Author Topic: All things "Birther" Thread  (Read 335271 times)

Soul Crusher

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1725 on: June 14, 2011, 08:13:10 PM »
FN Contributor Maj Gen Vallely: Ret CIA Agents Look At Obama's Birth Certificate, Say it's a Fraud
obamareleaseyourrecords. blogspot.com ^ | 06/14/2011 | ObamaRelease YourRecords
Posted on June 14, 2011 9:00:44 PM EDT by rxsid

"Fox News Contributor Major General Paul Vallely: Retired CIA Agents I've Had Look At Obama's Birth Certificate Say It Is Fraudulent

Video: Fox News Contributor Major General Paul Vallely: I've had retired CIA Agents and Investigators look at Obama's birth certificate and 10 out of 10 say it is fraudulent. The interview aired on the Terry Lakin Action Fund radio show 6/13/2011.

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1726 on: June 15, 2011, 12:03:43 AM »
Video: Fox News Contributor Major General Paul Vallely: I've had retired CIA Agents and Investigators look at Obama's birth certificate and 10 out of 10 say it is fraudulent. The interview aired on the Terry Lakin Action Fund radio show 6/13/2011.


Yet none of these 10 will go on the record with their belief.


33, I could say I have 100,000 retired military experts that say I'm certifiably more awesome than you.  It's a fact unless you can't prove otherwise?

chadstallion

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1727 on: June 15, 2011, 05:43:36 AM »
A rose is a rose is a rose....Gertrude Stein.
w

Soul Crusher

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1728 on: June 15, 2011, 09:05:43 AM »
Hawaii claims Obama 'birth certificate' is 'confidential' Refuses subpoena...
World Net Daily ^ | 6/14/11 | Bob Unruh


________________________ ____________________



The state of Hawaii claims that the "birth certificate" for Barack Obama in its files – presumably the document that was copied and distributed by the White House – remains confidential.

The image released April 27 by the White House was described by administration officials as "proof positive" of Obama's Hawaiian birth.

At that time, officials in Hawaii's health department and governor's office refused to provide confirmation to WND that the image released by the White House accurately represented the birth documentation in the state's custody.

Now, officials have refused to respond to a subpoena requesting the birth record, citing confidentiality...


(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...






 ???

Soul Crusher

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1729 on: June 16, 2011, 02:19:07 PM »
Ex-CIA: 'Forged document' released as birth certificate
World Net Daily ^ | June 15, 2011 | Bob Unruh


________________________ ________________________ ________



Retired Maj. Gen. Paul Vallely, the chief of Stand Up America U.S., a national security expert and a Fox News contributor, says the "Certificate of Live Birth" released in April by the White House as "proof positive" of President Obama's Hawaiian birth is a forgery, but the FBI is covering the fraud and no one in Congress is willing to tackle the situation because of fears of a "black backlash" if the failings of the nation's first black president are revealed.

In an interview today with Greg Corombos for WND, Vallely, who previously has expressed concerns about whether the Obama administration is in violation of the U.S. Constitution, said, "His actual birth certificate has never been found in Hawaii nor released from Hawaii hospital there, Kapiolani hospital there, if it in fact did exist."

"We've had three CIA agents, retired, and some of their analytical associates look at it, and all came to the same conclusion, that even the long-form was a forged document," Vallely said.

"No members of Congress will take this on. The word I get out of Washington is that they don't want to challenge this because it would be in fact a felony offense and in some cases may be even treasonous and [they are] afraid of a black backlash from some of the urban areas," Vallely said.

SNIP

"I think they're (the FBI) covering for this administration. I think the corruption within this administration is so proliferated through the agencies of government now, we're just in a bad situation here. I think the lack of confidence in our government is growing and many feel that not only all the members of Congress but even our courts are corrupted at this time," he said


(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...


OzmO

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1730 on: June 16, 2011, 02:33:39 PM »
Wnd is marginalized.  Until something other than a Birther mouthpiece site, something with real credibility starts making noise, nothing significant will happen. 

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1731 on: June 22, 2011, 09:13:53 AM »
http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/us-supreme-court-precedent-states-that-obama-is-not-eligible-to-be-president/

US SUPREME COURT PRECEDENT STATES THAT OBAMA IS NOT ELIGIBLE TO BE PRESIDENT.

The title of this article is correct.  After having completed a more thorough review of the relevant US Supreme Court cases discussing the Constitution’s natural-born citizen clause, I have discovered precedent which states that a natural-born citizen is a person born in the jurisdiction of the US to parents who are citizens.  Read that again.  I said precedent, not dicta.  The precedent holds that Obama is not eligible to be President of the United States.

Up until the publication of this report today, all discussion of the natural-born citizen issue (from both sides of the argument) agreed there had never been a precedent established by the US Supreme Court, and that the various cases which mentioned the clause did so in “dicta”.

Dicta are authoritative statements made by a court which are not binding legal precedent.

Black’s Law Dictionary defines “precedent” as a “rule of law established for the first time by a court for a particular type of case and thereafter referred to in deciding similar cases“.

Precedent that must be followed is known as binding precedent.  Under the doctrine of stare decisis, a lower court must honor findings of law made by a higher court.  On questions as to the meaning of federal law including the U.S. Constitution, statutes, and regulations, the U.S. Supreme Court’s precedents must be followed.

It can no longer be denied that there is controlling US Supreme Court precedent concerning the definition of a natural-born citizen according to Article 2 Section 1 of the US Constitution.  I predict satori will overcome those of you who have labored over this issue.  This is not a remote obscure reading.  It is, when revealed, a clear undeniable holding and binding precedent established by the highest Court of our nation which specifically defines an Article 2 Section 1 natural-born citizen as a person born in the US to parents who are citizens.

Therefore, Obama – according to US Supreme Court precedent – is not eligible to be President.

PRECEDENT ESTABLISHED BY MINOR V. HAPPERSETT

The direct US Supreme Court precedent is stated in Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162 (1875).  Furthermore, the precedent stated in Minor is consistent with other US Supreme Court cases – both before and afterMinor – which discuss the natural born citizen issue.  While that part of the holding in Minor regarding woman’s suffrage was superseded by the 19th Amendment – which Constitutionally established a woman’s right to vote – the rest of the case is good law.  And the remaining precedent stated regarding the definition of “natural-born citizen” – with regard to Article 2 Section 1 of the US Constitution – is still binding upon all lower courts.

Therefore, lower court decisions – such as the holding in Ankeny v. Governor of the State of Indiana – which have misconstrued the US Supreme Court’s holding in Minor v. Happersett are wrong.  Below, we will review what the Indiana Court of Appeals had to say and explain why they got it wrong.  But first we must revisit Minor v. Happersett.

