Author Topic: Using deca for a long time..  (Read 8865 times)

Meso_z

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Using deca for a long time..
« on: August 17, 2010, 01:29:37 AM »
what will be the side effects? longterm?

say a 16 week of 400mg of course with test then switch to eq for couple months.

for a contest, too much?

i have used once deca in the past 14 weeks 400mg no problem..

jon cole

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Re: Using deca for a long time..
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2010, 05:37:36 AM »
what will be the side effects? longterm?

say a 16 week of 400mg of course with test then switch to eq for couple months.

for a contest, too much?

i have used once deca in the past 14 weeks 400mg no problem..

side effect = deca dick - lacatating gyno - bloat - appetite

but mass.
asstropin

4thAD

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Re: Using deca for a long time..
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2010, 07:38:12 AM »
You should only get those sides if you dont take proper precautions. Keep Caber/Dostinex on hand, and keep your estrogen in control right from the get go.

Meso_z

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Re: Using deca for a long time..
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2010, 08:13:06 AM »
You should only get those sides if you dont take proper precautions. Keep Caber/Dostinex on hand, and keep your estrogen in control right from the get go.
isnt a 16 week a long course though? any long term sides?

it will be a part of my contest prep..

4thAD

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Re: Using deca for a long time..
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2010, 12:32:52 PM »
16 weeks is minimum as far as far as I'm concerned with Nandralone Decanoate. Now if you were to run NPP you could run it for a shorter time, and I think NPP would be a better choice for contest prep.

CAPTAIN INSANO

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Re: Using deca for a long time..
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2010, 04:43:11 PM »
16 weeks is minimum as far as far as I'm concerned with Nandralone Decanoate. Now if you were to run NPP you could run it for a shorter time, and I think NPP would be a better choice for contest prep.

x2

I'd run NPP for Weeks 1-8..then switch to Tren

tbombz

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Re: Using deca for a long time..
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2010, 04:54:18 PM »
you can run deca for 16 weeks, 8 weeks, one month, or just one single cc.

the point is to get androgens floating aorund in yoru system. 

if one week you switched out one of your  250mg cc's of test for a cc of 250mg deca, and afterwards kept just running the same cycle as you were before.. would there be any difference ?? no

if your going to run deca alone, then it would be wise to go ahead and purchase enough to run it for at least 4-5 months. but if you only have one bottle, or one ampule, or any amount of the steroid.. you can go ahead and use up what youve got.

3 weeks of deca by itself will give the same results as 3 weeks of deca out of a 16 week cycle of deca. let me try to explain better..


take the following....

deca 500mg per week
week 1
week 2
week 3

week 4
week 5
week 6
week 7
week 8
week 9
week 10
week 11
week 12
week 13
week 14
week 15
week 16


 during weeks 1-3 of the roid cycle you put on X amount of weight.  then during weeks 4-16 you put on Y amount of weight. so now youve put on the sum total of X+Y.

do you think that the amount of weight "X" (gained during weeks 1-3) would change if you didnt do weeks 4-16 afterwards ??  nope, the amount gained during weeks 1-3 would remain unchanged, regardless of whatever you ran afterwards.


so there is no minimum amount of time to take any steroid.  when people say "take deca for at least 16 weeks".. what they mean to say is...   deca is not going to make you put on any noticeable size unless you use it for an extended period of time, probably at least 16 weeks before you would see any real changes.

4thAD

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Re: Using deca for a long time..
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2010, 05:14:37 PM »
you can run deca for 16 weeks, 8 weeks, one month, or just one single cc.

the point is to get androgens floating aorund in yoru system. 

if one week you switched out one of your  250mg cc's of test for a cc of 250mg deca, and afterwards kept just running the same cycle as you were before.. would there be any difference ?? no

if your going to run deca alone, then it would be wise to go ahead and purchase enough to run it for at least 4-5 months. but if you only have one bottle, or one ampule, or any amount of the steroid.. you can go ahead and use up what youve got.

3 weeks of deca by itself will give the same results as 3 weeks of deca out of a 16 week cycle of deca. let me try to explain better..


take the following....

deca 500mg per week
week 1
week 2
week 3

week 4
week 5
week 6
week 7
week 8
week 9
week 10
week 11
week 12
week 13
week 14
week 15
week 16


 during weeks 1-3 of the roid cycle you put on X amount of weight.  then during weeks 4-16 you put on Y amount of weight. so now youve put on the sum total of X+Y.

do you think that the amount of weight "X" (gained during weeks 1-3) would change if you didnt do weeks 4-16 afterwards ??  nope, the amount gained during weeks 1-3 would remain unchanged, regardless of whatever you ran afterwards.


so there is no minimum amount of time to take any steroid.  when people say "take deca for at least 16 weeks".. what they mean to say is...   deca is not going to make you put on any noticeable size unless you use it for an extended period of time, probably at least 16 weeks before you would see any real changes.

