Author Topic: PAT ROBERTSON is actually Historically Correct in Haitian "Pact with Devil"  (Read 6557 times)

The True Adonis

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We are pleased to present a guest post on the very current issue of Haiti, written by Robert Taber, a doctoral candidate in Carribbean History at the University of Florida. Accordingly, he is well-versed in historical and cultural factors of Haiti, having spent significant time in the country.

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Contrary to most people’s reactions to Pat Robertson’s remarks on Wednesday, his reference to Haiti’s “pact with the devil” did not appear out of thin air. As Matt Yglesias has pointed out this was a reference to the Bois Caiman ceremony at the beginning of the Haitian Revolution in 1791. This is not strictly a mangling of history on Robertson’s part. His comments come straight out of a blend of theology and history that, at the grassroots, pervades Haiti’s political discourse. Labeling the event at Bois Caiman a satanic pact touches on the most potent part of a vibrant oral tradition, a national myth that attempts to explain Haiti’s relationship with God and the world.

The French Revolution had been going on for two years when slave leaders gathered in the Caiman woods outside of what’s today Cap Haitien. The fighting between and within the white elite and the free mulatto population presented an excellent opportunity for general revolt. Most of the slaves present worked as overseers or coachmen for their respective masters, giving them freedom of movement and the right to carry swords. Dutty Boukman, a slave originally from Jamaica, and a priestess of disputed identity led a Voudou ceremony where they allegedly charged the gathered slaves “to throw away the image of the god of the whites who thirsts for our tears and listen to the voice of liberty that speaks in the hearts of all of us.” They then made an oath of secrecy and revenge, sealing it by drinking the blood of a sacrificed pig, a ceremony possibly West African in origin. This event bears a similar relationship to the Haitian Revolution as the Boston Tea Party does to the American Revolution—a critical event that helped galvanize the founding generation and forms a centerpoint for revolutionary legend today.

One of the first things that comes to mind in any discussion of Haiti, Voudou is a complex blending of West African and popular Catholic traditions. Paul Farmer gave the best description of Voudou’s place in Haitian culture and society when he thus described a firmly Christian peasant: “Of course he believes in Voudou. He just believes it’s wrong.” The Voudou question strikes at the heart of Haitian religious life. For its practitioners, Voudou offers a pantheon of friendly spirits, or lwas, that offer avenues to healing and hope. For its opponents, including many conservative Protestants and Catholics, it is spirit possession and satanic worship. The two sides disagree on what percentage of Voudou involves curses and malevolence, but both agree that such things are part of the religion. And, for those who oppose Voudou, Boukman’s ceremony in Bois Caiman sold the country to the devil.

For religious conservatives in Haiti and abroad, the idea that the leaders of the slave revolt led and participated in a Voudou ceremony provides a troubling contrast to presentations of the United States’ founding fathers as devout Christians, one that explains their vastly different fortunes. Many view the U.S. invasions and the rule of the Duvaliers as indications of the devil’s two hundred year lease on the country.

I first heard the story of the pact in late 2003. Protests against President Bertrand Aristide were rocking the small town of Petit-Goâve where I was volunteering for an international non-profit. My Haitian roommates explained that Aristide, as a poor Catholic priest, was involved in Voudou and had used the more violent lwa to build his political support. Once the first two hundred years of independence ended with the bicentennial on January 1, 2004, the devil’s hold on Haiti would loosen and Aristide’s support would vanish. I heard similar stories from other residents of Petit-Goâve and later from Haitians in the United States. Voudou had been responsible for independence, and it was responsible for Haiti’s inability to find a place on the world stage, for the reigns of the Duvaliers, for the ineptitude of Arisitide, and for the natural disasters that plagued the country. All of this, they said, would change once the bicentennial came.

Aristide left Haiti in February of 2004, but the happier, more prosperous era my associates hoped for has yet to arrive. Under the interim government of Gérard Lartortue, Port-au-Prince saw an increase in fighting between rival gangs and criminal networks perfect the art of kidnapping foreigners. Major hurricanes slammed the country repeatedly in 2004 and 2008, with the soaring cost of food causing its own problems. Then came this week’s earthquake. For the many Haitians who believe in the pact and the curse, who hoped for its end in 2004, the terrible devastation of Port-au-Prince raises existential questions for which there are few answers.

