Scenario: If Lee Haney competed in the 1990's, NOT the 1980's

[JasonH]

I think if Haney had competed in 1992 he would have finished seond behind Dorian but ahead of Levrone.

In 1993 however, it would have been a different story - I would have placed him fourth behind Yates, Flex, and Shawn.

From that point onwards he would have been finished as other guys came through like Nasser, Dillett etc.

[lax]

So, you're lumping the best bodybuilders of the 1990's with PRESENT DAY bodybuilders?

Okay.....

no
there is NO comparison

[lax]

good observation, i think Haney would never be as sucessfull as he did in other times...

no
Haney would have an easier time with latter day bb's...they simply were/are not as good

[LurkerNoMore]

A better question would be what if Lee Haney used the 1990's roid doses when he competed in the 1980's.

He would have still killed anyone in the early 90's simply by upping the dose.

[johnny1]

i agree he retired after his tough battle with dorian in 91 in order not to take the risk of ending his career with a defeat in 92!!.. i respect him for this..

No i dont think that was the case Sherief, Lee retired because for him there was nothing more for him to do in Bodybuilding, he had said right from the start of his first win in 1984 that Arnolds then Olympia of 7 MR O titles wasnt in his sights...then 1 became 2 then 3-4 etc, when Lee broke Arnolds consecutive record of 6 straight (arnolds between 1970-75) in 1990 making it 7 straight he said it was beyond his wildest dreams that he could break the great Arnolds consecutive record, when asked if he was going for the outright record of 8 he said he would have to think it over...he did came out in print that he was going for the outright record of 8.

When he won in 1991 he retired because he was now down in History as the Greatest BBer in History...bar none, said it was time to move on to other goals, spend more time with his Family, his charity house work for kids, etc etc, the fact that Dorian pushed him for his last win made little difference to Lee, there was nothing more to prove etc in BBing, and he was right... people can say all they want about this guy being better and all the modern bbers being bigger/better/conditioned/etc than Lee....the fact remains in 2009 18 years after Lee last was Mr Olympia, he is STILL OFFICIALLY the greatest BBer in History tied equaled with Coleman on 8 wins each.

The new generation of flex,Levrone,Dillet,Yates,etc had no bearing on him retiring...why would it? the fact that none of that lot were around against Lee in the 80s etc wasn't his problem, you can only beat the best that's in front of you @ the time you were the best...and he did.

[MCWAY]

IF Haney was so damn good, why did he call it quits after the 91 Mr. O? He barely beat Dorian. Did Haney sense that a new era was upon him? A era of Dorian, Flex, Shawn, Kevin, Chris, Dillett, Nasser, Ronnie, Charles, Darrem, Priest, Sherman, Vince. The roster of those top guys would beat anything that Haney had to put up with.

He called it quits, because he'd achieved EVERYTHING he set out to achieve in bodybuilding, the last of which was breaking Schwarzenegger's record.

He defeated Dorian Yates and Shawn Ray (multiple times) and Vince Taylor (twice). Dillett wasn't even a pro. Ronnie placed "16th" in his first Olympia.

[njflex]

He called it quits, because he'd achieved EVERYTHING he set out to achieve in bodybuilding, the last of which was breaking Schwarzenegger's record.

He defeated Dorian Yates and Shawn Ray (multiple times) and Vince Taylor (twice). Dillett wasn't even a pro. Ronnie placed "16th" in his first Olympia.

well said,and haney seemed like a humble man.he had to do what it took to be mr o,but did it with class.

[Danimal77]

no
Haney would have an easier time with latter day bb's...they simply were/are not as good

You're doing it again. You're 1990's competitors with the CURRENT crop as ALL being latter day? Dude, how the hell can you compare a 1993 Flex Wheeler, or a 1994 Shawn Ray with ANYONE that came after 1999 with exception to Coleman (PRE-BLOATED FASE)...

Guys in the 1990's still had UNIQUE physiques (like all previous decades). Only difference was that they carried much more body mass. I AGREE that everything from 2000 and beyond should be erased from bodybuilding history as having been a disgrace to what was once a respectable sport (with exception to a very limited few).