Are you serious with this bs? come on man seriously? I think people are smart enough to know what we mean with out a book from you outlining it for them.

tbombz

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Re: Using deca for a long time..
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2010, 06:22:52 PM »
so people would be stupid if they didnt understand that ? 

its not about thinking people are stupid, which you seemingly do, but about helping more accurately clarify advice(s) so that the OP (and everyone else who might read) will have all the info, not just a bit of it which could lead them to false conclusions.

Meso_z

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Re: Using deca for a long time..
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2010, 12:39:22 AM »
you can run deca for 16 weeks, 8 weeks, one month, or just one single cc.

the point is to get androgens floating aorund in yoru system. 

if one week you switched out one of your  250mg cc's of test for a cc of 250mg deca, and afterwards kept just running the same cycle as you were before.. would there be any difference ?? no

if your going to run deca alone, then it would be wise to go ahead and purchase enough to run it for at least 4-5 months. but if you only have one bottle, or one ampule, or any amount of the steroid.. you can go ahead and use up what youve got.

3 weeks of deca by itself will give the same results as 3 weeks of deca out of a 16 week cycle of deca. let me try to explain better..


take the following....

deca 500mg per week
week 1
week 2
week 3

week 4
week 5
week 6
week 7
week 8
week 9
week 10
week 11
week 12
week 13
week 14
week 15
week 16


 during weeks 1-3 of the roid cycle you put on X amount of weight.  then during weeks 4-16 you put on Y amount of weight. so now youve put on the sum total of X+Y.

do you think that the amount of weight "X" (gained during weeks 1-3) would change if you didnt do weeks 4-16 afterwards ??  nope, the amount gained during weeks 1-3 would remain unchanged, regardless of whatever you ran afterwards.


so there is no minimum amount of time to take any steroid.  when people say "take deca for at least 16 weeks".. what they mean to say is...   deca is not going to make you put on any noticeable size unless you use it for an extended period of time, probably at least 16 weeks before you would see any real changes.

I dont really care about the duration....im more worried about health risks..with deca and generally. considering that i will do a 16week deca and then switching to something else like eq for a 12week and so on....year round mainly for competitions..

tbombz

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Re: Using deca for a long time..
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2010, 05:06:36 PM »
I dont really care about the duration....im more worried about health risks..with deca and generally. considering that i will do a 16week deca and then switching to something else like eq for a 12week and so on....year round mainly for competitions..


theres no real health risks beyond hpta/testicular shutdown  .. month long cycle, year long cycle, decade long cycle..  if your genetically predisposed to prostate cancer or cardiovascular issues then long term steroid useage may cause either of those to "speed up"... but beyond that i wouldnt worry about anything

MuscleMcMannus

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Re: Using deca for a long time..
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2010, 05:29:09 PM »
This urban legend of deca causing all these problems is typical "bro science".  LOTS of guys use deca no problems.  Yes it will bloat you up.  But as far as the other sides it all depends on the individuals.  I love deca.  With a little bromocriptine and it's awesome!

WillGrant

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Re: Using deca for a long time..
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2010, 05:03:32 AM »
This urban legend of deca causing all these problems is typical "bro science".  LOTS of guys use deca no problems.  Yes it will bloat you up.  But as far as the other sides it all depends on the individuals.  I love deca.  With a little bromocriptine and it's awesome!
This ..its either for you or not , everyone reacts to every single drug in different ways ..some get said sides some dont , some get major some get minor or none.

4thAD

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Re: Using deca for a long time..
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2010, 11:20:00 AM »
so people would be stupid if they didnt understand that ? 

its not about thinking people are stupid, which you seemingly do, but about helping more accurately clarify advice(s) so that the OP (and everyone else who might read) will have all the info, not just a bit of it which could lead them to false conclusions.

