What do religious people think they are doing when they pray?

[Deicide]

theres very little proof jesus existed.

Agreed. I studied the issue for a number of years and concluded that there was likely never even a human Christ, let alone a deity by that name.

[Man of Steel]

Agreed. I studied the issue for a number of years and concluded that there was likely never even a human Christ, let alone a deity by that name.

Funny, I've done the same and reached the opposite conclusion. 

[CC973]

Funny, I've done the same and reached the opposite conclusion. 

x2

[Tito24]

maybe you shouldnt use ted haggards books as source then?

[YngiweRhoads]

maybe you shouldnt use ted haggards books as source then?

Bingo.

[Man of Steel]

maybe you shouldnt use ted haggards books as source then?

Who are you replying to?

[CC973]

Where does the Nation Of Islam fit into all this?  What about the Honorable Elijah Muhammad?  Remember he was the last messenger of Allah.

There always seems to be confusion over what the Nation of Islam teaches.  They don't say that Elijah Muhammad  was the last messenger of Allah.  They believe that God came to Elijah Muhammad in the person of Master Fard Muhammad as a means to deliver Islam to a people who had been taken from their homeland and destroyed.

If you listen to the teachings of Minister Farrakhan he actually teaches Jesus better than most Christian preachers I have seen.

[CC973]

.

[Deicide]

Funny, I've done the same and reached the opposite conclusion. 

No doubt. You believe not based on evidence but because of faith, the desire to do so, irrespective of the truth. If you were some other religious follower you would no doubt be affirming the existence of whatever other magical god man they invented.

[TEsticles]

[Man of Steel]

No doubt. You believe not based on evidence but because of faith, the desire to do so, irrespective of the truth. If you were some other religious follower you would no doubt be affirming the existence of whatever other magical god man they invented.

A believer knows God exists because of our individual and personal relationships with him and the works he's done in us, but as believers we have faith in that which he has already done/said and has promised will be.  Further we know Christ is alive and well because of empirical evidence.  There is nothing more personal in our walk with Christ then our own observations and experiences.  That in turn is what we share with others.  We want to encourage others to come to know Christ in a personal way and help them understand that Christ wants a relationship with each of us and that his love is deep enough to cover all of us completely if we seek him.

On a personal note, I often find that the staunchest opposition to Christ are typically the same people that desperately want someone like Christ in their lives the most.  They want to know the love of Christ, but because of past experiences and influences they simply can't relent their worldly positions.  I understand this, I do.  Others fear that a relationship with Christ will lead to a boring, diminished lifestyle....that they'll have to give up those sinful pleasures they relish so.  Others take solace in attempts to intellectualize away their sins via the regurgitation of the philosophy like that of Hume, Locke, etc....  What they refuse to give creedance to is that Christ washes clean the sins of your heart and gives you new eyes and perspective.  A heart aligned with Christ no longer sees the world as it once did.  Sure believers and nonbelievers alike make mistakes....we're all sinners and always will be.  Fortunately as believers we confess our sins and are forgiven via the grace of God.   Repentance isn't a license to sin by any means, but it is nice to know that when we falter and succumb to our old sinful ways that we can turn it all over to Christ because of his sacrifice on the cross.  

[Mr. Magoo]

Without using the quote function to pinpoint 1-2 sentences that man of steel has made in the past page or so. I want to disagree with him on one point.

Christians do not believe in christ on empirical evidence. By faith, not by works, are ye saved. Paul talked about it comes down to faith. Evidence of things not seen. Christians believe in jesus christ that he came and died for the sins of the world and whosoever believes in him (whosoever has faith in jesus christ) can be saved. People may experience God in their lives at difficult moments or at happy times and may feel God working their lives, but this is not what lead them to believe to begin with. That was faith. Nobody looks towards science studies before believing on christ to determine whether or not they should make that decision. They know in their heart that christ exists and lives in them, not by reality, although reality (incidences in life) can boost faith, it still comes down to faith. Trusting in God as one's savior does not involve research studies or lab experiments

Yes things happen in christians lives where they can point to God and say "for we know that all things work together for good for them that love God", but faith in God that he sent his son to die on the cross was what lead them to be saved.

