this?

  • (Lev. 11:6) - "The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you." Critics attacked this for quite some time, yet the rabbit's cud chewing was finally observed by William Cowper (Englishmen) in the 18th century. The unusual way in which it is done was described in 1940 in Proceedings of the Zoological Society of London, Vol. 110, Series A, pp. 159-163. (Leviticus) was written by Moses. Again, how would Moses know this info? He wrote this around 1512 B.C. If you think Moses got fortunate again or observed this, then why did he give God the credit? Did Moses lie?

  • The internal harmony is staggering/significant, to say the least. This is especially so in view of the fact that the books of the Bible were written by 40 men as different as night and day such as king, prophet, herdsman, tax collector, and physician. They did the writing over a period of 1,610 years; so there was no opportunity for collusion. Yet their writings agree, even in the smallest detail. Isn't this a little to coincidental?


  • The fulfillment of prophecies is nothing short of extraordinary!

    (Isa. 44:24, 27, 28; 45:1-4) - (24) "This is what the LORD says— your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, who has made all things,who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself, (27) who says to the watery deep, 'Be dry, and I will dry up your streams,' (28) who says of Cyrus, 'He is my shepherd and will accomplish all that I please; he will say of Jerusalem, "Let it be rebuilt," and of the temple, "Let its foundations be laid." '

    (1) "This is what the LORD says to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of to subdue nations before him and to strip kings of their armor, to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut: (2) I will go before you and will level the mountains ; I will break down gates of bronze and cut through bars of iron. (3) I will give you the treasures of darkness, riches stored in secret places, so that you may know that I am the LORD,the God of Israel, who summons you by name. (4) For the sake of Jacob my servant, of Israel my chosen, I summon you by name and bestow on you a title of honor, though you do not acknowledge me"
    .    (The book of (Isaiah) was finished around  732 B.C.)

    * Fulfillment: It's known that Cyrus had not been born when this prophecy was written. The Jews were exiled to Babylon in 617-607 B.C., the temple and  Jerusalem  were not destroyed until 607 B.C. The prophecy was fulfilled in detail starting in 539 B.C. The river gates of Babylon were carelessly left open during feasting in the city allowing Cyrus to divert the waters of the Euphrates River into a fake lake,  thereby Babylon was overtaken by the Medes and Persians under Cyrus. So then, Cyrus liberated the Jewish exiles and sent them back to Jerusalem with instructions to rebuild the  God of Abraham's temple there. - The Encyclopedia Americana (1956), Vol. III, p. 9; Light From the Ancient Past (Princeton, 1959), Jack Finegan, pp. 227-229.



    (Luke 19:41-44; 21:20,21) - (41) "Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, (42) saying, 'If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. (43) For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, (44) and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.

    (20) But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. (21) Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her'"
    . (Jesus stated this Prophecy in 33 A.D.)

    * Fulfillment: In 66 A.D., Jerusalem rebelled against Rome. Cestius Gallus (Roman army officer) attacked the city. However, Gallus without hesitation stopped the attack. As Josephus stated - "suddenly called off his men, abandoned hope though he had suffered no reverse, and flying in the face of all reason retired from the City". (Josephus, the Jewish War, Penguin Classics, 1969, p. 167)

    This gave the Christians time to leave the city, which they did, moving to Pella, beyond the Jordan. (Eusebius Pamphilus in his Ecclesiastical History, which was translated by C. F. Cruse, London, 1894, p. 75).

    General Titus took the city around Passover time in 70 A.D. He did this by installing fence 4.5 miles long around the city in three days, thereby after five months Jerusalem was conquered. "Jerusalem itself was systematically destroyed and the Temple left in ruins. Archaeological work shows us today just how effective was the destruction of Jewish buildings all over the land". (The Bible and Archaeology [Grand Rapids, Mich.; 1962], J. A. Thompson, p. 299).