You're not being logical. You're just being a grumpy old man.

[Danimal77]

No i dont think that was the case Sherief, Lee retired because for him there was nothing more for him to do in Bodybuilding, he had said right from the start of his first win in 1984 that Arnolds then Olympia of 7 MR O titles wasnt in his sights...then 1 became 2 then 3-4 etc, when Lee broke Arnolds consecutive record of 6 straight (arnolds between 1970-75) in 1990 making it 7 straight he said it was beyond his wildest dreams that he could break the great Arnolds consecutive record, when asked if he was going for the outright record of 8 he said he would have to think it over...he did came out in print that he was going for the outright record of 8.

When he won in 1991 he retired because he was now down in History as the Greatest BBer in History...bar none, said it was time to move on to other goals, spend more time with his Family, his charity house work for kids, etc etc, the fact that Dorian pushed him for his last win made little difference to Lee, there was nothing more to prove etc in BBing, and he was right... people can say all they want about this guy being better and all the modern bbers being bigger/better/conditioned/etc than Lee....the fact remains in 2009 18 years after Lee last was Mr Olympia, he is STILL OFFICIALLY the greatest BBer in History tied equaled with Coleman on 8 wins each.

The new generation of flex,Levrone,Dillet,Yates,etc had no bearing on him retiring...why would it? the fact that none of that lot were around against Lee in the 80s etc wasn't his problem, you can only beat the best that's in front of you @ the time you were the best...and he did.

But would he have beat the best of the 1990's with his winning 1980's physique? THAT is the question and I don't think ANYONE has truly answered it with any real intelligence so far.

[Captain Equipoise]

Guys like Levrone, Wheeler and Yates would have blown him off the stage, he was too lanky for a Mr.O of the 90's...Dozer brought the mass, Ronnie took it to another level in the next era, Haney was a stringbean in comparison.

[Sherief Shalaby]

I think if Haney had competed in 1992 he would have finished seond behind Dorian but ahead of Levrone.

In 1993 however, it would have been a different story - I would have placed him fourth behind Yates, Flex, and Shawn.

From that point onwards he would have been finished as other guys came through like Nasser, Dillett etc.

you cant really put nasser and dillett as in the same level .. even at his best dillett NEVER beat wheeler, levrone, or, ray.. on the other hand nasser did!!..

[Sherief Shalaby]

No i dont think that was the case Sherief, Lee retired because for him there was nothing more for him to do in Bodybuilding, he had said right from the start of his first win in 1984 that Arnolds then Olympia of 7 MR O titles wasnt in his sights...then 1 became 2 then 3-4 etc, when Lee broke Arnolds consecutive record of 6 straight (arnolds between 1970-75) in 1990 making it 7 straight he said it was beyond his wildest dreams that he could break the great Arnolds consecutive record, when asked if he was going for the outright record of 8 he said he would have to think it over...he did came out in print that he was going for the outright record of 8.

When he won in 1991 he retired because he was now down in History as the Greatest BBer in History...bar none, said it was time to move on to other goals, spend more time with his Family, his charity house work for kids, etc etc, the fact that Dorian pushed him for his last win made little difference to Lee, there was nothing more to prove etc in BBing, and he was right... people can say all they want about this guy being better and all the modern bbers being bigger/better/conditioned/etc than Lee....the fact remains in 2009 18 years after Lee last was Mr Olympia, he is STILL OFFICIALLY the greatest BBer in History tied equaled with Coleman on 8 wins each.

The new generation of flex,Levrone,Dillet,Yates,etc had no bearing on him retiring...why would it? the fact that none of that lot were around against Lee in the 80s etc wasn't his problem, you can only beat the best that's in front of you @ the time you were the best...and he did.

you may be right johnny, i was just guessing but i really think no one can say if dorian was one of the reasons that made haney retired or not except haney himself!!..

i mean he was only 31 when he retired, if his way was still easy to take 2 more sandows or so to make it 10 i believe but i am not sure he wouldnt have retired!!.. he may have postponed his retirement 2 more years or so and at 33 or 34 he was still young to spend more of his time in whatever he wanted!..

