Why liberals don't like the tax cut deal -- in graphs

[Soul Crusher]

I'm not "blaming" I'm simply saying they didn't help.

This isn't an Obama camp thing... This is a fact of history.

Taxes were cut and spending went up... The government went from surplus to shortfall.

Is anything I'm saying incorrect?

The two have nothing to do with each other as revenue to the govt also went up.    Its just that spending increases greaty outpaced the increased revenue, which we all agree is a complete disaster fiscally. 

[tu_holmes]

Of course.    But to me, its the spending side that is the main issue, not the tax side.   We simply can't afford out present obligations and even if we raied taxes, if won solve anything because our spending is so enormous.    

I do not think you're wrong... I agree that raising taxes doesn't change but like 1% of out of our total deficit.

I also don't think that it's the right thing to do... I'm simply saying that neither the raising or lowering of taxes changes a damn thing. So people around here sit and argue just to argue.

[tonymctones]

I'm not "blaming" I'm simply saying they didn't help.

This isn't an Obama camp thing... This is a fact of history.

Taxes were cut and spending went up... The government went from surplus to shortfall.

Is anything I'm saying incorrect?

So your judge is by their effect on the deficit?

Again tax cuts do not add to the deficit?

again by your logic we should tax 100% of govt spending instead of simply cutting back on spending

[tu_holmes]

So your judge is by their effect on the deficit?

Again tax cuts do not add to the deficit?

again by your logic we should tax 100% of govt spending instead of simply cutting back on spending

Bullshit... way to reach. At what point can you not understand that all of my posts are about curbing spending.

My initial post in this thread was about how you guys are arguing amongst yourselves about 1% of the budget and yet you are forgetting the other 99%.

It's all about spending. You just read what you want to read into things man.

[tonymctones]

Bullshit... way to reach. At what point can you not understand that all of my posts are about curbing spending.

My initial post in this thread was about how you guys are arguing amongst yourselves about 1% of the budget and yet you are forgetting the other 99%.

It's all about spending. You just read what you want to read into things man.

whoa whoa whoa broham...you said that tax cuts dont do anything, I asked if its b/c you judge them based on what happens to the deficit...

[tu_holmes]

whoa whoa whoa broham...you said that tax cuts dont do anything, I asked if its b/c you judge them based on what happens to the deficit...

No I didn't... I said that in the past 10 years since the tax cuts were enacted, that nothing good has happened to the economy. I'm not saying that they don't do "anything". Everyone would like to keep their money... so sure, that's what they do... they let people keep their money, but they haven't done anything to the economy.

[MB]

The federal government collected $2.1 trillion in taxes for 2009.  And how much did they spend?  $3.5 trillion.  Why in the world would we give them more money?  They're like a kid in a candy shop, it's not even real money to them.  I can't fathom why we haven't instituted a balanced budget amendment to the constitution. 

[Straw Man]

I'm stating it as a matter of fact.
Again - the issue is spending - not taxes.     

great - then it should be easy to prove

let's see it

[Soul Crusher]

The govt took in more revenue after the bush tax cuts.  However, the spending increased in great porportion. 

How hard is that for you to grasp?

[tonymctones]

No I didn't... I said that in the past 10 years since the tax cuts were enacted, that nothing good has happened to the economy. I'm not saying that they don't do "anything". Everyone would like to keep their money... so sure, that's what they do... they let people keep their money, but they haven't done anything to the economy.

ok so what are you judging to come up with that assesment?

[tonymctones]

Thought this was interesting, I was looking for the tax income revenue before and after the tax cuts currently in place and found this....

Ten Myths About the Bush Tax Cuts-and the Facts

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2007/01/ten-myths-about-the-bush-tax-cuts

Myth #1: Tax revenues remain low.
Fact: Tax revenues are above the historical average, even after the tax cuts.

Myth #2: The Bush tax cuts substantially reduced 2006 revenues and expanded the budget deficit.
Fact: Nearly all of the 2006 budget deficit resulted from additional spending above the baseline.

Myth #3: Supply-side economics assumes that all tax cuts immediately pay for themselves.
Fact: It assumes replenishment of some but not necessarily all lost revenues.

Myth #4: Capital gains tax cuts do not pay for themselves.
Fact: Capital gains tax revenues doubled following the 2003 tax cut.