    Jer. 49:17, 18 - “‘Edom must become an object of astonishment. Everyone passing along by her will stare in astonishment and whistle on account of all her plagues. Just as in the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah and her neighbor towns,’ the God of Israel has said, ‘no man will dwell there.’” (Completed by 580 B.C.)

    * Fulfillment: "They [the Edomites] were driven from Palestine in the 2nd century B.C. by Judas Maccabaeus, and in 109 B.C. John Hyrcanus, Maccabaen leader, extended the kingdom of Judah to include the w. part of Edomitic lands. In the 1st century B.C. Roman expansion swept away the last vestige of Edomitic independence . . . After the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 A.D. . . . the name Idumae [Edom] disappeared from history." (The New Funk & Wagnalls Encyclopedia, 1952, Vol. 11, p. 4114) This realization extends down to our day. In no way can it be argued that this prophecy was written after the events had taken place.
_________________________________________________________________________________________

  • How about the Bible's knowledge of mountains? Here is a quote on geology from a textbook - “From Pre-Cambrian times down to the present, the perpetual process of building and destroying mountains has continued. . . . Not only have mountains originated from the bottom of vanished seas, but they have often been submerged long after their formation, and then re-elevated." This is what the Bible says - (6) "You [God] covered it with the deep as with a garment; the waters were standing above the mountains. (Eight) The mountains rose; the valleys sank down to the place which You [God] established for them." (Psalms 104:6,8)


  • The Bible speaks about the earth's water cycle. (Ecclesiates 1:7) - "All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again". (This was written before 1000 B.C.)! Did the Bible get fortunate again?

  • What about the laws that govern the universe? Take a look see at what (Jeremiah 33:25) has to say -(24) "Haven't you noticed what these people are saying? They say, 'The Lord once chose the two kingdoms of Israel and Judah. But now he has turned his back on them.' So they hate my people. They do not think of them as a nation anymore. (25) I say, 'What if I had not made my covenant with day and night? What if I had not established the laws of heaven and earth?  Again, did the Bible get fortunate? (This was written before 580 B.C.)

  • How about the earth being suspended in space! (Job 26:7) - "He stretcheth out the north over empty space, And hangeth the earth upon nothing". (Written about 1613 B.C.) These men never took credit for this info!

  • According to the book of (Daniel), Babylon's last leader was named Belshazzar this is of course before it (Babylon) fell to the Persians. (Daniel 5:1-30) Critics claimed the Bible was wrong about the existence of Belshazzar, since only the Bible mentioned him. However in the 19th century, several cuneiform were discovered in some ruins in southern Iraq. In these (cuneiform) writting's a prayer for the health of the oldest son of Nabonidus, king of Babylon. Belshazzar was his name.

    So there was a Belshazzar! But was he a king, when Babylon fell? Most documents subsequently found referred to him as the son of the king, the crown prince. But a cuneiform document described as the “Verse Account of Nabonidus” shed more light on Belshazzar’s true position. It stated - “He (Nabonidus) entrusted the ‘Camp’ to his oldest (son), the firstborn, the troops everywhere in the country he ordered under his (command). He let (everything) go, he entrusted the kingship to him.” So Belshazzar was entrusted with the kingship. This relationship between Belshazzar and his father, Nabonidus, explains why Belshazzar, during that final banquet in Babylon, offered to make Daniel the third ruler in the kingdom. (Daniel 5:16) Since Nabonidus was the first ruler, Belshazzar himself was only the second ruler of Babylon.

  • The Bible's account regarding the ORGIN OF THE UNIVERSE conforms to astronomical evidence! (Gen. 1:1) “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth".  Robert Jastrow stated -  “Now we see how the astronomical evidence leads to a biblical view of the origin of the world. The details differ, but the essential elements in the astronomical and biblical accounts of Genesis are the same: the chain of events leading to man commenced suddenly and sharply at a definite moment in time, in a flash of light and energy.” - God and the Astronomers (New York, 1978), p. 14.




