Author Topic: Al's back, and the BS is deep  (Read 5540 times)

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2010, 06:32:14 AM »

GWB was bad, but lets not go overboard and make him out to be the worst ever, cause he is not.  He sucked, but was not the worst ever. 


Yes he was.  Of all past Presidents, he was by far the worst.

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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2010, 06:32:59 AM »
Yes he was.  Of all past Presidents, he was by far the worst.

Please, grow up and read a history book.   

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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2010, 07:04:19 AM »
Cool your dramatics and grasp reality.

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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2010, 07:07:48 AM »
Cool your dramatics and grasp reality.

Show me any serious historian who considers W the worst ever. 

   

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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2010, 07:20:38 AM »
GWB wasnt even in the same league as Jimmy Carter.Its not even a comparrison.UE at 20% interest rates through the roof,gas lines,hostages in captivity.Carter was BY FAR the worst president this country ever has had and the worst former president we have ever had as well.A total disgrace as a human being.

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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2010, 07:34:31 AM »
Cool your dramatics and grasp reality.
quote of the day....

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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2010, 07:41:03 AM »
quote of the day....

Hey Cha Cha - Can you show me the credible historian who thinks W was the worst ever? 

 

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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2010, 07:41:44 AM »
Hey Cha Cha - Can you show me the credible historian who thinks W was the worst ever? 

 


he is to me...how bout that chief

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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2010, 07:44:24 AM »

he is to me...how bout that chief

Nothing he did comes close to the shit pile that Jimmy Carter put the country in.Remember this,Bush had 54 cosecutive months of job growth ,it only ended once that loon Pelosi came in and won the congress.Jimmy Carter had a worse[much much worse]economy,he did nothing about the hostages,gas lines miles long.He is the worst by miles.You werent born yet so you have no perspective of how bad it was under that disgrace.

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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2010, 07:45:32 AM »

he is to me...how bout that chief

Why is that?  Have you ever read a history book?  There were far worse presidents in our history than W.  He sucked but he is not the worst. 

Look up Warren Harding, Buchanan, and others. 
 

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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2010, 07:48:14 AM »
Why is that?  Have you ever read a history book?  There were far worse presidents in our history than W.  He sucked but he is not the worst. 

Look up Warren Harding, Buchanan, and others. 
 

My guess is that Mal is to young to remember Carter, hate to admit it, but I'm not. Carter was the worst POTUS that I can remember.
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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2010, 07:51:18 AM »
Hey Cha Cha - Can you show me the credible historian who thinks W was the worst ever? 

 



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Log In4-01-08

HNN Poll: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst

 

Joseph E. Stiglitz and Linda J. Bilmes: The $10 trillion hangover ... Paying the price for eight years of Bush

Nate Silver: History May -- or May Not -- Judge Bush More Kindly

“As far as history goes and all of these quotes about people trying to guess what the history of the Bush administration is going to be, you know, I take great comfort in knowing that they don’t know what they are talking about, because history takes a long time for us to reach.”— George W. Bush, Fox News Sunday, Feb10, 2008

A Pew Research Center poll released last week found that the share of the American public that approves of President George W. Bush has dropped to a new low of 28 percent.

An unscientific poll of professional historians completed the same week produced results far worse for a president clinging to the hope that history will someday take a kinder view of his presidency than does contemporary public opinion.



In an informal survey of 109 professional historians conducted over a three-week period through the History News Network, 98.2 percent assessed the presidency of Mr. Bush to be a failure while 1.8 percent classified it as a success.
 

Asked to rank the presidency of George W. Bush in comparison to those of the other 41 American presidents, more than 61 percent of the historians concluded that the current presidency is the worst in the nation’s history. Another 35 percent of the historians surveyed rated the Bush presidency in the 31st to 41st category, while only four of the 109 respondents ranked the current presidency as even among the top two-thirds of American administrations.

 

At least two of those who ranked the current president in the 31-41 ranking made it clear that they placed him next-to-last, with only James Buchanan, in their view, being worse. He is easily one of the 10-worst of all time and—if the magnitude of the challenges and opportunities matter—then probably in the bottom five, alongside Buchanan, Johnson, Fillmore, and Pierce,” wrote another historian.
 The reason for the hesitancy some historians had in categorizing the Bush presidency as the worst ever, which led them to place it instead in the “nearly the worst” group, was well expressed by another historian who said, “It is a bit too early to judge whether Bush's presidency is the worst ever, though it certainly has a shot to take the title.  Without a doubt, it is among the worst.”