THE SUPREME COURT IN MINOR V. HAPPERSETT DIRECTLY CONSTRUED THE US CONSTITUTION’S ARTICLE 2 SECTION 1 NATURAL BORN CITIZEN CLAUSE

Before revisiting Minor, we must revisit Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898) to review a clearly erroneous statement made by Justice Gray concerning the prior holding in the Minor case:

In Minor v. Happersett, Chief Justice Waite, when construing, in behalf of the court, the very provision of the Fourteenth Amendment now in question, said: ‘The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that.’ “  (Wong Kim Ark at 655.)

This unfortunate remark by Justice Gray contains a clearly erroneous statement.  The Supreme Court in Minor did not construe the 14th Amendment as to the issue of citizenship.  Gray is absolutely wrong.  The Court in Minor construed Article 2 Section 1, not the 14th Amendment.  For over a century, it has been wrongly assumed that the Court in Minor did construe the 14th Amendment, and that the holding of Minor was later superseded by Wong Kim Ark.  This is not correct.

A more careful reading of the Supreme Court’s opinion in Minor makes it clear that it did not construe the 14th Amendment with regard to the citizenship of the woman who wished to vote.  The question presented was whether, since the adoption of the 14th Amendment, women had gained the right to vote.  The Supreme Court in Minor held that nowhere in the Constitution, including the 14th Amendment, was anyone, man or woman, granted a right to vote.  And it was only this part of the Minor case which was superseded by the 19th Amendment.

The other issue decided by the Court in Minor required the Supreme Court to determine if the woman was, in fact, a US citizen.  As to this determination, the Court did not construe the 14th Amendment.  In fact, the Court specifically avoided construing the 14th Amendment with regard to her citizenship.  Instead, the Supreme Court in Minor chose to construe Article 2 Section 1:

There is no doubt that women may be citizens. They are persons, and by the fourteenth amendment ‘all persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof ‘ are expressly declared to be ‘citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.’ But, in our opinion, it did not need this amendment to give them that position …

“The fourteenth amendment did not affect the citizenship of women any more than it did of men. In this particular, therefore, the rights of Mrs. Minor do not depend upon the amendment. She has always been a citizen from her birth, and entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizenship. The amendment prohibited the State, of which she is a citizen, from abridging any of her privileges and immunities as a citizen of the United States; but it did not confer citizenship on her. That she had before its adoption. If the right of suffrage is one of the necessary privileges of a citizen of the United States, then the constitution and laws of Missouri confining it to men are in violation of the Constitution of the United States, as amended, and consequently void. The direct question is, therefore, presented whether all citizens are necessarily voters.  (Emphasis added.)

There you have it.  The Court stops short of construing the 14th Amendment as to whether the woman in question was a US citizen.  The Court made a certain, direct determination that Mrs. Minor was a US citizen before the adoption of the 14th Amendment and that she did not need the 14th Amendment to be a US citizen.

The Court then, having determined that she was a US citizen, avoided any construction of the 14th Amendment as to her citizenship status.   Therefore, the holding in Minor is in no way superseded by Wong Kim Ark.

The Court in Minor went on to decide the issue of whether citizens are granted a right to vote by the Constitution, holding that it did not.  Again, this part of the holding was superseded by the 19th Amendment, but the determination that Mrs. Minor was a “natural-born citizen” is still controlling precedent.

Since the Court in Minor specifically avoided construing the 14th Amendment as to citizenship, it is clear that Justice Gray’s statement – concerning the citizenship passage by Justice Waite in Minor – was clearly erroneous.  The Supreme Court in Minor chose to construe Article 2 Section 1 instead of the 14th Amendment.  As such, Minor is the only US Supreme Court case which has directly construed the Article 2 Section 1 natural-born citizen clause.   Therefore, Minor’s construction below creates binding legal precedent:

Additions might always be made to the citizenship of the United States in two ways: first, by birth, and second, by naturalization. This is apparent from the Constitution itself, for it provides that  ‘no person except a natural-born citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President,‘ and that Congress shall have power ‘to establish a uniform rule of naturalization.’ Thus new citizens may be born or they may be created by naturalization.

The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient for everything we have now to consider that all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens.“  (Emphasis added.)

Whether the holding here was influenced by Vattel is not truly important.  Sure, it looks just like Vattel’s definition, but Vattel does not make legal precedent – the US Supreme Court does.  All that matters here is what the Supreme court held.  So we must carefully examine the actual words stated by the Supreme Court.  We must not allow ourselves to be guided by what the Supreme Court did not say.  What the Court actually said is what makes law.

In the above passage, the Court noted that Mrs. Minor was born in the US to parents who were citizens.  The Court stated that such persons were “natural-born citizens”.  The Court also stated – as to such persons – that their “citizenship” was never in doubt.

By recognizing Mrs. Minor as a member of the class of persons who were natural-born citizens, they established her citizenship.  Establishing her citizenship was required before they could get to the issue of whether she had the right to vote.  In doing so, the Court in Minor directly construed Article 2 Section 1 of the US Constitution.

The Court also noted that some authorities include as “citizens” those born in the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of the parents.  The Court refers to these people as a different “class”.  The Court in Minor refused to comment on the “citizenship” of such persons since Mrs. Minor was not in that class.  They didn’t need to reach the 14th Amendment to determine if Mrs. Minor was a US citizen since the Court previously established that she was a “natural-born citizen”.  Read the following again:

It is sufficient for everything we have now to consider that all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens.

This class is specifically defined as “natural-born citizens” by the Court.  The other class – those born in the US without citizen “parents” – may or may not be “citizens”.   But the Minor Court never suggested that this other class might also be natural-born citizens.  

It’s quite the opposite.   The Minor Court makes clear that this class arenot Article 2 Section 1 natural-born citizens.  If this other class were natural-born there would be no doubt as to their citizenship.

The Minor Court refrained from making a “citizenship” determination as to that class, but the Court did note that they were a different class.  Later, in 1898, the Court in Wong Kim Ark took the question on directly as to who is a citizen under the 14th Amendment, but that case did not directly construe Article 2 Section 1, whereas Minor did.

In order to avoid construing the 14th Amendment, the Court in Minor had to define those who fit into the class of “natural-born citizens”.  Mrs. Minor fit into that class.  Mr. Obama does not.

This is so very evident by the fact that the Minor Court specifically states that the “citizenship” of those who have non-citizen parents was historically subject to doubt.  Whether the 14th Amendment nullified those doubts was irrelevant to the Court in Minor, since Mrs. Minor was a natural-born citizen.