Actually I don't think anyone here is stupid. Don't put words in my mouth. You just seem to have the need to always out do everyone on the board with this kind of BS. Relax is all I'm saying, they get it, because their not stupid.

tbombz

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Re: Using deca for a long time..
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2010, 06:10:25 PM »
Actually I don't think anyone here is stupid. Don't put words in my mouth. You just seem to have the need to always out do everyone on the board with this kind of BS. Relax is all I'm saying, they get it, because their not stupid.
if you feel like im trying to "out do" you, then im sorry your ego is getting the way of your interpretation skills. i enjoy elaborating on ideas i feel other people may have some confusion about. that is all. if you have something to share, im always welcome to reading it, especially if its something i didnt know before or hadnt thought about before. dont be afraid to try and "out do" me..  ;D

4thAD

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Re: Using deca for a long time..
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2010, 07:40:03 PM »
if you feel like im trying to "out do" you, then im sorry your ego is getting the way of your interpretation skills. i enjoy elaborating on ideas i feel other people may have some confusion about. that is all. if you have something to share, im always welcome to reading it, especially if its something i didnt know before or hadnt thought about before. dont be afraid to try and "out do" me..  ;D

No ego problems here, I have no need to out do you or anyone else, you just make your self look like a Tool. My life experience alone out does you. Get off the BS studies, and get some real life experience.

Overload

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Re: Using deca for a long time..
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2010, 02:30:21 PM »
Deca is my favorite AAS after Test, but it gave me horrible acne.

No issues other than that.

I do believe that Deca should be ran for a few months minimum to get the benefits from it.

If you have any minor aches or pains they will fade with Deca, but don't use this as an excuse not to do proper warm ups and light weight sets at the beginning of your routine.


8)

4thAD

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Re: Using deca for a long time..
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2010, 05:32:17 PM »
Deca is my favorite AAS after Test, but it gave me horrible acne.

No issues other than that.

I do believe that Deca should be ran for a few months minimum to get the benefits from it.

If you have any minor aches or pains they will fade with Deca, but don't use this as an excuse not to do proper warm ups and light weight sets at the beginning of your routine.


8)

Agreed. I get just a little acne when hormone levels are going up, or coming down. During the cycle, I'm usually clear.

clued-up

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Re: Using deca for a long time..
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2010, 10:32:04 AM »
I've run low dose of deca for a year straight non stop... no problems.

tbombz

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Re: Using deca for a long time..
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2010, 01:03:55 AM »
No ego problems here, I have no need to out do you or anyone else, you just make your self look like a Tool. My life experience alone out does you. Get off the BS studies, and get some real life experience.
  ::)

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Using deca for a long time..
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2010, 02:52:05 AM »
Any steroid you take starts working immediately. And any steroid gives the most gains in the first few weeks, including Deca. It's just like tbombz said, the reason longer cycles are recommended with certain steroids is because they are so weak. Relatively. You need a long time to pile on appreciable gains, seen by mirror/scale, yet if you really tracked your progress with some advanced body composition methods you'd see progress was faster initially (with any steroid). Winstrol cycles are always longer than Dbol. Why? Because Dbol is stronger, not because Winstrol doesn't start working within hours/minutes.

There's no minimum time to take any steroid. Take a single shot of 300mg a Deca and for a couple of weeks your protein synthesis is greatly elevated. But longer is always better for obvious reasons.

MuscleMcMannus

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Re: Using deca for a long time..
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2010, 04:30:27 AM »
Any steroid you take starts working immediately. And any steroid gives the most gains in the first few weeks, including Deca. It's just like tbombz said, the reason longer cycles are recommended with certain steroids is because they are so weak. Relatively. You need a long time to pile on appreciable gains, seen by mirror/scale, yet if you really tracked your progress with some advanced body composition methods you'd see progress was faster initially (with any steroid). Winstrol cycles are always longer than Dbol. Why? Because Dbol is stronger, not because Winstrol doesn't start working within hours/minutes.

There's no minimum time to take any steroid. Take a single shot of 300mg a Deca and for a couple of weeks your protein synthesis is greatly elevated. But longer is always better for obvious reasons.

Ummmmmmmmm "greatly elevated"......."first few weeks"................"long time to pile on appreciable gains"........."dbol is stronger than winny"..............listen to you........your post makes absolutely zero sense from a physiological or pharmaceutical perspective.   ::)

tstmaniac

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Re: Using deca for a long time..
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2010, 07:55:17 AM »
Winstrol cycles are longer because dbol is more toxic on the liver

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Using deca for a long time..
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2010, 08:35:46 AM »
Ummmmmmmmm "greatly elevated"......."first few weeks"................"long time to pile on appreciable gains"........."dbol is stronger than winny"..............listen to you........your post makes absolutely zero sense from a physiological or pharmaceutical perspective.   ::)

Please explain what you're opposed to exactly.

A shot of Deca greatly elevates protein synthesis. Fact. Just because protein synthesis is greatly elevated doesn't mean you put on 5lbs of pure muscle tissue in a week. Protein synthesis could be increased by several hundred percent yet it wouldn't necessarily register on a scale in a few days or even weeks.