Myth #5: The Bush tax cuts are to blame for the projected long-term budget deficits.
Fact: Projections show that entitlement costs will dwarf the projected large revenue increases.

Myth #6: Raising tax rates is the best way to raise revenue.
Fact: Tax revenues correlate with economic growth, not tax rates.

Myth #7: Reversing the upper-income tax cuts would raise substantial revenues.
Fact: The low-income tax cuts reduced revenues the most.

Myth #8: Tax cuts help the economy by "putting money in people's pockets."
Fact: Pro-growth tax cuts support incentives for productive behavior.

Myth #9: The Bush tax cuts have not helped the economy.
Fact: The economy responded strongly to the 2003 tax cuts.

Myth #10: The Bush tax cuts were tilted toward the rich.
Fact: The rich are now shouldering even more of the income tax burden.

[tonymctones]

it goes into detail for each myth so click on the link....

[tonymctones]

Thought this was interesting, I was looking for the tax income revenue before and after the tax cuts currently in place and found this....

Ten Myths About the Bush Tax Cuts-and the Facts

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2007/01/ten-myths-about-the-bush-tax-cuts

Myth #1: Tax revenues remain low.
Fact: Tax revenues are above the historical average, even after the tax cuts.

Myth #2: The Bush tax cuts substantially reduced 2006 revenues and expanded the budget deficit.
Fact: Nearly all of the 2006 budget deficit resulted from additional spending above the baseline.

Myth #3: Supply-side economics assumes that all tax cuts immediately pay for themselves.
Fact: It assumes replenishment of some but not necessarily all lost revenues.

Myth #4: Capital gains tax cuts do not pay for themselves.
Fact: Capital gains tax revenues doubled following the 2003 tax cut.

Myth #5: The Bush tax cuts are to blame for the projected long-term budget deficits.
Fact: Projections show that entitlement costs will dwarf the projected large revenue increases.

Myth #6: Raising tax rates is the best way to raise revenue.
Fact: Tax revenues correlate with economic growth, not tax rates.

Myth #7: Reversing the upper-income tax cuts would raise substantial revenues.
Fact: The low-income tax cuts reduced revenues the most.

Myth #8: Tax cuts help the economy by "putting money in people's pockets."
Fact: Pro-growth tax cuts support incentives for productive behavior.

Myth #9: The Bush tax cuts have not helped the economy.
Fact: The economy responded strongly to the 2003 tax cuts.

Myth #10: The Bush tax cuts were tilted toward the rich.
Fact: The rich are now shouldering even more of the income tax burden.

bump for a response from tu, straw, 240 et al...

[George Whorewell]

Thought this was interesting, I was looking for the tax income revenue before and after the tax cuts currently in place and found this....

Ten Myths About the Bush Tax Cuts-and the Facts

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2007/01/ten-myths-about-the-bush-tax-cuts

Myth #1: Tax revenues remain low.
Fact: Tax revenues are above the historical average, even after the tax cuts.

Myth #2: The Bush tax cuts substantially reduced 2006 revenues and expanded the budget deficit.
Fact: Nearly all of the 2006 budget deficit resulted from additional spending above the baseline.

Myth #3: Supply-side economics assumes that all tax cuts immediately pay for themselves.
Fact: It assumes replenishment of some but not necessarily all lost revenues.

Myth #4: Capital gains tax cuts do not pay for themselves.
Fact: Capital gains tax revenues doubled following the 2003 tax cut.

Myth #5: The Bush tax cuts are to blame for the projected long-term budget deficits.
Fact: Projections show that entitlement costs will dwarf the projected large revenue increases.

Myth #6: Raising tax rates is the best way to raise revenue.
Fact: Tax revenues correlate with economic growth, not tax rates.

Myth #7: Reversing the upper-income tax cuts would raise substantial revenues.
Fact: The low-income tax cuts reduced revenues the most.

Myth #8: Tax cuts help the economy by "putting money in people's pockets."
Fact: Pro-growth tax cuts support incentives for productive behavior.

Myth #9: The Bush tax cuts have not helped the economy.
Fact: The economy responded strongly to the 2003 tax cuts.

Myth #10: The Bush tax cuts were tilted toward the rich.
Fact: The rich are now shouldering even more of the income tax burden.

Racist Post Reported.

[Straw Man]

Why didn't/couldn't the Repubs make the tax cuts permanent in the first place?