The 14th Amendment specifically confers only “citizenship”.  In Minor, the US Supreme Court directly recognized that natural-born citizens were a class of citizens who did not need the 14th Amendment to establish citizenship.  The class of natural-born citizens was perfectly defined in the Minor case.

Therefore, we have a direct determination by the US Supreme Court which defines a natural-born citizen as a person born in the US to parents who are citizens.  The citizenship of this class has never been in doubt.  The citizenship of the other class was in doubt.  But even if that doubt was erased – as to their citizenship – that they are not natural-born citizens was established as precedent by the Supreme Court in Minor.  In order for that precedent to be reversed, one of two things are necessary:

- a Constitutional amendment which specifically defines “natural-born Citizen” more inclusively than Minor did , or;

- a Supreme Court case which overrules the definition of natural-born citizen in the Minor case

We have neither.

Minor was decided seven years after the adoption of the 14th Amendment.  The Supreme Court in Minor did not consider anyone but those born of citizen parents on US soil to be natural-born citizens.  Later, in Wong Kim Ark, the Supreme Court stated that persons born on US soil to (some) alien parents were “citizens”, but that case specifically construed only the 14th Amendment.

Read again Justice Gray’s statement as to Minor, “In Minor v. Happersett, Chief Justice Waite, when construing, in behalf of the court, the very provision of the Fourteenth Amendment now in question, said…“  Nope.  Not true.  Gray was wrong in that Justice Waite did not construe the 14th Amendment in the quoted passage.  Chief Justice Waite construed Article 2 Section 1.  Whereas, Justice Gray construed the 14th Amendment.  Therefore, the two cases are not in conflict.

ANKENY V. GOVERNOR OF THE STATE OF INDIANA

The Minor case has been severely misconstrued in the Ankeny opinionissued by the Indiana Court of Appeals.  That court quoted Minor’s natural-born citizen language, then stated:

Thus, the Court left open the issue of whether a person who is born within the United States of alien parents is considered a natural born citizen.

False.  The Minor Court did not leave that question open.  Nowhere in the Minor opinion does it state that the class of persons who are natural-born citizens is an open question. The Ankeny Court has it backwards.

The Supreme Court in Minor stated that the “citizenship” of persons who were not natural born citizens was an open question.

That is the most important sentence I’ve ever written at this blog.  So please read it again.

The “citizenship” of those born to non-citizen parents was a question that the Minor Court avoided.   But they avoided that question by directly construing Article 2 Section 1.  In doing so, the Supreme Court in Minor defined the class of persons who were born in the US to citizen parents as “natural-born citizens”.

Since Minor, no Amendment has been adopted which changes that definition, and no other Supreme Court case has directly construed Article 2 Section 1.

The Supreme Court in Wong Kim Ark only construed the question of who was a “citizen” under the 14th Amendment, it did not construe Article 2 Section 1.  Therefore, Minor and Wong Kim Ark do not compete with each other at all.  Minor is the standing precedent for construction of the natural-born citizen clause in Article 2 Section 1, and Wong Kim Ark is the standing precedent as to “citizenship” under the 14th Amendment.

FarRightLooney

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1732 on: June 22, 2011, 09:14:30 AM »
WONG KIM ARK SPECIFICALLY DEFERRED TO PRIOR PRECEDENT REGARDING THE DEFINITION OF NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.

That the majority opinion in Wong Kim Ark limited its holding strictly to the issue of 14th Amendment citizenship – and did not make any new determination as to Article 2 Section 1 – is evident from the following statement by Gray regarding the dissent by Justice Curtis in the Supreme Court’s earlier ruling in Dred Scott v. Sandford:

“In Dred Scott v. Sandford, (1857) 19 How. 393, Mr. Justice Curtis said:

‘The first section of the second article of the Constitution uses the language, ‘a natural-born citizen.’ It thus assumes that citizenship may be acquired by birth. Undoubtedly, this language of the Constitution was used in reference to that principle of public law, well understood in this country at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, which referred citizenship to the place of birth.’

19 How. 60 U. S. 576. And, to this extent, no different opinion was expressed or intimated by any of the other judges.


At first glance, Gray’s reliance upon the dissent’s passage in the Dred Scott case would appear to contradict everything I have written above.  But it doesn’t.  It actually confirms my analysis.

Justice Gray chooses his words carefully and so we must examine them carefully.  Note where Gray says, “And, to this extent, no different opinion was expressed or intimated by any of the other judges.”  Well, if we are talking only about “citizenship”, then – to this extent – Justice Gray is correct.  But if we are talking about the definition of a “natural-born citizen”, then Gray is grossly mistaken.

The Dred Scott majority may not have expressed a different opinion as to “citizenship”, but the majority’s definition of a natural-born citizen is vastly different than that of Justice Curtis in his dissent.  The majority opinion in Dred Scott, citing Vattel directly, stated:

The citizens are the members of the civil society, bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority; they equally participate in its advantages. The natives or natural-born citizens are those born in the country of parents who are citizens. As society cannot perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their parents, and succeed to all their rights.”

Again:

“I say, to be of the country, it is necessary to be born of a person who is a citizen, for if he be born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country. The inhabitants, as distinguished from citizens, are foreigners who are permitted to settle and stay in the country.

Vattel, Book 1, cap. 19, p. 101.

From the views here expressed, and they seem to be unexceptionable…”

Unexceptionable is defined as; ” not open to any objection or criticism.”  The Supreme Court majority, in the Dred Scott case, clearly states that a natural-born citizen is a person born in the US to parents who are citizens.  Therefore, Justice Gray’s reliance upon the dissent in the Dred Scott case is strictly limited to its discussion of “citizenship” by Gray’s very choice of the words, “to this extent”.

Since Gray stated that none of the other justices in the Dred Scott case expressed a different opinion than Curtis did in his dissent, it is obvious that Gray’s statement only applies to general citizenship, and not to the definition of those who fall into the class of natural-born citizens.  The majority in Dred Scott did, in fact, express a completely different opinion than Curtis on the issue of who was an Article 2 Section 1 natural-born citizen.

Gray’s use of the words, “to this extent” – with regard to the dissent by Curtis – indicates that the extent to which the holding in Wong Kim Ark applies is to the definition of “citizenship”, not to the definition of who is a natural-born citizen eligible to be President.  The precedent stated by the Court in Minor still stands to this day.

THE US SUPREME COURT DEFINITION OF PRECEDENT

In 1996, the US Supreme Court’s majority opinion by Justice Breyer in Ogilvie Et Al., Minors v. United States, 519 U.S. 79 (1996), stated that when the Court discusses a certain “…reason as an ‘independent’ ground in support of our decision”, then that reasoning is not simply dictum:

Although we gave other reasons for our holding in Schleier as well, we explicitly labeled this reason an ‘independent’ ground in support of our decision, id., at 334. We cannot accept petitioners’ claim that it was simply a dictum.”