The history of Haiti is one of remarkable courage in the face of daunting odds. Fears of spreading slave revolt led the global community to isolate newly independent Haiti. In exchange for recognition of its hard-fought independence, France demanded a war-damage payment of 150 million francs—estimated at $21 billion in 2004 US dollars—that Haiti spent eighty years paying. Post-Castro worries about communism spreading in the Caribbean meant that the Eisenhower and Kennedy administrations looked the other way as Jean-Claude Duvalier solidified his iron grip. In 1983, The US Department of Agriculture’s concerns about African swine fever led to the indiscriminate slaughter of the pigs that formed the backbone of Haiti’s rural economy. One need not look to supernatural realms to find the devils plaguing Haiti.

The most generous reading of Rev. Robertson’s statement is one of searching for positive direction and building anew. Port-au-Prince last rose out of the rubble in 1770, twenty-one years before the people of Haiti began the West’s only successful slave revolt. We need to begin the discussion of how this rebuilding can match the glory of that remarkable achievement.

Robert Taber is a doctoral candidate in Carribbean History at the University of Florida. He can be contacted at robtaber@ufl.edu.

The True Adonis

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I do think however, Pat Robertson really thinks there is a supernatural element at work and for that he is a complete moron and will always be as such.

This does not change the fact that he is an ignorant religiously motivated bigot.

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I do think however, Pat Robertson really thinks there is a supernatural element at work and for that he is a complete moron and will always be as such.

This does not change the fact that he is an ignorant religiously motivated bigot.

Most preachers are.Just look at the one Obama sat and listended to for 20 years.Loony as hell.

Soul Crusher

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Most preachers are.Just look at the one Obama sat and listended to for 20 years.Loony as hell.

 ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

LLMMAAOO BILLY!

The True Adonis

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Most preachers are.Just look at the one Obama sat and listended to for 20 years.Loony as hell.
Obama is an atheist.  Both of his parents were atheist as was his grandparents.  Trust me, the apple has not fallen far from the tree in this respect.  He USED the black congregation to his benefit as it is a community with power.  Wright taped a great deal of sermons and Obama is not to be found in any one of them.  It is sad in this country that you have to USE religious people or else you risk being ostracized from a largely gullible and stupid public.

Soul Crusher

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Obama is an atheist.  Both of his parents were atheist as was his grandparents.  Trust me, the apple has not fallen far from the tree in this respect.  He USED the black congregation to his benefit as it is a community with power.  Wright taped a great deal of sermons and Obama is not to be found in any one of them.  It is sad in this country that you have to USE religious people or else you risk being ostracized from a largely gullible and stupid public.

1.  His parents were both communists/marxists and his father was a muslim. 

2.  Obama himself says he is a christian.  Do you have some secret info none of us are privy too?

 

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SAMSON123

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We are pleased to present a guest post on the very current issue of Haiti, written by Robert Taber, a doctoral candidate in Carribbean History at the University of Florida. Accordingly, he is well-versed in historical and cultural factors of Haiti, having spent significant time in the country.

---

Contrary to most people’s reactions to Pat Robertson’s remarks on Wednesday, his reference to Haiti’s “pact with the devil” did not appear out of thin air. As Matt Yglesias has pointed out this was a reference to the Bois Caiman ceremony at the beginning of the Haitian Revolution in 1791. This is not strictly a mangling of history on Robertson’s part. His comments come straight out of a blend of theology and history that, at the grassroots, pervades Haiti’s political discourse. Labeling the event at Bois Caiman a satanic pact touches on the most potent part of a vibrant oral tradition, a national myth that attempts to explain Haiti’s relationship with God and the world.