Dbol is seen as a stronger anabolic than Winstrol by the majority of people. Sure, there may be more water retention with Dbol but fact remains, most consider Dbol "stronger". Quick "gains" is why short Dbol cycles are considered adequate by many.

Do you consider Winstrol a stronger anabolic than Dbol?

LBM gain is always the fastest in the beginning of administration of any steroid. Do you disagree? Have any data support the opposite?

I'm reminded of how you're also supposed to take Test Enanthate for at least 12 or 16 or whatever weeks and how it doesn't even start working until 4 or 5 weeks in. There was this great study, which I've posted here before, where they immobilized test subject for 4 weeks. Isocaloric diet. Gave them T3 to increase catabolism further from the immobilization while administering 200mg of TE per week. In 4 weeks these subject put on 4-5lbs of lbm while dropping about the same in bodyfat. Only 4 shots of test! Hey, I thought TE doesn't even "kick in" until 4-5 weeks in?  ??? ::)

There was even a WADA sponsored study on TE, on how long it would take for measurable gains to manifest at a modest dose. I think already at 3 weeks there were appreciable gains. But I thought it hasn't even started working at that point. ??? ::)


Winstrol cycles are longer because dbol is more toxic on the liver

AFAIAC there is little evidence Dbol is more liver toxic than Winstrol, on a milligram to milligram basis. If you have any data I'd like to see it.

Dbol causes quick weight increases, may increase BP more, may cause painful lower back pumps (which many think is kidney pain) etc, which many ignorant people equate with straight out toxicity. "Hey, it's really potent, it must be killing my liver and kidneys."

Of course, Winstrol is notorious for annihilating HDL quickly yet people routinely run it 10-12 weeks, with dosages such as 100mg/day, with not a worry in the world. Why do they do it? Because 4 weeks on Winstrol wont do nearly as much as Dbol as far as changing your physique. Personally I'd much rather do Dbol than Winstrol for 4 months straight.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Using deca for a long time..
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2010, 08:49:22 AM »
There was even a WADA sponsored study on TE, on how long it would take for measurable gains to manifest at a modest dose. I think already at 3 weeks there were appreciable gains. But I thought it hasn't even started working at that point. ??? ::)

Here it is. You can clearly gain doing short cycles with "long acting" compounds.

Quote
J Strength Cond Res. 2007 May;21(2):354-61.
The effect of short-term use of testosterone enanthate on muscular strength and power in healthy young men.

Rogerson S, Weatherby RP, Deakin GB, Meir RA, Coutts RA, Zhou S, Marshall-Gradisnik SM.

School of Exercise and Sport Management, Southern Cross University, Lismore, New Wales, Australia. srogerson10@bigpond.com
Abstract

Use of testosterone enanthate has been shown to significantly increase strength within 6-12 weeks of administration (2, 9), however, it is unclear if the ergogenic benefits are evident in less than 6 weeks. Testosterone enanthate is classified as a prohibited substance by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) and its use may be detected by way of the urinary testosterone/epitestosterone (T/E) ratio (16). The two objectives of this study were to establish (a) if injection of 3.5 mg.kg(-1) testosterone enanthate once per week could increase muscular strength and cycle sprint performance in 3-6 weeks; and (b) if the WADA-imposed urinary T/E ratio of 4:1 could identify all subjects being administered 3.5 mg.kg(-1) testosterone enanthate. Sixteen healthy young men were match-paired and were assigned randomly in a double-blind manner to either a testosterone enanthate or a placebo group. All subjects performed a structured heavy resistance training program while receiving either testosterone enanthate (3.5 mg.kg(-1)) or saline injections once weekly for 6 weeks. One repetition maximum (1RM) strength measures and 10-second cycle sprint performance were monitored at the pre (week 0), mid (week 3), and post (week 6) time points. Body mass and the urinary T/E ratio were measured at the pre (week 0) and post (week 6) time points. When compared with baseline (pre), 1RM bench press strength and total work during the cycle sprint increased significantly at week 3 (p < 0.01) and week 6 (p < 0.01) in the testosterone enanthate group, but not in the placebo group. Body mass at week 6 was significantly greater than at baseline in the testosterone enanthate group (p < 0.01), but not in the placebo group. Despite the clear ergogenic effects of testosterone enanthate in as little as 3 weeks, 4 of the 9 subjects in the testosterone enanthate group ( approximately 44%) did not test positive to testosterone under current WADA urinary T/E ratio criteria.

PMID: 17530941
 

This at a dose where many didn't even test positive.