Author Topic: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit  (Read 4425 times)

The_Hammer

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CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« on: July 19, 2010, 12:49:48 PM »


The truth behind the nation’s massive fiscal problem
9:47 am June 29, 2010, by Jay



Political narratives are precious things these days. They give people a story line, an explanation for why the world is as it is and why their side isn’t to blame. And at the moment, the right’s most important narrative is that the nation’s dangerous and unsustainable budget deficit is the fault of Barack Obama.

Well, it isn’t, as the chart on the right demonstrates. “Together with the economic downturn, the Bush tax cuts and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq explain virtually the entire deficit over the next ten years,” Kathy Ruffing and James R. Horney conclude in a study published by the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities.

The CBPI is a liberal policy-analysis group, and those who are more interested in preserving their faith in conservative narrative than in discovering the truth can and will dismiss its findings on those grounds alone.

But numbers are numbers. If the numbers driving this chart are “liberal,” if the assumptions behind those numbers are “liberal,” then it should be possible for conservatives to explain how and where they’re wrong. The center “shows its work,” as our math teachers used to say, which should make it possible for others to come along and rebut it.

Take, for example, the impact of the economic downturn on the deficit. As the CBPI report notes, the Congressional Budget Office issued projections on Jan. 7, 2009 — two weeks before President Obama even took office — putting the 2009 deficit at well over $1 trillion.

“The recession battered the budget, driving down tax revenues and swelling outlays for unemployment insurance, food stamps, and other safety-net programs,” the CBPI reports. “Using CBO’s August 2008 projections as a benchmark, we calculate that the changed economic outlook accounts for over $400 billion of the deficit each year in 2009 through 2011 and slightly smaller amounts in subsequent years. Those effects persist; even in 2018, the deterioration in the economy since the summer of 2008 will account for over $250 billion in added deficits, much of it in the form of additional debt-service costs.”

Significant tax cuts enacted in a time of war — the first time in U.S. history that such cuts have been enacted — also had a predictable effect:

“Just two policies dating from the Bush Administration — tax cuts and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan — accounted for over $500 billion of the deficit in 2009 and will account for almost $7 trillion in deficits in 2009 through 2019, including the associated debt-service costs. (The prescription drug benefit enacted in 2003 accounts for further substantial increases in deficits and debt, which we are unable to quantify due to data limitations.) These impacts easily dwarf the stimulus and financial rescues. Furthermore, unlike those temporary costs, these inherited policies (especially the tax cuts and the drug benefit) do not fade away as the economy recovers.

Without the economic downturn and the fiscal policies of the previous administration, the budget would be roughly in balance over the next decade. That would have put the nation on a much sounder footing to address the demographic challenges and the cost pressures in health care that darken the long-run fiscal outlook.

Of course, what happened in the past doesn’t get President Obama off the hook for what happens next. If Obama did not create this problem, he will certainly be judged on whether and how he gets us out of it. Ruffing and Horney also acknowledge that fact.

“While President Obama inherited a dismal fiscal legacy, that does not diminish his responsibility to propose policies to address our fiscal imbalance and put the weight of his office behind them,” they write. “Although policymakers should not tighten fiscal policy in the near term while the economy remains fragile, they and the nation at large must come to grips with the nation’s long-term deficit problem.”

That’s going to require both serious budget cuts and significant tax increases, neither of which will be politically popular. But after the G-20 summit in Toronto, Obama noted that a bipartisan deficit-reduction commission that he appointed is expected to produce its report this December, setting the stage for real debate.

“I’m doing it because I said I was going to do it,” Obama said. “And I think it’s the right thing to do. And people should learn that lesson about me, because next year when I start presenting some very difficult choices to the country, I hope some of these folks who are hollering about deficits and debt step up, because I’m calling their bluff. And we’ll see how much of that — how much of the political arguments they’re making right now are real, and how much of it was just politics.”

G_Thang

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Re: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2010, 12:53:52 PM »
no...it's the guy who has been in office less than 2 yrs.  ::)

Coach is Back!