The French Revolution had been going on for two years when slave leaders gathered in the Caiman woods outside of what’s today Cap Haitien. The fighting between and within the white elite and the free mulatto population presented an excellent opportunity for general revolt. Most of the slaves present worked as overseers or coachmen for their respective masters, giving them freedom of movement and the right to carry swords. Dutty Boukman, a slave originally from Jamaica, and a priestess of disputed identity led a Voudou ceremony where they allegedly charged the gathered slaves “to throw away the image of the god of the whites who thirsts for our tears and listen to the voice of liberty that speaks in the hearts of all of us.” They then made an oath of secrecy and revenge, sealing it by drinking the blood of a sacrificed pig, a ceremony possibly West African in origin. This event bears a similar relationship to the Haitian Revolution as the Boston Tea Party does to the American Revolution—a critical event that helped galvanize the founding generation and forms a centerpoint for revolutionary legend today.

One of the first things that comes to mind in any discussion of Haiti, Voudou is a complex blending of West African and popular Catholic traditions. Paul Farmer gave the best description of Voudou’s place in Haitian culture and society when he thus described a firmly Christian peasant: “Of course he believes in Voudou. He just believes it’s wrong.” The Voudou question strikes at the heart of Haitian religious life. For its practitioners, Voudou offers a pantheon of friendly spirits, or lwas, that offer avenues to healing and hope. For its opponents, including many conservative Protestants and Catholics, it is spirit possession and satanic worship. The two sides disagree on what percentage of Voudou involves curses and malevolence, but both agree that such things are part of the religion. And, for those who oppose Voudou, Boukman’s ceremony in Bois Caiman sold the country to the devil.

For religious conservatives in Haiti and abroad, the idea that the leaders of the slave revolt led and participated in a Voudou ceremony provides a troubling contrast to presentations of the United States’ founding fathers as devout Christians, one that explains their vastly different fortunes. Many view the U.S. invasions and the rule of the Duvaliers as indications of the devil’s two hundred year lease on the country.

I first heard the story of the pact in late 2003. Protests against President Bertrand Aristide were rocking the small town of Petit-Goâve where I was volunteering for an international non-profit. My Haitian roommates explained that Aristide, as a poor Catholic priest, was involved in Voudou and had used the more violent lwa to build his political support. Once the first two hundred years of independence ended with the bicentennial on January 1, 2004, the devil’s hold on Haiti would loosen and Aristide’s support would vanish. I heard similar stories from other residents of Petit-Goâve and later from Haitians in the United States. Voudou had been responsible for independence, and it was responsible for Haiti’s inability to find a place on the world stage, for the reigns of the Duvaliers, for the ineptitude of Arisitide, and for the natural disasters that plagued the country. All of this, they said, would change once the bicentennial came.

Aristide left Haiti in February of 2004, but the happier, more prosperous era my associates hoped for has yet to arrive. Under the interim government of Gérard Lartortue, Port-au-Prince saw an increase in fighting between rival gangs and criminal networks perfect the art of kidnapping foreigners. Major hurricanes slammed the country repeatedly in 2004 and 2008, with the soaring cost of food causing its own problems. Then came this week’s earthquake. For the many Haitians who believe in the pact and the curse, who hoped for its end in 2004, the terrible devastation of Port-au-Prince raises existential questions for which there are few answers.

The history of Haiti is one of remarkable courage in the face of daunting odds. Fears of spreading slave revolt led the global community to isolate newly independent Haiti. In exchange for recognition of its hard-fought independence, France demanded a war-damage payment of 150 million francs—estimated at $21 billion in 2004 US dollars—that Haiti spent eighty years paying. Post-Castro worries about communism spreading in the Caribbean meant that the Eisenhower and Kennedy administrations looked the other way as Jean-Claude Duvalier solidified his iron grip. In 1983, The US Department of Agriculture’s concerns about African swine fever led to the indiscriminate slaughter of the pigs that formed the backbone of Haiti’s rural economy. One need not look to supernatural realms to find the devils plaguing Haiti.

The most generous reading of Rev. Robertson’s statement is one of searching for positive direction and building anew. Port-au-Prince last rose out of the rubble in 1770, twenty-one years before the people of Haiti began the West’s only successful slave revolt. We need to begin the discussion of how this rebuilding can match the glory of that remarkable achievement.

Robert Taber is a doctoral candidate in Carribbean History at the University of Florida. He can be contacted at robtaber@ufl.edu.

Yeah Right..