The Supreme Court in Minor specifically construed Article 2 Section 1 by defining – as natural-born citizens – those persons born in the US to parents who were citizens.

Again, the Supreme Court specifically avoided the 14th Amendment, by specifically construing Article 2 Section 1.

In order to determine whether Mrs. Minor had the right to vote, the Court first needed to determine if she was a US citizen.  They determined that she was a citizen because she was in the class of “natural-born citizens”.  And, in doing so, they made it clear that persons born of non-citizen parents were not natural-born citizens.

The Court left open the question of whether those born of non-citizen parents were “citizens”.  But the Court did not leave open their specific construction of Article 2 Section 1.  Their definition of a “natural-born citizen” was the core reason they found Mrs. Minor to be a citizen.   Therefore, the Minor Court established binding precedent as follows:

…[A]ll children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners...

Please also note that the Court here makes specific reference to both aliens and foreigners as distinguished from natural-born citizens.  Aliens are just that, aliens.  They are not citizens.  But we have always had many foreigners in this country who were citizens.  Those who came here from foreign lands were foreigners naturalized as citizens.  Some who were born in the US with dual citizenship – like Obama – were also citizens of the nation of their parents.  These are citizens, but also foreigners.  The Court in Minor made the careful distinction that a natural-born citizen is not an alien or a foreigner.

CITIZENS MAY BE BORN OR NATURALIZED

A common misconception of those who argue in favor of Obama’s eligibility is that if one is, at the time of their birth, a US citizen, then that person is also a natural-born citizen.  False.  This was unequivocally established by the majority holding in Minor, which states:

Additions might always be made to the citizenship of the United States in two ways: first, by birth, and second, by naturalization. This is apparent from the Constitution itself, for it providesthat ‘no person except a natural-born citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President,’and that Congress shall have power ‘to establish a uniform rule of naturalization.’ Thus new citizens may be born or they may be created by naturalization.”

Again, at first glance this appears to provide a neat little soundbite for Obama supporters.  But it doesn’t.  The quote above is taken out of context.  The Court’s opinion goes on to state:

Under the power to adopt a uniform system of naturalization Congress, as early as 1790, provided…that the children of citizens of the United States that might be born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, should be considered as natural-born citizens.  These provisions thus enacted have, in substance, been retained in all the naturalization laws adopted since.”

Here, the Minor Court cites the first naturalization act of 1790 to the effect that persons born of US citizen parents – outside the jurisdiction of the US– are “considered as natural-born citizens”.  So, here we can see that while the Minor Court only recognizes two paths to citizenship, birth and naturalization… it is clear that some persons who, at the time of their birth, are US citizens, require naturalization for such status.

So, it’s clear that while there are only two paths to US citizenship, birth and naturalization, those two paths sometimes merge.  But naturalized citizens are not eligible to be President.  (The Minor Court failed to mention that the words “natural-born” were repealed from the naturalization act of 1795.)

Additionally, the current US Department of State Foreign Affairs Manual, at “7 FAM 1131.6-2 Eligibility for Presidency“, comments on the 1790 act as follows:

This statute is no longer operative, however, and its formula is not included in modern nationality statutes. In any event, the fact that someone is a natural born citizen pursuant to a statute does not necessarily imply that he or she is such a citizen for Constitutional purposes.”

This is most likely because the statute did not actually deem such a personto be a natural-born citizen, the act simply stated that such a person was to be “considered as” a natural-born citizen.

The Minor Court also noted that the “substance” of the 1790 act, which granted US citizenship at birth via naturalization, had remained as law up until 1875 when the Minor case was decided.  So, clearly, while citizens may either be born or naturalized, some born citizens are simultaneously naturalized at birth.  Naturalized citizens are not natural-born citizens.  Therefore, they are not eligible to be President.

I am not arguing that Obama was naturalized.  But Minor does establish that not all “born citizens” are “natural-born”.  Minor also gives an unequivocal definition of who fits into the class of natural-born citizens.  Obama does not fit into that class.  Born in the US to a citizen mother and a British/Kenyan father, Obama was born with dual nationality and dual allegiance, part US citizen, part foreigner.  Minor makes a clear distinction between natural-born citizens and aliens or foreigners.

No Constitutional amendment supersedes Minor by defining natural-born citizen in a more inclusive way.  No US Supreme Court case has overruled it.  Justice Gray’s statement that the Court in Minor construed the 14th Amendment in the passage quoted is wrong.  The Court in Minor directly construed Article 2 Section 1 while directly avoiding construction of the 14th Amendment.

The Supreme Court in Wong Kim Ark directly construed the 14th Amendment and specifically avoided construction of Article 2 Section 1.  The two cases are not in contradiction.  They are consistent.

Wong Kim Ark is specifically limited to determining who is a citizen under the 14th Amendment.

Minor is specifically limited to determining who is a US citizen, natural-born.


According to the US Supreme Court precedent established by Minor, Obama is not eligible to the office of President of the United States.

Leo C. Donofrio, Esq.

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1733 on: June 22, 2011, 12:22:49 PM »
does WND talk about 911, or they only address Dem CTs?

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1734 on: June 22, 2011, 12:23:34 PM »
does WND talk about 911, or they only address Dem CTs?

240 Derail #1

I'm keeping count now.       ;D

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1735 on: June 22, 2011, 12:32:03 PM »
240 Derail #1

I'm keeping count now.       ;D

takes one to know one ;)

I was a birther before you were, champ!

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1736 on: June 23, 2011, 06:53:05 PM »
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Adobe engineer doubts Obama birth certificate
WND ^ | June 23, 2011 | Jerome R. Corsi
Posted on June 23, 2011 9:09:10 PM EDT by RobinMasters

Gary Poyssick, an early employee of software giant Adobe System Inc., continues to maintain there is something "fishy" about the Obama long-form birth certificate released by the White House.

"What the White House released is not a simple scan," Poyssick told WND. "Something digital came between the paper and the glass."

Poyssick was at the San Jose-based tech company when it counted no more than 14 employees, and he continues to advise and write on Adobe software products

Poyssick, who today devotes his energies to running The Online Fisherman in Tampa, Fla., has written more than 50 titles about Adobe software, the printing industry, coding and programming, website development and workflow management.

His initial reaction was to declare the birth certificate an outright forgery.

"I could have done a much better replica myself, if the president had asked," Poyssick told The Political Sandbox blog when the birth certificate first appeared and he opened the document in Adobe Illustrator. "The guy that did this is a bimbo in that he forgot to 'flatten' his works to soften the background edges so the fake letters blended, softly into the green paper.