EDIT: some people say that the old catholic priests (or philosophers, whatever you want to call them) like aquinas or anslem all fell into the trap of the scientists by being enticed to provide a rational scientific argument for the existence of God and to put a human understanding on a heavenly subject which proves to be very hard to do, opening loopholes which skeptics can easily point out and say that this is why religion should not be believed

[Man of Steel]

Without using the quote function to pinpoint 1-2 sentences that man of steel has made in the past page or so. I want to disagree with him on one point.

Christians do not believe in christ on empirical evidence. By faith, not by works, are ye saved. Paul talked about it comes down to faith. Evidence of things not seen. Christians believe in jesus christ that he came and died for the sins of the world and whosoever believes in him (whosoever has faith in jesus christ) can be saved. People may experience God in their lives at difficult moments or at happy times and may feel God working their lives, but this is not what lead them to believe to begin with. That was faith. Nobody looks towards science studies before believing on christ to determine whether or not they should make that decision. They know in their heart that christ exists and lives in them, not by reality, although reality (incidences in life) can boost faith, it still comes down to faith. Trusting in God as one's savior does not involve research studies or lab experiments

Yes things happen in christians lives where they can point to God and say "for we know that all things work together for good for them that love God", but faith in God that he sent his son to die on the cross was what lead them to be saved.

The vast majority of believers come to know Christ because of the influence of an existing Christian witness.  It's the testimony of this person in which they share their empirical evidence for Christ (their observations and experiences) that encourages a nonbeliever to pursue a personal relationship with Christ.  Although, as I did state previously as believers we have faith in that which he has already done/said and has promised will be (those things we can't see), but once we are saved (through faith) we know that we are saved always.  It is often in the face of adversity that our faith in Christ is tested the most be it physical, emotional, intellectual or spiritual trials.  Yes, it is by faith we are saved, but that faith is often initiated based on the testimony of an existing believer or body of believers.  A nonbeliever must first have faith that the word of God and the words of his believers are true; although, I didn't state that in my single previous post that aspect of salvation is implied.  It's perfectly fine if it's spelled out more clearly here.

[Tito24]

A believer knows God exists because of our individual and personal relationships with him and the works he's done in us,

these works you attribute to an invisible guy in the sky, we see it as things that happened just by chance. sometimes ur lucky, other times ur not.

[freespirit]

Agreed. I studied the issue for a number of years and concluded that there was likely never even a human Christ, let alone a deity by that name.

Jesus Christ is NOT the son of God, he's just another guru and his real name was something like Joshua. Religious people need heroes to look up to, and worshipping a hero is like worshipping a statue. It's utter bullshit. "Kill" your idols and look into yourself. Every other religion is just another belief system. there is no heaven, there is no hell. God is not some kind of being, God is everywhere and everything. Your body dies, your spirit lives. Forever!

[NarcissisticDeity]

Funny, I've done the same and reached the opposite conclusion. 

Consider your sources , they need Jesus to be real

[Fallsview]

There always seems to be confusion over what the Nation of Islam teaches.  They don't say that Elijah Muhammad  was the last messenger of Allah.  They believe that God came to Elijah Muhammad in the person of Master Fard Muhammad as a means to deliver Islam to a people who had been taken from their homeland and destroyed.

If you listen to the teachings of Minister Farrakhan he actually teaches Jesus better than most Christian preachers I have seen.

You are wrong!!!! 
http://www.muhammadspeaks.com/MessengerHistory.html

[Man of Steel]

these works you attribute to an invisible guy in the sky, we see it as things that happened just by chance. sometimes ur lucky, other times ur not.

I understand this perspective....I really, truly do.  My best adivce, if you choose to (and you're absolutely free to choose your own path), is to take your concerns to the source.  Pray to God about salvation and coming to have a relationship with him.  If you pursue that road with an open heart that is genuine in spirit you'll find your answer.

"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."  (Romans 10:9)
 

[Man of Steel]

Consider your sources , they need Jesus to be real

Everyone needs Jesus to be real; unfortunately most never come to the realization that he is.  There again comes a believer's responsibility to tell others about Christ as best they are able.  For those that spend a lifetime attempting to refute that God exists others spend a lifetime filling their lives with his abundant love and study of his word.   

Respectfully, I dare you to pursue a genuine relationship with him and then tell me he's not real.

