Author Topic: Beck vs Evangelical leader  (Read 6546 times)

big L dawg

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Beck vs Evangelical leader
« on: March 12, 2010, 12:41:21 PM »
(CNN) -- An evangelical leader is calling for a boycott of Glenn Beck's television show and challenging the Fox News personality to a public debate after Beck vilified churches that preach economic and social justice.

The Rev. Jim Wallis, president of Sojourners, a network of progressive Christians, says Beck perverted Jesus' message when he urged Christians last week to leave churches that preach social and economic justice.

Beck told his audience that they should leave churches that preach "economic and social justice." Wallis says Beck compared those churches to Communists and Nazis.

Wallis says at least 20,000 people have already responded to his call to boycott Beck. He says Beck is confusing his personal philosophy with the Bible.

"He wants us to leave our churches, but we should leave him," Wallis says of Beck. "When your political philosophy is to consistently favor the rich over the poor, you don't want to hear about economic justice."

Wallis says he wants to go on Beck's show to challenge the contention that churches shouldn't preach economic and social justice.

Social and economic justice is at the heart of Jesus' message, Wallis says.

"He's afraid of being challenged on his silly caricatures," Wallis says. "Glenn Beck talks a lot when he doesn't have someone to dialogue with. Is he willing to talk with someone who he doesn't agree with?"

Beck did not answer numerous requests for an interview.
When your political philosophy is to consistently favor the rich over the poor, you don't want to hear about economic justice
--The Rev. Jim Wallis

But a prominent evangelical leader says he, too, is suspicious of churches that preach economic and social justice.

Jerry Falwell Jr., president of Liberty University, a Christian college in Virginia, says Jesus wasn't interested in politics. He says that those pastors who preach economic and social justice "are trying to twist the gospel to say the gospel supported socialism."

"Jesus taught that we should give to the poor and support widows, but he never said that we should elect a government that would take money from our neighbor's hand and give it to the poor," Falwell says.

Falwell says that Jesus believed that individuals, not governments, should help the poor.

"If we all did as Jesus did when he helped the poor, we wouldn't need the government," says Falwell, the son of the late evangelical leader, the Rev. Jerry Falwell.

What is economic and social justice?

The term "economic and social justice" is not easy to define. It has different meanings for different people.
Jesus taught that we should give to the poor and support widows, but he never said that we should elect a government that would take money of our neighbor's hand and give it to the poor
--The Rev. Jerry Falwell Jr.


For some Christians, practicing economic and social justice means that churches should practice charity: setting up soup kitchens, assisting victims of natural disasters, and helping people find jobs.

For other Christians, practicing economic and social justice also means trying to change the conditions that cause people to be poor or unemployed. The Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. subscribed to this definition of biblical justice.

Marty Duren, a Southern Baptist Convention pastor, says some conservative Christians have traditionally thought churches shouldn't get involved in economic or social justice.

"For a long time, Southern Baptists and evangelicals were so focused on the return of Christ that what was happening in the real world was almost incidental," says Duren, who blogs at martyduren.com.

But within the last two decades, Duren says, more evangelical Christians have come to believe that the Bible calls for economic and social justice.

William Wilberforce, for example, is a 19th century British politician who helped abolish the slave trade in his country. He is now regarded as a hero for some evangelicals because he applied his faith to the economic and social justice issues of his day, Duren says.

Did Jesus preach about social and economic justice?

The Bible cares about social and economic justice, Duren says.

"The Old Testament is replete with examples of God threatening to judge a nation because of a lack of justice or carrying out that threat of judgment against a nation,'' Duren says.

He believes Beck was wrong to tell Christians that they shouldn't belong to churches that seek justice.

"If I had any authority at Fox News right now, Glenn Beck would be seeking economic justice," Duren says.
The Rev. Jim Wallis is the president of Sojourners, a network of Christians.

That concern for justice is what helped convert him, says Wallis, president of Sojourners. Wallis, who counts King as one of his faith role models, says the Bible isn't just concerned with feeding the poor -- it's concerned about the conditions that create the poor.

Wallis also evoked the Christians who fought against slavery as well as civil rights activists.

"The Bible just didn't say take care of the victim -- it talks about justice," says Wallis, who is the author of "Rediscovering Values: On Wall Street, Main Street and Your Street."