Observing that the birth certificate document had multiple layers when opened in Adobe Illustrator, Poyssick was amazed the White House had released an electronic PDF file that had not been "flattened" so as to remove all evidence that it had been modified.

(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...

FarRightLooney

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1737 on: June 29, 2011, 04:29:22 PM »
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/37835

Found: Congressman Who Has Read More than Maskell’s Memo!

By Dean C. Haskins  Thursday, June 23, 2011

The ongoing saga of the communications with my Virginia elected officials continues (see: here , here , and here ).  Today, I received a somewhat surprising email response from U.S. Congressman Bob Goodlatte (R-VA) in which he appears to know more about the issues than has been indicated by the letters written by his cohorts.

Dear Mr. Haskins:
Thank you for contacting me regarding the recent release of President Barack Obama’s birth certificate. It is good to hear from you.

As you know, the Constitution establishes the qualifications of President of the United States.  Only a natural born citizen, at least 35 years of age, and having resided in the United States for at least 14 years is eligible for the Office of President.

A President-elect’s eligibility has traditionally been verified by public record and vetting done by the parties.  It is crucial that any President-elect meet the eligibility criteria as determined by the U.S. Constitution and provide the necessary assurances of eligibility.

Currently, there is no office or agency that certifies a President-elect’s eligibility for the office.  However, I believe that there should be a more formal process of review and validation as a matter of routine certification of candidates.  The Office of the Presidency is undermined if Americans don’t have confidence that the candidates for the highest office in the land are qualified for the position as required by the Constitution.

As you know, President Obama recently released to the public the long-form version of his birth certificate.  Since then, concerns have been raised about the validity of the birth certificate as well as the claim that the President has been using a Social Security Number previously issued to another person.  These concerns have been raised with the relevant oversight committees in the Congress and if there is enough evidence and more experts reach the same conclusions then these claims will lead to an investigation.

During the last Congress I co-sponsored legislation which would require the principal campaign committee of any candidate for election to the Office of President to include with the committee’s statement of organization a copy of the candidate’s birth certificate and any other documentation necessary to establish that the candidate meets the qualifications for eligibility to the Office of President under the Constitution.  This legislation would ensure that proof of eligibility is provided by candidates before each Presidential election.

While the issue of eligibility has come up in past elections, including whether Chester Arthur (our 20th President succeeding to the office upon the death of James Garfield) was born in the U. S. or Canada, never has the issue arisen as to the eligibility of both major party candidates as it did in 2008 with regard to both John McCain and Barack Obama. The public discussion, controversy, uncertainty and the undermining of the Presidency can all be avoided by a routine requirement that future candidates establish their eligibility under the Constitution.

The United States is a nation based on the rule of law.  The Constitution clearly sets forth the qualifications for the Office of President, Members of the House and Senate, and members of the federal Judiciary.  Any circumvention of these Constitutional requirements would be a slap in the face to the rule of law and our very Democracy.  I believe that our Constitution is a solemn contract between the American people and their government.  I will continue to work to ensure its terms are adhered to by all elected and appointed government officials.

Again, thanks for the benefit of your comments.  Please feel free to contact me whenever I may be of assistance.

Sincerely,

Bob Goodlatte
Member of Congress

To which I replied:

Dear Congressman Goodlatte:

Thank you for your response to my letters.  Before I respond to that, please allow me to commend you for gingerly straying outside the parameters of the Jack Maskell (CRS) memo, unlike virtually every other member of Congress has done in their communications to their constituents.

That being said, I do have some pointed questions about your email to me:

While I concur with your assessment about the past, that “A President-elect’s eligibility has traditionally been verified by public record and vetting done by the parties,” and I also agree with your appraisal of the future, that “It is crucial that any President-elect meet the eligibility criteria as determined by the U.S. Constitution and provide the necessary assurances of eligibility,” and I am pleased at the steps you have taken to try to resolve the matter in the future, what I find to be glaringly absent from your evaluation is your personal conviction and disposition toward a forthright resolution regarding the present.

More specifically, at what point did you address your House cohorts with a “Houston-we-have-a-problem” proclamation?  At what point did you stand on the House floor and announce, “The growing evidence is showing that we have erred, and have not properly exercised our constitutional duties; therefore it is incumbent upon us to do so now?”

You see, as meritorious as your rudimentary understanding of the issues is, without your public outcry that you, as a sitting member of Congress, demand an independent and impartial investigation into the matter, your words appear to be barely more than rhetoric. As to your indication that “these concerns have been raised with the relevant oversight committees in the Congress and if there is enough evidence and more experts reach the same conclusions then these claims will lead to an investigation,” please excuse my lack of confidence in those committees producing anything more than the same coverup we have witnessed for nearly three years now.

Moreover, I am not sure you are aware, but a growing number of notable forensic document examiners are weighing in on their conclusions that the “long form birth certificate” is a forgery.  Most recently, “Joseph M. Newcomer, who exposed the ‘Killian documents’ as fraudulent in 2004,” has stated, “the Obama birth certificate released by the White House April 27 is a ‘highly suspicious’ document that deserves professional forensic examination.  ‘There is something deeply wrong here. There are artifacts in the birth certificate document that are strongly suggestive of a forgery. The document screams out that something is wrong.’” (wnd.com)

Yeah, we have all the faith in the world that the “relevant oversight committees” are all over this.  NOT!

While I am impressed at your inclusion of the Chester Arthur debacle, it doesn’t seem you’ve quite obtained the entire story.  You are correct that there was murmuring that occurred surrounding his birthplace (US or Canada); however, his avoidance of the truth had nothing to do with his birthplace, but with his father’s Canadian citizenship at the time of Chester’s birth.  Arthur’s father did not become a naturalized citizen until Chester was nearly 14 years old, but Chester was indeed born in the United States.  Further proof that Arthur understood the meaning of “natural born Citizen” and was aware that his father’s foreign citizenship precluded his attaining that status at birth, is the fact that Arthur had all of his pertinent documentation burned.  Yes, both Chester Arthur and Barack Obama lied to the American people.  The only difference is that Arthur didn’t have a copy of Photoshop.

As you stated, “The United States is a nation based on the rule of law;” and I concur with you.  But, as I have pointed out, your response to me seems to imply that you perceive the rule of law to have applied to our past, and you desire the rule of law to govern our future, but you appear quite ambivalent toward it’s being enforced in the present.

In my last letter to you, I cited Title 18 U.S.C. Chapter 1, § 4 a law that applies equally to all American citizens (which includes the members of Congress).  Because your response didn’t seem to indicate any specific action on your part against the crimes that have been committed, I must again ask,

“Why are you not guilty of misprision of felony?”