In a similar survey of historians I conducted for HNN four years ago, Mr. Bush had fared somewhat better, with 19 percent rating his presidency a success and 81 percent classifying it as a failure. More striking is the dramatic increase in the percentage of historians who rate the Bush presidency the worst ever. In 2004, only 11.6 percent of the respondents rated Bush’s presidency last. That conclusion is now reached by nearly six times as large a fraction of historians.

There are at least two obvious criticisms of such a survey. It is in no sense a scientific sample of historians. The participants are self-selected, although participation was open to all historians. Among those who responded are several of the nation’s most respected historians, including Pulitzer and Bancroft Prize winners.

The second criticism that is often raised of historians making such assessments of a current president is that it is far too early. We do not yet know how the things that Mr. Bush has done will work out in the future. As the only respondent who classified the current presidency among the ten best noted, “Any judgment of his ‘success’ or lack thereof is premature in that the ultimate effects of his policies are not yet known.” True enough. But this historian went on to make his current evaluation, giving Bush “high marks for courage in his willingness to attack intractable problems in the Near East and to touch the Social Security ‘Third Rail.’ ”
  
Historians are in a better position than others to make judgments about how a current president’s policies and actions compare with those of his predecessors. Those judgments are always subject to change in light of future developments. But that is no reason not to make them now.

The comments that many of the respondents included with their evaluations provide a clear sense of the reasons behind the overwhelming consensus that George W. Bush’s presidency is among the worst in American history.

“No individual president can compare to the second Bush,” wrote one. “Glib, contemptuous, ignorant, incurious, a dupe of anyone who humors his deluded belief in his heroic self, he has bankrupted the country with his disastrous war and his tax breaks for the rich, trampled on the Bill of Rights, appointed foxes in every henhouse, compounded the terrorist threat, turned a blind eye to torture and corruption and a looming ecological disaster, and squandered the rest of the world’s goodwill. In short, no other president’s faults have had so deleterious an effect on not only the country but the world at large.”

With his unprovoked and disastrous war of aggression in Iraq and his monstrous deficits, Bush has set this country on a course that will take decades to correct,” said another historian. “When future historians look back to identify the moment at which the United States began to lose its position of world leadership, they will point—rightly—to the Bush presidency. Thanks to his policies, it is now easy to see America losing out to its competitors in any number of area: China is rapidly becoming the manufacturing powerhouse of the next century, India the high tech and services leader, and Europe the region with the best quality of life.”

One historian indicated that his reason for rating Bush as worst is that the current president combines traits of some of his failed predecessors: “the paranoia of Nixon, the ethics of Harding and the good sense of Herbert Hoover. . . . . God willing, this will go down as the nadir of American politics.” Another classified Bush as “an ideologue who got the nation into a totally unnecessary war, and has broken the Constitution more often than even Nixon. He is not a conservative, nor a Christian, just an immoral man . . . .” Still another remarked that Bush’s “denial of any personal responsibility can only be described as silly.”

It would be difficult to identify a President who, facing major international and domestic crises, has failed in both as clearly as President Bush,” concluded one respondent. “His domestic policies,” another noted, “have had the cumulative effect of shoring up a semi-permanent aristocracy of capital that dwarfs the aristocracy of land against which the founding fathers rebelled; of encouraging a mindless retreat from science and rationalism; and of crippling the nation’s economic base.”

“George Bush has combined mediocrity with malevolent policies and has thus seriously damaged the welfare and standing of the United States,” wrote one of the historians, echoing the assessments of many of his professional colleagues. “Bush does only two things well,” said one of the most distinguished historians.  “He knows how to make the very rich very much richer, and he has an amazing talent for f**king up everything else he even approaches.  His administration has been the most reckless, dangerous, irresponsible, mendacious, arrogant, self-righteous, incompetent, and deeply corrupt one in all of American history.”

Four years ago I rated George W. Bush’s presidency as the second worst, a bit above that of James Buchanan. Now, however, like so many other professional historians, I see the administration of the second Bush as clearly the worst in our history. My reasons are similar to those cited by other historians: In the wake of the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001, the United States enjoyed enormous support around the world. President Bush squandered that goodwill by taking the country into an unnecessary war of choice and misleading the American people to gain support for that war. And he failed utterly to have a plan to deal with Iraq after the invasion. He further undermined the international reputation of the United States by justifying torture.