Meanwhile, Wallis says he's waiting for that public debate with Beck.

"I'll have it," Wallis says, "anywhere he wants."
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big L dawg

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Re: Beck vs Evangelical leader
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2010, 12:42:01 PM »
.
DAWG

chadstallion

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Re: Beck vs Evangelical leader
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2010, 12:44:12 PM »
beck is better than anything on comedy central these days.
w

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Re: Beck vs Evangelical leader
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2010, 12:53:25 PM »
The last boycott attempt didn't work out so well (he's still on the air).  I doubt this one works either. 

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Re: Beck vs Evangelical leader
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2010, 01:07:33 PM »
Beck is 100000000000000000000000 000000000000000% correct and this is the main reason I left the Catholic Church. 

My parents were upset, but I told them under no circumstances will I support economic marxism by pedophiles and perverts. 

BM OUT

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Re: Beck vs Evangelical leader
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2010, 02:14:06 PM »
Social justice is another word for redistribution.There is ZERO in the Bible that gives the government the right to steal the working mans money and give it to lazy idiots who wont work."THE MAN WHO DOES NOT WORK ,SHALL NOT EAT"!!

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Re: Beck vs Evangelical leader
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2010, 08:22:43 PM »
10000% correct billy   hit the nail on the head

Straw Man

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Re: Beck vs Evangelical leader
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2010, 09:05:56 PM »
10000% correct billy   hit the nail on the head

Jesus was a Commie?

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Re: Beck vs Evangelical leader
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2010, 09:10:16 PM »
No worky no Eaty.

Wise man say.

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Re: Beck vs Evangelical leader
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2010, 09:11:52 PM »
You got that right.  I think the Bible endorses hard work and charity, but not welfare. 

Straw Man

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Re: Beck vs Evangelical leader
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2010, 09:12:56 PM »
No worky no Eaty.

Wise man say.

When Jesus is your friend you have unlimited access to bread, fish and wine

no work necessary

it's in teh bible

OzmO

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Re: Beck vs Evangelical leader
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2010, 09:14:33 PM »
When Jesus is your friend you have unlimited access to bread, fish and wine

no work necessary

it's in teh bible

Show me.  I don't think they paint Jesus as a all day free buffet.  I'd ask loco or McWay about that.   

Straw Man

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Re: Beck vs Evangelical leader
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2010, 09:17:33 PM »
Show me.  I don't think they paint Jesus as a all day free buffet.  I'd ask loco or McWay about that.   

imagine if Jesus lived now (or comes back sometime soon) and you're hanging out at your house and you want t pizza

you wouldn't even have time to make the call before it appeared



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Re: Beck vs Evangelical leader
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2010, 09:18:45 PM »
imagine if Jesus lived now (or comes back sometime soon) and you're hanging out at your house and you want t pizza

you wouldn't even have time to make the call before it appeared




I don't think so.  Pizza is of the fallen angel.  Jesus would tell me to repent and get my ass to work.

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Re: Beck vs Evangelical leader
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2010, 09:27:44 PM »
I don't think so.  Pizza is of the fallen angel.  Jesus would tell me to repent and get my ass to work.

repent for what?  being hungry

forget the pizza.  Jesus was a jew so he probably wouldn't make it with pepperoni anyway

imagine you're hanging out with Jesus playing some XBox and you run out of beer

before you can even say it ........POOF!!!!

Thanks Jesus

OzmO

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Re: Beck vs Evangelical leader
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2010, 09:36:11 PM »
repent for what?  being hungry

forget the pizza.  Jesus was a jew so he probably wouldn't make it with pepperoni anyway

imagine you're hanging out with Jesus playing some XBox and you run out of beer

before you can even say it ........POOF!!!!

Thanks Jesus

lol  yeah,  but wine would come out of the faucet first.   ;D

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Re: Beck vs Evangelical leader
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2010, 09:44:12 PM »
lol  yeah,  but wine would come out of the faucet first.   ;D

hopefully when he comes back he's into sushi

I might consider converting

wait, I'm already Catholic and that's teh only true church anyway

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Re: Beck vs Evangelical leader
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2010, 07:08:51 AM »
When Jesus is your friend you have unlimited access to bread, fish and wine

no work necessary

it's in teh bible

And guess what Straw - if no one is working and producing and sitting on their lazy asses, pretty soon the food and wine runs out and everyone starves. 