I look forward to your response.

For our Constitution,
Dean C. Haskins

I will continue to keep you apprised of any and all developments as I strive to persuade the great Commonwealth of Virginia to lead the way in rectifying the constitutional crisis that has been created by the usurpation of our presidency.

FarRightLooney

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1738 on: June 29, 2011, 04:30:12 PM »

Soul Crusher

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1739 on: June 30, 2011, 08:39:15 PM »
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Bogus Obama document 'bigger than Watergate'
WND ^ | June 29, 2011 | Bob Unruh
Posted on June 30, 2011 11:50:18 PM EDT by RobinMasters

A retired U.S. military commander who brought a court challenge to Barack Obama's tenure in the Oval Office says the mounting evidence indicating the "Certificate of Live Birth" he released in April is fake should shock the American public.

"If everyone was intellectually honest, they would admit those images put on the Internet are forgeries," said CDR Charles Kerchner, whose lawsuit that alleged Congress failed in its constitutional duty to make sure the man elected president was eligible for the office, was turned down by the U.S. Supreme Court.

He cited the work released this week by longtime Adobe software book author and computer expert Mara Zebest.

Her detailed report explains how the document released in April by Obama as a copy of his original birth certificate isn't even a good forgery.

"This is a 100 times worse situation in that it is not just a crime of some plumbers breaking into an opponent's office, this is a crime against the Constitution and all the people of the Untied States. Obama is not who he says he is. These are forged documents on government property. Before it was a campaign website, now these are government websites," Kerchner told WND today.

Joseph Farah, publisher of WND books, who held a news conference featuring Zebest's research this week at the National Press Club with Jerome Corsi, author of "Where's the Birth Certificate? The Case That Barack Obama Is Not Eligible To Be President," agreed.

"This is bigger than Watergate," he said after the news conference where it was announced that a lawsuit had been filed against Esquire magazine over its faked "report" that falsely claimed the Corsi book was withdrawn.

(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...

garebear

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1740 on: June 30, 2011, 09:25:57 PM »
John Birch gave me a BJ, kid.
G

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1741 on: July 01, 2011, 11:29:52 AM »
 ::)

Birthers are turning into a subculture now.

Nothing but rhetoric, empty conjecture etc.. 

FarRightLooney

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1742 on: July 01, 2011, 02:02:04 PM »
Adobe Expert Mara Zebest & Jerome Corsi: Derek Forged Obama's Birth
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
Uploaded by BirtherReportDotCom on Jun 30, 2011
LINKS: The Peter Boyles Show: Adobe Expert Mara Zebest & Jerome Corsi; Obama's Forged Birth Certificate - Peter Boyles Show: Adobe Expert Mara Zebest and Dr. Jerome Corsi; Obama's Forged Birth Certificate Explained - Revised: Take note of the caller named "Larry" who called in about 21 minutes in. He claims the header information on Obama's BC PDF shows it was created by "Derek"!!!??? - 6/30/2011 -http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2011/06/adobe-expert-mara-zebest-... -

http://www.ObamaReleaseYourRecords.com -

What others at theobamafile.com are finding following up on the above interview

What Seriously draws our attention to in this video, is that the caller, Larry, instructs us how to identify the creator of the White House copy of Obama's long-form birth certificate.
 
I followed the directions, and it's not Daryll, as caller Larry remembered, it's Derek
 

 
Now, all we have to do is find out who Derek is.
 
Could it be this guy?
 
http://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/eop/oua/staff

Or maybe Laura Dunn.
 
In addition to being a "professional" Progressive, she holds a Bachelor of Fine Arts from the School of the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston, concentrating in painting, and has experience as a professional arts instructor.
 
The perfect background for a forger.
 
http://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/eop/oua/staff/dunn

FarRightLooney

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1743 on: July 01, 2011, 02:10:17 PM »
More from theobamafile today

The Back Door To The Obama Eligibility Lock Down

The Birthers blog says the Courts, Congress and for the most part the Mainstream Media have effectively closed the door to any serious legal challenges to Obama's lack of constitutional eligibility.  That is about to change.

Unknowingly Esquire Magazine has opened the door to have the evidence of fraud presented in a federal court when they wrote in their satire disclaimer about their story about Joe Farah pulling Jerry Corsi's book off the shelves, "(a)re its author and publisher chastened?  Well no.  They double down, and accuse the President of the United States of perpetrating a fraud on the world by having released a forged birth certificate.  Not because this claim is in any way based on reality, but to hold their terribly gullible audience captive to their lies, and to sell books.  This is despicable, and deserves only ridicule."

Joe Farah, Jerry Corsi and WND.com, now have the unique opportunity to present to the world the evidence that the document is in fact a fraud.  And there is nothing Esquire or Obama can do to stop it.  Since Obama will not be mentioned as a defendant, he has no cause to have his wonderful government lawyers intervene, in fact his personal lawyers can not do anything.  The fact is Obama simply will be told what we have been told, he has no standing.  Divine justice is not only just, it is sweet.

What can Esquire do?  The only option they have is to settle out of court, but that requires all parties to agree and for some reason I do not think Joe is going to settle out of court for any price.  Perhaps all those nasty things the left been saying about him are true, you know that he is (OMG) a Christian!  And you all know the motto of those pesky Christians, "and the truth will set you free."  I think Joe will go for the truth instead of the money.

Joe will establish that he has reasonable doubt of the April 27, 2011 release of the so-called long form birth certificate and have those experts that he has published testify to this fact.  Come to think of it, thanks to Esquire this action will give WND the right to get a federal court order for the original birth certificate on file with the Hawaii Department of Health to have it examined to substantiate their claim that the document produced on April 27th is in fact a forgery and that Esquire is intentionally lying about it to damage the reputations of Joe Farah, Jerry Corsi and WND.

Saul Alinsky said ridicule is the best weapon, and this is what Esquire Magazine tried to do to Farah, Corsi and WND, but it only works on those with no or little courage.

Esquire made a blunder with the initial article, and perhaps all Joe Farah had to sue them over is trying to restrict the sale of Jerry Corsi's book.  Okay at best that might cost Esquire a couple of million, but then they screwed the proverbial pooch and said Joe was intentionally lying about the birth certificate being a fraud to scam the WND audience.  This just cost the media their blackout on the facts, this is priceless.

Esquire, on behalf of all the Birthers nationwide all I can say to you is, THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!

Check out the following links for more

WND sues Esquire for faked report
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=314605












FarRightLooney

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1744 on: July 01, 2011, 02:17:15 PM »
It's a full day - of course - into a long holiday weekend. Pravda!