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Re: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2010, 12:58:13 PM »
"The Hammer" = retard

Benny B

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Re: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2010, 12:58:41 PM »


LOL  ;D

Quote
Significant tax cuts enacted in a time of war — the first time in U.S. history that such cuts have been enacted — also had a predictable effect:

“Just two policies dating from the Bush Administration — tax cuts and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan — accounted for over $500 billion of the deficit in 2009 and will account for almost $7 trillion in deficits in 2009 through 2019, including the associated debt-service costs. (The prescription drug benefit enacted in 2003 accounts for further substantial increases in deficits and debt, which we are unable to quantify due to data limitations.) These impacts easily dwarf the stimulus and financial rescues. Furthermore, unlike those temporary costs, these inherited policies (especially the tax cuts and the drug benefit) do not fade away as the economy recovers.
;)



By the way, the analysis appears to have been done by the CBPI, not the CBO.
!

The_Hammer

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Re: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2010, 01:02:51 PM »
"The Hammer" = retard

"The Coach" = ignorant

Benny B

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Re: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2010, 01:08:32 PM »
"The Coach" = ignorant moron
fixed it for ya
!

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Re: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2010, 01:36:24 PM »
No, ignorant moron = anyone stupid enough to vote for a Marixist traitor (Obama in case you couldn't figure it out).

G_Thang

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Re: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2010, 01:55:32 PM »
Bush couldn't find his way out of a paper bag and is too dumb to manipulate the market.  This is the person.  The big fucking jew coc ksucker (no offense Ron) who fucked up america.  They let him give money away to all of his jewish friends.  Notice how he retired soon before the shit hit the fan. 



i guess you want this thread removed by ron.  keep the attention on the white n blk guy.  :-\

benchmstr

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Re: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2010, 03:24:13 PM »
No, ignorant moron = anyone stupid enough to vote for a Marixist traitor (Obama in case you couldn't figure it out).
bro, your so brainwashed it isnt even funny......does it make you feel special to use words that you dont know the meaning of?

bench

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Re: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2010, 03:30:10 PM »
bro, your so brainwashed it isnt even funny......does it make you feel special to use words that you dont know the meaning of?

bench

hahaha...coach post photo of those cute bball girls, esp morena, your train, and i'll go anti-obama this one time, and stun this b###h who calls himself "bench".

ThaRealist

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Re: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2010, 03:52:24 PM »
Another thread about blame Bush for everything and the new president should only receive praise for not doing a damn thing.
You Can't Do It!!!

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Re: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2010, 03:53:03 PM »
 look.. bush rang up a hell of a bill.. but obama has beat him in two years to bushs 8.. they can blame bush and rightfully so.. but obama is outspending him big time..

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Re: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2010, 04:01:08 PM »
All politicans are crooked. They work together.   :-\
They play the public back and forth with this party nonsense.

Coach you need to stay out of politics. Im a conservative too, but you give us a bad name, you cant post anything about politics without using the word "traitor", "lib", or other such news network euphamisms.

All it does is make everyone automatically dismiss whatever you have to say. It makes you sound like youre incapable of your own thought process without fox news to tell you what to think.  :-\

Keep in mind Coach, I am a conservative. I voted for Bush. (And now I wish I hadnt)  :-[

Keep in mind Coach im not badmouthing you I love your training advice and everything else you have to say, its just that youre so close minded and single viewed when it comes to politics that the only thing you accomplish posting what you post, is to give our side a worse name than it already has, and to turn more people away from conservatism....  :(

People see a post from you and see "lib" or "traitor" and instantly their brain shuts off, they dont keep reading, and they just go on by saying "wow another right wing nutbag"...

Your posts read like you hate the guy, but you have no idea why you hate him, and youll just say anything you can because you hate him so much just because hes a democrat, it gives people the impression that youd rather have the country fail than have Obama succeed.

Like it or not, Obama is our president now and we have to rally around him and hope he succeeds, because directly his success IS our success. So wanting him to fail is just saying you want the US to fail.  :-\

Dont take this as an attack, like I said just be mindful of how what you say is taken by people. Of course theyre are left wingers that our just as hard nosed as you, but the guys in the middle who are on the fence, your posts will make them go the other direction....

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Re: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2010, 04:51:31 PM »
All politicans are crooked. They work together.   :-\
They play the public back and forth with this party nonsense.

Coach you need to stay out of politics. Im a conservative too, but you give us a bad name, you cant post anything about politics without using the word "traitor", "lib", or other such news network euphamisms.