[Fallsview]

Lets break it down.  Muhammad was crazy,  his family thought so.  He left and found some "thugs" that listened to him.  They went out to rape and steal and Muhammad told them this was wrong.  These thugs kinda told good ol' Mu to "take a hike" and Mu was left by himself.  BUT wait, if you are doing this for "GOD" then this is not wrong!  BINGO, Mu has a following again.  This is why there are no photos/images allowed of Mu!  It would be to easy to identify a robber/rappist then, esp. if there were Post Offices back then.  

Islam three choices of non-believers:

Convert
Pay the tax (Jizya)
Die

Hey, Just a few months ago a Husband and Wife in Orchard Park NY, who ran an Islam TV station had a problem.  His wife was going to divorce him so what did he do?  Cut her head off at the TV station.  Oh Well!

[Man of Steel]

Jesus Christ is NOT the son of God, he's just another guru and his real name was something like Joshua. Religious people need heroes to look up to, and worshipping a hero is like worshipping a statue. It's utter bullshit. "Kill" your idols and look into yourself. Every other religion is just another belief system. there is no heaven, there is no hell. God is not some kind of being, God is everywhere and everything. Your body dies, your spirit lives. Forever!

"Jesus" is Yeshua in Aramaic (forgive my spelling here).  Yeshua is like Joshua and I assume that's what you mean.  Yeshua is Jesus of Nazareth.

Idols are human creations designed for worship....golden calves, etc....  So absolutely, shed your lives of idolotry.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Everyone needs Jesus to be real; unfortunately most never come to the realization that he is.  There again comes a believer's responsibility to tell others about Christ as best they are able.  For those that spend a lifetime attempting to refute that God exists others spend a lifetime filling their lives with his abundant love and study of his word.   

Respectfully, I dare you to pursue a genuine relationship with him and then tell me he's not real.

Not quite , Christians NEED Jesus to be real , it validates their beliefs , I don't need Jesus to be real in fact if you look honestly and objectively it's very hard to prove he existed and what he do know even from Christian sources is ALL second hand none of the new testament is written by Jesus himself

It's very hard for Christians to be objective on the subject for them literally everything hinges on his existence , they have to much invested to be really honest and objective that's why everything is based on belief and faith.

[Man of Steel]

Not quite , Christians NEED Jesus to be real , it validates their beliefs , I don't need Jesus to be real in fact if you look honestly and objectively it's very hard to prove he existed and what he do know even from Christian sources is ALL second hand none of the new testament is written by Jesus himself

It's very hard for Christians to be objective on the subject for them literally everything hinges on his existence , they have to much invested to be really honest and objective that's why everything is based on belief and faith.

Again, respectfully, I have no worries about whether or not he's real.   And I'm completely lucid to boot.

[Deicide]

A believer knows God exists because of our individual and personal relationships with him and the works he's done in us, but as believers we have faith in that which he has already done/said and has promised will be.  Further we know Christ is alive and well because of empirical evidence.  There is nothing more personal in our walk with Christ then our own observations and experiences.  That in turn is what we share with others.  We want to encourage others to come to know Christ in a personal way and help them understand that Christ wants a relationship with each of us and that his love is deep enough to cover all of us completely if we seek him.

On a personal note, I often find that the staunchest opposition to Christ are typically the same people that desperately want someone like Christ in their lives the most.  They want to know the love of Christ, but because of past experiences and influences they simply can't relent their worldly positions.  I understand this, I do.  Others fear that a relationship with Christ will lead to a boring, diminished lifestyle....that they'll have to give up those sinful pleasures they relish so.  Others take solace in attempts to intellectualize away their sins via the regurgitation of the philosophy like that of Hume, Locke, etc....  What they refuse to give creedance to is that Christ washes clean the sins of your heart and gives you new eyes and perspective.  A heart aligned with Christ no longer sees the world as it once did.  Sure believers and nonbelievers alike make mistakes....we're all sinners and always will be.  Fortunately as believers we confess our sins and are forgiven via the grace of God.   Repentance isn't a license to sin by any means, but it is nice to know that when we falter and succumb to our old sinful ways that we can turn it all over to Christ because of his sacrifice on the cross.  

Not taking solace in anything. No evidence, no need to believe.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Again, respectfully, I have no worries about whether or not he's real.   And I'm completely lucid to boot.

I have no doubts you believe he's real but alas it doesn't make it so. I'm just saying it's hard historically to prove he was and everything in the new testament is taken second hand NONE of it was written by Jesus himself and it was written a long time after he died , it's really asking a lot for people to believe