Go to the link to read so you can access all the links in the article

http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/07/01/justia-com-caught-red-handed-hiding-references-to-minor-v-happersett-in-published-us-supreme-court-opinions/

JUSTIA.COM CAUGHT RED HANDED HIDING REFERENCES TO MINOR v. HAPPERSETT IN PUBLISHED US SUPREME COURT OPINIONS.
The US Supreme Court Center at Justia.com is the leading resource on the internet which publishes United States Supreme Court decisions.  They have been caught red handed in an Orwellian attempt to revise US Supreme Court cases which mention Minor v. Happersett as precedent on the issue of citizenship, as opposed to the other issue decided in Minor, voting rights.

I have documented two incredible examples where Justia.com has been caught in the act of taking a hatchet job to US Supreme Court decisions by removing, not just the case name, “Minor v. Happersett”, but whole passages related to Chief Justice Waite’s statements on the citizenship issue which were cited favorably in BOYD V. NEBRASKA EX REL. THAYER,143 U. S. 135 (1892), and POPE V. WILLIAMS, 193 U. S. 621 (1904).

I have published my complete investigation into this fraud perpetrated by Justia.com – including snapshots and evidence collected from the Way Back Machine at the Internet Archive – in the comments section of my previous report, THE EXPRESS LANE TO NATURAL BORN CLARITY.  My investigation was triggered by a reader’s comment regarding Boyd.  The comment was on a separate issue.  But I then noticed that the Boyd case, as currently published by Justia.com, made reference to Minor v. Happersett without properly naming the case.

Last evening, I had come across a similar situation in the Pope case.  I was curious, but it wasn’t until I saw the same pattern in the Boyd case that it became clear Justia.com was altering these cases to remove references to Minor v. Happersett when Minor was recognized on the issue of citizenship.  But where Minor is cited on the issue of voting rights, no hatchet was taken to the references in later US Supreme Court cases.

For posterity, due to the incredibly important nature of this information, I have decided to keep the investigative report exactly where I first published it, in the comments section of my previous report.

This is beyond shocking.  Somebody, back in 2008, just prior to the election, ordered these revisions and saw to their execution.  This is direct tampering with United States law. And it is evidence that Minor v. Happersett was known to be a huge stumbling block to POTUS eligibility.

It confirms that Minor v. Happersett was seen as a dangerous US Supreme Court precedent which construed the natural-born citizen clause of Article 2 Section 1 to make only those persons born in the US to citizen parents (plural)… eligible to be President.

According to binding US Supreme Court precedent, Obama is not eligible to be President.  And we are obviously very late coming to this legal truth.  Somebody at Justia.com tried to control and alter our awareness by hiding important Supreme Court references to Minor dating back to 2008.  This is smoking gun proof of tampering.  Please read my full report here.

There needs to be an investigation.

 
Leo Donofrio, Esq.

OzmO

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1745 on: July 01, 2011, 02:20:22 PM »
More junk....

Is there nothing but arguments?.

No solid evidence?

Nothing?

FarRightLooney

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1746 on: July 02, 2011, 12:42:34 PM »
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=317705

What did Congress know about 'natural-born citizen'?
8 tries at eliminating requirement suggests organized strategy in place

July 01, 2011

By Bob Unruh

There were eight attempts by members of Congress during the years Barack Obama was developing a power base and running for president to remove the Constitution's requirement that a president be a "natural-born citizen," suggesting an organized strategy, according to a new video.

The video documentary was produced by Carl Gallups, the senior pastor at Hickory Hammock Baptist Church for more than 24 years with a long history of community and law enforcement involvement.

Gallups was a Florida law enforcement officer for 10 years, a youth minister before that and is a national and international youth evangelist with outreaches across the United States and in Canada since 1989. He's also on the board of regents at the University of Mobile and hosts several weekly radio programs in the northwest Florida region.

Get the New York Times best-seller "Where's the Birth Certificate? The Case that Barack Obama Is Not Eligible to be President," autographed by Jerome Corsi, Ph.D.

Documentation for his video comes from a variety of congressional records showing that beginning June 11, 2003, and continuing through the most recent effort, Feb. 28, 2008, there were eight proposals targeting that constitutional requirement.

The video:

[ Invalid YouTube link ]


He outlines the specifics:

June 11, 2003, Rep. Vic Snyder, D-Ark., brought HJR 59. It was intended to "permit persons who are not natural born citizens of the United States, but who have been citizens of the United States for at least 35 years, to be eligible to hold the offices of president and vice president."

Sept. 3, 2003, Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., brought HJR67, which would have done the same as Snyder's, only the requirement to be a citizen was lowered to 20 years.

Feb. 25, 2004, Sen. Don Nickles, R-Okla., brought S.B. 2128 to "try to counter the growing Democrat onslaught aimed at removing the natural born citizen requirement." But it defined NBC as someone who was born in and is subject to the United States," which was not the understanding of the framers of the Constitution.

Sept. 15, 2004, Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-Calif., brought HJR 104, "to make eligible for the office of president a person who is not a natural born citizen of the United States but has been a United States citizen for at least 20 years."

Jan. 4, 2005, Conyers, D-Mich., HJR2, the same as Rohrabacher's.

Feb. 1, 2005, HJR15, Rohrabacher, to require only 20 years citizenship to be eligible for the office of president.

April 14, 2005, Snyder, HJR42, requiring 35 years' citizenship.

Feb. 28, 2008, Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Mo., tried to attach to SB 2678, Children of Military Families Natural Born Citizen Act, an amendment clarifying what "natural-born citizen" includes. Obama and then-Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., were sponsors.
(Story continues below)


Gallups reports that finally, on April 10, 2008, "unable to alter or remove" the requirement, the Senate changed the focus of the issue, with Senate Resolution 511, which addressed Sen. John McCain's qualifications as a "natural-born citizen."

Obama's qualifications never were reviewed.

After his election, Gallups points out, Obama held a secret meeting with eight of the nine justices of the U.S. Supreme Court – from which no public information was released. The meeting was held even though there were legal challenges in which Obama was a defendant pending before the Supreme Court at the time. The attorneys for the plaintiffs never were told of the meeting or invited to participate in what critics have described as extrajudicial contact between the court and a defendant.

WND previously reported on another link between Obama and a campaign to change the constitutional provision. It came from an associate lawyer in a Chicago-based firm whose partner served on a finance committee for then-Sen. Barack Obama. She advocated for the elimination of the U.S. Constitution's requirement that a president be a "natural-born" citizen, calling the requirement "stupid" and asserting it discriminates, is outdated and undemocratic.