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How did these books come to be written? There's a wide range of opinion. Let me present the two most commonly held views--what we'll call the "traditional view" and the "scholarly view."

 The traditional explanation is that the Five Books of Moses were written by Moses himself. There are several variants of this explanation:

    * Traditional Judaism and fundamentalist Christianity believe that the text was dictated by God to Moses on Mount Sinai, letter for letter (or pretty much letter for letter).
    * Other religious groups still ascribe authorship to Moses, but use words like "divinely inspired" rather than "dictated letter for letter."
    * Still others say Moses was the sole author, but there's nothing "divine" about it except in the sense that all great works of literature and poetry are "inspired."

Mosaic authorship would mean the five books were written around 1280 to 1250 BC, the most commonly accepted range of dates for the exodus from Egypt, give or take 30 years.

It has long been recognized that there were a few problems with the traditional view of Moses as author. The text reports the death of Moses--how could Moses have written of his own death? It also describes Moses as "the most humble man who ever lived"--how could Moses write that about himself? But these are minor issues. Some say Moses' successor Joshua wrote the few lines that describe the death of Moses; others say that Moses himself was commanded to write that text before it happened. None of this represents a serious challenge to Mosaic authorship.

As time went on, however, scholars became increasingly skeptical of the idea of Moses as single author. Among their objections:

    * Several stories are repeated, with different characters or different emphasis (called "doublets"). For instance, there are two creation stories (Gen 1 and Gen 2). There are three stories of a patriarch traveling among pagans and pretending his wife is his sister. There are two stories of Moses striking a rock to produce water. There are two versions of the Ten Commandments (one in Exodus, one that Moses recaps in Deuteronomy) with slightly different wording. There are, in fact, a lot of these doublets.

    * There are internal inconsistencies. The number of days of the Flood story don't add up right. At one point, Noah takes two of each animal; at another point, he takes two of some, seven of others.  Joseph is sold into slavery to Ishmaelites in one verse, to Midianites a few verses later. The Mountain of Revelation is sometimes called Sinai and sometimes Horeb. Moses' father-in-law is sometimes called Yitro and sometimes Ruel, and so on.


 
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Re: IS THE BIBLE'S AUTHOR REALLY GOD?
« Reply #166 on: February 24, 2010, 09:09:33 PM »


How did these books come to be written? There's a wide range of opinion. Let me present the two most commonly held views--what we'll call the "traditional view" and the "scholarly view."

 The traditional explanation is that the Five Books of Moses were written by Moses himself. There are several variants of this explanation:

    * Traditional Judaism and fundamentalist Christianity believe that the text was dictated by God to Moses on Mount Sinai, letter for letter (or pretty much letter for letter).
    * Other religious groups still ascribe authorship to Moses, but use words like "divinely inspired" rather than "dictated letter for letter."
    * Still others say Moses was the sole author, but there's nothing "divine" about it except in the sense that all great works of literature and poetry are "inspired."

Mosaic authorship would mean the five books were written around 1280 to 1250 BC, the most commonly accepted range of dates for the exodus from Egypt, give or take 30 years.

It has long been recognized that there were a few problems with the traditional view of Moses as author. The text reports the death of Moses--how could Moses have written of his own death? It also describes Moses as "the most humble man who ever lived"--how could Moses write that about himself? But these are minor issues. Some say Moses' successor Joshua wrote the few lines that describe the death of Moses; others say that Moses himself was commanded to write that text before it happened. None of this represents a serious challenge to Mosaic authorship.

As time went on, however, scholars became increasingly skeptical of the idea of Moses as single author. Among their objections:

    * Several stories are repeated, with different characters or different emphasis (called "doublets"). For instance, there are two creation stories (Gen 1 and Gen 2). There are three stories of a patriarch traveling among pagans and pretending his wife is his sister. There are two stories of Moses striking a rock to produce water. There are two versions of the Ten Commandments (one in Exodus, one that Moses recaps in Deuteronomy) with slightly different wording. There are, in fact, a lot of these doublets.

