What do religious people think they are doing when they pray?

[Deicide]

Without using the quote function to pinpoint 1-2 sentences that man of steel has made in the past page or so. I want to disagree with him on one point.

Christians do not believe in christ on empirical evidence. By faith, not by works, are ye saved. Paul talked about it comes down to faith. Evidence of things not seen. Christians believe in jesus christ that he came and died for the sins of the world and whosoever believes in him (whosoever has faith in jesus christ) can be saved. People may experience God in their lives at difficult moments or at happy times and may feel God working their lives, but this is not what lead them to believe to begin with. That was faith. Nobody looks towards science studies before believing on christ to determine whether or not they should make that decision. They know in their heart that christ exists and lives in them, not by reality, although reality (incidences in life) can boost faith, it still comes down to faith. Trusting in God as one's savior does not involve research studies or lab experiments

Yes things happen in christians lives where they can point to God and say "for we know that all things work together for good for them that love God", but faith in God that he sent his son to die on the cross was what lead them to be saved.

EDIT: some people say that the old catholic priests (or philosophers, whatever you want to call them) like aquinas or anslem all fell into the trap of the scientists by being enticed to provide a rational scientific argument for the existence of God and to put a human understanding on a heavenly subject which proves to be very hard to do, opening loopholes which skeptics can easily point out and say that this is why religion should not be believed

In every sphere of human life, we use rationality to live and make decisions. From the smallest ones to the largest. Faith is clearly a compartmentalisation of the brain of otherwise rational people.

[Deicide]

I have no doubts you believe he's real but alas it doesn't make it so. I'm just saying it's hard historically to prove he was and everything in the new testament is taken second hand NONE of it was written by Jesus himself and it was written a long time after he died , it's really asking a lot for people to believe

QFMFT!

[Man of Steel]

Not taking solace in anything. No evidence, no need to believe.

And you've been given the free will to choose that path.  I encourage you to read some of Lee Strobel's books concerning the evidence for Christ.  It's not super-heady reading or anything.

[Man of Steel]

I have no doubts you believe he's real but alas it doesn't make it so. I'm just saying it's hard historically to prove he was and everything in the new testament is taken second hand NONE of it was written by Jesus himself and it was written a long time after he died , it's really asking a lot for people to believe

I encourage you to read Lee Strobel's "Case For Christ"....it addresses everything here and then some.  It's all about the historocity of the bible, the span of time it was written after Christ died and rose, the writers of the New Testament, etc....

[Deicide]

And you've been given the free will to choose that path.  I encourage you to read some of Lee Strobel's books concerning the evidence for Christ.  It's not super-heady reading or anything.

Strobel is an idiot and a conman; only a 3rd grader would read his 'evidence' and consider it convincing...or a Christian.

[YngiweRhoads]

And you've been given the free will to choose that path.  I encourage you to read some of Lee Strobel's books concerning the evidence for Christ.  It's not super-heady reading or anything.

He's an apologist looking to make data fit predetermined answers.

Cite some legitimate sources please.

[Deicide]

I encourage you to read Lee Strobel's "Case For Christ"....it addresses everything here and then some.  It's all about the historocity of the bible, the span of time it was written after Christ died and rose, the writers of the New Testament, etc....

If you want to read real scholarship, read the following:

The Case Against The Case For Christ: A New Testament Scholar Refutes the Reverend Lee Strobel American Atheist Press. ISBN 1-57884-005-8 (15 Feb 2010)

The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man: How Reliable is the Gospel Tradition? Prometheus Books. ISBN 1-59102-121-9. (20 Dec 2003)

The Jesus Puzzle: Did Christianity Begin with a Mythical Christ?. Ottawa: Age of Reason Publications. 2005 [1999]. ISBN 0-9689259-1-X.

[NarcissisticDeity]

I encourage you to read Lee Strobel's "Case For Christ"....it addresses everything here and then some.  It's all about the historocity of the bible, the span of time it was written after Christ died and rose, the writers of the New Testament, etc....