Every ass with a bullshit piece of degree can claim such shit and fools will believe it.
The only DEVIL in Haitis history are the whites who went to Haiti with the intention of destroying the people. Little did they know who they were messing with, but ask Napoleon whose ASS WAS THOROUGHLY KICKED by them and the French sent running back to France. Nice try Robertson you Satan worshiping bitch












C

The True Adonis

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1.  His parents were both communists/marxists and his father was a muslim. 

2.  Obama himself says he is a christian.  Do you have some secret info none of us are privy too?

 
1. In his second memoir, “The Audacity of Hope,” Obama added: “Although my father had been raised a Muslim, by the time he met my mother he was a confirmed atheist.”

2. The United States electorate is incredibly stupid, 40 percent believing Noah`s Ark literally.  To admit atheism, which Obama SHOULD DO in my opinion although he alludes to it all the time, is political suicide in this stupid country.

The True Adonis

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“I had a father who was born a Muslim but became an atheist, grandparents who were non-practicing Methodists and Baptists, and a mother who was skeptical of organized religion,” Obama said.

http://thedailyvoice.com/voice/2009/02/obama-declares-hate-is-not-a-r-001582.php

Thu, 05 Feb 2009 The Daily Voice

Soul Crusher

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1. In his second memoir, “The Audacity of Hope,” Obama added: “Although my father had been raised a Muslim, by the time he met my mother he was a confirmed atheist.”

2. The United States electorate is incredibly stupid, 40 percent believing Noah`s Ark literally.  To admit atheism, which Obama SHOULD DO in my opinion although he alludes to it all the time, is political suicide in this stupid country.

Hoe would he know that?  His father abandoned him as a kid no? 

The True Adonis

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Hoe would he know that?  His father abandoned him as a kid no? 
Are you serious?


So you mean to tell me you know absolutely NOTHING of your dead relatives?

My grandfather was a Socialist and an atheist and died before I was born.  How do you suspect that I know that?


Soul Crusher

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Are you serious?


So you mean to tell me you know absolutely NOTHING of your dead relatives?

My grandfather was a Socialist and an atheist and died before I was born.  How do you suspect that I know that?



What if they lied to him?  He is going on what people tell him.  We already know that he has no problem telling massive lies on many other topics.   

BTW - you are basically admitting that Obama is no different than the liars you yourself point your finger at.  You do realize that correct?   

MCWAY

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Obama is an atheist.  Both of his parents were atheist as was his grandparents.  Trust me, the apple has not fallen far from the tree in this respect.  He USED the black congregation to his benefit as it is a community with power.  Wright taped a great deal of sermons and Obama is not to be found in any one of them.  It is sad in this country that you have to USE religious people or else you risk being ostracized from a largely gullible and stupid public.

Obama's parents were supposedly atheists.....SO WHAT!!!

Madalyn Murray O'Hair was one of the biggest atheists in this country. Her son, William Murray, is a born-again Christian and a minister.

O'Hair disowned her son, because of it, calling it a "post-natal abortion".

What's your point!!

MCWAY

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What if they lied to him?  He is going on what people tell him.  We already know that he has no problem telling massive lies on many other topics.   

BTW - you are basically admitting that Obama is no different than the liars you yourself point your finger at.  You do realize that correct?   

But, he and another cracked poster (Hint: he thinks America never really won a war) believe it's OK to lie and be dishonest, for political gain, as long as your lying about your Christian faith (allegedly pretending to be Christian, when you're not).

The True Adonis

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What if they lied to him?  He is going on what people tell him.  We already know that he has no problem telling massive lies on many other topics.   

BTW - you are basically admitting that Obama is no different than the liars you yourself point your finger at.  You do realize that correct?   
Muslims are more respected than Atheists in this country.  Don`t you think it would serve him better to never  mention that his father was an atheist for that simple fact?  What would he have to gain in that regard?

I do think Obama should never have USED religion.  We have had several atheist Presidents already, Theodore Roosevelt refused to use a bible in his inauguration...etc...  In time religious lunacy will be done away with.

loco

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Obama is an atheist.  Both of his parents were atheist as was his grandparents.