Mr. Bush inherited a sizable budget surplus and a thriving economy. By pushing through huge tax cuts for the rich while increasing federal spending at a rapid rate, Bush transformed the surplus into a massive deficit. The tax cuts and other policies accelerated the concentration of wealth and income among the very richest Americans. These policies combined with unwavering opposition to necessary government regulations have produced the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. Then there is the incredible shrinking dollar, the appointment of incompetent cronies, the totally inexcusable failure to react properly to the disaster of Hurricane Katrina, the blatant disregard for the Constitution—and on and on.

Like a majority of other historians who participated in this poll, my conclusion is that the preponderance of the evidence now indicates that, while this nation has had at least its share of failed presidencies, no previous presidency was as large a failure in so many areas as the current one.





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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2010, 07:52:45 AM »
Again, there was no budget surplus, I have already posted the info from the treasury dept.
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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2010, 07:55:06 AM »
My guess is that Mal is to young to remember Carter, hate to admit it, but I'm not. Carter was the worst POTUS that I can remember.
Thats what my dad said...he was in the oil business at that time...energy crisis and unemployment..we were in the shitter...but how much of that was policy from him...i dont know...

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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2010, 07:57:08 AM »
There was no budget surplus.

W inherited the dot bomb collapse, a small recession, a repeal of Glass Steagal, and other messes.

Yes he sucked, but give me a break with your story.   

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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2010, 07:58:44 AM »
Thats what my dad said...he was in the oil business at that time...energy crisis and unemployment..we were in the shitter...but how much of that was policy from him...i dont know...

The biggest problem with Carter was he was weak, and other nations knew it.
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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2010, 08:08:51 AM »
There was no budget surplus.

W inherited the dot bomb collapse, a small recession, a repeal of Glass Steagal, and other messes.

Yes he sucked, but give me a break with your story.   


Chump..you asked for something and i gave it to you...Dude is considered the worst by a country mile cha cha...sorry suzie...when you send troups to die for no good reason...yeah i would consider you the worst...especially when those troops were my brother, cousin, good friend...of which 1 came back.....yeah chump...i have a problem with broskie

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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2010, 08:13:35 AM »

Chump..you asked for something and i gave it to you...Dude is considered the worst by a country mile cha cha...sorry suzie...when you send troups to die for no good reason...yeah i would consider you the worst...especially when those troops were my brother, cousin, good friend...of which 1 came back.....yeah chump...i have a problem with broskie

Presidents throughout history have done the same thing.  Read a history book.  W sucked and was very bad, but he was not the worst. 

 

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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2010, 08:26:09 AM »


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Log In4-01-08

HNN Poll: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst

 

Joseph E. Stiglitz and Linda J. Bilmes: The $10 trillion hangover ... Paying the price for eight years of Bush

Nate Silver: History May -- or May Not -- Judge Bush More Kindly

“As far as history goes and all of these quotes about people trying to guess what the history of the Bush administration is going to be, you know, I take great comfort in knowing that they don’t know what they are talking about, because history takes a long time for us to reach.”— George W. Bush, Fox News Sunday, Feb10, 2008

A Pew Research Center poll released last week found that the share of the American public that approves of President George W. Bush has dropped to a new low of 28 percent.

An unscientific poll of professional historians completed the same week produced results far worse for a president clinging to the hope that history will someday take a kinder view of his presidency than does contemporary public opinion.



In an informal survey of 109 professional historians conducted over a three-week period through the History News Network, 98.2 percent assessed the presidency of Mr. Bush to be a failure while 1.8 percent classified it as a success.
 

Asked to rank the presidency of George W. Bush in comparison to those of the other 41 American presidents, more than 61 percent of the historians concluded that the current presidency is the worst in the nation’s history. Another 35 percent of the historians surveyed rated the Bush presidency in the 31st to 41st category, while only four of the 109 respondents ranked the current presidency as even among the top two-thirds of American administrations.

 

At least two of those who ranked the current president in the 31-41 ranking made it clear that they placed him next-to-last, with only James Buchanan, in their view, being worse. He is easily one of the 10-worst of all time and—if the magnitude of the challenges and opportunities matter—then probably in the bottom five, alongside Buchanan, Johnson, Fillmore, and Pierce,” wrote another historian.
 The reason for the hesitancy some historians had in categorizing the Bush presidency as the worst ever, which led them to place it instead in the “nearly the worst” group, was well expressed by another historian who said, “It is a bit too early to judge whether Bush's presidency is the worst ever, though it certainly has a shot to take the title.  Without a doubt, it is among the worst.”