Like I said consider your sources   

he can't be objective on the topic

[NarcissisticDeity]

And you've been given the free will to choose that path.  I encourage you to read some of Lee Strobel's books concerning the evidence for Christ.  It's not super-heady reading or anything.

We're given ' free will ' but by exercising it we are punished to burn for all eternity , that's not free will.

[Man of Steel]

Strobel is an idiot and a conman; only a 3rd grader would read his 'evidence' and consider it convincing...or a Christian.

"Hume and Locke are absolute frauds.  Their logic is reaching at best and completely unsupported gibberish.  Even Hawking's work although brilliant in concept is really nothing more than metaphysical, self-serving nonsense.  Those that take their words at face value are most likely high school graduates at best."

I can do this too, but fortunately it doesn't change anything I've mentioned about salvation in Christ.   I'm not here to insult you so please know this.

[Man of Steel]

Like I said consider your sources   

he can't be objective on the topic

Well, the book title is "Case For Christ" so the books cited by other members could be considered the "Case Against Christ". 

[Deicide]

"Hume and Locke are absolute frauds.  Their logic is reaching at best and completely unsupported gibberish.  Even Hawking's work although brilliant in concept is really nothing more than metaphysical, self-serving nonsense.  Those that take their words at face value are most likely high school graduates at best."

I can do this too, but fortunately it doesn't change anything I've mentioned about salvation in Christ.   I'm not here to insult you so please know this.

Hopefully you are joking comparing giants such as Locke and Hume to that idiot Stroebel...oh well, nothing to be done here I guess.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Well, the book title is "Case For Christ" so the books cited by other members could be considered the "Case Against Christ". 

As I said he can't be objective , I'm just talking from a historical standpoint it's very hard to prove Jesus was actually alive never mind the son of God ( although he never quite said that , his claim was he was " the son of man " . ) 

And at the least we can all agree that the new testament wasn't even written by Jesus and all of the information was second hand written years after his death

[Man of Steel]

If you want to read real scholarship, read the following:

The Case Against The Case For Christ: A New Testament Scholar Refutes the Reverend Lee Strobel American Atheist Press. ISBN 1-57884-005-8 (15 Feb 2010)

The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man: How Reliable is the Gospel Tradition? Prometheus Books. ISBN 1-59102-121-9. (20 Dec 2003)

The Jesus Puzzle: Did Christianity Begin with a Mythical Christ?. Ottawa: Age of Reason Publications. 2005 [1999]. ISBN 0-9689259-1-X.

For each book you list I could quickly Google an opposing view....that can go on almost endlessly LOL!!  You call my source a crock and I call your source a hack.....not my intention.  I find no value in that kind of posting so I don't engage. 

My purpose was to express how to come to have a personal relationship with Christ.  I'm not a scholar, a theologian, a literary expert, a scientist, etc, etc....ad nauseum.   I'm a regular man that beliefs in Christ, but that doesn't hate or dislike my nonbelieving counterparts.....I just pray they can come to understand the love of Christ that I've experienced.

That's it brother!

[Tapeworm]

"Hume and Locke are absolute frauds.  Their logic is reaching at best and completely unsupported gibberish.  Even Hawking's work although brilliant in concept is really nothing more than metaphysical, self-serving nonsense.  Those that take their words at face value are most likely high school graduates at best."

I can do this too, but fortunately it doesn't change anything I've mentioned about salvation in Christ.   I'm not here to insult you so please know this.

I'M a high school graduate, at best.

[Man of Steel]

Hopefully you are joking comparing giants such as Locke and Hume to that idiot Stroebel...oh well, nothing to be done here I guess.

It was just an quick, top of the head, generalized statement with no merit or support.   It's the type of reply I read day in and out.  I was just giving an example of how quickly that type of reply can be generated.  

"I read this book by John Brown called "Jesus Sucks".  Changed my life....here's a link."