[Sherief Shalaby]

But would he have beat the best of the 1990's with his winning 1980's physique? THAT is the question and I don't think ANYONE has truly answered it with any real intelligence so far.

i did answered you in my first post!!..

[johnny1]

Yip i really do beleave Lee had nothing left to prove hed been Champion 8 years straight and the amount of sacrifice etc thats involved for that sort of reign would be huge, and while he was just 31 when he retired the passion he had for the sport in the early days would (like it would for anyone) be alot less especially @ that level year after year.

I Think Dorians package @ the 1993 MR O would of been too much for Lee even in his best shape, im not so certain about 1992 where give or take alittle in his conditioning Dorian was roughly the same as his O appearance in 1991, you know you see how long Dorian pushed on after his body started breaking down...from 1994 though to 1997 and while there's thousands of knockers on Dorians tears etc, most of them don't mention the fact that he pushed on, didnt make up excuses,showed up @ the biggest bb contest of all...and still not only competed...but won witch IMO speaks huge volumes about his sheer determination, will and character. it was Dorian not Lee IMO that actually got out @ the right time in 1997 cause bye that time his body was literally being torned apart, while in Lees case he was still in healthy position got out with his youth, health, money, and reputation as the greatest BBer ever left in tact

[Sherief Shalaby]

Yip i really do beleave Lee had nothing left to prove hed been Champion 8 years straight and the amount of sacrifice etc thats involved for that sort of reign would be huge, and while he was just 31 when he retired the passion he had for the sport in the early days would (like it would for anyone) be alot less especially @ that level year after year.

I Think Dorians package @ the 1993 MR O would of been too much for Lee even in his best shape, im not so certain about 1992 where give or take alittle in his conditioning Dorian was roughly the same as his O appearance in 1991, you know you see how long Dorian pushed on after his body started breaking down...from 1994 though to 1997 and while there's thousands of knockers on Dorians tears etc, most of them don't mention the fact that he pushed on, didnt make up excuses,showed up @ the biggest bb contest of all...and still not only competed...but won witch IMO speaks huge volumes about his sheer determination, will and character. it was Dorian not Lee IMO that actually got out @ the right time in 1997 cause bye that time his body was literally being torned apart, while in Lees case he was still in healthy position got out with his youth, health, money, and reputation as the greatest BBer ever left in tact

good post, i totally agree with you..

this pic. shows that lee's quads were not weak as some ppl always say!!..

[slaveboy1980]

If Lee Haney looked like he did in the 1980's, but began competing in 1992, rather than 1982, how would he have fared in the placings?

This is kind of a throwback to the Dexter vs. Shawn Ray thread. Lee Haney DOMINATED from 1982/1983 up until 1991 (it was a close call that year). As of 1992, the competition was MUCH more competitive. So, if he had been one of the many new rookie pro's in 1982, how would he have fared throughout the 90's, next to guys like Yates, Levrone, Wheeler, Dillett, Nasser, Cormier, Shawn Ray, etc?

Personally, I think Shawn Ray MURDERED Rich Gaspari. Charles Clairmonte murdered Berry Demey. Cormier murdered Mike Christian, etc....

Discuss.....

a 91 version of haney would have done very well during all of the 90s. a haney that would have gone pro in 92 would have taken his physique further than his 91 shape and im 100% sure he could have added even more mass and weighed 260+...and been a serious contender for the mr olympia. haney (if he took  his physique further than the 91 version..which he could have..) def had the potential to beat even the 93 version of dorian.

[Danimal77]

Guys like Levrone, Wheeler and Yates would have blown him off the stage, he was too lanky for a Mr.O of the 90's...Dozer brought the mass, Ronnie took it to another level in the next era, Haney was a stringbean in comparison.

A 259 pound stringbean 

[Danimal77]

Yip i really do beleave Lee had nothing left to prove hed been Champion 8 years straight and the amount of sacrifice etc thats involved for that sort of reign would be huge, and while he was just 31 when he retired the passion he had for the sport in the early days would (like it would for anyone) be alot less especially @ that level year after year.