“I had a father who was born a Muslim but became an atheist, grandparents who were non-practicing Methodists and Baptists, and a mother who was skeptical of organized religion,” Obama said.

http://thedailyvoice.com/voice/2009/02/obama-declares-hate-is-not-a-r-001582.php

Thu, 05 Feb 2009 The Daily Voice

Methodists and Baptists, whether practicing or not, aren't atheists.

Skeptics of organized religion aren't necessarily atheists.

MCWAY

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Muslims are more respected than Atheists in this country.  Don`t you think it would serve him better to never  mention that his father was an atheist for that simple fact?  What would he have to gain in that regard?

What are you talking about? Obama's daddy didn't run for office. Obama did. Besides, as you clearly missed from my O'Hair/Murray example, your parents being atheists doesn't necessarily equate to your being one.


I do think Obama should never have USED religion.  We have had several atheist Presidents already, Theodore Roosevelt refused to use a bible in his inauguration...etc...  In time religious lunacy will be done away with.

Atheists like you have been trying to get rid of religion (Christianity, in particular) for CENTURIES. It ain't gonna happen!!

Christianity outlasted the Roman empire. It will certainly outlast self-proclaimed "enlightened" atheists!!

Besides, when has Obama EVER STATED that he does NOT believe in God?

Skip8282

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2. The United States electorate is incredibly stupid, 40 percent believing Noah`s Ark literally.  To admit atheism, which Obama SHOULD DO in my opinion although he alludes to it all the time, is political suicide in this stupid country.

What was that you were saying in the other thread about facts and interpretation?  Exactly.  You have no fact to show he's an atheist, only your interpretation that he might be.

BM OUT

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Muslims are more respected than Atheists in this country.  Don`t you think it would serve him better to never  mention that his father was an atheist for that simple fact?  What would he have to gain in that regard?

I do think Obama should never have USED religion.  We have had several atheist Presidents already, Theodore Roosevelt refused to use a bible in his inauguration...etc...  In time religious lunacy will be done away with.

Obama believed EVERY word spoken by Wright,which is why he wrote a book based on his sermon,which is why he used to go to bed listening to wrights sermons on head phones because it soothed him,which is why Wright performed the marriage service and baptisms.Please,your reaching.You do things for politics for months or a couple of years NOT 20 years!!!!!!!!!!!

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Yeah Right..

Every ass with a bullshit piece of degree can claim such shit and fools will believe it.
The only DEVIL in Haitis history are the whites who went to Haiti with the intention of destroying the people. Little did they know who they were messing with, but ask Napoleon whose ASS WAS THOROUGHLY KICKED by them and the French sent running back to France. Nice try Robertson you Satan worshiping bitch














YES!!!!!!AND Haiti has done very well being run by blacks like Pappa Doc and Baby Doc and Aristide.The people make 2 dollars a day,no infastructure,houses made of mud.About typical for a black run nation.

dario73

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What are you talking about? Obama's daddy didn't run for office. Obama did. Besides, as you clearly missed from my O'Hair/Murray example, your parents being atheists doesn't necessarily equate to your being one.

Atheists like you have been trying to get rid of religion (Christianity, in particular) for CENTURIES. It ain't gonna happen!!

Christianity outlasted the Roman empire. It will certainly outlast self-proclaimed "enlightened" atheists!!

Besides, when has Obama EVER STATED that he does NOT believe in God?

DAMN! You got owned Adonis. I don't think politics is your thing. Stick to the gossip forum. You are much better at spewing bs and giving biscuit recipes.

Soul Crusher

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DAMN! You got owned Adonis. I don't think politics is your thing. Stick to the gossip forum. You are much better at spewing bs and giving biscuit recipes.

I like TA and think his heart is really in the right place.  He does not come across as a malicious person to me in any respect. 

However, on politics, I thought he learned his lesson, but I guess not. 

The True Adonis

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I like TA and think his heart is really in the right place.  He does not come across as a malicious person to me in any respect. 
However, on politics, I thought he learned his lesson, but I guess not. 
I like you too my friend and I think you want the best in some sort of individualized manner.  I also respect that you can sift through my sometimes harsh and direct tone.


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where in christianity anywhere is it possible for a nation to make a pact with the devil?  does a nation have a soul?  does a nation's pact condemn the souls of the people and all people born there after said silly pact?

Pat, as usual is a dipshit....