All it does is make everyone automatically dismiss whatever you have to say. It makes you sound like youre incapable of your own thought process without fox news to tell you what to think.  :-\

Keep in mind Coach, I am a conservative. I voted for Bush. (And now I wish I hadnt)  :-[

Keep in mind Coach im not badmouthing you I love your training advice and everything else you have to say, its just that youre so close minded and single viewed when it comes to politics that the only thing you accomplish posting what you post, is to give our side a worse name than it already has, and to turn more people away from conservatism....  :(

People see a post from you and see "lib" or "traitor" and instantly their brain shuts off, they dont keep reading, and they just go on by saying "wow another right wing nutbag"...

Your posts read like you hate the guy, but you have no idea why you hate him, and youll just say anything you can because you hate him so much just because hes a democrat, it gives people the impression that youd rather have the country fail than have Obama succeed.

Like it or not, Obama is our president now and we have to rally around him and hope he succeeds, because directly his success IS our success. So wanting him to fail is just saying you want the US to fail.  :-\

Dont take this as an attack, like I said just be mindful of how what you say is taken by people. Of course theyre are left wingers that our just as hard nosed as you, but the guys in the middle who are on the fence, your posts will make them go the other direction....
X2

ThaRealist

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Re: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2010, 04:57:08 PM »
I wish the Republican party would come up with a viable canidate for president other than Palin...With how media controlled the US is, they will probably still praise Obama after he fucks this country up more...
You Can't Do It!!!

Lundgren

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Re: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2010, 05:05:49 PM »
I wish the Republican party would come up with a viable canidate for president other than Palin...With how media controlled the US is, they will probably still praise Obama after he fucks this country up more...
He hasn't really done that much unless I'm missing something. The bailout had to be done or the world economy would of callasped.

Danny

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Re: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2010, 05:40:28 PM »
No, ignorant moron = anyone stupid enough to vote for a Marixist traitor (Obama in case you couldn't figure it out).

What's a "Marixist" ??? All kidding aside, there seems to be a couple of members on this site who constantly call The President of THEIR country a traitor, a nazi and a communist. I'm starting to think they  all listen to the same radio stations and Faux "news"...and get their "news" from the same places. ;D What strikes me is the fact they all associate with this party of "family values" and pretend to be all Christians and shit yet they are displaying and spreading a tremendous amount of HATE when it comes to anything else contrary to their beliefs.  :-\
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Re: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2010, 06:39:18 PM »
This is another Straw man bogus issue by those seeking to provide cover for the failure in office.  he vote

1.  No one disagrees that Obama walked in a mess.  However, he camapaigned for the job and voted for TARP.  In fact, he appointed a Treasury Sec. the main guy who authored TARP in Geithner.  He also campaigned for the job so the blame bush game is very lame 2 years after the fact.

2.  The issue is not that obama single handidly created the deficit, however, he has done absolutely nothing but make it far worse.  Whether its escalating the wars, the bogus stim bill, etc, obama has only made a bad situation worse. 

3. The Democrats have held congress since 2006.  Do they share no blame since congress has the power of the purse and approved every budget from bush as well as the war appropriations?  Letting Pelosi/Reid off the hook is completely partisan hackery at its worst.   

4. Obamacare will add to the deficit as the CBO revised the numbers after passage. 

5.  The issue of the deficit is one thing, but what we do we have to show for it?  The Stim Bill is a complete failure by any stretch.  It failed to keep UEW under 8% promised and mainly only "saved" public sector jobs that should have been dropped anyway.  Those jobs are going away anyway once the stim bill is gone.  So after 860 billion spent, we literally have nothing to show for it but debt.

6.  I will not rally around this presidents policy agenda or programs as they are insane. 

7.  Its not only the deficit as to why many of us loathe Obama.  Its amnesty for illegals, its terrorism trials in NYC, its trashing out allies, etc.   

8.  Blaming Bush forever is childish.  Obama promised that with the Stim Bill UE would stay under 8%.  If Obama's programs were working as adertised and promised, we would not even be having this discussion.  This is more distraction away from the daily failures of this admn.     

9.  Both parties are equally to blame for this

Soul Crusher

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Re: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2010, 07:08:00 PM »
More Government Spending!
by Vernon L. Smith Vernon L. Smith, the George L. Argyros Professor in Finance and Economics at Chapman University, is a 2002 Nobel Laureate in Economics.