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Re: Beck vs Evangelical leader
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2010, 09:08:56 AM »
Social justice is another word for redistribution.There is ZERO in the Bible that gives the government the right to steal the working mans money and give it to lazy idiots who wont work."THE MAN WHO DOES NOT WORK ,SHALL NOT EAT"!!

Both Old and New Testaments gave instructions on how Israel was to treat those less fortunate, none of which REMOTELY resemble the garbage these "social justice" numbskulls keep preaching.

The verse you just paraphrase comes from 2 Thessalonians 3:10.

But, other ways of caring for the poor includes widows serving in the Temple, such as Anna (the prophetess who saw Jesus, when He was around 2 months old in Luke 2).

Other means included people giving themselves into servitude (about which some Bible skeptics whine, regarding "slavery").

In the NT, specifically,  Peter stressed that priority of the early church's charity be given to widows with small children, as widows with grown children should be attended by such, and childless widows cwould be redeemed by their in-laws.

The key in all of this is that, at some point, WORK was involved for all of those, receiving such aid (reinforcing 2 Thess. 3:10).


Check out Deu. 24:17-24

You shall not pervert the justice due an alien or an orphan, nor take a widow's garment in pledge.  


But you shall remember that you were a slave in Egypt, and that the LORD your God redeemed you from there; therefore I am commanding you to do this thing.  

When you reap your harvest in your field and have forgotten a sheaf in the field, you shall not go back to get it; it shall be for the alien, for the orphan, and for the widow, in order that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.  

When you beat your olive tree, you shall not go over the boughs again; it shall be for the alien, for the orphan, and for the widow.  

When you gather the grapes of your vineyard, you shall not go over it again; it shall be for the alien, for the orphan, and for the widow.  


That was charity for the poor. BUT, they had to go out and get the extra grapes, olives, and wheat. Again, the operative word here is WORK.


Yet, another example of how the poor got help:

From Deu. 26.

'Now behold, I have brought the first of the produce of the ground which You, O LORD have given me.' And you shall set it down before the LORD your God, and worship before the LORD your God; and you and the Levite and the alien who is among you shall rejoice in all the good which the LORD your God has given you and your household.  

When you have finished paying all the tithe of your increase in the third year, the year of tithing, then you shall give it to the Levite, to the stranger, to the orphan and to the widow, that they may eat in your towns and be satisfied.  

You shall say before the LORD your God, 'I have removed the sacred portion from my house, and also have given it to the Levite and the alien, the orphan  and the widow, according to all Your commandments which You have commanded me; I have not transgressed or forgotten any of Your commandments.


As stated earlier, neither Old nor New Testament justifies the so-called social justice, advocated by certain liberals (be they ministers or not). The Lord never punished the rich, simply for being rich.

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Re: Beck vs Evangelical leader
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2010, 09:13:52 AM »
I find it utterly hysterical that the marxist/communists who hate religion are now touting Jesus thinking it gives them some bouying in the health care debate.

Funny these same commies are nowhere to be found when abortion or gay marriage comes up.

Freaking phonies. 

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Re: Beck vs Evangelical leader
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2010, 09:59:43 AM »
Both Old and New Testaments gave instructions on how Israel was to treat those less fortunate, none of which REMOTELY resemble the garbage these "social justice" numbskulls keep preaching.

The verse you just paraphrase comes from 2 Thessalonians 3:10.

But, other ways of caring for the poor includes widows serving in the Temple, such as Anna (the prophetess who saw Jesus, when He was around 2 months old in Luke 2).

Other means included people giving themselves into servitude (about which some Bible skeptics whine, regarding "slavery").

In the NT, specifically,  Peter stressed that priority of the early church's charity be given to widows with small children, as widows with grown children should be attended by such, and childless widows cwould be redeemed by their in-laws.

The key in all of this is that, at some point, WORK was involved for all of those, receiving such aid (reinforcing 2 Thess. 3:10).


Check out Deu. 24:17-24

You shall not pervert the justice due an alien or an orphan, nor take a widow's garment in pledge.  


But you shall remember that you were a slave in Egypt, and that the LORD your God redeemed you from there; therefore I am commanding you to do this thing.  

When you reap your harvest in your field and have forgotten a sheaf in the field, you shall not go back to get it; it shall be for the alien, for the orphan, and for the widow, in order that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.  