Barack Obama and Kenyan Prime Minister Raila Odinga

The paper was written in 2006 by Sarah Herlihy, just two years after Obama had won a landslide election in Illinois to the U.S. Senate. Herlihy was listed as an associate at the Chicago firm of Kirkland & Ellis. A partner in the same firm, Bruce I. Ettelson, cited his membership on the finance committees for both  Obama and Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Ill., on the corporate website.

The article by Herlihy was available online under law review articles from Kent University when it originally was the subject of reports but later was removed.

Herlihy's published paper reveals that the requirement likely was considered in a negative light by organizations linked to Obama in the months before he announced in 2007 his candidacy for the presidency.

The natural born citizen requirement in Article II of the United States Constitution has been called the "stupidest provision" in the Constitution, "undecidedly un-American," "blatantly discriminatory" and the "Constitution's worst provision," Herlihy begins in her introduction to the paper titled "Amending the Natural Born Citizen Requirement: Globalization as the Impetus and the Obstacle."

She concludes that the "emotional" reasons to oppose changing the Constitution will prevail over the "rational" reasons demanding a change.

The current American perceptions about the effects of globalization and the misunderstanding about what globalization actually is will result in Americans deciding that naturalized citizens should not be president because this would, in effect, be promoting globalization, Herlihy wrote.

"Although this argument is admittedly circular, because globalization is the thing that makes the need to abolish the requirement more and more persuasive, Americans' subsequent perceptions about globalization are the very things that will prevent Americans from embracing the idea of eliminating the natural born requirement.

"Logical Americans are looking for a reason to ignore the rational reasons promoted by globalization so that they may vote based on their own emotions and instincts," she wrote.

In the body of her argument, Herlihy said the constitutional provision simply is outdated.

"Considering that the Founding Fathers presumably included the natural born citizen clause in the Constitution partly out of fear of foreign subversion, the current stability of the American government and the intense media scrutiny of presidential candidates virtually eliminates the possibility of a 'foreigner' coming to America, becoming a naturalized citizen, generating enough public support to become president, and somehow using the presidency to directly benefit his homeland," she wrote.

"The natural born citizen clause of the United States Constitution should be repealed for numerous reasons. Limiting presidential eligibility to natural born citizens discriminates against naturalized citizens, is outdated and undemocratic, and incorrectly assumes that birthplace is a proxy for loyalty," she wrote.

Many of the reasons for keeping the limit, she wrote, "are based primarily on emotion."

FarRightLooney

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1747 on: July 06, 2011, 11:30:27 AM »
images of subpoena at link
http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/07/05/exclusive-court-subpoena-for-obamas-original-birth-certificate-served-to-hawaii-health-department/
Court Subpoena for Obama’s Original Birth Certificate Served to Hawaii Health Department

U.S. DISTRICT COURT IN HONOLULU SUBPOENAS LORETTA J. FUDDY, HAWAII HEALTH DEPARTMENT DIRECTOR
by Sharon Rondeau

The United States District Court for the District of Hawaii issued and served a subpoena on July 5, 2011 to the director of the Hawaii Health Department for Obama's original birth certificate

(Jul. 5, 2011) — A process server has delivered a Hawaii court-issued subpoena to Loretta J. Fuddy, Director of the Hawaii Department of Health, commanding her “to produce at the time, date, and place set forth below the following documents, electronically stored information, or objects, and permit their inspection, copying testing, or sampling of the material:”

original 1961 typewritten birth certificate #10641 for Barack Obama, III [sic] issued 08.08.1961, signed by Dr. David Sinclair, Stanley Ann Dunham Obama and registrar Lee, stored in the Health Department of the State of HI from 08081961 until now.

The subpoena allows Fuddy until August 8, 2011 at 10:00 a.m. to produce the document.
The designated place of production is noted as:
Health Department
State of HI
1250 Punchbowl str. room 325
Honolulu, HI  96813

Above the date, the following text appears:
The provisions of Fed. R. Civ. P. 45(c), relating to your protection as a person subject to a subpoena, and Rule 45 (d) and (e), relating to your duty to respond to this subpoena and the potential consequences of not doing so, are attached.

The subpoena is signed by a deputy clerk as evidenced by an underline appearing beneath that term under the signature line.  It is dated “0705.2011″ just above the signature.

A second page titled “Proof of Service” reads:

This subpoena for (name of individual and title, if any) Loretta Fuddy
was received by me on (date) 0705.2011

A box is checked and the following preprinted text states:

I served the subpoena by delivering a copy to the named person as follows:

and the lines are completed with the following:

by certified mail return receipt sent to Attorney General of HI, 485 South King str, room 200, Honolulu, HI 96813 on (date) 07.05.2011; or

The checkbox and line below are blank.

Zeroes appearing on lines with dollar signs indicate that there are no fees charged for the service.

A final statement reads:
I declare under penalty of perjury that this information is true.
Date:  07.05.2011

The server’s signature appears in cursive writing and is printed on the line below.  It is stamped with the following below the process server’s signature and printed name:

Law Offices of Orly Taitz, Esq.
29639 Santa Margarita Pkwy. Ste 100
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688
 

Proof of Service of the Subpoena from the U.S. District Court in Hawaii to the Health Department Director and the Hawaii Attorney General

Envelope in which Dr. Orly Taitz received a copy of the subpoena and its second page, which is the Proof of Service document
Loretta Fuddy and Dr. Alvin Onaka, Registrar of the Hawaii Department of Health, had previously refused Taitz’s request to release Obama’s original birth certificate, citing  concerns for “privacy.”  Taitz responded to Onaka’s refusal with a letter copied to several congressmen, putative Attorney General Eric Holder, FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III, and the statement:
…we have an individual with a forged birth certificate and an invalid Social Security number usurping the position of the US president and Commander in Chief of the whole US military. Your and Ms. Fuddy’s refusal to provide access to the original birth certificate can be viewed as aiding and abetting to uttering of a forged document and elections fraud. Based on all of the above, I am respectfully requesting an administrative review of my appeal and granting access to the original document in question. If the appeal is not granted within 30 days, I will be taking further action.
On April 27, 2011, the White House released what it claimed was a certified copy of Obama’s long-form birth certificate on television and the internet.  However, numerous document examiners, typesetting experts, and graphics consultants have come forward to state in formal presentations and reports that the image presented to the public is a poor forgery.

Soul Crusher

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1748 on: July 06, 2011, 11:33:48 AM »
I was waiting for you to post this.    ;D

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Re: All things "Birther" Thread
« Reply #1749 on: July 06, 2011, 12:24:36 PM »
Too bad I don't expect anything to come of it   >:(

I'm going to go watch eagles
http://www.hornbyeagles.com/chatpage_wildearth.htm

and listen to Nancy Sinatra


And pretend all is right in the world