In a similar survey of historians I conducted for HNN four years ago, Mr. Bush had fared somewhat better, with 19 percent rating his presidency a success and 81 percent classifying it as a failure. More striking is the dramatic increase in the percentage of historians who rate the Bush presidency the worst ever. In 2004, only 11.6 percent of the respondents rated Bush’s presidency last. That conclusion is now reached by nearly six times as large a fraction of historians.

There are at least two obvious criticisms of such a survey. It is in no sense a scientific sample of historians. The participants are self-selected, although participation was open to all historians. Among those who responded are several of the nation’s most respected historians, including Pulitzer and Bancroft Prize winners.

The second criticism that is often raised of historians making such assessments of a current president is that it is far too early. We do not yet know how the things that Mr. Bush has done will work out in the future. As the only respondent who classified the current presidency among the ten best noted, “Any judgment of his ‘success’ or lack thereof is premature in that the ultimate effects of his policies are not yet known.” True enough. But this historian went on to make his current evaluation, giving Bush “high marks for courage in his willingness to attack intractable problems in the Near East and to touch the Social Security ‘Third Rail.’ ”
  
Historians are in a better position than others to make judgments about how a current president’s policies and actions compare with those of his predecessors. Those judgments are always subject to change in light of future developments. But that is no reason not to make them now.

The comments that many of the respondents included with their evaluations provide a clear sense of the reasons behind the overwhelming consensus that George W. Bush’s presidency is among the worst in American history.

“No individual president can compare to the second Bush,” wrote one. “Glib, contemptuous, ignorant, incurious, a dupe of anyone who humors his deluded belief in his heroic self, he has bankrupted the country with his disastrous war and his tax breaks for the rich, trampled on the Bill of Rights, appointed foxes in every henhouse, compounded the terrorist threat, turned a blind eye to torture and corruption and a looming ecological disaster, and squandered the rest of the world’s goodwill. In short, no other president’s faults have had so deleterious an effect on not only the country but the world at large.”

With his unprovoked and disastrous war of aggression in Iraq and his monstrous deficits, Bush has set this country on a course that will take decades to correct,” said another historian. “When future historians look back to identify the moment at which the United States began to lose its position of world leadership, they will point—rightly—to the Bush presidency. Thanks to his policies, it is now easy to see America losing out to its competitors in any number of area: China is rapidly becoming the manufacturing powerhouse of the next century, India the high tech and services leader, and Europe the region with the best quality of life.”

One historian indicated that his reason for rating Bush as worst is that the current president combines traits of some of his failed predecessors: “the paranoia of Nixon, the ethics of Harding and the good sense of Herbert Hoover. . . . . God willing, this will go down as the nadir of American politics.” Another classified Bush as “an ideologue who got the nation into a totally unnecessary war, and has broken the Constitution more often than even Nixon. He is not a conservative, nor a Christian, just an immoral man . . . .” Still another remarked that Bush’s “denial of any personal responsibility can only be described as silly.”

It would be difficult to identify a President who, facing major international and domestic crises, has failed in both as clearly as President Bush,” concluded one respondent. “His domestic policies,” another noted, “have had the cumulative effect of shoring up a semi-permanent aristocracy of capital that dwarfs the aristocracy of land against which the founding fathers rebelled; of encouraging a mindless retreat from science and rationalism; and of crippling the nation’s economic base.”

“George Bush has combined mediocrity with malevolent policies and has thus seriously damaged the welfare and standing of the United States,” wrote one of the historians, echoing the assessments of many of his professional colleagues. “Bush does only two things well,” said one of the most distinguished historians.  “He knows how to make the very rich very much richer, and he has an amazing talent for f**king up everything else he even approaches.  His administration has been the most reckless, dangerous, irresponsible, mendacious, arrogant, self-righteous, incompetent, and deeply corrupt one in all of American history.”

Four years ago I rated George W. Bush’s presidency as the second worst, a bit above that of James Buchanan. Now, however, like so many other professional historians, I see the administration of the second Bush as clearly the worst in our history. My reasons are similar to those cited by other historians: In the wake of the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001, the United States enjoyed enormous support around the world. President Bush squandered that goodwill by taking the country into an unnecessary war of choice and misleading the American people to gain support for that war. And he failed utterly to have a plan to deal with Iraq after the invasion. He further undermined the international reputation of the United States by justifying torture.