"John  Brown is a sham and a idiot....his work is unsupported nonsense."

This is the type of reply trading I can't stand, but the whole community of readers can instantly read and be influenced by.


Again, my purpose is to just share what I belief.

[YngiweRhoads]

It was just an quick, top of the head, generalized statement with no merit or support.   It's the type of reply I read day in and out.  I was just giving an example of how quickly that type of reply can be generated.  

"I read this book by John Brown called "Jesus Sucks".  Changed my life....here's a link."

"John  Brown is a sham and a idiot....his work is unsupported nonsense."

This is the type of reply trading I can't stand, but the whole community of readers can instantly read and be influenced by.

None of that is needed.

Citing reference material from both legitimate historical and archaeological institutes with peer reviewed, verified and corroborated evidence would give reason to accept Jesus, the man, existed.

[Man of Steel]

None of that is needed.

Citing reference material from both legitimate historical and archaeological institutes with peer reviewed, verified and corroborated evidence would give reason to accept Jesus, the man, existed.

Best I can tell you is that Lee Strobel's books are collections of interviews with experts in a different fields of study.  He doesn't often interject his opinions.  He just presents the interviews with the experts.  Everything is documented and all references cited.  

Again, I encourage you to speak to the source.  Pray with an open heart to God and ask him about salvation.


 

[YngiweRhoads]

Best I can tell you is that Lee Strobel's books are collections of interviews with experts in a different fields of study.  He doesn't often interject his opinions.  He just presents the interviews with the experts.  Everything is documented and all references cited.  


 

Not a legitimate source of info, sorry. Hes an apologist with an agenda which is probably one of the worst sources of legitimate information you could find.

[Man of Steel]

Not a legitimate source of info, sorry.

As I posted above:

For each book you list I could quickly Google an opposing view....that can go on almost endlessly LOL!!  You call my source a crock and I call your source a hack.....not my intention.  I find no value in that kind of posting so I don't engage. 

My purpose was to express how to come to have a personal relationship with Christ.  I'm not a scholar, a theologian, a literary expert, a scientist, etc, etc....ad nauseum.   I'm a regular man that beliefs in Christ, but that doesn't hate or dislike my nonbelieving counterparts.....I just pray they can come to understand the love of Christ that I've experienced.

Again, I suggest speaking to the source directly.  Pray to God with an open heart and come to him with concerns of salvation.  MOS can't give you salvation, just express what I belief and maybe point you in the the direction of a church, book I've read, online article I've read, program I've watched on tv, etc....

That's it brother!

[Man of Steel]

As I said he can't be objective , I'm just talking from a historical standpoint it's very hard to prove Jesus was actually alive never mind the son of God ( although he never quite said that , his claim was he was " the son of man " . ) 

And at the least we can all agree that the new testament wasn't even written by Jesus and all of the information was second hand written years after his death

You should google some biblical references on the "son of man".  I know exactly where you're going with this arguement, but can't articulate in fashion you'd appreciate. 

[YngiweRhoads]

For each book you list I could quickly Google an opposing view.

The historicity of Jesus either is, or isn't, accepted by the modern scientific community. Until then is unsubstantiated conjecture.

[Man of Steel]

Not a legitimate source of info, sorry. Hes an apologist with an agenda which is probably one of the worst sources of legitimate information you could find.

Not a problem....you're free to feel that way.

[Man of Steel]

The historicity of Jesus either is, or isn't, accepted by the modern scientific community. Until then is unsubstantiated conjecture.

Not a problem....you're free to feel that way.

[Mr. Magoo]

Let's provide a different twist to this

for those that don't believe in God: What would it take in order for you to believe in God? The historical proof that a man named jesus existed? The end of times (or would u think u were crazy if u saw horses come out of the sky)?

for those that believe in God: What would it take in order for you not to believe in God? Historical proof that jesus didn't exist? Or would you just think the records were wrong,

If there are no arguments that will change your point of view. Then why argue and debate?