I Think Dorians package @ the 1993 MR O would of been too much for Lee even in his best shape, im not so certain about 1992 where give or take alittle in his conditioning Dorian was roughly the same as his O appearance in 1991, you know you see how long Dorian pushed on after his body started breaking down...from 1994 though to 1997 and while there's thousands of knockers on Dorians tears etc, most of them don't mention the fact that he pushed on, didnt make up excuses,showed up @ the biggest bb contest of all...and still not only competed...but won witch IMO speaks huge volumes about his sheer determination, will and character. it was Dorian not Lee IMO that actually got out @ the right time in 1997 cause bye that time his body was literally being torned apart, while in Lees case he was still in healthy position got out with his youth, health, money, and reputation as the greatest BBer ever left in tact

The initial question wasn't if Lee could take out Dorian. The question was if Lee could hold his own again the majority of the 1990's competitors (Levrone, Wheeler, Cormier, Ray, Dilett, Nasser, Clairmonte, etc....)?

[NarcissisticDeity]

you cant really put nasser and dillett as in the same level .. even at his best dillett NEVER beat wheeler, levrone, or, ray.. on the other hand nasser did!!..

Check your facts sport 

1994 Grand Prix France , Dillett beat Nasser
1994 Grand Prix Germany , Dillett beat Nasser
1994 Mr Olympia Dillett beat Nasser
1996 Arnold Classic Dillett beat Shawn Ray
1996 Grand Prix England , Dillett beat Levrone
1996 Grand Prix Spain , Dillett beat Nasser
1996 Grand Prix Switzerland , Dillett beat Levrone
1996 Ironman Dillett beat Ray
1997 Arnold Classic Dillett beat Levrone

[NarcissisticDeity]

The initial question wasn't if Lee could take out Dorian. The question was if Lee could hold his own again the majority of the 1990's competitors (Levrone, Wheeler, Cormier, Ray, Dilett, Nasser, Clairmonte, etc....)?

If he improved , if he stood the same physique no , Flex Wheeler 1993 Arnold Classic would beat Haney 1991

[Parker]

you cant really put nasser and dillett as in the same level .. even at his best dillett NEVER beat wheeler, levrone, or, ray.. on the other hand nasser did!!..

Dorian put Dillett in that category. He stated that Dillet was a huge threat.

Mcway, I agree with you

[NarcissisticDeity]

Dorian put Dillett in that category. He stated that Dillet was a huge threat.

Mcway, I agree with you

I don't ever recall him saying that  the only guy who he said could give him trouble was Flex

[johnny1]

But would he have beat the best of the 1990's with his winning 1980's physique? THAT is the question and I don't think ANYONE has truly answered it with any real intelligence so far.

The reason no one has answered the question by way of intelligence is clear....how would Ali 1966 do against Tyson 1986?....How would Rocky Marciano 1955 do against Ali 1965?...no one can answer those type of questions with certainty because all you will get is what you are getting right now in this thread....peoples/views/opinion's etc. the reason ive brought Lee and Dorian into the question is because its relivent as they have Actually competed against one another so gauging those 2 is somewhat (to a point) clearer than the others.
What is clear is that the physiques of the 1990s were the bench mark and IMO still are.

[Sherief Shalaby]

Check your facts sport 

1994 Grand Prix France , Dillett beat Nasser
1994 Grand Prix Germany , Dillett beat Nasser
1994 Mr Olympia Dillett beat Nasser
1996 Arnold Classic Dillett beat Shawn Ray
1996 Grand Prix England , Dillett beat Levrone
1996 Grand Prix Spain , Dillett beat Nasser
1996 Grand Prix Switzerland , Dillett beat Levrone
1996 Ironman Dillett beat Ray
1997 Arnold Classic Dillett beat Levrone

sure i know these facts well but i was talking about the Olympia

[NarcissisticDeity]

sure i know these facts well but i was talking about the Olympia

You didn't specify