Mr. Bush inherited a sizable budget surplus and a thriving economy. By pushing through huge tax cuts for the rich while increasing federal spending at a rapid rate, Bush transformed the surplus into a massive deficit. The tax cuts and other policies accelerated the concentration of wealth and income among the very richest Americans. These policies combined with unwavering opposition to necessary government regulations have produced the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. Then there is the incredible shrinking dollar, the appointment of incompetent cronies, the totally inexcusable failure to react properly to the disaster of Hurricane Katrina, the blatant disregard for the Constitution—and on and on.

Like a majority of other historians who participated in this poll, my conclusion is that the preponderance of the evidence now indicates that, while this nation has had at least its share of failed presidencies, no previous presidency was as large a failure in so many areas as the current one.






61% just shot down 333's silly claim.

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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2010, 08:28:39 AM »
Bush came in at the start of a recession.This is left wing revisionist history.His tax cuts caused 54 consecutive months of job growth untill pelosi killed it.

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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2010, 08:30:06 AM »
On C-SPAN, Historians Rate W the 7th Worst President Ever
February 15, 2009 9:41 AM


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This morning we learn that C-SPAN has surveyed historians to again come up with a President's Day ranking of commanders-in-chief.

Fittingly, for this Abe-a-licious year, the 16th president comes in at #1, with Honest Abe Lincoln retaining his top slot.

He's followed by George Washington, FDR, Teddy Roosevelt, and Harry S Truman in the top five slots. JFK, Thomas Jefferson, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Woodrow Wilson, and Ronald Reagan finish out the Top Ten.

The worst president, as judged by the panel of historians, is James Buchanan.

Second worst -- Lincoln's successor, Andrew Johnson.

Third worst - Franklin Pierce. Fourth worst - William Henry Harrison. Fifth worst - Warren G. Harding. Sixth worst - Millard Fillmore.

And there he is, George W. Bush, ranked as 7th worst. (8th worst is John Tyler.)

Reagan, Clinton and George H.W. Bush have all advanced in rankings since the last time C-SPAN did this survey, in 2000. Bill Clinton back then was ranked 21st; he's now 15th. Reagan went from 11 to 10. Bush Sr. went from 20 to 18.

Jimmy Carter, interestingly went down -- from 22 to 25.

"Bill Clinton and Ulysses S. Grant aren't often mentioned in the same sentence - until now," said historian Richard Norton Smith. "Participants in the latest C-SPAN survey of presidential historians have boosted each man significantly higher than in the original survey conducted in 2000. All of which goes to show two things: the fluidity with which presidential reputations are judged, and the difficulty of assessing any president who has only just recently left office."

This all gives me an excuse to show this video of the late great Peter Jennings asking Bill Clinton about the rankings -- in particular about Clinton ranking 41st on "moral authority," behind Richard Nixon. Compelling video.

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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2010, 08:43:08 AM »
Bush came in at the start of a recession.This is left wing revisionist history.His tax cuts caused 54 consecutive months of job growth untill pelosi killed it.

lets be real..the dot com bubble was nothing like a real recession where significant amounts of jobs are lost.

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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2010, 08:47:56 AM »
lets be real..the dot com bubble was nothing like a real recession where significant amounts of jobs are lost.

Of course not, but the point is that Bush did not inherit a growing and great economy as some want to point out. 

Additionally, the repeal of Glass Steagal, which was signed by clinton, and pushed by Sommers, Geithner, Rubin and Grahmm had a huge influence on why we are in the present disaster we are in. 

Yes W sucked, however, its completely ridiculous to blame everything on him and not acknowledge other huge things that took place that he did not have anything to do with.   

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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2010, 08:57:59 AM »
oh i agree. Bush didnt inherit a surplus but clinton along with newt did hack down the deficit. The bush exploded it.

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Re: Al's back, and the BS is deep
« Reply #49 on: March 03, 2010, 09:00:58 AM »
oh i agree. Bush didnt inherit a surplus but clinton along with newt did hack down the deficit. The bush exploded it.

Agreed 10x over.  The drug bill was a disaster, as were many other things.  The amnesty for illegals, dubai ports, harriet meirs, CFR, it was a complete mess. 

But he is not alone, he had a complicit GOP congress and then even worse when Pelosi took over.