    * There are internal inconsistencies. The number of days of the Flood story don't add up right. At one point, Noah takes two of each animal; at another point, he takes two of some, seven of others.  Joseph is sold into slavery to Ishmaelites in one verse, to Midianites a few verses later. The Mountain of Revelation is sometimes called Sinai and sometimes Horeb. Moses' father-in-law is sometimes called Yitro and sometimes Ruel, and so on.


 

Are you debating, or asking? At any rate, this is too basic for me. My expertise is higher and my knowledge regarding these easy dismissable so-called "inconsistencies". One of the resident, beginners should be able to chime in and set you straight. I cannot tolerate this low-level inquiry/argument anymore. I wish you the best!




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MCWAY

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Re: IS THE BIBLE'S AUTHOR REALLY GOD?
« Reply #167 on: February 24, 2010, 09:18:28 PM »


How did these books come to be written? There's a wide range of opinion. Let me present the two most commonly held views--what we'll call the "traditional view" and the "scholarly view."

 The traditional explanation is that the Five Books of Moses were written by Moses himself. There are several variants of this explanation:

    * Traditional Judaism and fundamentalist Christianity believe that the text was dictated by God to Moses on Mount Sinai, letter for letter (or pretty much letter for letter).
    * Other religious groups still ascribe authorship to Moses, but use words like "divinely inspired" rather than "dictated letter for letter."
    * Still others say Moses was the sole author, but there's nothing "divine" about it except in the sense that all great works of literature and poetry are "inspired."

Mosaic authorship would mean the five books were written around 1280 to 1250 BC, the most commonly accepted range of dates for the exodus from Egypt, give or take 30 years.

It has long been recognized that there were a few problems with the traditional view of Moses as author. The text reports the death of Moses--how could Moses have written of his own death? It also describes Moses as "the most humble man who ever lived"--how could Moses write that about himself? But these are minor issues. Some say Moses' successor Joshua wrote the few lines that describe the death of Moses; others say that Moses himself was commanded to write that text before it happened. None of this represents a serious challenge to Mosaic authorship.

As time went on, however, scholars became increasingly skeptical of the idea of Moses as single author. Among their objections:

    * Several stories are repeated, with different characters or different emphasis (called "doublets"). For instance, there are two creation stories (Gen 1 and Gen 2). There are three stories of a patriarch traveling among pagans and pretending his wife is his sister. There are two stories of Moses striking a rock to produce water. There are two versions of the Ten Commandments (one in Exodus, one that Moses recaps in Deuteronomy) with slightly different wording. There are, in fact, a lot of these doublets.

    * There are internal inconsistencies. The number of days of the Flood story don't add up right. At one point, Noah takes two of each animal; at another point, he takes two of some, seven of others.  Joseph is sold into slavery to Ishmaelites in one verse, to Midianites a few verses later. The Mountain of Revelation is sometimes called Sinai and sometimes Horeb. Moses' father-in-law is sometimes called Yitro and sometimes Ruel, and so on.


 

For starters, there aren't two Creation accounts. This blurb is usually done, under the assumption that when the accounts are listed in Gen.2, that they occured in that particular order. However, there is NO time constraints in Gen. 2.

Gen. 1 states when what was created and on which day. Unless something in Gen. 2 states that something was created on a day DIFFERENT than that which was listed in Gen. 1, there is no conflict.

It's like this: If I say I had fish on Monday, beef on Tuesday, and chicken on Wednesday.

ay in one letter. Then I write in another letter that I had chicken, beef, and fish over the last three days. That doens't mean that the account clashed. Why? In the second letter, I DO NOT MENTION on which days I had certain meats.

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Re: IS THE BIBLE'S AUTHOR REALLY GOD?
« Reply #168 on: February 24, 2010, 09:27:05 PM »
For starters, there aren't two Creation accounts. This blurb is usually done, under the assumption that when the accounts are listed in Gen.2, that they occured in that particular order. However, there is NO time constraints in Gen. 2.