[Soul Crusher]

Why didn't/couldn't the Repubs make the tax cuts permanent in the first place?

hey did not have the votes and could only do it through reconcilliation or something like that. 

[Straw Man]

hey did not have the votes and could only do it through reconcilliation or something like that. 

correct and why exactly could they not make them permanent (hint - Byrd Rule)

[tonymctones]

Thought this was interesting, I was looking for the tax income revenue before and after the tax cuts currently in place and found this....

Ten Myths About the Bush Tax Cuts-and the Facts

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2007/01/ten-myths-about-the-bush-tax-cuts

Myth #1: Tax revenues remain low.
Fact: Tax revenues are above the historical average, even after the tax cuts.

Myth #2: The Bush tax cuts substantially reduced 2006 revenues and expanded the budget deficit.
Fact: Nearly all of the 2006 budget deficit resulted from additional spending above the baseline.

Myth #3: Supply-side economics assumes that all tax cuts immediately pay for themselves.
Fact: It assumes replenishment of some but not necessarily all lost revenues.

Myth #4: Capital gains tax cuts do not pay for themselves.
Fact: Capital gains tax revenues doubled following the 2003 tax cut.

Myth #5: The Bush tax cuts are to blame for the projected long-term budget deficits.
Fact: Projections show that entitlement costs will dwarf the projected large revenue increases.

Myth #6: Raising tax rates is the best way to raise revenue.
Fact: Tax revenues correlate with economic growth, not tax rates.

Myth #7: Reversing the upper-income tax cuts would raise substantial revenues.
Fact: The low-income tax cuts reduced revenues the most.

Myth #8: Tax cuts help the economy by "putting money in people's pockets."
Fact: Pro-growth tax cuts support incentives for productive behavior.

Myth #9: The Bush tax cuts have not helped the economy.
Fact: The economy responded strongly to the 2003 tax cuts.

Myth #10: The Bush tax cuts were tilted toward the rich.
Fact: The rich are now shouldering even more of the income tax burden.

would you like to respond to this straw???

[Straw Man]

would you like to respond to this straw???

tell me why the Repubs couldn't make the tax cuts permanent and then I'll address it

[tonymctones]

tell me why the Repubs couldn't make the tax cuts permanent and then I'll address it

b/c we had ppl like you in congress who didnt understand the top 10 myths and facts about the tax cuts? 

[Straw Man]

b/c we had ppl like you in congress who didnt understand the top 10 myths and facts about the tax cuts? 

wrong

try again

[tonymctones]

wrong

try again

LOL b/c it was passed with reconciliation the byrd rule was b/c ppl wrongly thought it would add to the deficit but if you refer to MYTH 1: you can see that even after the tax cuts, tax revenues were higher than the historical average...

things that make you go, hmmmmmmmmm

so does this mean obamas health care bill is going to sunset in 10 years?  

[tonymctones]

tell me why the Repubs couldn't make the tax cuts permanent and then I'll address it

hahhahaha and if you refer to MYTH 2: you can see that "Nearly all of the 2006 budget deficit resulted from additional spending above the baseline."

LOL guess that kinda bursts your bubble doesnt it little buddy?

[Straw Man]

LOL b/c it was passed with reconciliation the byrd rule was b/c ppl wrongly thought it would add to the deficit but if you refer to MYTH 1: you can see that even after the tax cuts, tax revenues were higher than historical average...

things that make you go, hmmmmmmmmm

so does this mean obamas health care bill is going to sunset in 10 years? 

increase in tax revenue (if it's true - you show no proof) doesn't mean the tax cuts were paid for or paid for themself

If the overall base of taxpayers grew and if more people made more money (do you remember the dot.com era) then overall tax revenue could easily be larger......but that's al it means.   There is no other conclusion you can draw.   Of course if you're a neocon think tank you can pretend it means something more ....but it doesn't.

I guess the deficicit and debt didn't increase during from 2001 to 2010 either (especially odd since Bush Admin didn't bother to included either war in his budgets and as such were not part of the official "deficit"

to your last point - the health care legislation wasn't passed with reconciliation

[Straw Man]

hahhahaha and if you refer to MYTH 2: you can see that "Nearly all of the 2006 budget deficit resulted from additional spending above the baseline."

LOL guess that kinda bursts your bubble doesnt it little buddy?

again - other than just claiming it do you have some actual proof.

Overlay the former tax structure on the 2006 AGI and tell me if you think we would have a larger or smaller deficit