 Deficit "stimulus" is not the road to economic recovery. It's the problem, not the solution, writes Nobel laureate economist Vernon L. Smith, who grew up in Depression-era Kansas. Plus, read the original manifesto to reboot America produced by top economists.


Last October a Rasmussen poll was already showing that only one-third of likely voters believed that the stimulus package was helping the economy. You, your fellow citizens and Congress are now concerned that the main effect of the federal stimulus has been to increase the burden of a swollen government living beyond its means. You were told that the stimulus was justified because it would jump-start the economy, setting in motion a recovery that would increase output by more than its increased deficit cost. But you are skeptical that there has been any recovery, and think that you have been misled by the president and the economic experts.

Your doubts have received bipartisan reinforcement. The $860 billion stimulus under the Obama administration was preceded by a $170 billion Bush stimulus that was said to be ineffectual because it was too small. Out of fear, people tended to use the Bush stimulus checks to pay down debt and to increase saving. Unemployment was rising, and large numbers of home owners were already living in homes worth less than what they owed the bank. It is now worse. In the five most severely affected states, here is the percentage of homeowners who owe more than their home is worth: Nevada (70%); Arizona (51%); Florida (48%); Michigan (38%); California (35%). Our current crisis was brought on by government and private programs designed to make it easier for people to buy homes. The result was an unsustainable housing bubble, and ensuing crash that put banks, businesses and households all in debt-reduction mode.

“Our best shot at increasing employment and output is to reduce business taxes and the cost of creating new start-up companies.”

The case for government deficit spending was that idle unemployed labor and capital would be put to work to increase the output of goods and services. Hence, a dollar of government spending would produce more than a dollar of new output because of the “multiplier effect.” Robert Barro of Harvard has studied wartime and defense spending, and found a multiplier of only 0.8. But those were better times, when businesses, banks, and consumers were not primarily concerned to use new income to pay down debt or save to protect against income loss. Even in better times there wasn’t much bang for the buck.

So what has been the government’s response in the current crisis? Besides spending stimulus, it was tax incentives for new home buyers and cash for clunkers if you bought a new car. All three are programs for borrowing output, homes and cars from future production and sales. Using subsidies to pump up home sales beyond what people could afford was the problem that led to the crisis. Now the problem is touted as the solution.
We are in times not seen since the Depression, when at its depth in 1934 my parents lost their Kansas farm to the bank. Such memories and the intensity of the current crisis led me and my colleague, Steven Gjerstad, to examine the last 14 recessions including the Depression. We have been surprised and dismayed to learn that in 11 of these 14 recessions the percentage decline in new house expenditure preceded and exceeded percentage declines in every other major component of GDP. Hence the sources of the current debacle are hardly new! Moreover, past recoveries in the housing market have been closely associated with recovery from recession. The latest data continue to tell us that the turnaround in housing, consumer durables, and business investment are all anemic.

Our past housing and government spending mistakes leave us with no good choices. But please no more government spending! The deficit must now be faced. Avoid any new taxes; they are unlikely to reduce the deficit without discouraging recovery.

Our best shot at increasing employment and output is to reduce business taxes and the cost of creating new start-up companies. Don’t subsidize them; just reduce their taxes even as they become larger; also reduce any unnecessary impediments to their formation. This is strongly indicated by the business dynamics program of the Bureau of Census and the Kauffman Foundation which has tracked new startup firms in the period 1980-2005. The entry of new firms net of departing firms in this period account for a remarkable two-thirds more employment growth (3 percent per year) than the average of all firms in the US (1.8 percent per year). The invigorating turmoil created by new technologies, with accompanying growth in output, productivity, and employment lead to new business formation as old firms inevitably fail. Reducing barriers to that growth encourage a recovery path which does not mortgage future output.

Vernon L. Smith, the George L. Argyros Professor in Finance and Economics at Chapman University, is a 2002 Nobel Laureate in Economics.

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Re: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2010, 07:18:57 PM »
He hasn't really done that much unless I'm missing something. The bailout had to be done or the world economy would of callasped.
LOL I bet you think the health care bill is still going to save us money dont you?