Gen. 1 states when what was created and on which day. Unless something in Gen. 2 states that something was created on a day DIFFERENT than that which was listed in Gen. 1, there is no conflict.

It's like this: If I say I had fish on Monday, beef on Tuesday, and chicken on Wednesd

ay in one letter. Then I write in another letter that I had chicken, beef, and fish over the last three days. That doens't mean that the account clashed. Why? In the second letter, I DO NOT MENTION on which days I had certain meats.


 Try again.
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Re: IS THE BIBLE'S AUTHOR REALLY GOD?
« Reply #169 on: February 24, 2010, 09:33:06 PM »

 Try again.

You try again. Where is this alleged conflict, between Gen. 1 or 2, or did you just copy and paste this from an atheist/skeptic website, without studying the actual verses?

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Re: IS THE BIBLE'S AUTHOR REALLY GOD?
« Reply #170 on: February 24, 2010, 09:39:51 PM »
You try again. Where is this alleged conflict, between Gen. 1 or 2, or did you just copy and paste this from an atheist/skeptic website, without studying the actual verses?




 Who Wrote the Bible? by Richard Elliot Friedman, Harper & Row, 1987

Understanding the Old Testament, by Bernhard W. Anderson, Prentice-Hall, 1986

The Art of Biblical Narrative, by Robert Alter, Basic Books, 1981

The Religion of Israel, by Yehezkel Kaufmann (trans: Moshe Greenberg), University of Chicago Press, 1948
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Re: IS THE BIBLE'S AUTHOR REALLY GOD?
« Reply #171 on: February 25, 2010, 08:21:56 AM »



 Who Wrote the Bible? by Richard Elliot Friedman, Harper & Row, 1987

Understanding the Old Testament, by Bernhard W. Anderson, Prentice-Hall, 1986

The Art of Biblical Narrative, by Robert Alter, Basic Books, 1981

The Religion of Israel, by Yehezkel Kaufmann (trans: Moshe Greenberg), University of Chicago Press, 1948


There are just as many OTHER books to show differently? Who is right? Only one opinion can be.





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Re: IS THE BIBLE'S AUTHOR REALLY GOD?
« Reply #172 on: February 25, 2010, 08:52:06 AM »



 Who Wrote the Bible? by Richard Elliot Friedman, Harper & Row, 1987

Understanding the Old Testament, by Bernhard W. Anderson, Prentice-Hall, 1986

The Art of Biblical Narrative, by Robert Alter, Basic Books, 1981

The Religion of Israel, by Yehezkel Kaufmann (trans: Moshe Greenberg), University of Chicago Press, 1948

Again, what is this alleged discrepancy, between Gen. 1 and Gen. 2?

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Re: IS THE BIBLE'S AUTHOR REALLY GOD?
« Reply #173 on: February 26, 2010, 09:19:15 PM »



 Who Wrote the Bible? by Richard Elliot Friedman, Harper & Row, 1987

Understanding the Old Testament, by Bernhard W. Anderson, Prentice-Hall, 1986

The Art of Biblical Narrative, by Robert Alter, Basic Books, 1981

The Religion of Israel, by Yehezkel Kaufmann (trans: Moshe Greenberg), University of Chicago Press, 1948


Poor ole GRACIE JIU-JITSU apparently, has jitsued for his last time, it seems? What are the discrepancies? I'm curious to hear it.






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Re: IS THE BIBLE'S AUTHOR REALLY GOD?
« Reply #174 on: February 27, 2010, 06:16:06 AM »

 Discrepancies.  1 and 2.

    

Genesis 1:25-27
(Humans were created after the other animals.)

    And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image.... So God created man in his own image.



Genesis 2:18-19
(Humans were created before the other animals.)

    And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.





Genesis 1:27
(The first man and woman were created simultaneously.)

    So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.


 
Genesis 2:18-22
(The man was created first, then the animals, then the woman from the man's rib.)

    And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them.... And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
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