When you beat your olive tree, you shall not go over the boughs again; it shall be for the alien, for the orphan, and for the widow.  

When you gather the grapes of your vineyard, you shall not go over it again; it shall be for the alien, for the orphan, and for the widow.  


That was charity for the poor. BUT, they had to go out and get the extra grapes, olives, and wheat. Again, the operative word here is WORK.


Yet, another example of how the poor got help:

From Deu. 26.

'Now behold, I have brought the first of the produce of the ground which You, O LORD have given me.' And you shall set it down before the LORD your God, and worship before the LORD your God; and you and the Levite and the alien who is among you shall rejoice in all the good which the LORD your God has given you and your household.  

When you have finished paying all the tithe of your increase in the third year, the year of tithing, then you shall give it to the Levite, to the stranger, to the orphan and to the widow, that they may eat in your towns and be satisfied.  

You shall say before the LORD your God, 'I have removed the sacred portion from my house, and also have given it to the Levite and the alien, the orphan  and the widow, according to all Your commandments which You have commanded me; I have not transgressed or forgotten any of Your commandments.


As stated earlier, neither Old nor New Testament justifies the so-called social justice, advocated by certain liberals (be they ministers or not). The Lord never punished the rich, simply for being rich.


how would these quotes be applied today - should widows, aliens and orphans sell themselves into servitude to wealthy people for table scraps?

since most of our food is from huge corporate farms should they let the widows orphans and aliens rummage through the field for remnants after the first harvest?

Didn't Jesus say something to the effect that by helping others you earn your way into heaven and by not helping others you guarantee yourself a trip to hell?

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Re: Beck vs Evangelical leader
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2010, 10:05:12 AM »
hE ALREADY HAVE FOOD STAMPS. 

BY THE WAY YOUR QUOTE OF JESUS ENSURES EVERY COMMIE/MARXIST IS GOING STRAIGHT TO HELL. 

Straw Man

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Re: Beck vs Evangelical leader
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2010, 10:07:16 AM »
hE ALREADY HAVE FOOD STAMPS. 

BY THE WAY YOUR QUOTE OF JESUS ENSURES EVERY COMMIE/MARXIST IS GOING STRAIGHT TO HELL. 

why all caps?

where did I quote Jesus and if you think about it, according to the fundies, almost everyone is going to Hell

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Re: Beck vs Evangelical leader
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2010, 10:09:04 AM »
why all caps?

where did I quote Jesus and if you think about it, according to the fundies, almost everyone is going to Hell

No, my point was that progressive marxists dont help anyone, they enslave them to the govt and promote laziness and and dependency. 

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Re: Beck vs Evangelical leader
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2010, 10:12:05 AM »
how would these quotes be applied today - should widows, aliens and orphans sell themselves into servitude to wealthy people for table scraps?

What do you think maids, butlers, and housekeepers do? They serve their rich employers. In today's society, there are maids and butlers and housekeepers, who make WAAAY more money than you or I do.



since most of our food is from huge corporate farms should they let the widows orphans and aliens rummage through the field for remnants after the first harvest?

Didn't Jesus say something to the effect that by helping others you earn your way into heaven and by not helping others you guarantee yourself a trip to hell?


No, He did not!! But, thanks for playing!!

The point, which you clearly missed, is that AT NO TIME was anyone FORCED (especially via excessive taxation) to help the poor, particularly in lieu of the poor making little or no attempt to work.

The poor had to go to the field and WORK. No, they didn't get table scraps, as you so inaccurately put it. Read the verses again:

When you reap your harvest in your field and have forgotten a sheaf in the field, you shall not go back to get it; it shall be for the alien, for the orphan, and for the widow, in order that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.  

In other words, what was left in the field was NOT "scraps", else there would have been no need to instruct those of greater wealth NOT to go back and get it. Rich people/middle-class people don't go back for "scraps".

The aid to the poor STILL require work on their end.

And, if you bother reading what the rules were, regarding servitude, it was for a set period of time and upon their contract being up.......

Deu. 15:13-15:

When you set him free, you shall not send him away empty-handed.  

You shall furnish him liberally from your flock and from your threshing floor and from your wine vat; you shall give to him as the LORD your God has blessed you.  

You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God redeemed you; therefore I command you this today.