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Re: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2010, 11:33:23 PM »
Well Bravo!!!! Atleast this group in the article admitted that they were liberal and didnt try to tout themselves as being mainstream or objective. But what a crappy analysis. Iraq and Afghanistan have been going on for 8 years now. National Defense is the number 1 priority investment that a country makes. National Defense is the one federal expense that the Constitution explicitly grants the federal government to perform. So you really have to dig to blame Bush for deficits from "wars not payed for by tax cuts" . And again, I hate to go back on this argument from another thread, but revenue never deviates long term from 18-20% of GDP. Government cannot control how much revenue it gets because it cannot control people's behavior. You cant wave a magic wand and make businesses productive enough to be able to pay you more taxes. If you try to make them pay more taxes, they just wont be productive enough to be able to pay you the higher taxes. So its a catch 22. That's why revenues never deviate much from the average, and that's why its a dead horse argument to blame deficits on tax cuts.

The deficit got down to hisorically low levels by 2007, WAY after the tax cuts and wars were implemnted. What changed was the recession and the bailouts and stimulus packages. George Bush is responsble for only 3.75 months of fiscal 2009. Barack Obama is responsible for 8.25 months of fiscal 2009. And $700 billion of what Bush is responsible for was voted on by Barack Obama. And that $700 billion got payed back.

The article is pure crap.
Jan. Jobs: 36,000!!

GigantorX

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Re: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2010, 05:03:57 AM »
Well Bravo!!!! Atleast this group in the article admitted that they were liberal and didnt try to tout themselves as being mainstream or objective. But what a crappy analysis. Iraq and Afghanistan have been going on for 8 years now. National Defense is the number 1 priority investment that a country makes. National Defense is the one federal expense that the Constitution explicitly grants the federal government to perform. So you really have to dig to blame Bush for deficits from "wars not payed for by tax cuts" . And again, I hate to go back on this argument from another thread, but revenue never deviates long term from 18-20% of GDP. Government cannot control how much revenue it gets because it cannot control people's behavior. You cant wave a magic wand and make businesses productive enough to be able to pay you more taxes. If you try to make them pay more taxes, they just wont be productive enough to be able to pay you the higher taxes. So its a catch 22. That's why revenues never deviate much from the average, and that's why its a dead horse argument to blame deficits on tax cuts.

The deficit got down to hisorically low levels by 2007, WAY after the tax cuts and wars were implemnted. What changed was the recession and the bailouts and stimulus packages. George Bush is responsble for only 3.75 months of fiscal 2009. Barack Obama is responsible for 8.25 months of fiscal 2009. And $700 billion of what Bush is responsible for was voted on by Barack Obama. And that $700 billion got payed back.

The article is pure crap.

+1,0000000000000.

End of Thread.

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Re: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2010, 05:19:39 AM »
I still am waiting for an answer from any of these fools solely blaming Bush where Pelosi fits in to this since she has been in control of the House of Reps since 2006. 

Its easy to simply blame the finger at Bush, and that is what small minded children like to do, as opposed to looking at the entire situation.

When Bush came into office he had the explosion of the dot com bubble as well as 911.  Do you libs remember those two events? 

 

 

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Re: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2010, 05:56:48 AM »
What's a "Marixist" ??? All kidding aside, there seems to be a couple of members on this site who constantly call The President of THEIR country a traitor, a nazi and a communist. I'm starting to think they  all listen to the same radio stations and Faux "news"...and get their "news" from the same places. ;D What strikes me is the fact they all associate with this party of "family values" and pretend to be all Christians and shit yet they are displaying and spreading a tremendous amount of HATE when it comes to anything else contrary to their beliefs.  :-\

Whats a racist?This administration must get their news from sources like Mess Nbc because even that little dunce Joe Biden believed their report of black congressmen getting called racial slurs when heath care passed.No video of course,no proof at all of course,just little retards from sources like MSNBC spreading hatefull lies about tax paying Americans using their first amendment rights , and fools like Biden and this administration believing it was hateful or racist.

This coming from the party that all the time says it believes in fairness and social justice doing nothing but spreading hateful lies about fellow Americans.

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Re: CBO Blame George Bush for Most of Deficit
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2010, 08:48:16 AM »
Ha, ha!  Fucking owned by your own Cooch...If he and Lundrgren feels that way about you, how the f uck do you think a "lib" like myself feels whe you bad mouth the "CINC" Commander in Chief"...douchebag.  Guess I was right about you all along....or that's the perception of you emit.
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